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I'm starting to understand the whole MGTOW thing

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I'm starting to understand the whole MGTOW thing

Postby rudder » Sat Feb 08, 2014 3:30 am

This past week abroad I met another woman that I hit it off really well with. I made a big point about how I expect people to be on time when hanging out with me. The first "date" she had a work meeting come up, but she was very communicative and told me about it rather than just flaking. So she came one hour past our agreed upon meeting time. When we finally met up she was very apologetic and sincere, and it sounded like a really honest reason that she had to postpone our date.

Yesterday she had her friend pass me a handwritten note that said how much she enjoyed meeting me and basically just expressing gratitude for going out with her.

Today we were going to make some plans and she sounded pretty busy in the morning, so she sent me a text message saying that she would come stop by my hotel at 8 tonight. Well she never came, nor did I hear anything from her.

Prior to this point, I really liked her. She even took me to meet her dad who I got along with very well. I think the girl has very nice upbringing, and is such a happy-go-lucky person. It really is a pleasure to be with her, and she is the sort of woman that I would consider marrying.

Why is it pretty much a guarantee that women (or people in general) will let you down?

At this point I'm thinking of just ignoring her if I hear from her again. Then maybe if she's really persistent I'll give her the "one more chance" lecture.

But I'm really depressed right now, because she seemed like a great woman. I now feel like it's just one let down after another when I meet women. I don't have much motivation anymore to meet them or even to make male friends... even in a foreign country. There's too much working against me, kids, jealous ex boyfriend, obesity, the ubiquitous, boring, generic female personality, flakiness, you name it. Finding a good woman even in a foreign country is like trying to win the lottery.
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Postby manly5000 » Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:38 pm

Stay away from professional "career women" in any country. That's all there is to it.

Man = go out and bring home the bacon.

Woman = stay home and cook the bacon.

That's the only way things will ever work out the way they should.
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Re: I'm starting to Understand the whole MGTOW thing

Postby chibolo » Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:40 pm

rudder wrote:This past week abroad I met another woman that I hit it off really well with. I made a big point about how I expect people to be on time when hanging out with me. The first "date" she had a work meeting come up, but she was very communicative and told me about it rather than just flaking. So she came one hour past our agreed upon meeting time. When we finally met up she was very apologetic and sincere, and it sounded like a really honest reason that she had to postpone our date.

Yesterday she had her friend pass me a handwritten note that said how much she enjoyed meeting me and basically just expressing gratitude for going out with her.

Today we were going to make some plans and she sounded pretty busy in the morning, so she sent me a text message saying that she would come stop by my hotel at 8 tonight. Well she never came, nor did I hear anything from her.

Prior to this point, I really liked her. She even took me to meet her dad who I got along with very well. I think the girl has very nice upbringing, and is such a happy-go-lucky person. It really is a pleasure to be with her, and she is the sort of woman that I would consider marrying.

Why is it pretty much a guarantee that women (or people in general) will let you down?

At this point I'm thinking of just ignoring her if I hear from her again. Then maybe if she's really persistent I'll give her the "one more chance" lecture.

But I'm really depressed right now, because she seemed like a great woman. I now feel like it's just one let down after another when I meet women. I don't have much motivation anymore to meet them or even to make male friends... even in a foreign country. There's too much working against me, kids, jealous ex boyfriend, obesity, the ubiquitous, boring, generic female personality, flakiness, you name it. Finding a good woman even in a foreign country is like trying to win the lottery.


Welcome to Peru LOL! While this is pretty disrespectful of the woman (and I wouldn't tolerate it either) this is EXTREMELY common in Peruvian culture!
If a Peruvian tells you he will meet you at 5 you can expect him to show up at 7 or even not at all. It is a cultural thing and not seen as a big deal by them. The government even tried to encourage punctuality at one point because it is such a huge problem in Peru...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/spanish/misc/n ... 409191.stm

it is likely that this woman doesn't see this as a big deal, however I can understand how you feel. I would be pissed as well...
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Re: I'm starting to Understand the whole MGTOW thing

Postby rudder » Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:55 am

chibolo wrote:
rudder wrote:This past week abroad I met another woman that I hit it off really well with. I made a big point about how I expect people to be on time when hanging out with me. The first "date" she had a work meeting come up, but she was very communicative and told me about it rather than just flaking. So she came one hour past our agreed upon meeting time. When we finally met up she was very apologetic and sincere, and it sounded like a really honest reason that she had to postpone our date.

