Posted: February 3rd, 2014, 6:59 am
The trouble is no one wants to marry the ethnics. One night stands are indeed plentiful but serious relationships are a challenge for them.
You throw up a lot of interesting points, some of which are key considerations to choosing a country or region to expat too.Anthropolonerd wrote:I strongly believe all (good) relationships are based primarily on physical attraction and that only in the case of impoverished women can materialistic attraction lead to a good experience (good is how you define it. I define it as that she at least seems to be convincingly into you). I think a sometimes undervalued aspect of the reason why (some) people have improved success when dating abroad, is the aspects of taste. Taste is not just about "exoticness" or "novelty factor" helping you, either. One overlooked aspect of this, is that it's a two-way street. I'll give a few examples to illustrate. In this thread I'd like to explore taste and hear experiences from travellers who have observed populations with different tastes.
I live in the capital of a primarily Nordic country. Sometimes I see Italian (at the very least general Mediterranean/Latino-esque types) tourists and/or locals having huge succes with the native Dutch population. However, the girls I see them with typically are not the girls I (or most people I know) would find attractive. So, the benefit compounds because they go after the girls that are not being chased, as much, by locals. Either way, in their own country (Italy, Spain) the guys I am referring to would typically be somewhat above average (and decent height at least 5'11". You really need that here), but nothing special. Here they clean up and get much attention. The good looking ones can achieve near rockstar status if they have game and hang out in the right circles.
A different situation that is less clear-cut is, for example, when a first-world Asian (Japanese, S-Korean, some China) comes here. Some of them (seem to) have a blonde/white girl fetish, however most blondes are not into Asians. However, is the Asian guy better off here anyway? You can look at this two ways: if he wants to date women in general, no, because he went down from, say, a 6 at home to 2-3 here, he will have very little success (note this is an entirely realistic drop. I'd say a top 25th percentile Asian in South Korea would easily end up being bottom 25th percentile here). However, in his home country there are no blondes that will date him, so if that is his goal, he is still better of because he might, for lack of a better term, "get lucky".
An extreme example would probably be people with red hair. Generally, these guys are very outside the realm of conventional taste in Anglo and Nordic countries. However, in much of Latin America and Asia, I don't think a huge (if any) distinction would be made between a person with red hair and a blonde, which is generally a good/attractive thing there because they prefer light skin over tan anyway (unless it is a flaming red Irish ginger type, obviously. Those people stick out like a carrot no matter what god bless their hearts, but maybe at least in Asia they'd get the exotic card anyway).
Of course, for many here, poverty and wealth have a great deal to do with success as well, but I want to isolate that from the actual physical attraction which is not, in any way universal.
Anyway, what I am saying is, unless you have a strong preference for your local phenotype and they also prefer you (or are at least neutral) it is very easy to find places that are better for you. However you must watch out, because I am sure that most guys who come to the Netherlands would drop between 1-3 points due to the height as well as people being generally quite good looking here.
Also I want to mention the perceived causal link between exoticness/rarity and attraction here. I strongly disagree with the idea that "being rare/exotic makes you attractive by itself". You can easily disprove such a theory by putting a normal Asian guy in any (non-racist) part of the western world where Asians are rare, and you will see him have not much success despite his exoticness. Even if he is 1st world Asian going to poor white country, his success will be lower compared to for example a 1st world white guy going there, despite the white not being exotic at all. If you look at these things independent of each other, you will see the Asian have success in the poor country, but not as much as the white guy. Thus he is being selected against for being Asian, despite exoticism). Otoh, his succes will be higher than a white guy in countries like Phillipines and Thailand because they actually select against caucasians (not that you are going to notice much because even if the average Thai and Phillipina selects against caucasians, there are still few enough caucasians and so many of them that you will still get attention from the ones that do prefer you).
In other words, yes being exotic is not really a virtue in and of itself.
For insight into my situation, I am a completely typical Dutch person at exactly 6' (which means I live in the only country in the world where I am significantly below average in height), green eyes, white skin (pasty as shit in the winter) and brown-ish blonde hair. I don't like the local dominant phenotype(s) (i.e. anglo and nordic). I have a strong preference for mixed (Nordic + at least 1/4 whatever else) and Asian (but not the dominant Phillipines phenotype, god those people look putrid (no offense)). Almost none of which live in this country. And in the case of Asians, they keep to themselves a lot (none of that American Asians dating whites all the time stuff). Anyway, the situation is thus that I am not really attracted to most white people and the ones that I do like are pretty enough for the competition to be way too intense.
TL;DR you have a value and assign value to others in the dating market and that value depends only on supply and demand which is not the same in all places. Exoticism (being rare) is no guarantee of being in high demand (because supply and demand could both be low). A huge aspect of your value in the dating market is not only your "objective" attractiveness (symmetrical face and what not) but also phenotype (haircolor, skin color and overal facial appearance regardless of its attractiveness). A smart traveller will go where competition is low, demand for them is high (regardless of money) and the supply of their preference is also high.
INB4 you're a homo because you're thinking about male attractiveness too much: I can gaurantee you that you will never have (what I consider) good sex with a woman that doesn't think you are physically appealing.
In my experience, the simple act of moving can make you generally perceived as a significantly more or less attractive man than you were in your own country. Also, being in an identifiable niche can make things easier even if you are not on the radar screen of the majority.
For example, you mention Asia as a region where Nordic whites have a negative handicap vis-a-vis local guys of similar height/appearance. Well it's a huge region so in some parts at least, that may be the case. But even in those parts, such white guys still might find it easier to date cus niche girls tend to be easier to identify just like black biased white girls in Europe tend to make themselves know to black guys there.
Now also consider, height is almost universally attractive to women. If you are from a taller Nordic country, you will get an automatic height boost on the bell curve when you locate to about anywhere in Asia, especially SE Asia. That can help, especially with taller local women.
Also, if you are from a developed western country, you get an automatic perceived wealth/education boost when you go to a poorer Asian country or region. All else equal, these factors will make you more desirable in general.
I think there's a strong case to suggest some races and ethnicities have men who tend to have more sexual draw than others. Think not only height but testosterone levels, facial characteristics, voice depth, and other genetic tendencies. Same goes for women. But in some cultures, raw physical appeal is less important than in others too. Here in Asia, it's not uncommon to see big differences in relative physical attractiveness between the guy and girl he's with. The good news is that the better looking one more often than not is the girl, opposite of what you often see in USA.
Anyway, I think best HA strategy is to take what you got and figure out what part(s) of world are best (ie easiest) to chase your own dreams.
in the land of the Vikings.