Join John Adams, world renowned Intl Matchmaker, Thurs nights 8:30 EST for Live Webcasts with FREE Prizes!
And check out Five Reasons why you should attend a FREE Live AFA Seminar! See locations and details.


Scam free! Check out Christian Filipina - Meet Asian women with Christian values! Members screened.
Exclusive book offer! 75% off! How to Meet, Date and Marry Your Filipina Wife



View Active Topics       Latest 100 Topics       View Your Posts       FAQ Topics       Switch to Mobile


"Is America Still Puritan After All These Years?"

Discuss and talk about any general topic.

Moderators: jamesbond, fschmidt

"Is America Still Puritan After All These Years?"

Postby jamesbond » Wed Apr 16, 2014 4:29 am

Here is a link to an interesting news article I found from the New York Times called, "Still Puritan After All These Years."

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/05/opini ... .html?_r=0


Here are some excerpts from the article:

A series of experiments conducted by researchers led by the psychologist Eric Luis Uhlmann and published last year in the Journal of Experimental Social Psychology. In one study, they investigated whether the work habits of today’s Americans reflected the so-called Protestant work ethic. Martin Luther and John Calvin argued that work was a calling from God. They also believed in predestination and viewed success as a sign of salvation. This led to belief in success as a path to salvation: hard work and good deeds would bring rewards, in life and after.

In the study, American and Canadian college students were asked to solve word puzzles involving anagrams. But first, some were subtly exposed to (or “primedâ€￾ with) salvation-related words like “heavenâ€￾ and “redeem,â€￾ while others were exposed to neutral words. The researchers found that the Americans — but not the Canadians — solved more anagrams with salvation on the mind. They worked harder.


Professor Uhlmann and his colleagues also conducted an experiment to see if Americans shared the prudishness of the Puritans. They found that American students judged promiscuous women more harshly than British students did.

Why the persistence of Puritanism in American life? “New England exercised a disproportionate influence on American ideals,â€￾ the historian John Coffey says, “thanks to a powerful intellectual tradition disseminated through its universities, its dynamic print culture and the writings of its famous clergy.â€￾ He also notes the power of Evangelicalism as a carrier of Puritan values and America’s resistance, compared with other largely Protestant nations, to secularization.
"When I think about the idea of getting involved with an American woman, I don't know if I should laugh .............. or vomit!"

"Trying to meet women in America is like trying to decipher Egyptian hieroglyphics."
User avatar
jamesbond
Elite Upper Class Poster
 
Posts: 7502
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 5:45 pm
Location: USA







Postby S_Parc » Wed Apr 16, 2014 4:44 am

Here's what I don't understand ... how about working hard and then ... screwing hard, afterwards?

I mean this whole Puritan work ethic is about working hard and then, living a life of *blue balls*. That makes no sense to me. If Calvin advocated determinism, then the avg Joe should just kill himself, and get it over with, since the almighty has already made his decision.

My version of Puritanism is that after a hard week of work, one should indulgence in a wild orgy, so that one's ready for the following Monday.

In other words, there's nothing wrong with *being all that one can be*, the basic Marine's credo, but then, b@inking hoes during one's rest time.
16 years ago, the Best Picture of 1999, "American Beauty", telegraphed the message of Happier Abroad to the world.

Beware of long term engagements with AWs, you may find yourself in a coffin.

AB discussion thread

BTW, despite settling down with an AW, myself, the warning is still in effect.
S_Parc
Veteran Poster
 
Posts: 2415
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2010 7:01 pm

Postby jamesbond » Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:56 pm

Check out this awesome article called, "Implicit Puritanism in America." It goes into great detail on how puritanism caused both our obsession with work (Americans work more hours than anyone else in the industrialized word) and our prudish ideas regarding sex, nudity and prostitution (America is one of the few countries were p4p is illegal).

Here are some excerpts from the article:

Numerous scholars have argued that since the inception of the first New England colonies, both Protestant work values (views on work and salvation articulated by John Calvin), and the pursuit of piety through sexual purity, have been at the forefront of American culture.

The roots of the America we currently know are firmly planted in the soil of some of the earliest and most influential Americans—a zealous group of Puritan-Protestants, who intended to
create an inherently spiritual nation, envisioning it as a land of purity and spiritually righteous people.


Here is the link for the article:

https://webfiles.uci.edu/dtannenb/www/d ... tanism.pdf
"When I think about the idea of getting involved with an American woman, I don't know if I should laugh .............. or vomit!"

