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Warning! Free speech does NOT mean zero behavior standards!

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Warning! Free speech does NOT mean zero behavior standards!

Postby Winston » Sat Jun 14, 2014 9:46 am

Just a heads up to you all and a warning to some of you here:

Our free speech policy here does NOT mean that unlimited bad behavior, rudeness and tactlessness is allowed. It does not mean that there are zero standards of behavior here. Those who think it does are abusing free speech. So please don't get that idea. Just because we are very open here about free speech does NOT mean that anyone is free to abuse it. There's got to be some standards of behavior here within reason. It's a moral obligation as well.

For example, Repatriate tends to go over the line with his extreme mockery sometimes. It's ok to say that I'm fat or overweight. But he rubs it with extreme insults, colorful words and descriptions, all in a mean-spirited manner designed to inflate and exaggerate his insults for maximum effect.

That's very insensitive and mean-spirited for sure. Especially when it's directed at someone who's never wronged him.

Even some of our veteran members like Rock show tactless behavior and bad people skills sometimes. People like him have personality defects and it shows in their posts. For example, just because I get scammed by extreme pushiness and aggressiveness under pressure, and given no time to think, does NOT mean that I deserve to be ridiculed and blamed for that. People like him do not get it, do not see the big picture, and are not sensitive about such situations.

Important point: If a man is stressed and angry, it is NOT wise to make things worse by mocking him and ridiculing him (like Repatriate and Rock did). Only people with low EQ, bad people skills, and a lack of tact and sensitivity (like Repatriate and Rock) would do such a thing. Mature adults with good sense do not do that. Think about it.

Other forum moderators do not take such mean-spirited insults. So why should I?

We need to enforce some standards of civility here. Extreme bad behavior and rude, insensitive, tactless behavior should not be allowed without penalty. There has to be some kind of boundary when it comes to that.

Tact is an important part of having people skills. And that's true here too.

There is a difference between constructive criticism and nasty ridicule and insults that are over the top and cross the line. Free speech does not mean anything goes. Some of you are abusing our free speech policy.

Therefore, the moderators here reserve the right to ban or issue warnings at their discretion when such boundaries of civility are transgressed repeatedly.

Sometimes insults are deserved when the person's behavior has earned it. Sometimes they are not. The ones that are done in a mean-spirited manner (as Repatriate often does) are distasteful and over the line.

Most people are sensitive in some way. So they deserve to be treated with some tact and sensitivity.

Try to grow up and understand that.

Hope you all understand and agree.
Last edited by Winston on Sat Jun 14, 2014 9:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby MarcosZeitola » Sat Jun 14, 2014 9:53 am

Excellent points.

Another thing you may want to look into is those members who call other members "subhumans" because of their race and sex with them "bestiality". Certainly that sort of behaviour is also undesirable as we are a pretty diverse bunch. ;)

People need to keep it civil. We're all in the same boat here and we all have largely the same goals, hopes and dreams so why all the in-fighting and rudeness?
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Postby Cornfed » Sat Jun 14, 2014 9:59 am

MarcosZeitola wrote:Excellent points.

Another thing you may want to look into is those members who call other members "subhumans" because of their race and sex with them "bestiality".

I'm simply expressing an opinion, which comes under the heading of free speech. What would be a more civil way to express the same opinion?
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Postby Winston » Sat Jun 14, 2014 10:03 am

MarcosZeitola wrote:Excellent points.

Another thing you may want to look into is those members who call other members "subhumans" because of their race and sex with them "bestiality". Certainly that sort of behaviour is also undesirable as we are a pretty diverse bunch. ;)

People need to keep it civil. We're all in the same boat here and we all have largely the same goals, hopes and dreams so why all the in-fighting and rudeness?


Yes true. But it's hard to monitor everything. I only know what I see. So if such insults are given, you should report it to a moderator via PM or something.

I guess some people are bullies and derive pleasure by belittling others. It's kind of dysfunctional, but we have such types here too. Not all bullies are obvious and direct though. Some are subtle, like Rock is sometimes. After a while, you begin to sense a pattern, albeit a subtle one.

Either way, if someone is suffering a personal stressful event, it's very unwise and tactless to make it worse by mocking or ridiculing him unfairly. Wise people know that. But Rock and Repatriate clearly have low EQ when it comes to that kind of thing. They also make wrong and false assumptions in their assessments sometimes too.

Some people are victim-blaming. It seems to be in their nature.

But when I see that people around me are tactful and civil, and then come here and see such extreme bad tactless behavior from people like Rock and Repatriate, it really ticks my hide.
Check out the latest posts in our blog The Happier Abroaders.

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Postby MarcosZeitola » Sat Jun 14, 2014 10:05 am

Cornfed wrote:
MarcosZeitola wrote:Excellent points.

Another thing you may want to look into is those members who call other members "subhumans" because of their race and sex with them "bestiality".

I'm simply expressing an opinion, which comes under the heading of free speech. What would be a more civil way to express the same opinion?


A more civil way would be to change your rotten opinion and admit that all races of people are still ultimately people, and that they aren't less then you. Especially not when they have more dating success then you, which makes you come across sour and bitter.

