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I'm in my mid-late 20's. Excellent shape with the Seran Wrap abs and chest striations. Finally in a decent career track. Socially savvier than 5 years ago. There's just one little problem: I now find myself completely shut out of the dating market for prime females (under 23). As in virtually none will even respond. And if they do, it's always with some snarky comment about my old age.
I've improved on every metric from my skinny-fat, broke 22 year old self. Yet my dating market value is LOWER than ever. And my options are only going to get worse. Isn't this completely backwards? It would be like acquiring more certifications and practical experience for your job... only to get demoted. Not even maintain. Why is this allowed to happen?
A woman's prime years are between the ages of 17 and 23. Women at this age get so much attention that the can be very picky and demanding. They even test men to see if you are worth her time or not. It really is a numbers game. You have to stand out from the other 10-20 guys chasing her.
I am not sure where you are from but if you live in the USA, most girls at that age want to play the field and have fun. This includes sex with numerous guys they consider to be hot. Consider yourself lucky if these girls don't respond to you.
There are tons are threads on this site about the horrible dating scene in many Western countries. Go abroad and watch your value increase 1000%
Men chase, women choose
As long as you have gold in your hand, you will ALWAYS have bread on your table.
Its never easy being an American and this is coming from a guy in a poor third world country. I thought my life is a mess however, internet changed all that. I had the opportunity to read the lifes of ordinary Americans that western lame stream media never highlights and I came to realization that on many things, my life ain't that bad afterall.
Being American you need to do something really different or "crazy" than rest of the world.
Sorry, it may sound harsh.
Excellent shape with the Seran Wrap abs and chest striations >> Is nothing special in America. Remember, Women are hunting for top 10% of males in America. Every other guy in top 10% has Excellent shape with the Seran Wrap abs and chest striations PLUS they are super rich or a celebrity.
You have only two choices in America...Either be a D**K in America or Get Out of America. Being a D**k aka A**H*** would allow you to easily be on the top 10% or you can live America and Keep your Soul and Sanity and still get a girl.
I was just reading that Leonardo Di Caprio just "replaced" her current Super Model GF
https://ph.celebrity.yahoo.com/news/dic ... 00395.html
and you have Charlie Sheen types plus millionaires, gangsters etc etc...They have like 100+ girls on rotation every year, they don't need us, they get their shopping money and they wait for the call.
Why would a super hot model NEED to date a Non Top 10% er in America?
America is an Experiment. The entire America is created for just 1%. Its created entirely not for humanities betterment but a place to screw humanity more they just call that a new trend, new vaccine, New thingy, New Fad etc etc. You are always losing in America you just don't know it, this virus is spreading into rest of the world too.
I have met many Americans and they are extremely talented. They just do not know their worth untill they travel abroad. You are only 25. The hottest, feminine, super good women are available for you all over the world. Get out. Don't be an Experiment.
That is what Americans are...Just a Number for another "Trend" , Another "Viral stuff" ...Don't be that...realize your true potential.
With the excellent shape you described, plus your age plus your decent career, you will be a star in no time abroad. Guaranteed.
Man you absolutely nailed it with that last set of paragraphs you wrote...You will never maximize you full potential here in the US....You must go overseas if you want to experience a true life, a real life...
Get out of this sinking ship while you still can!
Funny that you made that comparison because that is exactly how the ESL market actually works for teachers. You can learn the local language, get a TEFL and build up years of teaching experience but once you are over 30 employers will still favor 22 year olds that just graduated uni and just stepped off the plane.
I feel exactly how you feel and this is the cause of my somewhat early midlife crisis. What it comes down to is romance and good sex are for younger guys. Nothing comes close to dating in high school and college. 20 year old girls only want guys their age and the only ones willing to date older guys are just looking for money. It isn't so much that women lose their looks with age, but at a certain age most women have kids, have a jaded attitude, have become really frigid and are mainly only looking for a man with a high income to support them. I get so envious when I see a young guy doing well. One of my roommates in the Philippines was a 21 year old from Norway. He was really immature and he looked like a teenager. He had the looks of those boyish pop stars that young teenage girls in America go crazy for. Women were throwing themselves at him and he brought them home all the time. Meanwhile, I was only getting p4p. You can imagine how hard that was on me.
I guess once you are around 28 you're supposed to put those "immature" desires behind you and be getting ready to start a family. By that age it seems like most guys are focused on climbing the corporate ladder and trying to beat their coworkers at fantasy football.
I think your problem, assuming it can be called a problem, comes from the fact that you want to date girls you would be normally dating in your late teens and early twenties, despite society seeing you differently, because of your age and (perceived) social status.