Yesterday she had her friend pass me a handwritten note that said how much she enjoyed meeting me and basically just expressing gratitude for going out with her.

Today we were going to make some plans and she sounded pretty busy in the morning, so she sent me a text message saying that she would come stop by my hotel at 8 tonight. Well she never came, nor did I hear anything from her.

Prior to this point, I really liked her. She even took me to meet her dad who I got along with very well. I think the girl has very nice upbringing, and is such a happy-go-lucky person. It really is a pleasure to be with her, and she is the sort of woman that I would consider marrying.

Why is it pretty much a guarantee that women (or people in general) will let you down?

At this point I'm thinking of just ignoring her if I hear from her again. Then maybe if she's really persistent I'll give her the "one more chance" lecture.

But I'm really depressed right now, because she seemed like a great woman. I now feel like it's just one let down after another when I meet women. I don't have much motivation anymore to meet them or even to make male friends... even in a foreign country. There's too much working against me, kids, jealous ex boyfriend, obesity, the ubiquitous, boring, generic female personality, flakiness, you name it. Finding a good woman even in a foreign country is like trying to win the lottery.


Welcome to Peru LOL! While this is pretty disrespectful of the woman (and I wouldn't tolerate it either) this is EXTREMELY common in Peruvian culture!
If a Peruvian tells you he will meet you at 5 you can expect him to show up at 7 or even not at all. It is a cultural thing and not seen as a big deal by them. The government even tried to encourage punctuality at one point because it is such a huge problem in Peru...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/spanish/misc/n ... 409191.stm

it is likely that this woman doesn't see this as a big deal, however I can understand how you feel. I would be pissed as well...


Yeah, this country sucks big time in that regard. It is mostly a regional thing though. I didn't have this problem with the friends I made when I was in Lima.

Well I decided it would be too passive-aggressive to just wait for her to contact me again, so I decided to call her tonight and assertively tell her how I felt about the whole ordeal. I asked if that's how she treats her friends, and told her that I take that as a huge sign of disrespect, and I hate when people do that to me. I told her how sad I felt because of it, but I also told her I really like her and don't want to have to end our friendship, so she better not do it again.

She apologized and agreed that it was very rude, but something tells me this issue is going to come up again.

Any advice for dealing with this extremely rude cultural phenomenon? In one week here in this city I've had three separate people (not just women) flake on me. It's a real drag and a complete waste of my time. I heard that Roosh's Bang Colombia book discusses this issue.
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Re: I'm starting to Understand the whole MGTOW thing

Postby rudder » Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:59 am

chibolo wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/spanish/misc/n ... 409191.stm

it is likely that this woman doesn't see this as a big deal, however I can understand how you feel. I would be pissed as well...


Yeah she didn't see it as a big deal. She was kind of surprised when I called her and brought it up. I mean doesn't she get pissed when people do that to her?

A good excerpt from your article:
El presidente Alan García, conocido por su puntualidad, considera que la actitud relajada de sus compatriotas daña la productividad nacional y aleja las inversiones extranjeras.

Yes, I would strongly hesitate to ever do business with a Peruvian.
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Postby chibolo » Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:52 pm

Yeah, it sucks but it is a big part of Peruvian culture unfortunately... My Peruvian ex was like this as well. She was almost ALWAYS late.

I am sure it does really have an impact on the Peruvian economy as well and no, I wouldn't want to do business in Peru either...

My advice is just try to see it like a Peruvian would and don't make a big deal out of it, but don't let them go too far either.
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Postby rudder » Sat Feb 15, 2014 9:43 pm

OK being late is one thing. I've had plenty of friends in the USA that were always late. However, what really disturbs me about being here is that they will agree upon a plan (often the woman will even suggest a time and place), and then they just won't show up, and you won't hear from them at all.

The last girl I described ended up flaking on me again the very next day, so I terminated things with her. She even told me on the phone that she was going to stop by at a certain time. She never came, and she never let me know about her change of plans.

I moved into a shared house recently. There is a cute university girl living in one of the rooms from a different city. We hit it off pretty well. And have a lot in common including the same professional interests. It's nice to find a Peruvian woman finally that I can nerd out with. She expressed interest in going dancing at a discoteca with me for Valentine's day, so I decided it would be prudent to go buy her some flowers and properly ask her out. She was ecstatic, and we actually shared her bed the night prior to Valentine's day. We kissed and embraced each other all night. We told each other that we love one another. Prior to that, we were both teaching each other how to dance by watching youtube videos. Neither of us know how to dance, so we wanted to have a little preparation before going out on Valentine's day.

