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At what point did you go sour on American society?

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Postby ?????? » Thu Mar 13, 2014 5:33 am

For me it was a series of events slowly over time that made me become sour towards American society. I guess it started with how men were depicted in ads and tv shows. I also couldn't explain at the time all the negative ads and tv shows on television that depicted men as spineless wimps who couldn't wipe their butt without their wife's permission or they were depicted as idiots and how their wife was always right no matter what. It got worse when I I left my small town high school and moved to Des Moines. I had bad experiences with relationships in my teens with many of them just sleeping with other men, control issues, and host of other personal issues. The advice that my parents gave me did not add up either. I was told "Just be nice to them, be chivalrous, ect." when men who did the exact opposite were the most successful. But even after all of my negative experiences with US women, I still at the time somewhat believed I could find a good wife here who was loyal, trustworthy, and was a good mother with great family values in the mid 2004-2005 dating environment. The kind of wife that my Grandfather and brother had found at early ages in their lives. But that would change later when a series of bad events that unfolded in my friends and co-workers lives that would finally put any thought of a relationship/marriage in the US in question.


The final straw for me was hearing about or seeing firsthand the negative experiences of friends and co-workers in their relationships, marriages, and divorce. Some that were in a relationship were thrown out of their homes by the police after verbal arguments and had restraining orders on them, even though there was no evidence of bruises or injury on their girlfriend/wife. My former boss went through a nasty divorce and lost most of his property, wealth, and had serious stress related health problems. He said the judge painted him as the villain and the jerk, while she was depicted as this good mother who was a perfect angel and could do no wrong even though she was the one who cheated and slept around. I thought it was ridiculous that a woman could be rewarded for her infidelity and a man could be punished for remaining faithful. I never had anyone I knew get falsely accused of rape, but I did read about reports of that happening. It's crazy how a few these Anglosphere women can drag a man to court, have his reputation ruined, and be potentially imprisoned for a crime he did not commit. All because she regretted sleeping with him the night before or some other ulterior motive like revenge. It's crazy!! shttp://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-29563.html http://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-30987.html

The major turning point for me was when I started asking around and started looking up information on the internet on what was the root cause of these failed marriages. That lead me to sites about feminists, their sinister anti-male agenda, their role in the destruction of the family, and how the government enforces and rewards their bad behavior. At that moment I realized that marriage and family was no longer a reward for men. What is the point of starting a family if society was going to punish me for it? What incentive is there for Western women to keep a relationship when they can just get rewarded for leaving and infidelity? I waved goodbye to that family life and gave up on relationship/marriage for 8 years for that reason. I didn't like the idea, but it was better than having my life ruined by paying for no-fault divorce slavery. After a while my anger and resentment subsided. Then I just stopped caring about dating most US/Anglosphere women no matter how attractive they were because I knew that on the inside most of them were severely lacking the qualities (honesty, loyalty, family values, ect.) I was looking for in a wife. An unfortunate side effect was that I was ignorant in comparing foreign women to US/Anglosphere women and thought they and their countries divorce laws were the same. But after seeing videos and evidence from this website and others, I know that they are not "all the same". I started becoming hopeful that I can have that family life once I break free from the US and other Anglosphere countries.

I guess now, looking back, it wasn't such a bad thing that I had bad relationships that didn't work out. Now I am thankful for that those relationships turned out the way they did. I could have been like some of my friends and co workers who had to pay for no-fault divorce slavery while having no chance of leaving the US by getting their passport seized.
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Postby Winston » Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:01 am

gsjackson wrote:The Simpson murder trial. I followed it carefully, from the perspective of a criminal defense lawyer who knew that police routinely plant evidence. It was an obvious not-guilty verdict if you actually watched the trial, which the prosecution knew, so they started pitching their case to the media. The media swallowed it whole, and consequently so did all of white America.

Black man flies into a fit of rage and murders white woman was a story line Americans could go for. Dirty cops setting up an innocent man to cover their butts because they bungled the most watched criminal investigation in history -- doesn't fly with the American people, because we are wonderful.

It was scary to see public opinion shaped so effortlessly.

Around the same time I started reading books about the inadequacy of America's public space, such as The Great Good Place and The Geography of Nowhere. Eventually found my way to a pretty full-blown anti-Americanism.


