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This forum will be dead by early 2015

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This forum will be dead by early 2015

Postby MarcosZeitola » Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:16 pm

We are rapidly losing members, long-standing members, respectable members, formerly active members. We maintain a facade of activity that mainly consist of troll posts and replies to them, with only a few legitimate users remaining active.

Winston is hesitant to ban outright trolls, and tries to remain neutral it seems, but this causes the forums to deteriorate dramatically. We know who the trolls are, we know who the people are without having to mention any names. We know it, we occasionally point out the damage they are doing, but no action is taken. Every day you allow them to stay on the site longer, you are digging HA's grave a little deeper.

I think Winston is afraid that if he bans certain people, activity will drop even lower. I think the opposite is true and some people might actually return from their self-imposed exile when the site's rotten apples are thoroughly and permanently removed. In the poll I made a while back, over 80% of members agreed disruptive trolls need to be banned, but no one was banned.

You wanted to install a new moderator, right Winston? It's about time you make up your mind and pick one, maybe Jester will be a little more trigger-happy then you and solve this problem once and for all.

I get the appeal of a happy-go-lucky approach to moderating. I get the appeal of an "anything goes" environment. I seriously do, man. But you have to draw the line somewhere and realize that maybe, just maybe, it's gotten to a point where it does more bad then good and the forum is suffering from the way things are handled and problems are allowed to simmer on.

What I suggest is simply this:

1. You make up your mind on which member(s) to appoint as a new moderator(s)

2. The members generally seen as causing the most trouble are banned, either by you or the new moderator

3. In the future, troublesome users are dealt with much more swiftly to avoid things getting out hand this way ever again

4. You finally realize that while free speech is all fine and dandy, outright trolling does NOT fall under it


In the words of the great late Elvis Presley: A little less conversation, a little more action please.
Last edited by MarcosZeitola on Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: This forum will be dead by early 2015

Postby Anatol » Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:24 pm

MarcosZeitola wrote:We are rapidly losing members, long-standing members, respectable members, formerly active members. We maintain a facade of activity that mainly consist of troll posts and replies to them, with only a few legitimate users remaining active.

Winston is hesitant to ban outright trolls, and tries to remain neutral it seems, but this causes the forums to deteriorate dramatically. We know who the trolls are, we know who the people are without having to mention any names. We know it, we occasionally point out the damage they are doing, but no action is taken. Every day you allow them to stay on the site longer, you are digging HA's grave a little deeper.

I think Winston is afraid that if he bans certain people, activity will drop even lower. I think the opposite is true and some people might actually return from their self-imposed exile when the site's rotten apples are thoroughly and permanently removed. In the poll I made a while back, over 80% of members agreed disruptive trolls need to be banned, but no one was banned.

You wanted to install a new moderator, right Winston? It's about time you make up your mind and pick one, maybe Jester will be a little more trigger-happy then you and solve this problem once and for all.

I get the appeal of a happy-go-lucky approach to moderating. I get the appeal of an "anything goes" environment. I seriously do, man. But you have to draw the line somewhere and realize that maybe, just maybe, it's gotten to a point where it does more bad then good and the forum is suffering from the way things are handled and problems are allowed to simmer on.


Hello,

The only reason you are saying this is because I said that married females have no business here. And I am firm on this. Women must worship men and worship their husbands ~

Hence that Renata female should be expelled.


Administrator Sir ~ I call upon...............ROOTHRAA............and for you to listen to his immaculate persona!!!!! Bestow upon me your administrative powers for 1 day and I will CLEANSE this place. I promise upon the book of Roothraa himself!!!
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Re: This forum will be dead by early 2015

Postby MarcosZeitola » Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:41 pm

Anatol wrote:Hello,

The only reason you are saying this is because I said that married females have no business here. And I am firm on this. Women must worship men and worship their husbands ~

Hence that Renata female should be expelled.


Administrator Sir ~ I call upon...............ROOTHRAA............and for you to listen to his immaculate persona!!!!! Bestow upon me your administrative powers for 1 day and I will CLEANSE this place. I promise upon the book of Roothraa himself!!!


