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Any male converts to Islam having success?

Discuss and talk about any general topic.

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Postby MrPeabody » Thu May 08, 2014 5:52 pm

Convert to Sufism. Watch the video below of a sufi worship service to see a manly form of group worship that you won't find in the feminist dominated West. It would be worth it if you could find a real teacher. But be careful about new age clown pretenders.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSPIGsE ... zkcJinT7e8
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Postby gsjackson » Thu May 08, 2014 6:14 pm

TopSpruce wrote:The Birth rates in Albania and Bosnia are abysmal. Clearly, the women have no interest in family. Also, they are Muslims in name only, like many Turks.


I've been in Sarajevo for the past two weeks. There certainly seem to be plenty of devout Muslims here. Many mosques, lots of chanting coming from the towers over loudspeakers, plenty of people bowing toward Mecca during the day. As far as the Bosnian birth rate goes, that probably has a lot to do with the diaspora during the war in the '90s. Sarajevo lost about 200,000 people.

The women here are quite attractive, approachable and friendly. Imagine, if you can, getting a big smile from attractive young women when you start a conversation. And the country is beautiful, Sarajevo is a splendid city full of character and history. The prices here for many things, such as rent, are third world.

Downside: ubiquitous cigarette smoke. You can't escape it.

I'm generally in agreement with OutWest's point. Tenuous though my religious beliefs may be, they aren't for sale in exchange for a woman. But I also generally subscribe to the position of my favorite religion writer, Huston Smith: "My body belongs to the Methodist Church, as it always has, but my soul belongs to all the world's great religions." I would consider converting to one of them, as long as the woman understood that my beliefs are internal and sacrosanct, and may not be of a piece with my outward form of worship.

I rushed into something with the first agreeable woman here, and Sarajevo is a bit like a small town, in that everybody is always out and about in the pedestrian culture. So you can get a reputation pretty fast if you interact. For that reason and others, I'm moving on in a couple of weeks. I'd prefer not to marry a Muslim woman. But I recommend the place, especially if you think that tradition might be for you. I certainly wouldn't rule it out for the reasons you stated.
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Postby TopSpruce » Thu May 08, 2014 6:27 pm

Birth rates in Albania and Bosnia started dropping long before the war. In fact, there is no precipitous drop in the 90s...just a continuation of the steady decline. Clearly, the women there are not interested in kids.

Regarding beliefs...clearly I have none at the moment. I have no religion, nationality, or culture that I belong to. I can say I prefer Strawberries to apples and that I like sunshine better than rain....that's the extent of my belief system at the moment.

However, I would consider joining a religion that practices what it preaches. As I said in my previous post, Evangelical Christians preach family values but have a higher divorce rate than average. Muslims preach family values...and they actually have that in practice. If there is any sign that Islam is a true religion, its that it preaches good things...AND they actually practice them. Isn't that what a religion is supposed to be about? Isn't religion supposed to teach good values and communion with God? And wouldn't people who truly believed in God and their faith do as they were instructed to do and be good people with good family values?

A system of beliefs with traditional gender roles, family values, and promotion of marriage is a system that interests me enough to at least explore it as a possibility. Some people say that Islam oppresses women...I disagree. There is research out there that shows women in more traditional roles are HAPPIER...not less so. Some people say Islam restricts freedom....well there is definitely a lot of research that defined roles with fewer options makes people HAPPIER. Perhaps it is the natural path for humans. Humans need some choice, but unlimited options confuse. Perhaps Islam is a way to contain humans, set boundaries, and focus people on a path.

http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/nyt-t ... marriages/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Paradox_of_Choice
http://www.ted.com/talks/barry_schwartz ... ce#t-27509
http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_gilbert_as ... e_we_happy

The more I think about it...the more it makes sense. I need to find the most traditional religion and culture that I can integrate into. I used to think Happier abroad was all about poor countries abroad...now I realize that's not it. Ukraine is poor, very poor, yet they lack traditional culture. Religion plays a minimal role in daily life, traditional gender roles among the young have degraded and continue to do so. However, the places with high birth rate, low divorce rate, high religion rate, and traditional culture are all possibilities. I have also read about Ethiopian Christianity and it also seems like a very traditional religion worth considering. Sufi Islam also has intriguing ideas. All good possibilities....
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Postby OutWest » Fri May 09, 2014 3:43 am

TopSpruce wrote:Birth rates in Albania and Bosnia started dropping long before the war. In fact, there is no precipitous drop in the 90s...just a continuation of the steady decline. Clearly, the women there are not interested in kids.

Regarding beliefs...clearly I have none at the moment. I have no religion, nationality, or culture that I belong to. I can say I prefer Strawberries to apples and that I like sunshine better than rain....that's the extent of my belief system at the moment.

However, I would consider joining a religion that practices what it preaches. As I said in my previous post, Evangelical Christians preach family values but have a higher divorce rate than average. Muslims preach family values...and they actually have that in practice. If there is any sign that Islam is a true religion, its that it preaches good things...AND they actually practice them. Isn't that what a religion is supposed to be about? Isn't religion supposed to teach good values and communion with God? And wouldn't people who truly believed in God and their faith do as they were instructed to do and be good people with good family values?