Well, Valentine's day rolls around and she had a dinner with her classmates, but the plan was to come back and meet me by 11, because I was invited by a group of friends to hang out with them at the discoteca. Valentine's day is not just about romance in Peru. They call it "Dia de las amistades y enamorados" Well she didn't come back in time, and I tried calling and texting her, but her phone was turned off. So I just went and hung out with my amigos at the disco.

It made me extremely sad that she did that to me, so I wrote her a long, handwritten letter today. It's basically up to her if she wants to continue things with me.

I know this probably isn't the case (what is the case then?), but it seems like they're just trying to mess with me. They toy around with my heart by being all romantic, and then the next day they just completely burn me! WTF!
They're worse than most men in that regard. There's all this hype about how latina women want to have serious relationships and aren't interested in casual flings, but then they pull stunts like that. They complain about how men are players, but the reason men are like that is because the women are flakes, so you basically have to get what you can from whoever you can whenever the opportunity arises. I mean why would a guy attempt to commit to a woman that doesn't even show up to dates?

What's funny about this recent girl though, is that we live in the same house and we're both signed up for meals from the landlady. So, she can't avoid me. She sees me at almost every meal.

I said everything I wanted to say in my handwritten letter, and I said it as eloquently and assertively as I intended. I saw her this afternoon in the house, said hello and handed it to her.

On a more positive note, my new guy friend is very interested in helping me initiate my business proposal. He is very enthusiastic about going with me to arrange appointments and buy the things we need. He's very punctual (for a Peruvian) and expects the same from me. Today I told him he's one of the only punctual Peruvians I've met here.
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Postby chibolo » Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:01 pm

rudder wrote:OK being late is one thing. I've had plenty of friends in the USA that were always late. However, what really disturbs me about being here is that they will agree upon a plan (often the woman will even suggest a time and place), and then they just won't show up, and you won't hear from them at all.

The last girl I described ended up flaking on me again the very next day, so I terminated things with her. She even told me on the phone that she was going to stop by at a certain time. She never came, and she never let me know about her change of plans.

I moved into a shared house recently. There is a cute university girl living in one of the rooms from a different city. We hit it off pretty well. And have a lot in common including the same professional interests. It's nice to find a Peruvian woman finally that I can nerd out with. She expressed interest in going dancing at a discoteca with me for Valentine's day, so I decided it would be prudent to go buy her some flowers and properly ask her out. She was ecstatic, and we actually shared her bed the night prior to Valentine's day. We kissed and embraced each other all night. We told each other that we love one another. Prior to that, we were both teaching each other how to dance by watching youtube videos. Neither of us know how to dance, so we wanted to have a little preparation before going out on Valentine's day.

Well, Valentine's day rolls around and she had a dinner with her classmates, but the plan was to come back and meet me by 11, because I was invited by a group of friends to hang out with them at the discoteca. Valentine's day is not just about romance in Peru. They call it "Dia de las amistades y enamorados" Well she didn't come back in time, and I tried calling and texting her, but her phone was turned off. So I just went and hung out with my amigos at the disco.

It made me extremely sad that she did that to me, so I wrote her a long, handwritten letter today. It's basically up to her if she wants to continue things with me.

I know this probably isn't the case (what is the case then?), but it seems like they're just trying to mess with me. They toy around with my heart by being all romantic, and then the next day they just completely burn me! WTF!
They're worse than most men in that regard. There's all this hype about how latina women want to have serious relationships and aren't interested in casual flings, but then they pull stunts like that. They complain about how men are players, but the reason men are like that is because the women are flakes, so you basically have to get what you can from whoever you can whenever the opportunity arises. I mean why would a guy attempt to commit to a woman that doesn't even show up to dates?

What's funny about this recent girl though, is that we live in the same house and we're both signed up for meals from the landlady. So, she can't avoid me. She sees me at almost every meal.

I said everything I wanted to say in my handwritten letter, and I said it as eloquently and assertively as I intended. I saw her this afternoon in the house, said hello and handed it to her.

On a more positive note, my new guy friend is very interested in helping me initiate my business proposal. He is very enthusiastic about going with me to arrange appointments and buy the things we need. He's very punctual (for a Peruvian) and expects the same from me. Today I told him he's one of the only punctual Peruvians I've met here.


Wow man that sucks... It sounds like you're having bad luck with the women you meet. Again, this type of behavior is really common in Peru. Both men and women do this. They tell you they will come, but never show up. Then again, maybe these women just aren't that into you who knows.

