Why I Respect PUA

[Jester]

Duende, I see your point, but on this webpage alone I see four banner ads and one text link ad. On the ROK homepage there's a single banner ad. I've never seen a ROK article end with "join our seminar.

ROK makes around $1000 a month (if not more) just to display that single banner, as Roosh is using a direct monthly sponsorship kind of plan. None of the ads on HA are advertising and/or selling products and services from Winston or members of HA. Roosh and most of his bloggers are showcasing their wisdom on RoK and have (or at least try to have) their game/life coaching or pimping businesses on the side.

You clearly see PUAs and their acolytes as champions of a "sweet revenge" kind of dating approach. Masters of the pumping & dumping who will "teach those mindless sluts, yeah". This might have some sense if those people were actually doing what they preach and write about. Reality is, they're just a bunch of poseurs who make up stories to share and reinforce their philosophy, whether that's aimed at monetising immediately or creating a reputation aura and monetise later. It's pathetic wishful thinking and fictional storytelling at its worst.

Too sad you can't see it. Since most of these communities exist to primarily groom their egos and sell their products/services, these bullcrap braggadocio lifestyle stories are never called out for what they are. Everybody's in the game, and everybody is guilty, so nobody will stand up and shout that yes, the king wear no clothes. After all, isn't so much of the narrative going on in America right now, from the healthy economy to the shale oil boom, based on this mix of wishful thinking and normalcy bias? Hear and see what you want to hear and see, and discard the rest.

I don't care for their bragging, their fecklessness or for the sluts they bed.

But I don't know why you are so sure that they are lying.

I know a guy who beds women all the time, gets laid before spending money, has multiple girls who want him, etc. He dates from mid thirties to mid fifties usually. He gets tired of every woman, has to get someone new, it's kind of a complulsion I guess. He isn't hurting innocent girls, and he tells no lies.

He doesn't brag, or sell anything.

And this guy is 56 years old, has a non-glamorous business and lots of free time. He is friendly, smart and multicultural, which all helps. But he ain't young, and he can't dance.

So if he can do it, I guess the guys traveling the world and bragging on the Roosh Forum, guys who lift weights, dress sharp, spend money in clubs etc., can probably do it too. I don't know why you would doubt them. Yeah a few smell like liars, bu I've seen that here too once o twice.

Mostly these PUA types are getting the same skanky club girls, but not always. Roosh, for example, chronicles some pretty cruel, heartless stuff. Seduction and abandonment of the innocent is pretty damn distasteful to many of us. But it does happen, when circumstances permit, and when guards are down. So yeah, God apparently didn't make girls to be as tough-minded and suspicious as a protective dad would be.

Do we want women to get used? Not generally, if they are decent people. But does that make the PUA's liars? Not IMO.

[Jester]

.....I realized what I want most in life is to create something, to build something. A stable and lasting relationship, a large and growing family. And someone to grow old with.

Looks fade. Personalities persevere. When I am old I don't want to have a list of conquests and some sexy memories being the only legacy I leave to this world upon my departure from it. Instead I want to be surrounded by people I love and with whom I have meaningful, personal and warm relationships. Instead of desiring a shallow and materialistic life like the ones my peers live, I wish to live a life more along the lines of the one my grandparents lived. .....

And this, guys, is how we Europeans do it.

{slaps forehead, groans}

[Jester]

Wilt Chamberlain slept with thousands of women

Can't let that one go by. He claimed 20,000. Definitely a tenfold exaggeration at least. Just based on time required.

Obvious lie, gets repeated with eyes agog.

[S_Parc]

For the record, I've never looked at sex as an achievement. If I did, I wouldn't have turned down all those girls in college, including the one who was literally climbing on top of me.

You turned down a girl who literally climbed on top of you? Wow. Just, wow. I don't think a lot of men have such restraint. Hell, even if I did I'd slap myself in the face the next day. What made you decline the opportunity of sex, when it was literally thrown in your lap? That seems kinda off to me mate. No offense of course, I am just curious and quite amazed haha.