"Trying to meet women in America is like trying to decipher Egyptian hieroglyphics."
User avatar
jamesbond
Elite Upper Class Poster
 
Posts: 7502
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 5:45 pm
Location: USA

Postby jamesbond » Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:32 pm

Holy smokes, check out this article, it gives statistics showing that in countries that are sexually repressive and prudish (like the USA) teen pregnancy, STD's and abortion are HIGHER than in countries that are more open towards sexuality.

Here are some excerpts from the article:

Someone who wants to make a strong argument in favor of more sexual liberalism needs only to compare the United States and Germany, a country that has comprehensive sex-ed programs and legal prostitution.

In 2010, Germany had a rate of 8 abortions per 1,000 compared to the United States ’ 19.6 abortions per 1,000 in 2008.


The Netherlands has a reputation for being one of the most pro-sex countries in the world, and it isn’t hard to understand why. From comprehensive sex education to legal prostitution (Amsterdam has one of Europe’s most famous red light districts) to nude and topless beaches.

In 2009, the Netherlands had a teen birth rate of 5.3 per 1,000 compared to 39.1 per 1,000 in the United States in 2009.

Sociologist Amy Schalet who is also professor at the University of Massachusetts has done extensive sex-related research on the United States and the Netherlands, often asserting that Americans would be much better off if they had the sexual openness of the Dutch.


Here is the link for the article:


http://www.alternet.org/story/154970/5_ ... page=0%2C0
"When I think about the idea of getting involved with an American woman, I don't know if I should laugh .............. or vomit!"

"Trying to meet women in America is like trying to decipher Egyptian hieroglyphics."
User avatar
jamesbond
Elite Upper Class Poster
 
Posts: 7502
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 5:45 pm
Location: USA

Postby SilverEnergy » Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:11 pm

The people who came over here from America were very Puritan and violent.

The overly religious atmosphere has created a sexually Puritanical country.

Sure, there are promiscous people here, including women but it doesn't change the fact that according to studies, Americans have among the least sex per year among developed countries and that sexless marriages are higher here than anywhere in the world.
"Allow me to show you the Power Cosmic!" - Silver Surfer
SilverEnergy
Junior Poster
 
Posts: 950
Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:41 pm

Postby OutWest » Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:33 am

jamesbond wrote:Holy smokes, check out this article, it gives statistics showing that in countries that are sexually repressive and prudish (like the USA) teen pregnancy, STD's and abortion are HIGHER than in countries that are more open towards sexuality.

Here are some excerpts from the article:

Someone who wants to make a strong argument in favor of more sexual liberalism needs only to compare the United States and Germany, a country that has comprehensive sex-ed programs and legal p4p.

In 2010, Germany had a rate of 8 abortions per 1,000 compared to the United States ’ 19.6 abortions per 1,000 in 2008.


The Netherlands has a reputation for being one of the most pro-sex countries in the world, and it isn’t hard to understand why. From comprehensive sex education to legal p4p (Amsterdam has one of Europe’s most famous red light districts) to nude and topless beaches.

In 2009, the Netherlands had a teen birth rate of 5.3 per 1,000 compared to 39.1 per 1,000 in the United States in 2009.

Sociologist Amy Schalet who is also professor at the University of Massachusetts has done extensive sex-related research on the United States and the Netherlands, often asserting that Americans would be much better off if they had the sexual openness of the Dutch.


Here is the link for the article:


http://www.alternet.org/story/154970/5_ ... page=0%2C0



These posts seem to be pretty much about stereotypes and cliches. I don't know if the Puritans were all that rigid...from what I read, they were pretty practical. Keep in mind, they primarily settled in the NE colonies, and there were many other settlers and influences to be found.

Because of the general lack of knowledge to be found within the USA, most can say anything, and few have the ammo to dispute it. Much of what is labeled as "Puritan" is in fact just
Evangelical or fundamentalist belief- much of which sprung up with the advent of the temperance movement in post civil war America.

As far as the teen birthrate in Western Europe goes- don't place much stock in stats like those listed.
Do they account for teen marriages? In general, the birthrate with Europeans is so low that their societies are headed towards collapse.

Jeesh, you all cannot make up your minds whether or not American women are a bunch of sluts or
whether they are a bunch of up-tight prudes...
OutWest
Veteran Poster
 
Posts: 2062
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:09 am
Location: Asia/USA

Postby jamesbond » Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:44 am

OutWest wrote:Jeesh, you all cannot make up your minds whether or not American women are a bunch of sluts or
whether they are a bunch of up-tight prudes...

Here is an article stating that Americans are a bunch of "promiscuous prudes." Here are some excerpt from the article.

