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Any male converts to Islam having success?

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Any male converts to Islam having success?

Postby TopSpruce » Tue May 06, 2014 3:40 pm

I read a lot about Dutch, British, etc. women converting to Islam and marrying muslim men.

What about the reverse? Are there any examples of Western men who converted to Islam, moved to the Islamic world, and started family and new life with a local woman?


I'd be interested in hearing about this.
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Postby TopSpruce » Tue May 06, 2014 3:41 pm

Here is one example:

Dear All,

I am seeking for the best and fastest way for me and my Saudi Fiancee' to get married. I am a true blue red blooded American that converted to Islam in 2007. Both her and I want to marry asap (she is 27 and I am 42) and her mom, dad, and family have given us their blessings and permission. Now all we need to do is find out the rules, regulations, prices, and procedures for us to marry. We both live here in Riyadh and I of course am here with a work visa.

In true Islam, the Hadiths state, when a man and woman love each other and want to marry, let them marry and be swift about it. If not, temptation and sins will surely set in. Is this the right interpretation? You need the woman's consent, the mans consent, and the legal guardians consent and two witnesses, in order to get married in Islam. Is this correct as well? Or do I remember wrongly? This is suppose to be the birth place and the Land of Islam, but they do not follow the rules of Islam. They merely take the parts they like and use them and ignore the rest.

where can we get married here in Saudi, so all of her friends and family may witness the marriage (while we are waiting for permission from the Saudi Government) and then travel to another country and get a real marriage license, so we may travel abroad as husband and wife? If we choose that route.

Please give me all the advice and different ways of getting married here, so I may sit with her and her family and decide the best course of action.

I would like for us to be married soon, so we can travel to America during the Christmas and New Years Holidays and meet everyone in my family. Plus take her snow skiing in Colorado, she really wants to see snow and in Louisiana, where I am from, it doesn't snow.

Thank you for all of your time and efforts in helping us. We hope to hear some good information from you soon.

Regards,

Ahmed & Ashwaq

http://www.expat-blog.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=269712
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Postby TopSpruce » Wed May 07, 2014 2:20 pm

A Hadith of the Prophet:
"... this wealth is like a sweet fresh fruit; whoever takes it without greediness, he is blessed in it, and whoever takes it with greediness, he is not blessed in it, and he is like a person who eats but is never satisfied..."

I think Islam has many good things to offer, but I must be sure I can live in a society and be accepted.
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Postby Jester » Wed May 07, 2014 6:32 pm

Moslems are NOT like Catholic Christians and they DO discriminate on race. Hell they were still taking Black slaves in the Sudan in the 1990's. And Blacks making a pilgrimage to Mecca are, to this day, routed to segregated camps.

I know that how Blacks are treated doesn't directly translate to how White converts are treated, and Whites might have elevated status as a novelty. But blending in with Tadzhiks, Yemenis, etc is going to be difficult. Because they are less Moslem than they are tribal.

That said, I hate to aid you in your quest, but I will.

Albania or Bosnia.

Not because the women are White, but because a White convert will be accepted. You will look like them.

And they are wannabe-Europeans.
"Pick a point and go to it."
-- Dr John Hunsucker, speaking about canoeing on Georgia's Lake Lanier, with its irregular shape, and 1000 miles of meandering shoreline
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Postby TopSpruce » Wed May 07, 2014 8:47 pm

Jester wrote:Moslems are NOT like Catholic Christians and they DO discriminate on race. Hell they were still taking Black slaves in the Sudan in the 1990's. And Blacks making a pilgrimage to Mecca are, to this day, routed to segregated camps.

I know that how Blacks are treated doesn't directly translate to how White converts are treated, and Whites might have elevated status as a novelty. But blending in with Tadzhiks, Yemenis, etc is going to be difficult. Because they are less Moslem than they are tribal.

That said, I hate to aid you in your quest, but I will.

Albania or Bosnia.

Not because the women are White, but because a White convert will be accepted. You will look like them.

And they are wannabe-Europeans.


The Birth rates in Albania and Bosnia are abysmal. Clearly, the women have no interest in family. Also, they are Muslims in name only, like many Turks.

I find that looking like everyone else does not necessarily lead to acceptance.
Belarus and Ukraine are not accepting of foreigners, even if you look exactly like them.

I have read several examples of white women converting to Islam with success...but I am not sure if a white man would be able to do the same.