To say certain members here aren't even human is incredibly messed up. Such an opinion cannot be voiced in a civil way as it is extremely uncivil anyway you look at it.
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Postby Winston » Sat Jun 14, 2014 10:07 am

Cornfed wrote:
MarcosZeitola wrote:Excellent points.

Another thing you may want to look into is those members who call other members "subhumans" because of their race and sex with them "bestiality".

I'm simply expressing an opinion, which comes under the heading of free speech. What would be a more civil way to express the same opinion?


Because free speech does not mean anything goes. There's such a thing as bad behavior, which is tolerated to some extent, but when it's extreme, it becomes an issue. Free speech does not mean that it is ok to abuse it. You gotta have some degree of tactfulness too.

Everyone gets angry and has some personality defects of some sort. But extremely bad personalities and rude tactless comments should have some type of limit.

Unlimited bad behavior is not a good idea you know. Think about it. There has to be a line somewhere. This is common sense.

You cannot have zero tact in human relations, not even online human relations. There has to be SOME degree of tact at least.
Last edited by Winston on Sat Jun 14, 2014 10:11 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby MarcosZeitola » Sat Jun 14, 2014 10:09 am

Winston wrote:
MarcosZeitola wrote:Excellent points.

Another thing you may want to look into is those members who call other members "subhumans" because of their race and sex with them "bestiality". Certainly that sort of behaviour is also undesirable as we are a pretty diverse bunch. ;)

People need to keep it civil. We're all in the same boat here and we all have largely the same goals, hopes and dreams so why all the in-fighting and rudeness?


Yes true. But it's hard to monitor everything. I only know what I see. So if such insults are given, you should report it to a moderator via PM or something.

I guess some people are bullies and derive pleasure by belittling others. It's kind of dysfunctional, but we have such types here too. Not all bullies are obvious and direct though. Some are subtle, like Rock is sometimes. After a while, you begin to sense a pattern, albeit a subtle one.

Either way, if someone is suffering a personal stressful event, it's very unwise and tactless to make it worse by mocking or ridiculing him unfairly. Wise people know that. But Rock and Repatriate clearly have low EQ when it comes to that kind of thing. They also make wrong and false assumptions in their assessments sometimes too.

Some people are victim-blaming. It seems to be in their nature.

But when I see that people around me are tactful and civil, and then come here and see such extreme bad tactless behavior from people like Rock and Repatriate, it really ticks my hide.


Certain people are just disappointing overall. It's a shame as this place should be a welcoming and helpful environment for those seeking to escape their miserable lives in the Western world and travel to countries where they can find love, affection and adventure. It has become clear to me that some people simply don't wish to be helpful at all, instead they derive pleasure from talking down on others.

Maybe it makes them feel better about themselves? Who knows. But some people such as Cornfed have repeatedly pushed the bounderies of good taste and continue to do so. Free speech is a good thing, and of vital importance. But freedom of speech does not mean people should dehumanize and deeply offend others just because they can. That's tasteless and uncalled for.
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Postby eurobrat » Sat Jun 14, 2014 10:14 am

MarcosZeitola wrote: It's a shame as this place should be a welcoming and helpful environment for those seeking to escape their miserable lives in the Western world and travel to countries where they can find love, affection and adventure. It has become clear to me that some people simply don't wish to be helpful at all, instead they derive pleasure from talking down on others.


I really have never found this place welcoming or the members ever united on anything except North American female bashing. Which if most of them did leave the country as I have they would find the North American females to actually be the better crop of women in this world.
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Postby Winston » Sat Jun 14, 2014 10:17 am

MarcosZeitola wrote:Certain people are just disappointing overall. It's a shame as this place should be a welcoming and helpful environment for those seeking to escape their miserable lives in the Western world and travel to countries where they can find love, affection and adventure. It has become clear to me that some people simply don't wish to be helpful at all, instead they derive pleasure from talking down on others.

Maybe it makes them feel better about themselves? Who knows. But some people such as Cornfed have repeatedly pushed the bounderies of good taste and continue to do so. Free speech is a good thing, and of vital importance. But freedom of speech does not mean people should dehumanize and deeply offend others just because they can. That's tasteless and uncalled for.


Yes true. And Cornfed has been warned many times. He has even been temporarily banned before. So he has received some penalties. But some like his posts too.

Maybe we should have a poll to see whether he should be banned or not?

We cannot change Cornfed. He is what he is. All we can do is either temporarily ban him, or permanently ban him. We are still on the fence about that.

But the main point here is: There has to be SOME standard of tactfulness here, even on a forum. There cannot be zero tactfulness. There cannot be unlimited rudeness allowed either. This is common sense. People should not have to take unnecessary insults and mockery just because some people derive sick pleasure from it. It's morally wrong as well.
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Postby Cornfed » Sat Jun 14, 2014 10:25 am

MarcosZeitola wrote:A more civil way would be to change your rotten opinion

Ah, so your objection has nothing to do with civility at all. You simply want to censor opinions that you disagree with. If you are opposed to free speech why not stay on politically correct forums?
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Postby Winston » Sat Jun 14, 2014 10:33 am

Cornfed wrote:
MarcosZeitola wrote:A more civil way would be to change your rotten opinion

Ah, so your objection has nothing to do with civility at all. You simply want to censor opinions that you disagree with. If you are opposed to free speech why not stay on politically correct forums?