I guess the average American 20-yo would be all about how you look like, how you rank on the local stud menu, how good you are at pleasing her, how much having you in the sack could help increase her popularity with her friends, all the way down to (maybe) the money you will spend to buy her drinks meals and gifts. Social status in a more mature/adult setting, such what job and family you have, she wouldn't really care. This explains why so many girls in this age range could fall for the sporty bum/RnB thug type just as easily as for the Hilfiger-clad Mr Upper Class Perfect.
Most if not all of the qualities you say you have acquired through discipline and hard work, physical and mental fitness, a good career that gives you financial stability and family-planning capacity, probably mean next to nothing to the girls you used to date (or could have dated) 10 years ago.
Change demographics and things will change: do you have any objections in dating girls in their late twenties? Or just a few years younger than you as you grow into your thirties? I guess you can still find lots of hot late 20-to early 30 women who still look gorgeous, take care of themselves and will hopefully bring something more on the table, financial independence, maturity, more topics to talk about, etc.
Some countries in South East Asia and Latin America are the only places I know where younger women don't mind dating men 10+ years older than them. And that is because they tend to be more mature and family-oriented from a younger age. They're statistically poorer and will have to earn what they get being serious, disciplined and hard-working. This means they learn to appreciate those same qualities in a man, and obviously understand that those qualities are displayed more profusely by men in their 30s or 40s than teenagers and younger men.
Try pop to Colombia, Chile or Argentina, and look the way you look, and you'll see...
Last edited by publicduende on Thu Oct 16, 2014 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
18-22 year olds wanna party and get laid by Alpha guys their own age, often from their own social circle. There are a few mature gems in this age group who would consider a mature/attractive man ~10 years older than them, but not many. Unless you're lucky to stumble across a 21yo gem who knows what she wants, you need to go to other countries to find females in this age group who will consider a relationship with an older man.
23-27 year olds think they're all grown up and stuff. By this age, girls have broadened their demographics, have better logistics/mobility and they want a relationship, but their lives are still a busy haze of excitement and instability. This is the age of graduate degrees, new jobs/internships, moving to new cities for work/school, vacations w/ the girlfriends to Italy and Vegas. You can get these girls for casual fun or LTRs, but if they're attractive you have to have Game, because these girls have a lot of options/distractions and they think they're at the top of the world, and technically they are.
28-30 year olds have finally reached the epiphany stage and many have acquired husband rabies. This is where the pendulum starts to swing in favor of men, the Rational Male SMP scale illustrates this beautifully. https://rationalmale.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/smv_curve1.jpgRead some dating profiles of 29 year olds. "I'm tired of dating just to date", "I'm totally over the club scene", "I found my faith and am looking for a nice man to sit on the back porch and have a chill time with". Some women in this age group are absolutely terrible because they're a perfect storm of age 30 crisis and lingering 20s entitlement.
Over 30 single women are noticeably different. They've accepted their lowered SMV and adjusted their behavior accordingly. They're much easier to game, at least in the early stages, but if they're successful/attractive/careerist, they have a whole new list of demands, attributes they want in a man.
If I were still " on the dating market," I would ignore girls who are in the 18-23 age bracket. Most of them, as mentioned before, are only interested in partying, drinking, getting tatted up, and sleeping around with the most alpha @$$hole they can find. In America, it's not even about looking good anymore. So many guys are tall and good looking in the younger age bracket. You have to be an @$$hole, a Denis Leary, Joe Rogan-esque prick, if you want to stand a chance with any girl above a 6.
Quite honestly, most girls in this age bracket bore me. They have nothing to offer in the way of conversation, mind, mutual interests etc. I don't know, maybe its just because I'm getting older (33) but I think that if I wasn't married and still dating, it would take more to sustain my interest than just a nice body.
Of course, I will get this in before some chode says, "Well older women are no different!" This may be true in many cases, but I still think you stand a better chance finding more interesting women who are over 25 than under (at least in the US. Foreign countries are a different kettle of fish, of course.) As someone else said, be thankful that you're not getting any attention from those girls. They bring nothing but pointless drama.
"A dreamer is one who can only find his way by moonlight, and his punishment is that he sees the dawn before the rest of the world." -Oscar Wilde
"Invincibility is in oneself, vulnerability is in the opponent" -Sun Tzu
This is utter horse $h!t. At least in Asia. When I was stationed in China, the vast majority of teachers I worked with were over 30. When I was on the JET Programme teaching English in Japan, I would say about half were college grads, and the other half were over 30. Yes, if you're a 55-60 year old trying to get a job teaching English in Asia, it will be more difficult, and you will face age discrimination, but 30? Get real. 30 is probably the perfect age, because you are still young enough to have energy, but old enough to have a good deal of experience. If you are in your early 30s and can't get a teaching job, there is something wrong with the way you are marketing yourself.
