Discuss and talk about any general topic.
Moderators: jamesbond, fschmidt
Last edited by Paloaltoguy
on Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Guts Over Fear
- Freshman Poster
- Posts: 498
- Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 5:47 am
Paloaltoguy wrote: Contrarian Expatriate wrote: Paloaltoguy wrote: Contrarian Expatriate wrote: Paloaltoguy wrote:
See above synopsis. What you're talking about are symptoms because you're not as smart as me (no one really is). When children have their mental models (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_model
) broken by formal schooling, they lose inestest in learning. They're like animals whose spirits have been broken.
That works out great for rich and powerful alike because smart people are very difficult — they ask too many questions, they quit their jobs, etc. Good Manageable people cannot sustain thinking for long or really think at all. They are usually childish people who need attending to by adults (upper management). Their lives are mechanical. Their thoughts well controlled like the thoughts of machinery. Have you noticed that machines don’t ever surprise you after you know their habits? We need dependent human beings, needy people unable to fill their own hours, unable to initiate lines of meaning to give substance and pleasure to their existence. A large fraction of our total economy has grown up around providing service and counseling to inadequate people – and inadequate people are the main product of government compulsion schools. Think Pavlov here with the intent that ‘Public education must limit itself to training working class students to carry out whatever task they are given to do and to accept the commands of their superiors. In other words, the real function of modern pedagogy is to render the common population manageable and to train generations into subservience to the state and corporations. The mechanisms of compulsory schooling cripple imagination, discourages critical thinking, strips children of historical bonds and causes of kinds of mental problems. A truly educated person writes his own script through life- he is not a character in a government or corporation play. The educated person is self-determined to a large degree. Read: The Underground History of American Education. It explains how the Civil War demonstrated to industrialists and financiers how a standardized population trained to follow orders without significant thought could be made to function as a money tree. The Finnish model shows you what happens when you let children develop naturally.
If you were as well informed as you think, you would be aware that Montessori Schools in the US closely approximate the Finnish model yet there is not significant difference between achievement levels of Montessori and non-Montessori school students in the US.
Therefore your unconstrained, free flow, creative play theory has been debunked long ago actually.
For all of your self-proclaimed "intelligence," you might wish to consider that social problems are at the core of US children's underachievement. To make it clear for you, if you took all public school students from a major big city in the US and placed them in a Finnish model school, their achievement would not likely raise due to issues like:
-Single parent households with the one parent using controlled substances, suffering from untreated mental problems, and struggling with near illiteracy.
-Lack of American student cognitive stimulation in the early years leading to lagging neurological development.
-Stress and violence in or near the home which impedes the ability to learn due to peptides and other physiological maladies.
In other words, social problems in Finland pale in comparison to American social problems and these, more than their educational system, explain the lion's share of differences in achievement. I realize how tempting it is to consider international successes and how they portend for American emulation. However, 260 million diverse Americans compared to 5 million heterogeneous Finns does not a valid comparison make.
In a culture like the USA, you need a more "Tiger Mom" approach to overcome the social complexities that do not exist in Nordic countries like Finland which is likely higher or the Human Development index and the USA even.
Wow, everything I said just went right over your head. You should be embarrassed with yourself. Really.
1. Achievement levels? Lol, again, a truly educated person writes his own script through life- he is not a character in a government or corporation play. Do you even know what that means? FYI, Google founders Larry Page and Sergey Brin attended Montessori School. So did Jeff Bezos founder of Amazon and Jimmy Wales, co-founder of Wikipedia.
2. Geez, you're right back talking about symptoms AGAIN because you can't really think. All the symptoms you list are CAUSE by school! You wouldn't have single parent households if you had better humans. Is this stuff right that hard for you to understand? Wow!
3. f**k man, get yourself educated.
None of the "proof" you posted was very good nor convincing, and you tend to oversimplify complex concepts while not being able to account for confounding differences.
I really have to question if you can think critically when you call an American child's chaotic home life "a symptom" a bad education. Even a slow child could point out that chaotic home life is a cause, not a symptom of a child's poor educational experience.
You also cite four high-achieving examples Montessori schools as proof of that system being superior. Really? What about the millions of people like Bill Gates, Peter Thiel, Warren Buffett, and Steve Jobs and the hundreds of thousands of other high-achievers who did not attend Montessori schools? I would say your 4 examples succeeded DESPITE being educated in Montessori schools.
And finally, "F**k man, get yourself educated." Is that the best you could muster? Not very impressive for someone who claims to be able to "think."
Lol, on a scale of 0 to 10 you have demonstrated zero critical thinking skills here bro--- and I'm done talking to you. You don't even know what a causation factor is and how to differentiate variables in order to test for hypotheses in a highly complex system to isolate function vs influence, and other subtle factors in research. A school is more than an educational experience you backwards worm. It's a psychology conditioning laboratory thus the causation factor. A child growing up in a chaotic home is the direct results of inadequate parents produced by compulsory schooling
From the early colonial days until the early 1800's, there was no such thing as compulsory schooling. It may seem difficult to fathom, since you are so conditioned to believe that compulsory schooling is "just a part of growing up", but Benjamin Franklin, widely acknowledged to be one of the greatest thinkers of our time, never attended school as we know it. John d rockefeller dropout of high school so did Walt Disney, Henry Ford, Thomas Edison and Albert Einstein. Most high-achievers are almost always self-driven. Montessori schools make up what? 000.1 percent of total school enrollment and 10% of the highest-achievers? Okay, it's pretty obvious that you're pretty f***ing stupid. Bye
Don't be angry. It is not all your fault that your reasoning ability is completely screwy.
By the way, before you lecture us on causal factors and function vs influence, you should get a grasp on the fact that children from Montessori schools are largely from affluent households with highly successful parents. Therefore the advantaged household and upbringing are the causal factors, not the Montessori schools themselves.
And to put the last nail in your coffin, I'm going to pull something out of my evidence based world, not the sniveling, name-calling approach that you rely upon. You invented a fact when you stated Montessori schools produce 10% of the highest-achievers despite teaching 000.1% of all students. A 2005 study and associated review concluded that Montessori education results in comparable (but not higher) academic achievement to traditional approaches. The review also concluded that studies have found no detectable differences in personality as a result of attending Montessori schools. More recent, longitudinal study-based research found that Montessori students, aged 3–11, outperformed control groups on math and science. and that Montessori had some of the largest positive effects on achievement of all programs evaluated.
-Lopata, Christopher; Wallace, Nancy V; Finn, Kristin V (2005). "Comparison of Academic Achievement Between Montessori and Traditional Education Programs", Journal of Research in Childhood Education 20/1, pp. 5-13
-Dohrmann KR, Nishida TK, Gartner A, Lipsky DK, Grimm KJ (2007). "High school outcomes for students previously in a public Montessori program", Journal of Research in Childhood Education 22/2, pp. 205-217
-Borman,2003, Review of Education Research
These studies show that you fraudulently invent facts and conclusions to suit your asinine theories. You have hereby been discredited and are of no further use to those of us who can actually think. Now go run along before I have your HS diploma revoked due to acute idiocy.
- Experienced Poster
- Posts: 1421
- Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:57 am
Return to General Discussions
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: zboy1 and 3 guests