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An Italian explains why not to go live in Italy.

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An Italian explains why not to go live in Italy.

Postby eurobrat » Wed Sep 03, 2014 1:05 pm

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Postby Jester » Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:53 pm

LOL!

+1

So THERE!!
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Postby Jester » Thu Sep 25, 2014 2:03 pm

"Pick a point and go to it."
-- Dr John Hunsucker, speaking about canoeing on Georgia's Lake Lanier, with its irregular shape, and 1000 miles of meandering shoreline
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Postby E Irizarry R&B Singer » Thu Sep 25, 2014 5:14 pm

OH SHIT! Ummm as much as I like you Public Duende, you need to admit Euro Brat was right for the most part.

EB got ducks lined up in a row!!!! Wow with this vid!!!
It's time to expatriate to evade your fate; it's time to expatriate before the barn door permanently closes on "US" sheep.
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Postby publicduende » Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:56 pm

LOL I have just come back home (gym + dinner with friends) and this is just what I needed to sweat off 50% of the red wine in my blood right now! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Joseph Safe here is lecturing us about the Monti government, the decline of Italy and even the fact that - heaven forbid - foreigners are no longer seen as gods from another planet. That's enough to scare away the most consummate fan of Fellini, Tuscan hill and the Milan figa...pardon, fashion show.

Dudes...do I have Italian Tourism Board tattooed on my (ample, my hairline is in a worse recession than 2012 Greece) forehead?

I am not luring anyone to study, work, live and even sightsee in Italy! I am very aware - with some arrogance, more aware than Eurobrat, J Safe and even Peter Andrew Nolan who commented on the video (coincidence?) - that Italy is in dire straits, and has been so for decades.

Corrupted and crony capitalism, political lobbies, lazy incompetent people at every level of our public institutions, lack of vision and innovation (and smart capital) in our managers and entrepreneurs - there's more than enough to make Il Bel Paese look like a second world country, in fact a second world with negative outlook, a submerging economy.

So why have I been ranting on EB's expat report thread, and now sound more eager to pick up a fight with him than a cockney mafia boy whose girlfriend has just been kicked in the nose before him?

Because, for how bad the situation is in Italy:

1) it's nowhere near as bad as EB depicts it, especially in the socialisation and dating department, which is why he moved over there in the first place;
2) the negatives of Italy are to a large extent the negatives of Europe as a whole, so the "nowhere left to hide" is very much applicable from Como to Chernobyl, Milan to Madrid, Berlin to Bari.
3) the stuff that he is boasting about in his more recent thread, he could have happily done in several of the large Italian cities (Rome, Milan, Naples) or mid-size cities with a large student or young professional population (Bologna, Pavia, Padova, Siena, Bari, etc.)
4) Berlin is more cosmopolitan, more bohemienne and more of a working class melting pot than Milan and probably even London (on the young penniless and working class aspect, at least). Yet, it's just another average European city. The only saving grace is that, having moved away once, EB will not wait months to leave Berlin after he gets bored of it, or will want to try pastures new.

Let's also add that he blamed, slandered and insulted me publicly, thus making it abundantly clear that what he had confessed a while ago - that he was looking for a decent public outlet to vent his hate and get even with the way Italy and Italians treated him - was followed through.

Of course a young American on occasional bouts of schizoid rage is pretty much the norm here, so next to nobody paid attention. Well I did, and reacted, and earmarked him as the biggest "stronzo" ever met in since my times in high school.

His mental instability and immaturity, quite appalling for a guy his age, has been duly noted and from now on I will be three or five times more careful before giving my trust, let alone my friendship and helping efforts, to someone who I only know from their online forum personas.

Now that I have reiterated my stance once again, and clarified that not a single Eurocent is going into my pocket by telling people that Italy is the pits of hell or the heights of heaven, can we please move on from this useless Italy vs Germany diatribe?

Europe is all in the same shit.
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Postby publicduende » Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:01 pm

E Irizarry R&B Singer wrote:OH SHIT! Ummm as much as I like you Public Duende, you need to admit Euro Brat was right for the most part.

EB got ducks lined up in a row!!!! Wow with this vid!!!


Right on what exactly? That is stuff we all know. I could find you thousands of videos that talk about the US in exactly the same tones (or more erudite and in-depth).

It remains that EB, like perhaps many of you, is simply not prepared to put some work to build some social interactions that could go beyond the occasional beer, schnitzel and burp. Therefore, Italy and much of the world south of the Rhine are just not for him.