Well, some time ago, I had a hot British blonde bombshell with huge knockers do the same thing to me in the US. The only reason why I'd turned her away was that she wanted to go at it, without a condom. And sure, it took a lot of internal discipline but I realized that since she was on a student visa to the States, that risking a pregnancy was the worst thing I could do. In that regard, I'm very careful.

[S_Parc]

Wilt Chamberlain slept with thousands of women

Can't let that one go by. He claimed 20,000. Definitely a tenfold exaggeration at least. Just based on time required.

Obvious lie, gets repeated with eyes agog.

That would leave him with practically no time to actually play b-ball.

[Repatriate]

I think PUA's are necessary in the Anglo World, but not outside of it.

I respect PUA's, but not when their overseas in Latin America, Asia or Eastern Europe, because they make it harder for non-mongers to find good women in those places.

I think RooshV is a hero to the Men's movement, but I don't respect him--or his legions of mongers--ruining-it for good men in this world.

I agree with this 100%. I think Rooshv is very necessary and an important part in spreading awareness about how far down the rabbit hole American society has gone with feminism and other nonsense. With that being said there is a much higher percentage of nasty characters on Roosh forum. Quite a few of their regular forum members are just nasty sociopaths who really do dislike women and wish to pump/dump every girl that comes along. Plus there's definitely a vocal contingent of white supremacists on Roosh who are always pushing the race angle or race politics. We have our resident white supremacist Cornfed but Roosh has many more guys like that on their site.

[fightforlove]

That article isn't so much about PUA as it is about Red Pill. And, aside from probably a few exaggerations, is mostly likely a true story. This is the prime narrative of TRP/Manosphere, and I've seen it with my own eyes.

I think ABC David meant to say that he supports men who discover and swallow the red pill, because it's a game changer, a life saver.

This writer matured into his 30s, has become successful, sees the naivete of his younger days, the sad truth of gender dynamics in America and American women, and is now confidently standing above the fray, living life on his own terms and reaping some good, sweet results. Good for him, seriously. Better than remaining blue pill, going crazy and taking a gun and shooting a dozen random people.

Yes, Game is a big part of his success. Like another poster said, Game can be very useful to a great many men, if understood and used correctly. This is why I actually find myself having a bit of a growing respect for Roosh V. The guy may be a douchebag and hasn't left many women any better, but it's not like he's just Mystery 2.0 He's Red Pill and is man enough to call things the way he sees it. He provides insights on topics that other PUAs would never touch in the first place. Men can really benefit and make better, life-improving decisions if they can internalize red pill and develop some Game to complement themselves.

[publicduende]

I don't care for their bragging, their fecklessness or for the sluts they bed.

But I don't know why you are so sure that they are lying.

I know a guy who beds women all the time, gets laid before spending money, has multiple girls who want him, etc. He dates from mid thirties to mid fifties usually. He gets tired of every woman, has to get someone new, it's kind of a complulsion I guess. He isn't hurting innocent girls, and he tells no lies.

He doesn't brag, or sell anything.

And this guy is 56 years old, has a non-glamorous business and lots of free time. He is friendly, smart and multicultural, which all helps. But he ain't young, and he can't dance.

So if he can do it, I guess the guys traveling the world and bragging on the Roosh Forum, guys who lift weights, dress sharp, spend money in clubs etc., can probably do it too. I don't know why you would doubt them. Yeah a few smell like liars, bu I've seen that here too once o twice.

Mostly these PUA types are getting the same skanky club girls, but not always. Roosh, for example, chronicles some pretty cruel, heartless stuff. Seduction and abandonment of the innocent is pretty damn distasteful to many of us. But it does happen, when circumstances permit, and when guards are down. So yeah, God apparently didn't make girls to be as tough-minded and suspicious as a protective dad would be.

Do we want women to get used? Not generally, if they are decent people. But does that make the PUA's liars? Not IMO.

Look. I have read a few posts from RoK, Roosh V forums, various blogs from PUA gurus and wannabe gurus, etc. on my train to work, or idling in bed before going to sleep. If you take Roosh and his crew on RoK for example, it's so evident to me that 98% of what they write is fiction or fiction-al, that I no longer know if it's supposed to be fun, pathetic or plain sad.