Are you saying you think OJ was innocent? Why? There was too much evidence against him. It can't all be planted. Why would the police do that? He was not a threat to them.

Also, why was OJ running away during the Bronco chase if he was not guilty?

Are you black?
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Postby gsjackson » Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:49 pm

Winston wrote:
gsjackson wrote:The Simpson murder trial. I followed it carefully, from the perspective of a criminal defense lawyer who knew that police routinely plant evidence. It was an obvious not-guilty verdict if you actually watched the trial, which the prosecution knew, so they started pitching their case to the media. The media swallowed it whole, and consequently so did all of white America.

Black man flies into a fit of rage and murders white woman was a story line Americans could go for. Dirty cops setting up an innocent man to cover their butts because they bungled the most watched criminal investigation in history -- doesn't fly with the American people, because we are wonderful.

It was scary to see public opinion shaped so effortlessly.

Around the same time I started reading books about the inadequacy of America's public space, such as The Great Good Place and The Geography of Nowhere. Eventually found my way to a pretty full-blown anti-Americanism.


Are you saying you think OJ was innocent? Why? There was too much evidence against him. It can't all be planted. Why would the police do that? He was not a threat to them.

Also, why was OJ running away during the Bronco chase if he was not guilty?

Are you black?


Yes, he didn't do it. Despite the prosecution's salesmanship to the media of "a mountain of evidence," the case against Simpson boiled down to four pieces of forensic evidence, three of which were obviously planted, as even the jury in the civil trial, which found Simpson liable, acknowledged. That which wasn't -- blood at the murder scene -- had been mishandled, degraded, and sent off for evaluation by the same police dept.

I explained in the above post police motivation for planting evidence -- they jumped the gun and made a bad arrest in one of the most scrutinized crimes of the 20th century. Rather than admit the mistake, they tried to cover their butts. Most of the "evidence" brought into trial was "found" after Simpson was arrested. And in the case of Fuhrman, you have clearly established racial bias, including a special distaste for black men being married to white women.

Simpson was "running away," at 20 mph with a police escort, after visiting his ex-wife's grave??? He had a gun to his head the whole time; he was suicidal. Yes, that's consistent with guilt, but it's also consistent with being medicated and not sleeping for two weeks, while contemplating going to jail for at least a year and spending all the money he'd ever made on lawyers. All the other demeanor evidence brought into trial supported innocence.

I am not black.
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Postby ChampionKaji » Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:59 pm

Winston wrote:
gsjackson wrote:The Simpson murder trial. I followed it carefully, from the perspective of a criminal defense lawyer who knew that police routinely plant evidence. It was an obvious not-guilty verdict if you actually watched the trial, which the prosecution knew, so they started pitching their case to the media. The media swallowed it whole, and consequently so did all of white America.

Black man flies into a fit of rage and murders white woman was a story line Americans could go for. Dirty cops setting up an innocent man to cover their butts because they bungled the most watched criminal investigation in history -- doesn't fly with the American people, because we are wonderful.

It was scary to see public opinion shaped so effortlessly.

Around the same time I started reading books about the inadequacy of America's public space, such as The Great Good Place and The Geography of Nowhere. Eventually found my way to a pretty full-blown anti-Americanism.


Are you saying you think OJ was innocent? Why? There was too much evidence against him. It can't all be planted. Why would the police do that? He was not a threat to them.

Also, why was OJ running away during the Bronco chase if he was not guilty?

Are you black?



Many Black celebrities learn that they can only go so far. A Black man that can be too successful is a threat to white supremacy. We often see White dudes get away with things that Black guys would get killed or at least chastised for, despite all of this talk of affirmative action and what not (see sleeping with a new woman each night in Taiwan; a Black guy wouldn't even be able to say "hello" without being labeled a pervert by the locals and the same white guys that bang new girls every night and get jobs without credentials or experience). Since this is "Happier Abroad", I think that it is best to look at the way things are globally or in our target countries, rather than just in America, a place that we want to leave.
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Postby Mr Natural » Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:18 pm

Moretorque wrote:It has been a spiral downward ... since the JFK assassination and the throttle has been completely wide open since 9/11.