Graphic language, nudity and sex are now commonplace in movies and on cable television. At the same time, there is now almost no tolerance for casual and slang banter in the media or the workplace. A boss who calls an employee “honeyâ€￾ might face accusations of fostering a hostile work environment, yet a television producer whose program shows an 18-year-old having sex does not. Many colleges offer courses on lurid themes from masturbation to prostitution, even as campus sexual-harassment suits over hurtful language are at an all-time high.

Former New York Gov. Eliot Spitzer found to have hired prostitutes on a number of occasions during his time in office was given a CNN news show despite the scandal. But when Miss California Carrie Prejean was asked in the Miss USA Pageant whether she endorsed same-sex marriage, she said no and thereby earned nearly as much popular condemnation for her candid defense of traditional marriage as Mr. Spitzer had for his purchased affairs.

Not since the late 19th-century juxtaposition of the Wild West with the Victorian East has popular morality been so unbridled and yet so uptight.

In short, we have become a nation of promiscuous prudes.



Here is the link for the article:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... us-prudes/
"When I think about the idea of getting involved with an American woman, I don't know if I should laugh .............. or vomit!"

"Trying to meet women in America is like trying to decipher Egyptian hieroglyphics."
User avatar
jamesbond
Elite Upper Class Poster
 
Posts: 7502
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 5:45 pm
Location: USA

Postby jamesbond » Tue Apr 22, 2014 1:32 pm

SilverEnergy wrote:The people who came over here from America were very Puritan and violent.

The overly religious atmosphere has created a sexually Puritanical country.

Sure, there are promiscous people here, including women but it doesn't change the fact that according to studies, Americans have among the least sex per year among developed countries and that sexless marriages are higher here than anywhere in the world.

Your right SilverEnergy, our early ancestors where very puritan and prudish. American married couples have the least amount of sex per year than any other married people in the world! Also, sexless marriages are the highest in America than anywhere else! :shock:

Check out this article I found today written by a man who grew up in Italy. The name of the article is, "Are We Too Prudish For Our Own Good?" Here are some excerpts from the article.

I am from Italy, which is known as one of the most romantic countries in Europe, a destination for lovers who come to visit from all over the world. So, perhaps I have a slightly different perspective on how Americans express themselves, particularly with regard to romance and sensuality. In Italy, we embrace these concepts in everything we do – the way we dress, the way we cook, the way we dine, and the way we live.

In America however, I sometimes sense a split personality with regard to these concepts. More specifically, I think we sometimes confuse our sensuality with sexuality, and as a result, try to keep both of them hidden for fear of corrupting our children.


For instance, if any part of the human body that would traditionally be covered by a bathing suit on a typical American beach is shown in a film, that film is rated for adult content, usually getting an “R.â€￾ If it is shown in a TV show, the scene is either deleted, or the “naughty bits,â€￾ as the British call them, are digitally pixilated out. And of course those areas are not necessarily even covered by bathing suits in Europe, as many of the beaches there are clothing optional.

In this type of censorship, there is no accounting for context. It’s not about the type of scene, but rather the anatomy. If it is a romantic scene, with a context of love and respect, soft lighting, and appropriate mood, it is considered just as “dirtyâ€￾ as a scene in which naked women are running around.

That is why young adults in America go directly from puberty straight to pornography – because they do not have anything in between, such as public art or other forms of healthy nudity – things that would help them develop an understanding of sensuality.

Here is the link for the full article: http://whatweekly.com/2011/11/10/prudish-america/
"When I think about the idea of getting involved with an American woman, I don't know if I should laugh .............. or vomit!"

"Trying to meet women in America is like trying to decipher Egyptian hieroglyphics."
User avatar
jamesbond
Elite Upper Class Poster
 
Posts: 7502
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 5:45 pm
Location: USA

Postby jamesbond » Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:06 pm

Check out this video where a guy from Germany explains how life is different there than it is in puritanical America. For example, in Germany they show nudity in television commercials and TV programs. You also see nudity on billboards and in newspapers.

Germany also has parks where women can sunbath topless. Also, in Germany they have co-ed all nude saunas.

This is stuff you would NEVER see in America because of our prudish, puritanical heritage.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ak-9uF94_Mg[/youtube]
"When I think about the idea of getting involved with an American woman, I don't know if I should laugh .............. or vomit!"

"Trying to meet women in America is like trying to decipher Egyptian hieroglyphics."
User avatar
jamesbond
Elite Upper Class Poster
 
Posts: 7502
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 5:45 pm
Location: USA

Postby jamesbond » Thu Apr 24, 2014 5:34 pm

Here is an excerpt from an article from the Seattle Times called, "European nudes and American prudes" by Rick Steves.