Perhaps you are correct, a white convert would be seen as a novelty and would be liked. For example, lots of white men who travel to Africa say they get along very well with the ladies and vice versa (lots of blacks do well in Europe). I don't think the average white guy with a tan looks too different from Tajiks or Yemenis:

Tajiks
Image

Yemenis
Image
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Postby Jester » Thu May 08, 2014 5:46 am

Sorry, didnt realize birthrate was in the picture.

BTW I crave children as well.

For birthrate as you undoubtedly have researched already, Moslem Black countries are best.

Personally if going to Africa I would go to Ethiopia or perhaps Ghana or South Africa. But that's me.

What about Indonesia? Maybe a little easier to blend than in a seriously Moslem place?
"Pick a point and go to it."
-- Dr John Hunsucker, speaking about canoeing on Georgia's Lake Lanier, with its irregular shape, and 1000 miles of meandering shoreline
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Postby Jester » Thu May 08, 2014 6:21 am

PS Another way to increase birthrate, besides going Black and going Moslem, is polygamy. The average wife in polygamy has 1 more child than a wife in monogamy in exactly the same country.

Women like to compete.
"Pick a point and go to it."
-- Dr John Hunsucker, speaking about canoeing on Georgia's Lake Lanier, with its irregular shape, and 1000 miles of meandering shoreline
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Postby TopSpruce » Thu May 08, 2014 1:29 pm

Jester wrote:Sorry, didnt realize birthrate was in the picture.

BTW I crave children as well.

For birthrate as you undoubtedly have researched already, Moslem Black countries are best.

Personally if going to Africa I would go to Ethiopia or perhaps Ghana or South Africa. But that's me.

What about Indonesia? Maybe a little easier to blend than in a seriously Moslem place?


Yes, Ethiopia, Tajikistan, and Yemen are all options. Indonesia is not a very welcoming place to foreigners from my research. The statistics in the map (http://www.happierabroad.com/forum/view ... hp?t=22943) as well as anecdotal reports indicate a less than welcoming atmosphere for foreigners.

Plus, whats wrong with a seriously muslim place? From my research, Islam is not a difficult religion to follow, especially in a society that supports the religion. I could see being a muslim in the US or UK being difficult, but being a muslim in a muslim society doesn't seem difficult.
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Postby Jester » Thu May 08, 2014 1:39 pm

TopSpruce wrote:
Jester wrote:Sorry, didnt realize birthrate was in the picture.

BTW I crave children as well.

For birthrate as you undoubtedly have researched already, Moslem Black countries are best.

Personally if going to Africa I would go to Ethiopia or perhaps Ghana or South Africa. But that's me.

What about Indonesia? Maybe a little easier to blend than in a seriously Moslem place?


Yes, Ethiopia, Tajikistan, and Yemen are all options. Indonesia is not a very welcoming place to foreigners from my research. The statistics in the map (http://www.happierabroad.com/forum/view ... hp?t=22943) as well as anecdotal reports indicate a less than welcoming atmosphere for foreigners.

Plus, whats wrong with a seriously muslim place? From my research, Islam is not a difficult religion to follow, especially in a society that supports the religion.
I could see being a muslim in the US or UK being difficult, but being a muslim in a muslim society doesn't seem difficult.


You have it backwards. A White-guy convert would be very welcome in the US or Britain, where they want to add to their numbers and put a pretty face on things -- and gain power. Back in ButtFuckistan, they are tribal. They keep tribal power undiluted by treating you at arms length. For example in Yemen, your best chance at integrating would be Aden, which has a more cosmopolitan vibe, and probably some mixed couples as well.

You are depending way too much on statistics and pseudo-science. Better to read field reports from folks who have been there. Indonesia is a very friendly place. And there are White guys there who have harems.

In Africa, you might also consider Djibouti. Moslem Somali population but French.
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Postby TopSpruce » Thu May 08, 2014 1:58 pm

Jester wrote:
TopSpruce wrote:
Jester wrote:Sorry, didnt realize birthrate was in the picture.

BTW I crave children as well.

For birthrate as you undoubtedly have researched already, Moslem Black countries are best.

Personally if going to Africa I would go to Ethiopia or perhaps Ghana or South Africa. But that's me.

What about Indonesia? Maybe a little easier to blend than in a seriously Moslem place?


Yes, Ethiopia, Tajikistan, and Yemen are all options. Indonesia is not a very welcoming place to foreigners from my research. The statistics in the map (http://www.happierabroad.com/forum/view ... hp?t=22943) as well as anecdotal reports indicate a less than welcoming atmosphere for foreigners.