Reading this PUA/masculine poseur crap is like watching one of these modern, special FX-laden action movies. Provided your suspension of belief is correctly triggered, you can spend a good couple of hours being entertained by the guy whose schedule is so full of hot bangs that he doesn't mind having a single mom or two thrown in, or the one who meets Siberian and Ukrainian girls at the train station, smiling like they've never seen a man before and holding a freshly baked cake. Or the chap who had a threesome in college but (tune down, tune down) the girls where nothing special, and the one who outright announced that he banged three (or four, don't remember) hotties in a hotel room at the same time.

All of this, ladies and gentleman, not because they're handsome like Zac Efron on steroids or own a billion worth of start-ups in San Francisco, and not because they have a fervid imagination and a compelling, if formulaic, writing style. No, it's all thanks to..."game".

And just like at the movies, in the space of a few paragraphs the story gets excited, climaxes and jizzes and peters out into the usual, predictable nugget of wisdom: all girls are sluts and deserve nothing more than animalistic sex, let's learn game so we can punish more of them before they hurt us, it's all society/feminism/Wall Street's fault, we're the modern Knight Templars of masculinity, etc.

I mean, opinions are opinions, even if they look extreme, fascist, paradoxical, monstrous. You would have to work a bit to convince me, but I am prepared to concede that even Stormfront.org and Peter Andrew Nolan's hate sites have a right to exist. But if said authors always, and I mean 101% of the time, have to resort to decorating such meagre kernels of "truth" with all sort of rotting fictional pulp just to make their argument look nicer and stronger, than I find it really ridiculous.

If smart, rational people like you, ABCDavid and a few others here admit to respecting the PUA movement and their hacks on the basis of this poorly-concocted ideas and associated mythology, I have nothing against it, so far they succeed in inspiring you to be better people, more successful and less fearful when interacting with other people. Be it. All religions are basically fairy tales designed to teach the basic facts of life (and afterlife) to the simple minds of yesteryear, and encourage them to be better human beings.

What I find intellectual dishonest and unforgivable is when I see that a lot of this narrative is not about self-improvement, finding the right kind of woman for a given young man, being more compassionate and empathic, and the lot. A lot of this narrative is venomous! It's about pitting young men and young women against each other, as if all the loneliness, lack of genuine emotions and expression
that goes on globally weren't enough. It's about naming and shaming fat girls, skinny girls, single moms, girls who had more than 2 boyfriends, girls who f**k too much, girls who f**k too little, lazy bums on welfare and career slickers, girls who get raped and get who simulate rape.

I don't know if you realised it, but Roosh recently touched the moral nadir of the "industry" by twisting the UCSB shooting, and the killing of 6 innocent young people, into another marketing pitch for how "game" could have fulfilled his obscene sense of entitlement and ultimately "saved lives".

Maybe it's something that only an American can (and will) understand. Maybe you guys are nurtured with the idea that all human relationships are antagonistic, from business to love, and what you have or get is always at someone else's expense. As it is, it's beyond me.

[S_Parc]

I don't know if you realised it, but Roosh recently touched the moral nadir of the "industry" by twisting the UCSB shooting, and the killing of 6 innocent young people, into another marketing pitch for how "game" could have fulfilled his obscene sense of entitlement and ultimately "saved lives".

Maybe it's something that only an American can (and will) understand. Maybe you guys are nurtured with the idea that all human relationships are antagonistic, from business to love, and what you have or get is always at someone else's expense. As it is, it's beyond me.

I think the idea is more that relationships tend toward antagonism, over time.

Why do you think that certain couples get jealous, when they discover that Mel and I had known each other since college?

I think it's as simple as the fact that they expect that their relationship will barely survive the year, nevermind blossom over a decade and half. So while on a cross country skiing trip this past winter, Mel and I were laughing & having fun throughout the entire weekend, whereas after a day into the journey, the other couple were already bickering about stuff.

[publicduende]

I think the idea is more that relationships tend toward antagonism, over time.

That's not necessarily true. In the average relationship yes, sexual tension disappears, the mortgage is being paid, kids are growing up and the need for more, or something different and exciting, steps in and reignites the tension. He cheats on her, she does the same or craves for a bigger house or more wardrobe, etc.

