Join John Adams, world renowned Intl Matchmaker, Monday nights 8:30 EST for Live Webcasts!
And check out Five Reasons why you should attend a FREE AFA Seminar! See locations and dates here.
View Active Topics View Your Posts Latest 100 Topics FAQ Topics Mobile Friendly Theme
Discuss and talk about any general topic.
I strongly believe all (good) relationships are based primarily on physical attraction and that only in the case of impoverished women can materialistic attraction lead to a good experience (good is how you define it. I define it as that she at least seems to be convincingly into you). I think a sometimes undervalued aspect of the reason why (some) people have improved success when dating abroad, is the aspects of taste. Taste is not just about "exoticness" or "novelty factor" helping you, either. One overlooked aspect of this, is that it's a two-way street. I'll give a few examples to illustrate. In this thread I'd like to explore taste and hear experiences from travellers who have observed populations with different tastes.
I live in the capital of a primarily Nordic country. Sometimes I see Italian (at the very least general Mediterranean/Latino-esque types) tourists and/or locals having huge succes with the native Dutch population. However, the girls I see them with typically are not the girls I (or most people I know) would find attractive. So, the benefit compounds because they go after the girls that are not being chased, as much, by locals. Either way, in their own country (Italy, Spain) the guys I am referring to would typically be somewhat above average (and decent height at least 5'11". You really need that here), but nothing special. Here they clean up and get much attention. The good looking ones can achieve near rockstar status if they have game and hang out in the right circles.
A different situation that is less clear-cut is, for example, when a first-world Asian (Japanese, S-Korean, some China) comes here. Some of them (seem to) have a blonde/white girl fetish, however most blondes are not into Asians. However, is the Asian guy better off here anyway? You can look at this two ways: if he wants to date women in general, no, because he went down from, say, a 6 at home to 2-3 here, he will have very little success (note this is an entirely realistic drop. I'd say a top 25th percentile Asian in South Korea would easily end up being bottom 25th percentile here). However, in his home country there are no blondes that will date him, so if that is his goal, he is still better of because he might, for lack of a better term, "get lucky".
An extreme example would probably be people with red hair. Generally, these guys are very outside the realm of conventional taste in Anglo and Nordic countries. However, in much of Latin America and Asia, I don't think a huge (if any) distinction would be made between a person with red hair and a blonde, which is generally a good/attractive thing there because they prefer light skin over tan anyway (unless it is a flaming red Irish ginger type, obviously. Those people stick out like a carrot no matter what god bless their hearts, but maybe at least in Asia they'd get the exotic card anyway).
Of course, for many here, poverty and wealth have a great deal to do with success as well, but I want to isolate that from the actual physical attraction which is not, in any way universal.
Anyway, what I am saying is, unless you have a strong preference for your local phenotype and they also prefer you (or are at least neutral) it is very easy to find places that are better for you. However you must watch out, because I am sure that most guys who come to the Netherlands would drop between 1-3 points due to the height as well as people being generally quite good looking here.
Also I want to mention the perceived causal link between exoticness/rarity and attraction here. I strongly disagree with the idea that "being rare/exotic makes you attractive by itself". You can easily disprove such a theory by putting a normal Asian guy in any (non-racist) part of the western world where Asians are rare, and you will see him have not much success despite his exoticness. Even if he is 1st world Asian going to poor white country, his success will be lower compared to for example a 1st world white guy going there, despite the white not being exotic at all. If you look at these things independent of each other, you will see the Asian have success in the poor country, but not as much as the white guy. Thus he is being selected against for being Asian, despite exoticism). Otoh, his succes will be higher than a white guy in countries like Phillipines and Thailand because they actually select against caucasians (not that you are going to notice much because even if the average Thai and Phillipina selects against caucasians, there are still few enough caucasians and so many of them that you will still get attention from the ones that do prefer you).
In other words, yes being exotic is not really a virtue in and of itself.