Plus, whats wrong with a seriously muslim place? From my research, Islam is not a difficult religion to follow, especially in a society that supports the religion.
I could see being a muslim in the US or UK being difficult, but being a muslim in a muslim society doesn't seem difficult.


You have it backwards. A White-guy convert would be very welcome in the US or Britain, where they want to add to their numbers and put a pretty face on things -- and gain power. Back in ButtFuckistan, they are tribal. They keep tribal power undiluted by treating you at arms length. For example in Yemen, your best chance at integrating would be Aden, which has a more cosmopolitan vibe, and probably some mixed couples as well.

You are depending way too much on statistics and pseudo-science. Better to read field reports from folks who have been there. Indonesia is a very friendly place. And there are White guys there who have harems.

In Africa, you might also consider Djibouti. Moslem Somali population but French.



Trip reports :

Dutch woman who converted to Islam and married a man in Yemen. Still living there now:
http://www.expatfocus.com/c/aid=98/expa ... hla-sanaa/

Also, there is a 2010 report(can't find it now) of 10 Ameican men who converted to Islam in prison and then moved to Yemen and got married there. There are some rumors that they then became terrorists. I'm not sure if that's a happy ending (I'm not interested in dying for a cause. War is for other types of people, I'm not a soldier.)

Next, a lot of neighboring arab men come to Yemen and marry. This is so common that the govt of Yemen instituted a requiring these men to deposit money in a Yemeni bank ($2500) before the marriage.

Djibouti gets poor marks from Naughty Nomad: http://naughtynomad.com/2013/06/21/city ... -djibouti/
According to NN, the French and American military bases in the region make locals less friendly due foreigners. Nothing like a foreign military base to piss people off.

Also, according to a western reporter, he was offered a bride in his Somalia trip. Yes, tribal muslim countries are awful for pickup artists trying to bang chicks, but they are probably great for marriage. In fact, the tribal aspect probably helps a lot in arranged marriages and semi-arranged marriages.
Last edited by TopSpruce on Thu May 08, 2014 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Jester » Thu May 08, 2014 2:07 pm

TopSpruce wrote:
Trip reports :

Dutch woman who converted to Islam and married a man in Yemen. Still living there now:
http://www.expatfocus.com/c/aid=98/expa ... hla-sanaa/

Also, there is a 2010 report(can't find it now) of 10 Ameican men who converted to Islam in prison and then moved to Yemen and got married there. There are some rumors that they then became terrorists. I'm not sure if that's a happy ending (I'm not interested in dying for a cause. War is for other types of people, I'm not a soldier.)

Next, a lot of neighboring arab men come to Yemen and marry. This is so common that the govt of Yemen instituted a requiring these men to deposit money in a Yemeni bank ($2500) before the marriage.


Womans experience has no applicability. Tribes do scoop up outside women. (My Dad did!)

Prisoner experience could be applicable.

Arab men not applicable, unless you are going to bring a girl to a third country. I don't question that there are good brides. The question is how easy it would be to integrate into the society.

One obvious place would be Iran. Aryan blood, ancient empire with a tradition of integrating and accepting immigrants, love Americans, pro-family regime, civilized gentle educated people, subways and parks in Tehran.
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Postby TopSpruce » Thu May 08, 2014 2:18 pm

No to Iran. I'm very much in favor of a weak and corrupt government with little authority. My experiences in Belarus and Ukraine bore this out.

Ukraine: you make a mistake and you can bribe yourself out. Cops are more concerned with getting money than enforcing laws.

Belarus: Secret police, people with agendas, and little recourse in case of trouble.

I can deal with the corrupt cop or thief in Ukraine, I understand what drives him: simple greed. I don't know how to deal with problems in Belarus. You can't deal with a system that's against you...its too hard to fight and you will lose. In countries with a strong government you have people who will do things just for pride's sake. They will f**k you over just to show they have power over you. In a corrupt country, people will conduct business transactions with you on a more individual and equal basis, without the backing of the state.
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Re: Any male converts to Islam having success?

Postby OutWest » Thu May 08, 2014 2:42 pm

TopSpruce wrote:I read a lot about Dutch, British, etc. women converting to Islam and marrying muslim men.

What about the reverse? Are there any examples of Western men who converted to Islam, moved to the Islamic world, and started family and new life with a local woman?


I'd be interested in hearing about this.