That doesn't mean that the relationship should be thought as a confrontation to win or lose from the onset, indeed from dating stage. The boy and the girl play a different role, they lead and follow at different stages, exactly like in a well choreographed dance.

Why do you think that certain couples get jealous, when they discover that Mel and I had known each other since college?

I like that you're happy with Mel, and you never miss a chance to remind us. Yet, I guess you're a bit far from the average young couple. You are absolutely right, the absence of sexual tension makes an ocean of difference. But the same can be said about a great friendship, a bromance.

[green1976]

That article isn't so much about PUA as it is about Red Pill. And, aside from probably a few exaggerations, is mostly likely a true story. This is the prime narrative of TRP/Manosphere, and I've seen it with my own eyes.

I think ABC David meant to say that he supports men who discover and swallow the red pill, because it's a game changer, a life saver.

This writer matured into his 30s, has become successful, sees the naivete of his younger days, the sad truth of gender dynamics in America and American women, and is now confidently standing above the fray, living life on his own terms and reaping some good, sweet results. Good for him, seriously. Better than remaining blue pill, going crazy and taking a gun and shooting a dozen random people.

Yes, Game is a big part of his success. Like another poster said, Game can be very useful to a great many men, if understood and used correctly. This is why I actually find myself having a bit of a growing respect for Roosh V. The guy may be a douchebag and hasn't left many women any better, but it's not like he's just Mystery 2.0 He's Red Pill and is man enough to call things the way he sees it. He provides insights on topics that other PUAs would never touch in the first place. Men can really benefit and make better, life-improving decisions if they can internalize red pill and develop some Game to complement themselves.

At the beginning i found the red pill stuff quite interesting but now it's getting more and more trivial.
These guys use the red pill expression as an excommunication spell where they have the true and the others are the blue dumb pill guys.
Now others than in the Roosh forum are using the red pill expression in the same way.
I'm red pill and you are not lol
I was thinking to invent others shades of pills to put some more possibility.
Somebody shouldn't be only red or blue pill..you can be a purple pill for example.

I'm not particulary against game but we have to define what is game exactly?
What is true is i'm quit against gaming women in a country like the US because in my opinion it is waisted time and it's pushing up the ego of these little princess.
Maybe game can be used in Latin America or SEA.
These skills have to be done in a cautious way because i believe it can push up the entitlement in some women.

What they would say for a guy who goes only to Pattaya to f**k hookers,don't game at home and don't date because he considers relationships flawed?
Is this guy considered red or blue pill?
What they would say for a guy who despise or thinks only looser goes abroad to f**k hookers and put all his energy to game in the US getting some mediocre bangs but f***ing more than the ones who don't game..is he red or blue pill for them?

[fightforlove]

I think, broadly speaking, "Red Pill" is any man who has realized and come to terms with REALITY of dating, sex, relationships, male and female nature. How he responds is all up to him. Staying in America? Going abroad? Finding a foreign bride? Fornicating with American club sluts? MGTOW? Entirely up to him. Red Pill simply refers to men who have awakened from the stupor that American media/culture keeps them under. Red Pill men are aware of how messed up gender and dating dynamics are in America and they do whatever it takes to operate outside of that system.

I used to hate Game and consider it immature and obnoxious. I actually still do think most of it is immature and aimed at a very young (18-23) demographic. But magic tricks, peacocking and silly lingo aside, the core philosophies of Game hold true. Red Pill. You just have to tailor your delivery to your own style/maturity level and desired targets. Game I think is essential, probably even on foreign women to certain degree. Heck, you even have to keep gaming a woman after you've married her to keep her faithful.

[KokujinKrusader]

I do not worship at the PUA alter, and I believe that much of it is BS (PUA tend to be tall, decent-looking White guys; I'll believe in PUA when short Black men use the tactics to pull 6's and up in Taiwan every weekend), but if these tactics can work for you, why not use them?

The world is a cruel place with winners and losers. Knowing this, I'd rather be the winner than the loser; if someone has to lose, why do I have to volunteer?