A system of beliefs with traditional gender roles, family values, and promotion of marriage is a system that interests me enough to at least explore it as a possibility. Some people say that Islam oppresses women...I disagree. There is research out there that shows women in more traditional roles are HAPPIER...not less so. Some people say Islam restricts freedom....well there is definitely a lot of research that defined roles with fewer options makes people HAPPIER. Perhaps it is the natural path for humans. Humans need some choice, but unlimited options confuse. Perhaps Islam is a way to contain humans, set boundaries, and focus people on a path.

http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/nyt-t ... marriages/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Paradox_of_Choice
http://www.ted.com/talks/barry_schwartz ... ce#t-27509
http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_gilbert_as ... e_we_happy

The more I think about it...the more it makes sense. I need to find the most traditional religion and culture that I can integrate into. I used to think Happier abroad was all about poor countries abroad...now I realize that's not it. Ukraine is poor, very poor, yet they lack traditional culture. Religion plays a minimal role in daily life, traditional gender roles among the young have degraded and continue to do so. However, the places with high birth rate, low divorce rate, high religion rate, and traditional culture are all possibilities. I have also read about Ethiopian Christianity and it also seems like a very traditional religion worth considering. Sufi Islam also has intriguing ideas. All good possibilities....



Have you ever lived in a Muslim society or spent significant time there?
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Postby TopSpruce » Fri May 09, 2014 3:50 am

I won't know until I try it. Have you?

I need to decide where to spend the rest of my life. I guess I need to choose somewhere. I'd rather it be a place with warm weather and a traditional culture where I can find a good wife and raise a family.
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Postby OutWest » Fri May 09, 2014 4:08 am

TopSpruce wrote:I don't just think its in today's world. Its always been like this. Think back in history to the countries with strong governments and empires...the average citizen had fewer rights. In the weaker and smaller countries, people lived better.

Obviously, there are exceptions where there is zero government and things are bad. But, I am very much in favor of minimal government. As long as there is enough police protection so that child rapists and serial killers are kept at bay, I'm ok.

People, on average, are not bad. They go to work, raise familes, meet with friends, etc. Its fairly rare that someone decides to murder or rape. Usually, there are much easier and safer ways to get what you want. On the other hand, government probably overreaches a lot. Think about USA suburbs: you can get stopped by police for minor traffic violations or get put into jail for a long time for a minor drug charge. In USA cities, cops leave you alone as long as you aren't killing someone or robbing a bank. That's because cops have less authority in cities. Often, you have gangs with guns who could stand up to the police. So, the cops have to focus on the serious problems and not on minor offenses.

In a corrupt and low-authority state, as long as you don't engage in organized crime and stay away from bad neighborhoods, you're pretty safe. People will leave you be as long as you don't bother them. You won't get robbed as long as you have little to get stolen. I don't have a smart phone, my laptop is used and several years old, I dress like an average dude, I wear a $40 watch, and I don't own a car. I'm not worried about thieves.

RE Ukraine, yes very liveable


----------------------------------------------------------------


RE OutWest. Have you met a muslim from Pakistan or Iran or Bangladesh? So, if I follow the rituals, read the holy books, and declare my faith in God then I follow the teachings and live my life the way a devout muslim does. Does that not make me a muslim?

Perhaps faith begins with an interest in Islamic culture and a hope of a good wife...then develops into something more. How many women have converted because of their husbands, but after their husband dies/leaves them still remain muslims? Apparently they found some truth in Islam.

Is being attracted to a religion because I see good family values a bad thing????
Aren't family values a good thing? Aren't these universal values that everyone strives for? If so, then wouldn't a religion that promoted them be good?

If you saw a religion that preached family values, good wives, and happy children...but saw no real world results, would you respect that religion? Look at evangelical Christians in America. They preach love and family, sanctity of marriage and good families....yet look at the real world results. Evangelical Christians have some of the highest divorce rates in America!(http://www.baylor.edu/mediacommunicatio ... ory=137892)

So, if I see a religion that preaches family values AND I see them practice their beliefs in the real world........ then why wouldn't I be attracted to such a religion? Isn't that a sign that this is a good religion, a true religion?


I live with Muslims close at hand and have done so for years in my area of the Philippines, and I have nearly daily dealings with them. Generally, Filipino Muslims are pretty permissive as far as Muslims go, but some are quite strict.
If you read my post, the point was not to denigrate Muslims, it was critical of those who think
that converting is something to play in order to score better women. As I said, were I an Islamic cleric, I would be critical of suspect conversions.
Myself, I do not want to be ruled by religious authorities. I prefer such things to be a matter of conscience. If you like the idea, help yourself.
All dictatorships seem to reason that limiting freedom and choice for the "masses" will make them
happier. Generally, given human nature, with dictatorship comes oppression, while the leadership continues to insist that "the people" are happy to be living under their rule.
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Postby MrPeabody » Fri May 09, 2014 5:22 am

There are plenty of moderate Islamic sects in the world. Turkey could be an interesting place to go. It was the British who installed the Wahhabis in Saudi Arabia because it was believed they were the most stable protectors of the oil supply. The Wahhbis are the most extreme form of Islam. And a moderate Islamic democracy was overthrown in Iran because the leader threatened to nationalize a British Oil Company. Then again the US supported the Taliban to fight the Soviet Union. Again the extremists take over. It was the West that installed Islamic extremism in order to secure a steady supply of oil for the West and Islam gets blamed. It would be like Middle Eastern countries giving a trillion dollars to snake handlers in West Virginia and then complaining that Christian extremists are a world problem.
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