Where are you now? Still in Tarapoto?
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Postby rudder » Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:19 pm

Yes, here for the time being. The ATM swallowed my card the other day, so I'm trapped until the new one shows up.

No, man not at all. This girl had me in her bed and she was telling me she loves me and kissing me and how happy she is to know me. I really vibe with these women that I've been meeting. The trouble is that they're flakes. On a deep level I really do not understand how people can be like that. It's really hard for me to be here because of that.

There also does seem to be a lot of girls that just want to try me out just to "be with a gringo." I'm really cautious about that now. It's my main concern. My good friend from Lima says that's probably what happens to me.

The flaking of my housemate last night marks the fifth time that I've been flaked on in this city, and I haven't even been here two weeks. And yes, it's not just women that do this. Men do it too. Even businesses will do it. Like today for example I was in an internet cafe, and then they told me they had to close for two hours for siesta, and they would open again at 3pm. Well sure enough I went back there at 3:08 and it was still closed. I had a little chuckle to myself, "No wonder these people are poor, they can't even show up to their own businesses on time."

Hah an older woman just walked by with a shirt that says, "no boyfriend, no problem"
There was another good one in Lima I saw. Some girl had a shirt that just said the F word in BIG letters. I wonder if they even know what their shirts mean.
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Postby chibolo » Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:37 pm

rudder wrote:Yes, here for the time being. The ATM swallowed my card the other day, so I'm trapped until the new one shows up.

No, man not at all. This girl had me in her bed and she was telling me she loves me and kissing me and how happy she is to know me. I really vibe with these women that I've been meeting. The trouble is that they're flakes. On a deep level I really do not understand how people can be like that. It's really hard for me to be here because of that.

There also does seem to be a lot of girls that just want to try me out just to "be with a gringo." I'm really cautious about that now. It's my main concern. My good friend from Lima says that's probably what happens to me.

The flaking of my housemate last night marks the fifth time that I've been flaked on in this city, and I haven't even been here two weeks. And yes, it's not just women that do this. Men do it too. Even businesses will do it. Like today for example I was in an internet cafe, and then they told me they had to close for two hours for siesta, and they would open again at 3pm. Well sure enough I went back there at 3:08 and it was still closed. I had a little chuckle to myself, "No wonder these people are poor, they can't even show up to their own businesses on time."

Hah an older woman just walked by with a shirt that says, "no boyfriend, no problem"
There was another good one in Lima I saw. Some girl had a shirt that just said the F word in BIG letters. I wonder if they even know what their shirts mean.


Yeah, maybe that's it. They probably just want to see what it's like to be with a gringo and aren't that serious.

I met a middle class Peruvian guy when I lived in Chimbote who said the same thing: part of the reason why Peru is poor is because everyone is always late.

Haha those shirts. Of course they don't know what they mean :D
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Postby rudder » Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:40 pm

Chibolo, earlier you said not to make a big deal about the people flaking. But what exactly do you accomplish by not expressing your sentiments to them? I think on some level these people are totally clueless about basic respect, and will obviously continue to flake on you if you don't tell them how upsetting that is, and also tell them you're not going to associate with them if they continue their extremely rude behavior.

Also you said your ex was very late all the time. Did you ever tell her how you felt about that? Maybe you didn't care. Is that ultimately why you dumped her? Anyway, if you're willing to talk about it, I'd really appreciate hearing about your ex. I.e. How did you meet? How long you dated? Why you broke up? etc.
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Postby chibolo » Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:43 pm

rudder wrote:Chibolo, earlier you said not to make a big deal about the people flaking. But what exactly do you accomplish by not expressing your sentiments to them? I think on some level these people are totally clueless about basic respect, and will obviously continue to flake on you if you don't tell them how upsetting that is, and also tell them you're not going to associate with them if they continue their extremely rude behavior.

Also you said your ex was very late all the time. Did you ever tell her how you felt about that? Maybe you didn't care. Is that ultimately why you dumped her? Anyway, if you're willing to talk about it, I'd really appreciate hearing about your ex. I.e. How did you meet? How long you dated? Why you broke up? etc.


Well, I guess I mean that they don't see it as extremely rude. They see everyone do it so they think it's acceptable. I agree with you that at some point you will have to stand up for yourself and say that you don't tolerate that type of behavior. Maybe you could tolerate it a few times, but if it keeps going on just tell them honestly what you think.