Thank you for helping you make my case with a fine example of what I am talking about.
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Re: This forum will be dead by early 2015

Postby Johnny1975 » Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:45 pm

The theme of this forum interests me a lot. And yet whenever I come here to see what's going on, I can't stick around. Something isn't quite right.
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Re: This forum will be dead by early 2015

Postby Winston » Wed Dec 03, 2014 3:32 pm

I just banned anatol for a week.

How do you define a troll?

There are essentially two rules here. One is no attacking other members without provocation, unless you are retaliating to an insult. Two is no lying about other members or posting fraudulent info.

How would you define trolling? I believe that newlifeinphilippines bullshits a lot but I can't prove it. If he was caught red handed he would receive a warning or ban.

I am hesitant to have Marcos be a moderator because his opinions are too strong. I like his personality and views and he is a good man with truth and good morals though. He would be good as a comrade. But as a moderator, I'm not so sure.

Marcos you sound paranoid here. People have predicted the downfall of this forum for years. Yet we have more posters now than ever.
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Re: This forum will be dead by early 2015

Postby MrPeabody » Wed Dec 03, 2014 3:54 pm

This forum won't die because of the network effect. Everyone goes to the sites with a high google ranking and most of the rest of the Internet is ignored. It seems that a forum can continue with garbage content and trolls forever. Look at craiglist. It's even worse. My question is once a website achieves a google ranking, how does it every die?
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Re: This forum will be dead by early 2015

Postby Rock » Wed Dec 03, 2014 4:54 pm

MrPeabody wrote:This forum won't die because of the network effect. Everyone goes to the sites with a high google ranking and most of the rest of the Internet is ignored. It seems that a forum can continue with garbage content and trolls forever. Look at craiglist. It's even worse. My question is once a website achieves a google ranking, how does it every die?


Yes, I reckon Marcos doesn't really understand the dynamics of web forum business like Winston does. The HA archives are a goldmine full of all kinds of stuff. Even if new posting ceased to a halt, the site could probably go on for years with the 75-100K unique visitors per month and continue to generate Winston his 1.5-2K monthly income. Posting activity may be way down but I think current monthly visitor numbers are not far from peak levels.

It's his site. Let him do as he pleases. If any of us don't like it, we should just vote with our feet the way others have. There are plenty of other forum options out there.
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Re: This forum will be dead by early 2015

Postby MarcosZeitola » Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:01 pm

Winston wrote:I just banned anatol for a week.


Good. Thank you very much. Now ban PAG or make Jester a mod and have him done it. You yourself suggested him as a good mod and a lot of people agreed, including me.

Winston wrote:How do you define a troll?


A troll is someone who is aggresive with a lot of users, who spams huge walls of text (often copy-paste) and who does not contribute to the forum. Take PAG for example, he contributes nothing, copy and pastes text walls, gets aggressive with others, insults other members and so forth. User "The" also acts this way sometimes, but appears to have gotten somewhat more civil since his unbanning. Trolls give off a... troll-ish vibe, lol. You can usually tell right away they're only here to stir shit.

Winston wrote:There are essentially two rules here. One is no attacking other members without provocation, unless you are retaliating to an insult. Two is no lying about other members or posting fraudulent info.


Those are both excellent bannable offenses.

Winston wrote:How would you define trolling? I believe that newlifeinphilippines bullshits a lot but I can't prove it. If he was caught red handed he would receive a warning or ban.


Newlife is a lowlife and a hypocrite, but I would not call him a troll. He has made a few comments that made me raise my eyebrows and suspect he was one... I am, as of now, undecided. If he's not a troll, then he's one of the most trollish regular members I have ever seen.

Winston wrote:I am hesitant to have Marcos be a moderator because his opinions are too strong. I like his personality and views and he is a good man with truth and good morals though. He would be good as a comrade. But as a moderator, I'm not so sure.


I have no ambitions to be a moderator. If you made me one I would ban half the forum, lol. :wink:

Winston wrote:Marcos you sound paranoid here. People have predicted the downfall of this forum for years. Yet we have more posters now than ever.


