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No wonder why Elliot Rodger lost it-he was in narcissismvil

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Postby MarcosZeitola » Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:53 am

fschmidt wrote:Anyone who calls Elliot Rodger a sociopath has not idea what they are talking about. American women love sociopaths. Any man who is a sociopath in America will be swamped by women. And anyone who calls Elliot Rodger a sociopath is just a typical member of modern culture, hurling insults without having any idea what they are even saying.


Oh but he was! It speaks from his every line in that Manifesto of his. He was a cold-hearted killer, plain and simple. You say sociopaths are swamped by women? You may be right, there! Spree shooters who do not commit suicide after the act tend to receive dozens of love letters in jail. This happened with Holmes, Breivik and others. There's quite a few women out there who have an obsession with "changing" or "saving" a guy who's clearly no good. I reckon it's mostly an ego thing, but part of it is simply that a person who is 'bad' is exciting to them.

Had Elliot Rodger not killed himself, he would have had plenty of visits in jail, had his jail allowed conjugal visits. He wasn't that looking and as soon as his videos and pics aired, after the attack, girls started calling him "handsome", or cute, and say things like it's a shame he is dead now.

So yeah... Elliot Rodger is definitely a sociopath. And his being a sociopath is why now, after his death, he is receiving such attention.
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Postby fschmidt » Sat Jun 21, 2014 8:49 am

MarcosZeitola wrote:Oh but he was! It speaks from his every line in that Manifesto of his. He was a cold-hearted killer, plain and simple. You say sociopaths are swamped by women? You may be right, there! Spree shooters who do not commit suicide after the act tend to receive dozens of love letters in jail. This happened with Holmes, Breivik and others. There's quite a few women out there who have an obsession with "changing" or "saving" a guy who's clearly no good. I reckon it's mostly an ego thing, but part of it is simply that a person who is 'bad' is exciting to them.

Had Elliot Rodger not killed himself, he would have had plenty of visits in jail, had his jail allowed conjugal visits. He wasn't that looking and as soon as his videos and pics aired, after the attack, girls started calling him "handsome", or cute, and say things like it's a shame he is dead now.

So yeah... Elliot Rodger is definitely a sociopath. And his being a sociopath is why now, after his death, he is receiving such attention.

I don't know why I am even responding to this, but anyway... Do you know what a sociopath/psychopath is? Hint, start with the Hare Psychopathy Checklist:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hare_Psychopathy_Checklist
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Postby MarcosZeitola » Sat Jun 21, 2014 8:57 am

fschmidt wrote:
MarcosZeitola wrote:Oh but he was! It speaks from his every line in that Manifesto of his. He was a cold-hearted killer, plain and simple. You say sociopaths are swamped by women? You may be right, there! Spree shooters who do not commit suicide after the act tend to receive dozens of love letters in jail. This happened with Holmes, Breivik and others. There's quite a few women out there who have an obsession with "changing" or "saving" a guy who's clearly no good. I reckon it's mostly an ego thing, but part of it is simply that a person who is 'bad' is exciting to them.

Had Elliot Rodger not killed himself, he would have had plenty of visits in jail, had his jail allowed conjugal visits. He wasn't that looking and as soon as his videos and pics aired, after the attack, girls started calling him "handsome", or cute, and say things like it's a shame he is dead now.

So yeah... Elliot Rodger is definitely a sociopath. And his being a sociopath is why now, after his death, he is receiving such attention.

I don't know why I am even responding to this, but anyway... Do you know what a sociopath/psychopath is? Hint, start with the Hare Psychopathy Checklist:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hare_Psychopathy_Checklist


I know the checklist. You have to admit he checks some of the boxes...

Grandiosity? Check. Lack of remorse? Check. Pathological lying? Check. Poor behavioral controls? Check (he was an alcoholic and had the tendency to assault people, throw drinks on them or insult them when he felt jealous). Which brings us at... impulsiveness. Check. Very impulsive guy. Denial? Check. Always put the blame outside himself while never changing or challenging his own behavior. Parasitic lifestyle? Check. Lived off parents, refused to work even when given a job. He also had a severe lack of realistic long-term goals and a complete failure to accept responsibility for own actions.