"A dreamer is one who can only find his way by moonlight, and his punishment is that he sees the dawn before the rest of the world." -Oscar Wilde
"Invincibility is in oneself, vulnerability is in the opponent" -Sun Tzu
To clarify, I was incel during my teens and early 20's as well. So it's not like my sex life is objectively worse now. It's just that opportunities are nonexistent at this age.
There was a neighborhood Indian chick crushing on me all through high school. It was patently obvious to me and everyone else in our shared social circle. One guy even quipped, "He's not going to sleep with you, Amanda." But I would have! If it weren't for helicopter parents.
I had several good prospects in high school actually. Not so much college, where the extreme hypergamy kind of cancels out the the social freedom. But who knows? Maybe if I had played my cards right - joined an Asian students club or something - I could've dated a dowdy fob. Hot cheerleaders were never in the cards, but even the below average girls look f*cking amazing in their teens. Especially when the clothes come off.
Consider me the ghost of college past. I'll never get over not making the most of my prime. I bet current dorm residents can hear the dolorous wails of my incel spirit late at night. I still get PTSD symptoms whenever I see young couples.
I have good news for you. Much of the problem is you. You somehow have the misguided notion that
you are owed nubile tarts in exchange for just showing up. It did not work out that way, so now you
are depressed. You are 25 and life is over, the hot chicks are all beyond your reach...blah blah blah.
Get over yourself. A few of us old dogs know of what we speak.
First of all, even if you can find a girl in the USA, chances are, you are a fool to want her.
You really think that little blonde tart can't gain 50 lbs, cut her hair and drag your a$$ through court
once she has pushed out a pup or two? You really think that somehow YOUR tart is not going to turn into
that lemon-sucking shrew once she finds her moment of "self potential"?
You really need to be sent off to the boot camp so you can learn how to pull your head out of your a$$.
It's your only hope. Live some life, so you have something to bring to the table.
Apart from the dire odds with AW in general, do you really think that there are not a decent number of
young, sexy 21 year-old lovelies who have ZERO interest dropping their undies for the garden variety
"guy" of today. The majority of such American "guys" are little manlets...semi-fags, who on their best
day will not graduate beyond disgruntled mama's helpers.
Are you a "guy" or a man? Their is a perceptive minority of young women who know the difference.
As soon as they have tasted the difference, they shed any attraction they might have had for
those little college manlets. When some of these very attractive young women meet up with a man for the
first time, they intuitively know and feel the difference. The man is formidable. He has lived some danger.
He may speak another language. He has a passport with a lot of stamps in it. He can take the girl to another world. He can take her to Mexico and she will meet people who obviously know him. She enjoys a bow-wave
of respect because of her association with him. She feels tapped into a vein of energy far beyond anything
she has ever imagined in college. This is life in the raw, with all the passions born of it. She can return to her
home with tales that would make her college bound friends turn green with envy. Now she knows those college boys are just that.
Make yourself something. It will be your stock and trade. You see, if you are the problem, YOU can do
something about it. It's good news. That said, why bother with American women even if you can ?
Let's assume for a moment that you are correct. All the good times with US sweeties are over.
Good. You have found the essence of it at the young age of 25. It's the pickle jar or a passport.
This is a hard choice for you?
You might find yourself by 35 a seasoned traveler, in some tropical shore in some remote cabana with
an absolute nympho of 19 ripping your clothes off and raping the $hit out of you while a tropical storm
pound the roof and you have for a moment the curious thought of what a fool you would have been
to pursue that little world that was handed to you for a life template in the USA.
Pursue life in another place and another world as if your life depended on it. It likely does in fact.
What do you have to lose?
You guys are losing your time. I think Jeremy might just be a troll, as he only shows up with the same recurring complaint but with absolutely no plans, and won't even answer to members suggestions.
He's not site-relevant IMO.
1)Too much of one thing defeats the purpose.
2)Everybody is full of it. What's your hypocrisy?
I'm doing just fine at age 38.
I'm finishing up my B.A. in Special Education and I've had more than a few younger women express interest in me. The key is probably the fact that I don't chase them or ask them out. They approach me because of multiple reasons which include: I'm intelligent, I'm good with children, I have the same career interests that they do, I'm successful at my current job while working my way through school, I can cook, I own a nice car, I own my own townhouse, and I offer good advice on assignments within our classes. After my student teaching semester I will likely be the only male teacher at the elementary school I am assigned to. I'll have abundant dating opportunities with my colleagues as well as single mothers. The best advice I can give you is to pick a job or career in which dating opportunities present themselves to you. Working as a cook or chef essentially means the work environment is a total sausage fest and it's dysfunctional as hell too. I'm looking forward to my graduation date. I'll have summers off to go overseas and my pick of dating opportunities while I work during the school year. Generally speaking from age 25 to 35 my dating opportunities sucked as well, but I've learned to play the game better while becoming more valuable to someone I would date.