Marcos,
That's unrealistic. You cannot expect one to change their opinion on such matters. You can't force him to be colorblind or have zero biases when it comes to race. We all have our own biases and prejudices. There will never be zero racism.

But Cornfed can express his opinion in a more tactful manner. He has a right to be honest and to have free speech, but he cannot be allowed unlimited rudeness or zero tactfulness. That's not realistic or wise.

This is a gray area. The moderators will have to exercise their judgment on this matter.
Last edited by Winston on Sat Jun 14, 2014 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby MarcosZeitola » Sat Jun 14, 2014 10:33 am

Winston wrote:Yes true. And Cornfed has been warned many times. He has even been temporarily banned before. So he has received some penalties. But some like his posts too.

Maybe we should have a poll to see whether he should be banned or not?

We cannot change Cornfed. He is what he is. All we can do is either temporarily ban him, or permanently ban him. We are still on the fence about that.

But the main point here is: There has to be SOME standard of tactfulness here, even on a forum. There cannot be zero tactfulness. There cannot be unlimited rudeness allowed either. This is common sense. People should not have to take unnecessary insults and mockery just because some people derive sick pleasure from it. It's morally wrong as well.


A poll would be best, yes. To get some feedback from the rest of the community and maintain a sense of democracy. If a majority of members wishes him to stay then we should accept that as well but some more opinions would be very welcome.

Cornfed wrote:
MarcosZeitola wrote:A more civil way would be to change your rotten opinion

Ah, so your objection has nothing to do with civility at all. You simply want to censor opinions that you disagree with. If you are opposed to free speech why not stay on politically correct forums?


Because I am not politically correct. I have opinions on women that are more traditional then most people. I am old-fashioned in some ways, but I am also open-minded. I am not politically correct... but that does not mean I am a racist, uncivil or down-right rude for no good reason. I don't consider myself as below anyone else, nor above. We're all only human. I just don't believe once you have known true love for someone of another race you can ever be racist again.

I used to have some racist views myself. Then I fell in love with a girl who wasn't white and guess what? All my views more or less evaporated into nothingness like snow in the sun. It would be hypocrisy to be with a girl you consider less then yourself knowing you'd trade her in for a white woman any chance you could get, simply because your beliefs of racial purity make it seem you "settled" for less then you deserve. Which is unbelievably messed up.
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Postby MarcosZeitola » Sat Jun 14, 2014 10:38 am

Winston wrote:Marcos,
That's unrealistic. You cannot expect one to change their opinion on such matters. You can't force him to be colorblind or have zero biases when it comes to race. We all have our own biases and prejudices. There will never be zero racism.

But Cornfed can express his opinion in a more tactful manner. We cannot have zero tact or unlimited rudeness allowed here. That's not realistic or wise.

This is a gray area. The moderators will have to exercise their judgment on this matter.


We all have our prejudices, that is very true. I have my own as well. I do try to have a certain tact with it, however. And getting to know the people I used to look down upon has really helped as well. Hatred loses its power when you get to truly know those you used to hate. Suddenly, it all seems futile and pointless.

You suggested a poll should be made. This would probably be the best way to get input from the community. There are people who agree with him, but I have a feeling they are probably a minority? There's only one way to find out. If the poll shows that most people wish him to stay or even respect his views on a certain level, then we should listen to that consensus as well. But it may be a good thing to ask others about their opinions as well.

That would be the most democratic and classy thing to do. And there's a good chance that he would even get enough support to stay.
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Postby Cornfed » Sat Jun 14, 2014 10:40 am

MarcosZeitola wrote:Because I am not politically correct. I have opinions on women that are more traditional then most people. I am old-fashioned in some ways

OK, and on most forums you would be censored and idiots would say you were sexist, hated women, were deliberately being offensive to women etc. And you would maintain that that was wrong and your views should be tolerated as they are here. But then when someone expresses politically incorrect views that you don't agree with you immediately indulge in the very same behavior you would condemn in others. You are not going to learn anything or develop your worldview this way.
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Postby Winston » Sat Jun 14, 2014 10:41 am

eurobrat wrote:
MarcosZeitola wrote: It's a shame as this place should be a welcoming and helpful environment for those seeking to escape their miserable lives in the Western world and travel to countries where they can find love, affection and adventure. It has become clear to me that some people simply don't wish to be helpful at all, instead they derive pleasure from talking down on others.


I really have never found this place welcoming or the members ever united on anything except North American female bashing. Which if most of them did leave the country as I have they would find the North American females to actually be the better crop of women in this world.


Well many of us have gone abroad and disagree with you 100 percent. If you want to come back to America and deal with spoiled rotten women who don't need you and don't want to be approached, then come back to America then.
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