Yes. He is pretty much a sociopath. He checks a lot of the boxes.
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Postby fschmidt » Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:14 am

MarcosZeitola wrote:I know the checklist. You have to admit he checks some of the boxes...

Grandiosity? Check. Lack of remorse? Check. Pathological lying? Check. Poor behavioral controls? Check (he was an alcoholic and had the tendency to assault people, throw drinks on them or insult them when he felt jealous). Which brings us at... impulsiveness. Check. Very impulsive guy. Denial? Check. Always put the blame outside himself while never changing or challenging his own behavior. Parasitic lifestyle? Check. Lived off parents, refused to work even when given a job. He also had a severe lack of realistic long-term goals and a complete failure to accept responsibility for own actions.

Yes. He is pretty much a sociopath. He checks a lot of the boxes.

The only thing on the list he had is grandiosity. Remorse? He had plenty of remorse about things worth having remorse about. There is no reason to have remorse about killing Americans. Pathological lying? Absolutely not. His story is very honest. Poor behavioral controls? No. He controlled his behavior for years. He wasn't an alcoholic. You are taking one isolated incident and lying to make it a pattern which it wasn't. Impulsiveness? No, he planned the murder with great detail. Denial? No, he saw the truth. The blame did belong on American society which deserves nothing but total destruction. Parasitic lifestyle? No, at least not until he gave up.

It is modern culture that is psychopathic. Normal people in modern culture check off most of the list, and this includes lying about Elliot Rodger to justify their disgusting culture. There was a mainstream video I recently watched on Elliot Rodger here:

http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo ... cumentary/

And you can read my comment in the comment section.
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Postby eurobrat » Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:32 am

gsjackson wrote:
Dude, dude, dude. You have no idea how young you are. Take care of yourself and you can be in the game for decades to come, if you want to. But you'll need to lose this attitude. And honestly, grey hair just doesn't seem to be a handicap. I'm about 30-40 percent grey now, and haven't found that it makes any difference, even with women in their twenties.


Thanks guy, I really appreciate it. I have just gone into panic mode after my year here in Italy, pretty much all the Italians my age here are Married, in a serious relationship. Meanwhile I haven't been able to get a date with any Italian only Albanians and other foreigners. I'm leaving Italy soon and it isn't because of just girls but a slew of different things.

gsjackson wrote:On Italian women, a couple of points, and I could be talking out my a** here because I've spent a total of three days in the country. First point: I wasn't impressed. The women had this trashy, vulgar look. Didn't see one that was appealing.


This is correct, and while there are some cute ones here that don't have the trashy and vulgar look, they're most likely taken by 25/26ish, guys here aren't dumb and if they see a good girl who's an 8 or so they move quickly and diligently. Being the newcomer I have found out that Italian girls are not very cultured or educated. They are also not risk adverse to dating non-italian guys, meanwhile the Italian guys on the other hand are the exact opposite maybe because they are forced too.

gsjackson wrote:Secondly, I can recall when a female friend of mine went to Italy thirty years ago, and noted how the men would whistle and hoot as women walked by, grab asses sometimes. The women would act pissed, but actually liked it. Being a staunch anti-feminist, my friend found all of this very admirable. Now, I don't know if men still behave like this in Italy, but the women's behavior may still reflect the residue of this culture. They strut around haughtily and expect men to come strong and overcome their resistance, all of it, of course, being a lot of theatricality and role playing. Coming strong and resilient is not something that comes naturally to most American men, and with you current attitude I'm guessing that's not your M.O. right now.


It's true that the Italy we knew growing up, vacationing here and seeing it in the movies no longer exists. Italian guys are emasculated as much as French, American, Canadian etc...

I don't mind a strong approach with confidence to back it up, but I haven't been able to get past the social circles part here in Italy.

99.9% of girls have a boyfriend at my age and I don't believe in f***ing around with some dudes chick. For the reason that if I am successful, I will then know the girl is garbage and would do the same to me if the right opportunity arises. I would rather f**k some geeky looking 19 year old Italian girl who's chubby and speaks barely any of my language than f.uck around with some dudes ragazza.