Need it yesterday, need it easy, need it cheap. No wonder the Philippines are so popular.
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Postby Jester » Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:15 pm

publicduende wrote:
E Irizarry R&B Singer wrote:OH SHIT! Ummm as much as I like you Public Duende, you need to admit Euro Brat was right for the most part.

EB got ducks lined up in a row!!!! Wow with this vid!!!


Right on what exactly? That is stuff we all know. I could find you thousands of videos that talk about the US in exactly the same tones (or more erudite and in-depth).

It remains that EB, like perhaps many of you, is simply not prepared to put some work to build some social interactions that could go beyond the occasional beer, schnitzel and burp. Therefore, Italy and much of the world south of the Rhine are just not for him.

Need it yesterday, need it easy, need it cheap. No wonder the Philippines are so popular.


Actually grist for another thread, or even another website.

Not "when" should a man go abroad,
not "where" should a man go abroad,
but "how" should a man go abroad.

Let's be fair, EuroBrat got it 100% right by using his USA sales background to obtain location-independent sales work he could do from Western Europe time zones.

The income issue is huge for most, and he got that right.

He also picked a culture he was interested in, and learned the language. Got that right.

What he was unable to do is to PENETRATE Italian society. Like going to a bar full of hotties and NOT GETTING ANY.

He and I spoke briefly about this, it parallels my experience in Mexico. Some societies are harder to penetrate than others.

I have no doubt that PublicDuende gave some good advice, and I have no doubt that some was hard for Euro to follow. Not trying to micro-analyze.

What I am saying that being Happier Abroad is not just about bucks, passport, plane ticket and the right women, but ALSO about how the hell you blend in and fit in when you get there.
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Postby eurobrat » Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:46 pm

publicduende wrote:LOL I have just come back home (gym + dinner with friends) and this is just what I needed to sweat off 50% of the red wine in my blood right now! :lol: :lol: :lol:


Yea have another glass will you, or bottle. Get drunk and let it out, let out all your anger against me. I don't care.

publicduende wrote:So why have I been ranting on EB's expat report thread, and now sound more eager to pick up a fight with him than a cockney mafia boy whose girlfriend has just been kicked in the nose before him?

Because, for how bad the situation is in Italy:

1) it's nowhere near as bad as EB depicts it, especially in the socialisation and dating department, which is why he moved over there in the first place;
2) the negatives of Italy are to a large extent the negatives of Europe as a whole, so the "nowhere left to hide" is very much applicable from Como to Chernobyl, Milan to Madrid, Berlin to Bari.
3) the stuff that he is boasting about in his more recent thread, he could have happily done in several of the large Italian cities (Rome, Milan, Naples) or mid-size cities with a large student or young professional population (Bologna, Pavia, Padova, Siena, Bari, etc.)
4) Berlin is more cosmopolitan, more bohemienne and more of a working class melting pot than Milan and probably even London (on the young penniless and working class aspect, at least). Yet, it's just another average European city. The only saving grace is that, having moved away once, EB will not wait months to leave Berlin after he gets bored of it, or will want to try pastures new.


All of Europe is not the same, some places are faring better than others. knock it off with your 'there's nowhere left to hide' doom and gloom. italy is bad on a scale of a 1-10 it's about a 7 getting ready to make the jump to a 9 fairly soon.

publicduende wrote:Let's also add that he blamed, slandered and insulted me publicly, thus making it abundantly clear that what he had confessed a while ago - that he was looking for a decent public outlet to vent his hate and get even with the way Italy and Italians treated him - was followed through.


I do feel better moving away, "letting it all out" online. Now I know why people come to these places angry.

publicduende wrote:Of course a young American on occasional bouts of schizoid rage is pretty much the norm here, so next to nobody paid attention. Well I did, and reacted, and earmarked him as the biggest "stronzo" ever met in since my times in high school.


Sei un Gran' disgraziato. Tu dovrebbe ottenere" Ciuccio" tatuate sulla fronte.

You never even met me, I invited you and of course you stood me up. You never invited me to Bari or London for that matter but I invited you and your wife down and you blew me off like pixie dust on a cold stormy Como night.

And yes people did care about my experiences in Italy and me sharing the low-down.

publicduende wrote:His mental instability and immaturity, quite appalling for a guy his age, has been duly noted and from now on I will be three or five times more careful before giving my trust, let alone my friendship and helping efforts, to someone who I only know from their online forum personas.


You're no shinning star yourself.

publicduende wrote:Now that I have reiterated my stance once again, and clarified that not a single Eurocent is going into my pocket by telling people that Italy is the pits of hell or the heights of heaven, can we please move on from this useless Italy vs Germany diatribe?


Thank god!
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Postby publicduende » Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:51 pm

Jester wrote:Actually grist for another thread, or even another website.