For insight into my situation, I am a completely typical Dutch person at exactly 6' (which means I live in the only country in the world where I am significantly below average in height), green eyes, white skin (pasty as shit in the winter) and brown-ish blonde hair. I don't like the local dominant phenotype(s) (i.e. anglo and nordic). I have a strong preference for mixed (Nordic + at least 1/4 whatever else) and Asian (but not the dominant Phillipines phenotype, god those people look putrid (no offense)). Almost none of which live in this country. And in the case of Asians, they keep to themselves a lot (none of that American Asians dating whites all the time stuff). Anyway, the situation is thus that I am not really attracted to most white people and the ones that I do like are pretty enough for the competition to be way too intense.
TL;DR you have a value and assign value to others in the dating market and that value depends only on supply and demand which is not the same in all places. Exoticism (being rare) is no guarantee of being in high demand (because supply and demand could both be low). A huge aspect of your value in the dating market is not only your "objective" attractiveness (symmetrical face and what not) but also phenotype (haircolor, skin color and overal facial appearance regardless of its attractiveness). A smart traveller will go where competition is low, demand for them is high (regardless of money) and the supply of their preference is also high.
INB4 you're a homo because you're thinking about male attractiveness too much: I can gaurantee you that you will never have (what I consider) good sex with a woman that doesn't think you are physically appealing.
Male looks is everything and sadly you are either born with it or not.
also I wouldn't call most dutch people goodlooking,outside of amsterdam
Frisians are goodlooking,but alot of people in other provinces look funny as f**k.
I think Zeelanders are one of the ugliest people in the world.
most dutch women aren't hot.although the teenage girls are hot.
I have a blog on male looks if you're interested
Human attraction and mating practice is just another reason I embraced misanthropy.
Humans are so simple and stupid, it makes me wanna vomit.
We simply follow 1 million year old memes, time and time again, without even knowing it. Even in the "modern" age. We haven't advanced in intelligence one bit since the days of the caveman.
Having sex with women is easier than falling off a bike. Having a women "love" you, is a different matter. Women can't love a man. They can "love" something about you(your money), but females don't have any capacity to appreciate the masculine.
Wow, dit forum zit vol Nederlanders
Back to English now: I agree with the OP: looks matter a lot and you can improve your relative looks by going to a different country. I would give myself a 5-6 in my own country (Belgium) but in South American countries like Peru, with a large mestizo population I think I am about a 7 (based on the rating of the women who found me attractive). Why? I am taller than average there (girls would complement me on how tall I am and I'm only 5'9). I also have blue eyes, which is highly valued there.
Anglos and Nords yeah...
Good example. At 5'9" that would be on the short side here, but normal-to-tall in South America. When I went to the US people considered me tall at 6ft and I was like wtf I'm not tall, what are you talking about? (Yes, I really feel short here at 6ft I'm not making shit up. Come to Amsterdam and if you are below 6'1 you will feel short too if you avoid the tourists).
For people of nordic and celtic ancestry (light eyes and/or hair, certain kind of face) there is basically no place in the world where their market value is lower than where they live. Even in the US, it is already higher than in Scandinavia/Central Europe (due to height + scarcity + local preferences). Going to the US as a Dutch person is like growing 5-8cm compared to everybody else.
It works just as well for women btw. I'm sure your run off the mill blonde would do much better in the US and even (or maybe, especially) a chubby one would be a GODDESS in terms of market value in any African country (also in the rare wealthier areas).
5'9 is tall, not average in Peru. Average height for men is like 5'5 there. I must say it felt great walking the streets there and looking down on everyone.
Here we go again.....
Guys, you are disappointed because your own anglo/nordic women don't want you.
There is absolutely NOTHING keeping you from finding a quality woman.
And looks are not everything.
It all depends on what country you're in.
In latin America and Asian, good white male looks are golden.
In europe, australia and Japan, a good looking black or latino man will rule.