So it's a double edge sword. But none the less it's pretty much impossible for an expat to date an Italian girl as you have to be formally introduced by one of the girls friends or family members for her to even notice you. Making guy friends to try and get into a social circle is also challenging. The guys here are kind of standoffish and seem to only like to use me for free english lessons (since it costs a lot of money here to get talk time in).

The social programming of the Italian matrix is pretty strong. It's definitely too strong for an expat to break into without some heavy artillery to make a breakthrough into the social circles.
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Postby publicduende » Sat Jun 21, 2014 1:37 pm

eurobrat wrote:It's true that the Italy we knew growing up, vacationing here and seeing it in the movies no longer exists. Italian guys are emasculated as much as French, American, Canadian etc...

I don't mind a strong approach with confidence to back it up, but I haven't been able to get past the social circles part here in Italy.

99.9% of girls have a boyfriend at my age and I don't believe in f***ing around with some dudes chick. For the reason that if I am successful, I will then know the girl is garbage and would do the same to me if the right opportunity arises. I would rather f**k some geeky looking 19 year old Italian girl who's chubby and speaks barely any of my language than f.uck around with some dudes ragazza.

So it's a double edge sword. But none the less it's pretty much impossible for an expat to date an Italian girl as you have to be formally introduced by one of the girls friends or family members for her to even notice you. Making guy friends to try and get into a social circle is also challenging. The guys here are kind of standoffish and seem to only like to use me for free english lessons (since it costs a lot of money here to get talk time in).

The social programming of the Italian matrix is pretty strong. It's definitely too strong for an expat to break into without some heavy artillery to make a breakthrough into the social circles.


Well, some of the things you say are true but, come on, saying that we are (as a people!) "emasculated"...you can't be serious! :) Perhaps the problem is, as you say, the fact they you couldn't "crack the code" and join a social circle where you would have had easier access to the kind of quality girls you desired. We Italians are indeed quite cliquish and tend to stick with our own kind, but that's only up until we have a chance, even the slightest chance, to go abroad and actually know the world, and how beautiful it is us to mingle, explore and discover.

Tony, as we discussed countless times, I think the crux of the matter is quite simply something we both profoundly agree on: most of the "better", as in "cultured, open-minded, adventurous, risk takers", Italians are not found in our homeland. And considering that we are pretty much a people of migrants, and have been so for centuries, it's not such a bad thing after all, that you'll have a better chance to meet a quality Italian young woman in London or New York, than in your average northern Italian province town.

As for the social circles, as they say, when in Rome do as Romans do... It shouldn't be a scandal to you, that you need some form of introduction to be trusted in a circle of friends. The good news is that it isn't as hard as you are convinced it is. Oh well, your next European adventure will give you the taste of a large city, and much of that drama will be gone. ;)
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Postby eurobrat » Sat Jun 21, 2014 2:08 pm

publicduende wrote:Well, some of the things you say are true but, come on, saying that we are (as a people!) "emasculated"...you can't be serious! :)


You know the men are emasculated and the women not all but a good majority now act like men. Also you know the same social issues that exist in the US, Britain, France etc. exist right here in Italy.

publicduende wrote:Perhaps the problem is, as you say, the fact they you couldn't "crack the code" and join a social circle where you would have had easier access to the kind of quality girls you desired. We Italians are indeed quite cliquish and tend to stick with our own kind, but that's only up until we have a chance, even the slightest chance, to go abroad and actually know the world, and how beautiful it is us to mingle, explore and discover.


This is true and the fact is I didn't have the tools to crack the safe open to get to the gold. Had a had some family here in Italy or even friends here, I would have been better equipped to meet girls and date. Sad fact is a year here and absolutely no progress. It would have been much easier for me to get dates had I just stayed in Kansas or LA.

publicduende wrote:Tony, as we discussed countless times, I think the crux of the matter is quite simply something we both profoundly agree on: most of the "better", as in "cultured, open-minded, adventurous, risk takers", Italians are not found in our homeland. And considering that we are pretty much a people of migrants, and have been so for centuries, it's not such a bad thing after all, that you'll have a better chance to meet a quality Italian young woman in London or New York, than in your average northern Italian province town.


This is something I did not know. I always figured if I just showed up and played my cards right staying employed with money in my pocket, being in good shape, dressing nicely and being polite, funny, courteous and exotic being from the US and with a different mother tongue but with an Italian passport and ethnic background then some girl might have found me interesting to at least go on a few dates for beers and pizza.