Not "when" should a man go abroad,
not "where" should a man go abroad,
but "how" should a man go abroad.

Let's be fair, EuroBrat got it 100% right by using his USA sales background to obtain location-independent sales work he could do from Western Europe time zones.

The income issue is huge for most, and he got that right.

He also picked a culture he was interested in, and learned the language. Got that right.


Yeah he got a work from home job, not badly paid by Italian (or German) standards. Kudos for that.

He picked a culture he thought he was interested in, or better said, he picked what he thought Italian society and culture could offer him. Unfortunately reality hit and hit hard. I did advise him to go south, I did advise him to start easy and gradual, maybe moving to my hometown (Bari) where I would have helped him find a job and a social setting. I did what every Italian willing to be friends would have done: open his door. But he didn't walk in and preferred to behave based on his mental theorems on what he would have liked the most about Italy, and what would have worked. I don't blame him for his inexperience, and surely don't blame him for being adventurous. It takes guts. I blame him for betraying my trust slandering me in public for what was just a genuine, uninterested (and free of charge) attempt to help him. That I will never forgive him.

By the way, Italian isn't such an easy language. I am sure he did some 1-to-1 language classes over Skype but not sure how much Italian he picked up. Surely he knows a few swearing words...for everything else, there's Google Translate.

Jester wrote:What he was unable to do is to PENETRATE Italian society. Like going to a bar full of hotties and NOT GETTING ANY.

He and I spoke briefly about this, it parallels my experience in Mexico. Some societies are harder to penetrate than others.

I have no doubt that PublicDuende gave some good advice, and I have no doubt that some was hard for Euro to follow. Not trying to micro-analyze.

What I am saying that being Happier Abroad is not just about bucks, passport, plane ticket and the right women, but ALSO about how the hell you blend in and fit in when you get there.


Exactly. Precisely. Like most adventurous types, he was blissfully unaware of the real effort one needs to pour to truly understand, or "penetrate" as you called it, a society that has a different approach to daily life: socialising, dating, working, eating, fighting, f***ing, etc.

Some countries like the Philippines have a thin veneer of American culture which seems to lower the barrier to entry a lot, and also has pool of poor and needy girls whose sexual services are apparently priced cheaper than the chance (hope?) of a Kano boyfriend and a better life.

I still maintain that the reason why I thoroughly enjoyed my stay in Davao and was able to enter pretty exclusive circles, the real upper middle class and power brokers, in a relatively small amount of time was that I, perhaps unconsciously, tapped into the lower and much thicker layer of their cultural territory: the Catholic/Spaniard one. It was obviously easier for me as I come from that kind of culture and find many of things you guy get scandalised about pretty normal, or at least much more tolerable. It does also explain why I have no problem dealing with Colombians and Latin Americans, and find it a lot harder to decipher a Brit or a Northern European, with the exception of Russians.

All of this to give a corollary of sort of what you wrote above: how the hell you blend in is a function of the distance between your local culture and way of thinking (which is a function of personality, family upbringing etc.) and that of your chosen host country. The smaller the gap to jump, when you decide to jump, the safer and smoother the landing.
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Postby eurobrat » Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:55 pm

publicduende wrote:
E Irizarry R&B Singer wrote:OH SHIT! Ummm as much as I like you Public Duende, you need to admit Euro Brat was right for the most part.

EB got ducks lined up in a row!!!! Wow with this vid!!!


Right on what exactly? That is stuff we all know. I could find you thousands of videos that talk about the US in exactly the same tones (or more erudite and in-depth).

It remains that EB, like perhaps many of you, is simply not prepared to put some work to build some social interactions that could go beyond the occasional beer, schnitzel and burp. Therefore, Italy and much of the world south of the Rhine are just not for him.

Need it yesterday, need it easy, need it cheap. No wonder the Philippines are so popular.


On your experiences in the Philippines you compared it to being similar to southern italian culture. Obviously it's not, Filipinos are much more humble, inviting and friendly people in my experience compared to Italians. Italians are like spoiled children of Europe, running around drunk with daddies funds doing whatever they want.

I was more than ready to put in the work, I waited 6 years and spent a lot of money for the moment only to walk into a place that's literally crumbling like roman ruins during a large earthquake. I sold everything, stopped looking for work in the US and threw all bets on Italy, lost but still walked away with my chin held high ready to try a different roulette table.