Yeah my ex was late a lot. It used to annoy me, but it wasn't that big of a problem. She wasn't as extreme as some other Peruvians. She never stood me up like those women you met did. I met her online at www.latinamericancupid.com . We dated for 6 years. She was a great girl, but things just didn't work out between us. I don't really want to go into why here.
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Postby djfourmoney » Sun Feb 16, 2014 11:33 pm

manly5000 wrote:Stay away from professional "career women" in any country. That's all there is to it.

Man = go out and bring home the bacon.

Woman = stay home and cook the bacon.

That's the only way things will ever work out the way they should.


No, no, no, way too simplistic.

You are the man and from Day One, you lay down the law. However you don't beat a woman up with your deal breakers on the first date. First dates and Second dates should never feel like an interview. All too often men you feel like you do this and you wonder why you can't get to the 2nd or 3rd dates and wanna blame feminism?

Women should have the option to work or even be career minded, who cares. What should NOT happen is men acting like throwbacks and demanding a return of the 1950's. It won't happen and whatever seems to forget the other issues in America that went on at the same time. IE nobody will accept a return to the 1950's and its fetish of White men largely, stop it.

If women want to be treated as equals, then do so. What your doing is treating them like property, that already failed once.
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Postby djfourmoney » Sun Feb 16, 2014 11:53 pm

Without watching Rudder in action, I can only assume.

He said NERDING OUT, okay stop right there. Do you understand that being a nerd is the polar opposite of being a macho man? Do you remember that your in Latin America?

Sounds to me like you're doing it wrong. If you can't muster being "macho" as they say fake it. Women flake on you because they only find you mildly interesting, it has little to do with being fashionably late as apart of the culture.

Does it play a factor? Sure, but a few minutes late to an hour, not ever showing up, that's a hint dude!

By accepting their bullsh*t they know your a complete pushover.

You need to make it known to women that you are not waiting by the phone, only women do that, it is not a good look.

You should be dating multiple women. What I find too often it doesn't matter where in the world men go, they behave as if they are back in America or Western Europe. How you date back home, not does work overseas!

You must build sexual tension, without that, the women will not be interested in you, full stop. They want a nice man, not a pushover/nice guy/beta male.

Nice men treat women like women, not by intimidation but by being a human being, big difference.

Okay, so what should you do? You should be meeting dozens of women in real-time and online. If you're serious about a girlfriend, then you shouldn't spend too much time alone. I would say if you're not in-town to work but to play, 2-3 dates per day is not unreasonable at all, it should be standard.

The biggest mistake men make in other countries is not meeting enough women and spending too much time with one or two women, like nursing a drink in your hand.
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Postby manly5000 » Mon Feb 17, 2014 12:03 am

djfourmoney wrote: No, no, no, way too simplistic.

You are the man and from Day One, you lay down the law. However you don't beat a woman up with your deal breakers on the first date. First dates and Second dates should never feel like an interview. All too often men you feel like you do this and you wonder why you can't get to the 2nd or 3rd dates and wanna blame feminism?

Women should have the option to work or even be career minded, who cares. What should NOT happen is men acting like throwbacks and demanding a return of the 1950's. It won't happen and whatever seems to forget the other issues in America that went on at the same time. IE nobody will accept a return to the 1950's and its fetish of White men largely, stop it.

If women want to be treated as equals, then do so. What your doing is treating them like property, that already failed once.


Already been there once, brother.

With my ex-wife, the more she progressed and put emphasis on her career, the further she fell from the sweet, amazing girl who only cared about being with me and having a family. In the end she became a full-blooded "strong, independent woman" who literally didn't believe in marriage or family any more and felt that financial gain and security was the most important thing in the world. This was a girl who was originally from Mexico and had extremely strong family values in the beginning. When we first got together and for the first few years of marriage she was AMAZING. Then i got to watch her disintegrate right in front of my eyes.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the girl I end up with working or spending her free time doing things that make her happy. I have no desire to keep a woman "barefoot and pregnant" or be overtly controlling towards her. But I want nothing to do with career-minded women. Maybe it was the combination of career plus being here in America that destroyed who she was, maybe a career-minded girl outside of the west will turn out differently, but I don't want to find out the hard way or ever go through what I went through again.

I don't really care about "1950's America", but based on first hand experience I know what will and will not work for me in a lifelong relationship.

What I do strongly believe in is gender roles. Men are supposed to be men, and women are supposed to be women. A competitive, career-driven female by my definition cannot be a real woman because to me those are masculine traits which pit her against her man and takes her focus away from the Family. I have no interest whatsoever in this type of female.
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