You're a moron and a loser. It is not so much your situation, which may not be your fault. It is your analasis of it.
I'm over 40, definitely don't have 6-pack abs, married, and there's no way I'm going to lob mine off because I make use of it very often.
Hang in there. You don't need those 23-year-old women who want nothing to do with you. You just need one woman to be your wife.
One of the problems with our culture is that 23-year-old women are often not marriage minded. My guess is marriage mindedness kicks in around 26 or so. They go from high school where they are interested in boys who can thrown touchdown passes or who are cool rebels or whatever. Then they go to college and get their college idea of what a cool boy is. After a couple of years out of college working, they get a taste of real life, see how tough it is to pay back those student loans for a something or other 'studies' major in college working at McDonald's, and begin to appreciate a man who has himself together career-wise.
I'm sure there are marriage-minded 23-year-olds out there, or girls who would be if they met the right guy. Where are you looking for girls? Are you going to night clubs? Someone mentioned men testing men by giving them a hard time when they make a move. Some girls are like that, but I don't know if that's the best kind of girl to date. Some guys go for spunky. I prefer sweet. My wife was sweet when we were dating. I don't remember any of those fitness tests while dating. I guess there are some things I could put in that category after married life if I thought of it. But it's not a common thing with my wife.
I just don't think clubs are a good place to meet a woman, especially if it's not a meat-market. I'm a Christian and I was looking for a virgin wife. Some drunk girl at a club where guys go to find drunk girls to sleep with isn't the right kind of environment for the type of woman I was looking for. Church is a good place for Christians to meet each other. If I were single, I might visit other churches for week night services and look around for a wife that way. If you can go to a church where young marriage is actually encouraged, maybe one of those really conservative churches with lots of home school parents who teach their girls to make candles and bake to prepare them for marriage, maybe you could find a woman interested in marriage at 23, but there aren't a lot of places like that.
I suspect some men on the forum will suggest going abroad and talk about all the flaws with American women when it comes to wife hunting. I don't think that's necessarily the solution. I did meet my wife abroad, but I'm sure there are girls looking at that age, even if they are hard to find. My wife is Indonesian. I posted a thread on the advantages of Indonesian woman a while back. Another advantages is that at 23, a lot of them are marriage oriented. Looking to marry starts a bit younger in some of those countries. Caucasians would be at an advantage in getting the young ladies attention. Lots of them like white men there and there doesn't seem to be much stigma attached to marrying whites unless it's some kind of contract wife scenario. There is a bit of status associated with it. It's like you get a point or two on an out of 10 scale for being Caucasian, and maybe a point just for being foreign.
Why are you looking for 23 year olds? Is it a matter of attraction and personal preference? Are you looking for an unspoiled virgin? Do you want to be the elder in the relationship to get a good submission dynamic going? It's probably possible to find a 26-year-old virgin woman interested in marriage if you really look hard enough. Can't you search for criteria like that on dating websites?
You mentioned your being fit. Do women who are your friends say you are good-looking? It could be a face issue. Of course, if that's the case, going abroad may work in your favor since if you are average, you'll at least be exotic and different in Indonesia, the Philippines, and lots of other countries. As far as the abs go, unless you go around with some sort of revealing shirt, (which could turn off some 'good girl' types), women probably won't know about the abs. They will be able to see that you are fit, which is a plus.
You might also have some female friends who do find you attractive who wonder why they are invisible to you (as many that get labeled 4's, 5's, and 6's can be at times.) When I was younger, I could be blind to cues that a girl liked me, maybe even if I were interested in her, but especially if I didn't have her picked out for special interest. Especially if a woman was under a 7 for my personal tastes, I probably wouldn't pick up on her liking me. Over time, I began to pick up a bit on this sort of thing. I remember once I had a coworker in Indonesia who offered to help me go shopping. I thought she was helping a foreigner get around a bit. I didn't realize she liked me until she invited me over to have lunch with her mom. Even then, it was after I called a female friend and discussed it that I realized what was going on. She was cute, but due to her being of a different religion and her unattractively short hair, she wasn't in my consideration set. So I was fairly blind to her interest.
You could be failing at the unrealistic expectation that you are going to pick up a girl from a 5 minute conversation at a club over some loud music, but have girls you aren't too interested in or who you haven't considered who are interested. It's something to think about. If nothing else, it can give you some assurance that you are attractive to women if certain girls touch their hair around you and show other signs of interest. You don't have to lead anyone on or take advantage of anyone of course.
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