Agreed.

gsjackson wrote:the case against Simpson boiled down to four pieces of forensic evidence, three of which were obviously planted, as even the jury in the civil trial, which found Simpson liable, acknowledged. That which wasn't -- blood at the murder scene -- had been mishandled, degraded, and sent off for evaluation by the same police dept.


There was other evidence that couldn't get past the dream team of lawyers - such as the neighbor who saw him speeding back to his house at the exact timeline, but she had been paid by the tabloids for the story. And mishandled or even planted evidence doesn't mean he isn't guilty. He sure did come up with some great suspects in his lifelong quest to "find the real killer". NOT.
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Postby gsjackson » Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:30 pm

Mr Natural wrote:
Moretorque wrote:It has been a spiral downward ... since the JFK assassination and the throttle has been completely wide open since 9/11.

Agreed.

gsjackson wrote:the case against Simpson boiled down to four pieces of forensic evidence, three of which were obviously planted, as even the jury in the civil trial, which found Simpson liable, acknowledged. That which wasn't -- blood at the murder scene -- had been mishandled, degraded, and sent off for evaluation by the same police dept.


There was other evidence that couldn't get past the dream team of lawyers - such as the neighbor who saw him speeding back to his house at the exact timeline, but she had been paid by the tabloids for the story. And mishandled or even planted evidence doesn't mean he isn't guilty. He sure did come up with some great suspects in his lifelong quest to "find the real killer". NOT.


Oh, there was a discredited eyewitness who would have changed everything. Didn't know that. My bad. I was just going on the evidence that actually came into court, not the million and one pieces of "evidence" cooked up by the tabloids.

Simpson's "quest to find the real killer" was a media production that had nothing to do with the guy's real life, which featured relatively limited financial resources after spending a fortune on lawyers. I don't think he ever doubted that it was either a drug connection gone bad, or his son Jason. The case against the latter was made pretty compellingly in a book published a couple of years ago.
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Re: At what point did you go sour on American society?

Postby tre » Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:11 pm

Temprano26 wrote:Obviously, most of us are pretty bitter towards American society but nobody woke up bitter and cynical. It happened over a long period of time.

When was your breaking point?



It started for me during the 2008 election. I saw how people voted for Presidential candidates like they would support "their" team in a sporting event. The emotion and celebration when Obama won was absolutely ridiculous. I couldn't see voting for anyone based on the color of skin, but only on policy and record. To be fair, candidate Obama said some great things (none of which he followed through with), so I can understand the appeal. Still, I was disgusted by the attitude of the general population in regard to Presidential elections.

2012 election REALLY did me in. I was a very active Ron Paul supporter as I had become Libertarian (from Republican) between 2008 and 2012 as I studied politics, economy, etc.. I saw the blatant corruption in the Primary election cycle and gave up all hope. Being a good, honest man, willing to do what needs to be done to IMPROVE things for THE PEOPLE absolutely disqualifies them to be President of the USA....the elites will not let it happen. As I know that the USA is in steady decline (in SO many ways), I see no reason to be optimistic. I'd also had the opportunity to travel abroad between 2008 and 2012 and I was much happier there than I am here. I think a person has to be willingly ignorant to be happy in America these days....
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Postby Cornfed » Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:16 pm

gsjackson wrote:
Mr Natural wrote:
Moretorque wrote:It has been a spiral downward ... since the JFK assassination and the throttle has been completely wide open since 9/11.

Agreed.

gsjackson wrote:the case against Simpson boiled down to four pieces of forensic evidence, three of which were obviously planted, as even the jury in the civil trial, which found Simpson liable, acknowledged. That which wasn't -- blood at the murder scene -- had been mishandled, degraded, and sent off for evaluation by the same police dept.


There was other evidence that couldn't get past the dream team of lawyers - such as the neighbor who saw him speeding back to his house at the exact timeline, but she had been paid by the tabloids for the story. And mishandled or even planted evidence doesn't mean he isn't guilty. He sure did come up with some great suspects in his lifelong quest to "find the real killer". NOT.


Oh, there was a discredited eyewitness who would have changed everything. Didn't know that. My bad. I was just going on the evidence that actually came into court, not the million and one pieces of "evidence" cooked up by the tabloids.