Any traveler to Europe who's visited a bath, perused a newsstand, hung out at a beach or park on a sunny day, or channel-surfed broadcast TV late at night has noticed that Europeans are more relaxed than Americans about nudity.

In the south of France, sunbathing grandmothers have no tan lines. In Norway, young children play naked in fountains. On summer days, accountants in Munich head to the park on their lunch break to grin and bare it, trading corporate suits for birthday suits. It's quite a shock to Americans (they're the ones riding their bikes into the river and trees). In Belgium, huge billboards advertise soap by showing a woman's lathered-up breasts.


On a recent trip to Europe, I spent an afternoon relaxing at the German spa resort of Baden-Baden. In two hours, I saw more naked people than I've seen in the last two years.
"When I think about the idea of getting involved with an American woman, I don't know if I should laugh .............. or vomit!"

"Trying to meet women in America is like trying to decipher Egyptian hieroglyphics."
User avatar
jamesbond
Elite Upper Class Poster
 
Posts: 7502
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 5:45 pm
Location: USA

Postby jamesbond » Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:01 pm

Here is a great article called "American Prude."

Why are Americans so prudish? There are many reasons to wonder. Europeans are more relaxed in every respect with regard to body image. They have topless beaches and the European men are much more inclined to wear skimpy Speedos, regardless of body shape. When I was in Europe, I watched a bit of "Euro TV" in various hotels -- sometimes late at night, or during the day between museum forays.

I was amazed that they showed what we would consider R-rated movies for general audiences after 10:30PM. Even the daytime TV commercials showed more than Americans see at a peep show. The same relaxed attitude also extends to print media, where Europeans flaunt what they have in weekly news magazines aimed at the general public. In Amsterdam, one of the nicest most historic canal streets is in the "red light" district. They don't see a need to set aside any other area for “the world’s oldest professionâ€￾.

Americans are prudes by any measure. American men wear boxy, down-to-the-knee swim suits. Women have even flirted with a return to one-piece suits -- Hello Miss America 1923. We fastidiously put V-chips in every TV and have several agencies that enforce censorship and movie ratings. America has a few nude and topless beaches, but they're more the subject of silly jokes than serious sunbathing. Magazines with adult content are in wrappers or covers partially concealed and proof of age is required to buy one.

That people might "have needs" is seen as a heinous evil that should only ever be met with monogamous, marital coupling and prayer sessions if needed. Particularly the American South (the "Bible Belt") has a problem with things like sexually oriented businesses, massage parlors and condom stores. Mind you, the presence or need of such things hasn't gone away -- America simply chooses to indulge its appetites privately, furtively, under the cloak of darkness. A part of the American psyche says, "It's not a sin if I don't get caught". The very concept of "getting caught", that sex is a crime -- is American as Apple pie.

Will America ever be less uptight about sex? Can we ever “get realâ€￾ about human nature and the human condition? It may well come to pass, but we will probably have to be as old as Europe and as burned by religion as they have been. Rome wasn’t built in a day, and the Church of Rome did not lose its glorious patina all in a day. Can sex and spirituality coexist in the same philosophical plane? I think so, but Americans will have to learn to “think different."
"When I think about the idea of getting involved with an American woman, I don't know if I should laugh .............. or vomit!"

"Trying to meet women in America is like trying to decipher Egyptian hieroglyphics."
User avatar
jamesbond
Elite Upper Class Poster
 
Posts: 7502
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 5:45 pm
Location: USA

Postby QuestionMark » Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:11 pm

This is a great topic, great points were made and great discussion. James Bond, you hit the nail on the head with almost every post. This is something I've noticed for over ten years now. And it's one of the big reasons why I've wanted to leave the states and move somewhere else for so long.

Yes america is prudish and puritanical. And as you stated, they're are contradictions of that in society all over the place. We have a culture which celebrates things like hooters, girlsgonewild, provocatively dressed women in movies and music videos, strip clubs, and porn (to an extent). But at the same time p4p is illegal in all but roughly half of one state, they teach teenagers to abstain from sex before marriage (although most people dont do that), nudity and even females being topless in mainstream media is considered obscene, is censored, and if it happens all hell will break loose (Janet Jackson at superbowl 04 ring a bell), and if men express that they like sex or female nudity they're considered disgusting, tasteless, immature perverts who don't respect women. America is a sexual hypocrite.