Well I was flat out wrong on that one and I failed massively here in Italy.
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Postby ntm1972 » Sat Jun 21, 2014 2:59 pm

MarcosZeitola wrote:
fschmidt wrote:
MarcosZeitola wrote:Oh but he was! It speaks from his every line in that Manifesto of his. He was a cold-hearted killer, plain and simple. You say sociopaths are swamped by women? You may be right, there! Spree shooters who do not commit suicide after the act tend to receive dozens of love letters in jail. This happened with Holmes, Breivik and others. There's quite a few women out there who have an obsession with "changing" or "saving" a guy who's clearly no good. I reckon it's mostly an ego thing, but part of it is simply that a person who is 'bad' is exciting to them.

Had Elliot Rodger not killed himself, he would have had plenty of visits in jail, had his jail allowed conjugal visits. He wasn't that looking and as soon as his videos and pics aired, after the attack, girls started calling him "handsome", or cute, and say things like it's a shame he is dead now.

So yeah... Elliot Rodger is definitely a sociopath. And his being a sociopath is why now, after his death, he is receiving such attention.

I don't know why I am even responding to this, but anyway... Do you know what a sociopath/psychopath is? Hint, start with the Hare Psychopathy Checklist:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hare_Psychopathy_Checklist


I know the checklist. You have to admit he checks some of the boxes...

Grandiosity? Check. Lack of remorse? Check. Pathological lying? Check. Poor behavioral controls? Check (he was an alcoholic and had the tendency to assault people, throw drinks on them or insult them when he felt jealous). Which brings us at... impulsiveness. Check. Very impulsive guy. Denial? Check. Always put the blame outside himself while never changing or challenging his own behavior. Parasitic lifestyle? Check. Lived off parents, refused to work even when given a job. He also had a severe lack of realistic long-term goals and a complete failure to accept responsibility for own actions.

Yes. He is pretty much a sociopath. He checks a lot of the boxes.


True, most sociopaths are natural-born lady killers. However, an alienated sociopath would not necessarily be regarded as a "catch" unless and until he fulfilled his violent fantasies.

The following quotes are taken from http://depressiond.com/sociopath-sociopathic-personality-disorder/#15, under the heading "The Alienated Sociopath".

The absence of a nurturant parent during a critical period may prevent the development of the normal capacity for love and attachment that, as social animals, we all presumably possess.... There are children who seldom or never have nurturant, loving, or happy interactions with other human beings or whose approaches to their parent are unpredictably punished so that they become extinguished. Such a child will not develop the prosocial components of socialization and their inability to relate emotionally to other people makes his or her adult adjustment problematic.


Some alienated individuals, feeling rejected by the community or unable to succeed according to its rules, repudiate the society of others and adopt a hostile, aggressive, or destructive attitude toward the group and all its members. It is a little recognized truth that feeling angry is more agreeable than feeling frightened or sad or depressed.


Freud speaks somewhere about the individual who feels disadvantaged by appearance or physical disability, by social or class origin, minority status, or in some other way and who rationalizes his failure to follow the social rules on the grounds that, having been thus cheated at the outset, those rules do not apply to him. It is an interesting and important fact that most of the diverse criminal types suggested here do tend to justify their conduct in one way or another, at least to themselves.


It seems as good a guess as any that Rodger was an alienated sociopath who consummated his revenge fantasies at the expense of his own life.
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Postby SilverEnergy » Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:40 pm

Not all sociopaths are successful with women.
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Postby MarcosZeitola » Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:52 pm

SilverEnergy wrote:Not all sociopaths are successful with women.


Clearly not, as Elliot Rodger was unable to get his four inch saucer wet. The sociopaths who do well with women are usually handsome, out-going and they have an attitude of "I don't give a flying f*ck" which some women find irresistible. As a poster before you said, he was an isolated sociopath. And because of his isolation he had no success. Otherwise he would not have had trouble getting laid as he was not that bad looking, and he came from a rich family.
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Postby ntm1972 » Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:19 pm

MarcosZeitola wrote:Clearly not, as Elliot Rodger was unable to get his four inch saucer wet.