Simpson's "quest to find the real killer" was a media production that had nothing to do with the guy's real life, which featured relatively limited financial resources after spending a fortune on lawyers. I don't think he ever doubted that it was either a drug connection gone bad, or his son Jason. The case against the latter was made pretty compellingly in a book published a couple of years ago.

Apparently serial killer Glen Rogers, then working as a painter in LA, later confessed to the killings. He said that Simpson hired him to reclaim a pair of expensive earrings he had given Nicole and commented that he "might have to kill the bitch". The unexpected arrival of Ron Goldman proved problematic, causing Rogers to panic and kill them both outside the apartment. Later OJ came by to examine his handiwork, which explains his shoeprints, along with another set of mystery shoeprints at the scene. There seems to be evidence to support this. If this account is true then although OJ didn't do the killings, he would still be guilty of felony murder.
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Postby gsjackson » Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:18 pm

Cornfed wrote:[Apparently serial killer Glen Rogers, then working as a painter in LA, later confessed to the killings. He said that Simpson hired him to reclaim a pair of expensive earrings he had given Nicole and commented that he "might have to kill the bitch". The unexpected arrival of Ron Goldman proved problematic, causing Rogers to panic and kill them both outside the apartment. Later OJ came by to examine his handiwork, which explains his shoeprints, along with another set of mystery shoeprints at the scene. There seems to be evidence to support this. If this account is true then although OJ didn't do the killings, he would still be guilty of felony murder.


This scenario I found less persuasive than the BBC documentary's surmise of a drug murder, or the Jason Simpson as killer hypothesis -- psychotic, history of violence, off his meds, Nicole dissed him that night by going to another restaurant when she said she would come to his, loved to brandish his collection of cooking knives, etc. You've got jailbirds confessing to murders routinely that they didn't commit, but they want the attention.

As for Simpson's shoeprints at the scene -- you mean the Bruno Magli shoes? You may be certain that the LAPD turned up and down every store selling such shoes that Simpson conceivably could have visited, without finding any evidence of such a purchase, or any other evidence that Simpson owned the shoes. And isn't it kind of funny that he would change from the track shoes he was wearing an hour or so earlier at McDonald's to a pair of Italian dressy shoes to go commit a murder with extraordinary haste.
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Re: At what point did you go sour on American society?

Postby gsjackson » Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:24 pm

tre wrote: I think a person has to be willingly ignorant to be happy in America these days....


Maybe the truest words ever written in this forum. The rigidly enforced mindlessness is the thing that's hardest to take about the current U.S. If you want to live here, you need to check your brains and honesty at the door. Even much more so, IMO, than in other anglicized nations.
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Postby NorthAmericanguy » Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:59 pm

Hero wrote:When my father died, and almost nobody sent me any condolences.


Sorry to hear about that bro.. Yea, here in the states when you go through hard times that's the time when you really get to see who your real friends are. I know a guy right now who went though a bad divorce and lost everything. All the people who he knew and were friends with before his divorce are now gone except one, his childhood friend.
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Re: At what point did you go sour on American society?

Postby NorthAmericanguy » Fri Mar 14, 2014 12:13 am

tre wrote: I think a person has to be willingly ignorant to be happy in America these days....


Truer words have never been spoken.....
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Re: At what point did you go sour on American society?

Postby Winston » Fri Mar 14, 2014 5:31 am

NorthAmericanguy wrote:
tre wrote: I think a person has to be willingly ignorant to be happy in America these days....


Truer words have never been spoken.....


Mitchell made a similar point when he told me:

"It seems that the dumber you are, the easier it will be for you to get along with other people in America."

So true.

I have a question for you all.

When you went sour on America, did you assume everywhere else in the world was the same? Or did you not even think about it?

When I went sour on America, I went sour on life. I didn't know there was a solution abroad and I did not even think about it. It was only after looking at Russian bride catalogs and sites in 2001, that I started wondering if the solution might be abroad. But I originally planned to bring a bride back to the US. It was only after I went abroad that I realized that living abroad was better.
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Postby Temprano26 » Fri Mar 14, 2014 6:51 pm

Yes, Winston, I hadn't thought about going abroad when I was in that deep depression in 2009 before I went to Costa Rica. I had been through three summertimes of being perpetually lonely and people had this naïve assumption that I shouldn't be lonely because there are people around. I went out to nightclubs because that is what society expects me to do and I was always invisible because nobody even acknowledged that I existed.