If you convert to Islam for reasons of genuine personal conviction, that is of course your right, and could indicate your wiliness to live in some of the more strict Islamic societies, where there is no
religious freedom and society functions as a religious dictatorship. That would not be my cup of tea, but so long as one makes such a decision from a fully informed perspective, it at least shows an effort at personal integrity.

Much of what I read here, however, is shear silliness. As if converting to Islam is some kind of
clever ploy, PUA with a religious angle. Convert, and it allows you such and such, could get that harem, wink wink...

This kind of conversion indicates shallow character and a lack of personal integrity.
It is the mark of a fool of the highest order. Were I a sincere Islamic cleric, I would be on the
watch for such scamming conversions with ulterior motives.
Last edited by OutWest on Thu May 08, 2014 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Jester » Thu May 08, 2014 2:43 pm

TopSpruce wrote:
No to Iran. I'm very much in favor of a weak and corrupt government with little authority. My experiences in Belarus and Ukraine bore this out.

Ukraine: you make a mistake and you can bribe yourself out. Cops are more concerned with getting money than enforcing laws.

Belarus: Secret police, people with agendas, and little recourse in case of trouble.

I can deal with the corrupt cop or thief in Ukraine, I understand what drives him: simple greed. I don't know how to deal with problems in Belarus. You can't deal with a system that's against you...its too hard to fight and you will lose. In countries with a strong government you have people who will do things just for pride's sake. They will f**k you over just to show they have power over you. In a corrupt country, people will conduct business transactions with you on a more individual and equal basis, without the backing of the state.


Your comment reminds me of FSchmidt's remarks about Mexico. And I agree completely. In today's world, pervasive corruption protects the average man's liberty.

Tadzhikistan and Yemen now make more sense to me, based on this criterion.

And thanks for the Belarus vs Ukraine comparison. New info.

Re Ukraine, you found it livable? Except for lack of bride-quality women?
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Postby TopSpruce » Thu May 08, 2014 2:57 pm

I don't just think its in today's world. Its always been like this. Think back in history to the countries with strong governments and empires...the average citizen had fewer rights. In the weaker and smaller countries, people lived better.

Obviously, there are exceptions where there is zero government and things are bad. But, I am very much in favor of minimal government. As long as there is enough police protection so that child rapists and serial killers are kept at bay, I'm ok.

People, on average, are not bad. They go to work, raise familes, meet with friends, etc. Its fairly rare that someone decides to murder or rape. Usually, there are much easier and safer ways to get what you want. On the other hand, government probably overreaches a lot. Think about USA suburbs: you can get stopped by police for minor traffic violations or get put into jail for a long time for a minor drug charge. In USA cities, cops leave you alone as long as you aren't killing someone or robbing a bank. That's because cops have less authority in cities. Often, you have gangs with guns who could stand up to the police. So, the cops have to focus on the serious problems and not on minor offenses.

In a corrupt and low-authority state, as long as you don't engage in organized crime and stay away from bad neighborhoods, you're pretty safe. People will leave you be as long as you don't bother them. You won't get robbed as long as you have little to get stolen. I don't have a smart phone, my laptop is used and several years old, I dress like an average dude, I wear a $40 watch, and I don't own a car. I'm not worried about thieves.

RE Ukraine, yes very liveable


----------------------------------------------------------------


RE OutWest. Have you met a muslim from Pakistan or Iran or Bangladesh? So, if I follow the rituals, read the holy books, and declare my faith in God then I follow the teachings and live my life the way a devout muslim does. Does that not make me a muslim?

Perhaps faith begins with an interest in Islamic culture and a hope of a good wife...then develops into something more. How many women have converted because of their husbands, but after their husband dies/leaves them still remain muslims? Apparently they found some truth in Islam.

Is being attracted to a religion because I see good family values a bad thing????
Aren't family values a good thing? Aren't these universal values that everyone strives for? If so, then wouldn't a religion that promoted them be good?

If you saw a religion that preached family values, good wives, and happy children...but saw no real world results, would you respect that religion? Look at evangelical Christians in America. They preach love and family, sanctity of marriage and good families....yet look at the real world results. Evangelical Christians have some of the highest divorce rates in America!(http://www.baylor.edu/mediacommunicatio ... ory=137892)

So, if I see a religion that preaches family values AND I see them practice their beliefs in the real world........ then why wouldn't I be attracted to such a religion? Isn't that a sign that this is a good religion, a true religion?
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