Finally after all my losses in Italy, I'm winning.
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Postby publicduende » Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:02 pm

eurobrat wrote:Yea have another glass will you, or bottle. Get drunk and let it out, let out all your anger against me. I don't care.


f**k man, will you stop playing the mirror game. This whole diatribe was because you let out all of your anger against me, and now you're attributing your actions to me? It's not the first time you do it. Are you serious or doing it just to piss me off?

eurobrat wrote:I do feel better moving away, "letting it all out" online. Now I know why people come to these places angry.


Yeah, indeed. Too bad I honestly considered you a world apart from those young "miserable at home" types. You proved me not much how wrong I was in judging you, but how easy is for some of us to turn frustration into anger, and anger into hate, and fall squarely into the same pitfalls of desperation and negativity so many other members seem to permanently inhabit.

publicduende wrote:Of course a young American on occasional bouts of schizoid rage is pretty much the norm here, so next to nobody paid attention. Well I did, and reacted, and earmarked him as the biggest "stronzo" ever met in since my times in high school.


eurobrat wrote:Sei un Gran' disgraziato. Tu dovrebbe ottenere" Ciuccio" tatuate sulla fronte.

You never even met me, I invited you and of course you stood me up. You never invited me to Bari or London for that matter but I invited you and your wife down and you blew me off like pixie dust on a cold stormy Como night.

And yes people did care about my experiences in Italy and me sharing the low-down.


You really want to piss me off then. It used to be ridiculous, but now it's just annoying. You know it's hard for me to take time off, I only took a grand total of 5 days off since I started my latest contract last January. I did invite you to my place (near London), remember that bottle bar we were talking about? I admit it though, your last few months were so poisoned with depression and self-defeat that I was seriously afraid you would have a bad effect on me, had I ever met you. I realise I kind of left you alone when you needed somebody to talk to the most, but you have to understand: I have a life, a pretty stressful one at that, and I am ill-equipped to face your problems. Couldn't afford to take more problems on board.

eurobrat wrote:You're no shinning star yourself.


LOL who is, nowadays. You know what I went through. I told you I would bounce back, and I did.

eurobrat wrote:
publicduende wrote:Now that I have reiterated my stance once again, and clarified that not a single Eurocent is going into my pocket by telling people that Italy is the pits of hell or the heights of heaven, can we please move on from this useless Italy vs Germany diatribe?


Thank god!


Thanks dog :)
Last edited by publicduende on Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby publicduende » Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:05 pm

eurobrat wrote:On your experiences in the Philippines you compared it to being similar to southern italian culture. Obviously it's not, Filipinos are much more humble, inviting and friendly people in my experience compared to Italians. Italians are like spoiled children of Europe, running around drunk with daddies funds doing whatever they want.

I was more than ready to put in the work, I waited 6 years and spent a lot of money for the moment only to walk into a place that's literally crumbling like roman ruins during a large earthquake. I sold everything, stopped looking for work in the US and threw all bets on Italy, lost but still walked away with my chin held high ready to try a different roulette table.

Finally after all my losses in Italy, I'm winning.


LOL I understand your judgement as you have never been there, but real Filipinos are far from humble, inviting and friendly. Or better, they are humble inviting and friendly if you can prove them you're worth their trust and friendship. Exactly like Italians, or southern Italians at least. The bend-over-backwards Pinoys and the easy and needy Pinays mostly have an agenda and play tricks. Ask around.

No dude, finally you moved on from that massive canyon of negativity you were stuck in between. Good for you, stronzone :)
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Postby eurobrat » Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:20 pm

publicduende wrote:LOL I understand your judgement as you have never been there, but real Filipinos are far from humble, inviting and friendly. Or better, they are humble inviting and friendly if you can prove them you're worth their trust and friendship. Exactly like Italians, or southern Italians at least. The bend-over-backwards Pinoys and the easy and needy Pinays mostly have an agenda and play tricks. Ask around.

No dude, finally you moved on from that massive canyon of negativity you were stuck in between. Good for you, stronzone :)


Yea and the only way to "gain trust" of those in Lombardy is to flash some money or act like a fake weirdo.
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Postby eurobrat » Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:47 pm

publicduende wrote:LOL I have just come back home (gym + dinner with friends) and this is just what I needed to sweat off 50% of the red wine in my blood right now! :lol: :lol: :lol:


Nothing worse than a drunk arrogant Italian pumped up on vino on a dating forum at 1am. :lol:
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Postby publicduende » Fri Sep 26, 2014 12:00 am

eurobrat wrote:
publicduende wrote:LOL I have just come back home (gym + dinner with friends) and this is just what I needed to sweat off 50% of the red wine in my blood right now! :lol: :lol: :lol:


Nothing worse than a drunk arrogant Italian pumped up on vino on a dating forum at 1am. :lol:


Vafangul va ;)
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