When I went to Costa Rica, everyone was nicer all of a sudden. I got off that plane with that mindset that I have to be independent because the world doesn't give a shit about me but then I was lost in San Jose and a native at a restaurant gave me a ride back to the hostel for free.

It is sad that being treated like a friggin' human being should come as a culture shock. In Costa Rica I had more friends than I had in years and I realized I had forgotten what it was to be happy.
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Postby NorthAmericanguy » Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:32 am

I saw this over at the MGTOW forums and wanted to post this here as I think it adds to the discussion.





"An interesting and intellectually honest observation I had about the United States was that I never got to experience what I presumably loved about the US. This made me realize I was being a bit hypocritical, because the US I experienced was anything but the US I was fighting for.

The US I loved was what I saw in television and was taught to me (either through parents, school, media, etc.). It's history, winning WWII, the nuclear family, truth justice, gallant country westerns, dashing heroes like James Bond (I know, British), John Wayne, Robert Mitchum, beautiful women like Audrey Hepburn, Sophia Loren, Doris Day, not to mention its entertainment culture be it jazz, comedy, fashion, etc. But that version of the US died around 1965 and I was born ten years after. The US I got to live in was practically the opposite.

Destroyed families, divorce, Volker Recession poverty, hideous 70's music, fashion, and entertainment. Harlots and sluts for female actresses and vocalists, masculine women, effeminate men, spoiled rotten children, bullies and bitches, idiotic teachers, increasing taxes, recessions, bubbles, and prisons masquerading as schools. And let's not forget a selection of women destroyed by feminism, bigotry against white males, a progressive credentialism that ensured your youth was wasted, bogus careers with false promises, and never ever coming close to achieving the American dream a la the 1940's.

No, the two were actually quite different and it forced me to conclude something.

I hate the United States. I loathe it.

Not the idea of America. Not the ideals the country was originally founded on, but what it has become and consequently the US I get to live in.

It's basically a decadent, dependent pile of spoiled rotten human filth.

This isn't to say there aren't good people in the US or that there aren't good aspects of the US, but what me, you, and everybody else has to do is wake up and realize is that the country no longer represents the ideals and ideas it was founded upon. While we naturally surround ourselves with people we like, we have to realize that in doing so we bias our perception of the country. And therefore while you play poker with fellow conservatives, libertarians, and self supporting people and think most people are hard working folk like you, you don't realize that the majority of the population are parasitical, have no desire to be honest hard working Americans, are brought up/brainwashed to hate the country, hate people who work hard and are successful, and whose purpose in life is nothing more than to live off of you.

If you step back, clear your eyes, and take a fresh look, you can see this "real" United States for what it is and realize this is what you've had to live in and endure:

Lena Horne vs. Madonna vs. Miley Ray Cyrus
Duke Ellington vs. Kanye West
Jimmy Stewart vs. Matt Damon
Dwight Eisenhower vs. Barack Obama
Women with decorum and class vs. feminist brainwashed arrogant lippy brats
Strong, independent men vs. wimpy, simpering obedient, emasculated "men"
Powerful classy cars vs. EPA compliant boxes
Traditional architecture vs. minimalist crap
This vs. that
Don Rickles vs. Margaret Cho

I can go on, but how can anybody champion such crap? How can you advocate the US in its current state?

The truth is you can't. Not unless you're one of the losers that is populating the new America. And so I'm done. I never got to experience a Andy Griffith Mayberry lifestyle. I never got to come out of high school with a job waiting for me. I don't know what it's like to have a population that wants to work with me, instead of villainize and live off of me. And I've never walked downtown to see every man and women dressed their best as they presented themselves in public. It's not that I'm 'sick of it,' I already am. I'm just no longer fighting for something that isn't. The US is not ideal. The people that populate it have no desire to bring it back to its former greatness. And the hell if I'm fighting for something that I've never gotten to enjoy."



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