Come on, you can do better than that.

The evil that Rodger did had nothing to do with his penis size. There are a lot of four and five-inchers who get laid as often as the sevens and eights. We can be disgusted with Rodger's actions without resorting to shaming language that one would sooner expect to hear from a gaggle of catty women.

Equating manhood with penis size - as society generally does - is fallacious, harmful, and unworthy of anyone who lays claim to being both a rational and an ethical human being. And I write this as someone who, by any statistical measure, has nothing to worry about either in terms of length or girth, yet who long ago grew sick and tired of hoping to be viewed as a human dildo in order to get some action.

Making such statements, even in an offhanded manner, can detract from a proper morally-based condemnation of this evildoer.
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Postby Cornfed » Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:59 am

MarcosZeitola wrote:
fschmidt wrote:Anyone who calls Elliot Rodger a sociopath has not idea what they are talking about. American women love sociopaths. Any man who is a sociopath in America will be swamped by women. And anyone who calls Elliot Rodger a sociopath is just a typical member of modern culture, hurling insults without having any idea what they are even saying.


Oh but he was! It speaks from his every line in that Manifesto of his.

In what way exactly? It seemed to me that he wanted to live in a decent, non-psychopathic society. Obviously a preference for killing sluts and dirtbags is not psychopathic. If he were a psychopath you would expect females to be all over him because modern society rewards psychopaths.
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Postby Guyver » Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:06 pm

The funny thing is, there is more class and realness in the people from this video than I see in the people from either the American party video or Italian party videos:

http://youtu.be/6fVE8kSM43I
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Postby S_Parc » Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:48 pm

ntm1972 wrote:The following quotes are taken from http://depressiond.com/sociopath-sociopathic-personality-disorder/#15, under the heading "The Alienated Sociopath".


This entire essay is an aegis to cover any set of transgressions.

I grew up in a household with a whacked dad. And the thing which I'd noticed was that his worldview of what's right (himself and the British [plus American] Empire) vs what's wrong (everyone else, esp communists & gays) was the semi-imaginary world he'd live in.

And thus, he was not amendable to anything other than that grand vision. Now granted, he'd lost his marbles later in life, after having gotten married and a career, but if he didn't have the aforementioned attributes of a so-called successful man from society's pov, I could see him going out with a bang, believing that he's saving his country from the fabled 'Red' Menace.
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Postby ntm1972 » Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:19 pm

S_Parc wrote:
ntm1972 wrote:The following quotes are taken from http://depressiond.com/sociopath-sociopathic-personality-disorder/#15, under the heading "The Alienated Sociopath".


This entire essay is an aegis to cover any set of transgressions.

I grew up in a household with a whacked dad. And the thing which I'd noticed was that his worldview of what's right (himself and the British [plus American] Empire) vs what's wrong (everyone else, esp communists & gays) was the semi-imaginary world he'd live in.

And thus, he was not amendable to anything other than that grand vision. Now granted, he'd lost his marbles later in life, after having gotten married and a career, but if he didn't have the aforementioned attributes of a so-called successful man from society's pov, I could see him going out with a bang, believing that he's saving his country from the fabled 'Red' Menace.


Sociopaths are products of both nurture and nature. To offer just one example, Ted Bundy was already playing with knives at his aunt's expense at the tender age of three. Analyses such as those given in the depressiond.com link are attempts to explain bad behaviors after the fact, without necessarily absolving the perpetrators of responsibility.

In the end, each of us remains personally accountable for his actions. Just because the sociopath wants to blame everyone else but himself, doesn't mean he gets a free pass. It was incumbent upon Rodger to deal with his pain in an ethically acceptable manner. That he did not have a viable external support structure makes him no less culpable for his crimes.

You've often recounted your escape from your familial hell; I had my own version of perdition with which to deal. I grew up in a christian fundamentalist environment, and also went to a four-year christian college. I didn't lose my virginity until I was 23; when I tried at various times to deal with my sexual frustrations by masturbating, I was beaten by my mother and nearly expelled from said college. I had every excuse to 'snap', but I didn't, just as you didn't. What separates you and me from the Rodgers of the world? Conscience, vigilance, perspective, life experiences? Probably a combination of these and other factors.
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