You were right about america being on of the few places were p4p is illegal in the world. There's a few other places where it's illegel such as Sweden, but most places dont take it so seriously that they're willing to waste taxpayers money and police resources to setup sting operations and vice squads just bust those involved, fine them, and make them attend a "john school". Also it goes on the person's record, so it even makes it hard for them to get an apartment or even certain jobs. Even in Canada, the supreme court just fully legalized it a few months ago. American cops even admit that they can never get rid of it altogether, but they're willing to go to that extent just to deter as many ppl as possible from doing it. In other countries such as Brazil and Australia, it's normal for cities to have a red light district. This is the self-proclaimed "freest" country in the world, but they will slam you to the ground and arrest you for paying for romance with a consenting adult?

Society encourages women to dress and look sexy but it's illegal in america for a woman to be topless in public. In other places this isn't the case.

I've heard some of those things about Europe but some of them are news to me. And that just makes Europe sound even better. I gotta get over there.

In america, if you want to see nudity or even toplessness on tv, or even just profanity, you pretty much have to pay significantly more money for movie channels.

And americans always use the excuse of "how will this affect the children" as the trump card. Are European children becoming inappropriately sexualized at 8 yrs old? No, if anything they're more mature than american kids, because sex education is better there, and the parents are more mature about sex.

And it's funny how americans are so prudish about sex, but they're very liberal towards violence. Violence is everywhere in america, in the media and in real life. How come american parents aren't offended and want to protect their kids from that. America is so backwards that it's not even funny, it's actually an embarrassment more than anything.
QuestionMark
Freshman Poster
 
Posts: 154
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:03 am

Postby S_Parc » Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:40 pm

QuestionMark wrote:This is the self-proclaimed "freest" country in the world, but they will slam you to the ground and arrest you for paying for romance with a consenting adult?


Yeah, but it's worse than that. The Sugar Daddy/Sugar Baby thing is fully ok in the US because in part, the guy is paying for an entire week's (month's or even year's) companionship but not for s*x. Thus, it's also made p4p an elite society where only the top 1% can afford to have mistresses at their beck & call.

The sting ops by the vice squad are all geared towards the avg Joe, who can't afford to have a 'kept' woman around for R&R, and thus, are entrapped into actually paying for the act itself.

If I were Kobe Bryant, I would never have married Vanessa. Instead, I'd have mistresses in each quadrant of the US, one near Delaware, one in Orlando, one in LA, one in Seattle, perhaps one in the heartland or TX triangle, and depending upon the NBA schedule, see a different gal during the national touring. Instead, the guy's got a false rape accusation (by a worker at a hotel in CO), had to pay her off [ or else ], lost a huge amount of advertising money as a result of the chatter, and then, had to apologize to Vanessa by buying her a $4M diamond ring. How pathetic :roll:
16 years ago, the Best Picture of 1999, "American Beauty", telegraphed the message of Happier Abroad to the world.

Beware of long term engagements with AWs, you may find yourself in a coffin.

AB discussion thread

BTW, despite settling down with an AW, myself, the warning is still in effect.
S_Parc
Veteran Poster
 
Posts: 2415
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2010 7:01 pm

Postby QuestionMark » Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:05 pm

S_Parc wrote:
QuestionMark wrote:This is the self-proclaimed "freest" country in the world, but they will slam you to the ground and arrest you for paying for romance with a consenting adult?


Yeah, but it's worse than that. The Sugar Daddy/Sugar Baby thing is fully ok in the US because in part, the guy is paying for an entire week's (month's or even year's) companionship but not for s*x. Thus, it's also made p4p an elite society where only the top 1% can afford to have mistresses at their beck & call.

The sting ops by the vice squad are all geared towards the avg Joe, who can't afford to have a 'kept' woman around for R&R, and thus, are entrapped into actually paying for the act itself.


That's right. In other countries, p4p is much more affordable and reasonable prices for the average joe. In the few counties in Nevada that actually do have legal p4p, I've heard of the girls charging men $800 an hour and up! In other places, you can get them much cheaper than that.
QuestionMark
Freshman Poster
 
Posts: 154
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:03 am

Postby S_Parc » Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:29 pm

QuestionMark wrote:That's right. In other countries, p4p is much more affordable and reasonable prices for the average joe. In the few counties in Nevada that actually do have legal p4p, I've heard of the girls charging men $800 an hour and up! In other places, you can get them much cheaper than that.


Even in London, quite possibly the most expensive city of the former Anglo-American empire, $800/hr is way over the top and could probably get one a date with an English rose actress, better looking than Kate Beckinsale.
16 years ago, the Best Picture of 1999, "American Beauty", telegraphed the message of Happier Abroad to the world.

Beware of long term engagements with AWs, you may find yourself in a coffin.

AB discussion thread

BTW, despite settling down with an AW, myself, the warning is still in effect.
S_Parc
Veteran Poster
 
Posts: 2415
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2010 7:01 pm

Next

Return to General Discussions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Eric and 4 guests