I am not sure if we do. Several of them are trolls, and there's quite a few posters who post once or twice then never post again. I think you should promote Jester and another member as moderators soon, as you said you would. That would be a very good start, and also release you from the burden of always having to make the tough calls by yourself.
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Re: This forum will be dead by early 2015

Postby Paloaltoguy » Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:01 pm

:roll:
Last edited by Paloaltoguy on Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: This forum will be dead by early 2015

Postby MarcosZeitola » Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:11 pm

Rock wrote:It's his site. Let him do as he pleases. If any of us don't like it, we should just vote with our feet the way others have. There are plenty of other forum options out there.


Oh I agree entirely, it's his site and I respect him a lot for setting up and spreading the good message to so many men in the West. The website is fine, the forums are fine, my suggestions were merely on how to manage the community, which seems quite overrun with trolls and bad posters. I would like to see some of the most disruptive ones banned a little quicker then they are right now. It's a suggestion, of course. I realize full well its not my forum.
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Re: This forum will be dead by early 2015

Postby lasttry » Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:13 pm

What all these forums really need is what they used to call a "twit filter" back in the NNTP/Usenet days. What that means is you can specify users whose posts you don't want to ever see. Those users won't be banned from the forum, but the things they post will be invisible to the people who twit filter them (unless other users quote these twits in their replies).
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Re: This forum will be dead by early 2015

Postby MarcosZeitola » Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:15 pm

lasttry wrote:What all these forums really need is what they used to call a "twit filter" back in the NNTP/Usenet days. What that means is you can specify users whose posts you don't want to ever see. Those users won't be banned from the forum, but the things they post will be invisible to the people who twit filter them (unless other users quote these twits in their replies).


The ignore option already exists, but I don't like it: new members or potential member visitors would still see the bullshit and troll posts and it would make the forums look bad. And when quoted the troll posts would still show up, but discussions would look weird as a result of it. Troublesome members are best off having their posting priviliges (permanently) revoked, IMO.
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Re: This forum will be dead by early 2015

Postby Paloaltoguy » Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:35 pm

:lol:
Last edited by Paloaltoguy on Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: This forum will be dead by early 2015

Postby Paloaltoguy » Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:55 pm

Rock wrote:
MrPeabody wrote:This forum won't die because of the network effect. Everyone goes to the sites with a high google ranking and most of the rest of the Internet is ignored. It seems that a forum can continue with garbage content and trolls forever. Look at craiglist. It's even worse. My question is once a website achieves a google ranking, how does it every die?


Yes, I reckon Marcos doesn't really understand the dynamics of web forum business like Winston does. The HA archives are a goldmine full of all kinds of stuff. Even if new posting ceased to a halt, the site could probably go on for years with the 75-100K unique visitors per month and continue to generate Winston his 1.5-2K monthly income. Posting activity may be way down but I think current monthly visitor numbers are not far from peak levels.

It's his site. Let him do as he pleases. If any of us don't like it, we should just vote with our feet the way others have. There are plenty of other forum options out there.


Bingo to the first part. Dude is pretty much clueless. The problem with your assessment is the current desktop web is dying along with websites. I'd say he has maybe another 2 years before everything is in concept repositories for web 3.0
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Re: This forum will be dead by early 2015

Postby newlifeinphilippines » Wed Dec 03, 2014 7:36 pm

Paloaltoguy wrote:
MrPeabody wrote:This forum won't die because of the network effect. Everyone goes to the sites with a high google ranking and most of the rest of the Internet is ignored. It seems that a forum can continue with garbage content and trolls forever. Look at craiglist. It's even worse. My question is once a website achieves a google ranking, how does it every die?


Yes it will. One change to Google ranking algorithm and he's gone... Unlike Craig's list which is a standalone product, all of his traffic comes from Google searches. People read a few lines and then click X or click on something else that catches their eye... like ads for women.



thats how i got wiped out in 2012 when google slapped my sites so i lost most of my search traffic. I changed tactics now (and what i promoted) and dont really rely on google. Recurring members helps a bit but only up to a certain point. If you rely on google for all your new members and you lose that rank then you will bleed members quickly unless the initial members come back at a higher rate than your bleed loss but im not sure winston has enough repeat visitors right now that would offset a google loss.
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