My biggest is question for you is why are still trying to score with women who don't want you?
Why are you not going to countries where the women will like you such as Asia and latin America?
Status trumps looks anyday, which is why I am still wondering why don't you focus on stacking your money instead?
"Allow me to show you the Power Cosmic!" - Silver Surfer
wow ok hah. I always overestimate how tall ppl are in the rest of the world.
5'5" is significantly shorter than the average woman here. So strange.
Come on dude, men use women for their looks, it's a trade off.
There are women who will like you for you but if you're trying to find a feminized western woman who likes you for who you are, you are on a losing quest, unless you find that special one which is rare.
Once again, there are women who will love you and treat you right but you need to travel and leave your current location if it's not working out for you.
And guys, stop saying things like: All women want your money. All women around the world are the same. All women are gold diggers. No women really like men. All women are bisexual. Women aren't attract to the bodies of men.
By listening to all the comments on this website, there is nothing keeping any of you from finding a quality woman in the world.
Remember, you attract what you dwell on the most.
"Allow me to show you the Power Cosmic!" - Silver Surfer
Much of what you wrote is incorrect.
For example, a huge percentage of Dutch people are actually brunets (dark hair). This is the result of Spanish and Jewish admixture. So stop writing all that crap about "Nordic" blood -- Dutch people are surprisingly dark.
You're already the third or fourth person on this forum who prefaces his posts with the statement "I'm white, 6'", and then, ironically, goes on to talk about Asia. You do realize that by writing about exotic parts of the world, you're diluting your whiteness and European features? Your opening paragraph won't be shared by your progeny if you keep up your exotic fetish, LOL.
Last edited by Someone on February 2nd, 2014, 8:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I was just bored and making some casual observations about things I was considering. It's really more of an academic thing for me, although I do intend to leave here. The problem is not so much that nobody wants me, but that I know that I can do so much better, with less stress and less effort, than I could here.
Also, in Europe, a good looking black man will be considered much less attractive than an equal-percentile white one, on average. He has still some edge, because he is rare and he can target the niche, within which he can easily get laid. Obviously white people in Europe are the mainstream and thus have no niche where they could excell.
Anyway, I see countless of decent looking caucasian guys on the streets every day walking around with their girls and the girl is almost never anything special and looks much worse than they do. And no, I'm not a homo. I just like to observe people (introvert trait. It's fun though). So that's how the deck is stacked. Honestly, it is much better to be an ugly Asian man living in Asia than it is to be a decent white guy living in Europe. Those ugly Asian guys get cute girlfriends all the time (i.e. girls I consider significantly more attractive than what I see my white peers hanging out with).
lolwut? I know a lot of people have dark hair and eyes, but a lot of others do not. Behind Scandinavia the Netherlands probably has the highest concentration of nordic traits. When I refer to Europeans and Dutch people in this thread, I mean the ones that look obviously Dutch, not the mixed mediterranean or otherwise not Dutch looking ones. That's just because it takes too much time to spell out every single time all the traits that I observe.
There also aren't a lot of Jews here anymore since about 70 years ago.
I don't give a shit about "diluting my whiteness", what kind of BS is that? Who said I want "progeny"? f**k that shit lol. I'm going to be dead anyway in 100 years. I prefer good looks over any other trait, regardless of race. The only thing a family is good for, is an investment against loneliness at an old age. And that investment is good for its worth regardless of the race of the woman. Let's not kid ourselves here.
I mentioned about every part of the world so far in this thread, except of Australia and Antartica.
So I don't know what exactly you are trying to say here.
Of course the native men in any country do the best but when you talk about FOREIGN MEN, European women have a fetish for black men and even latino men, it's a known fact.
An average foreign black man is going to do better in Europe than an average foreign white man, no contest because there is nothing special about the foreign white man.
Asian men are going to do the best in Asia because they are NATIVE.
"Allow me to show you the Power Cosmic!" - Silver Surfer