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Politically correct users are trolling the forum

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Re: Politically correct users are trolling the forum

Postby MattHanson1990 » Fri Mar 06, 2015 3:23 am

WorldTraveler wrote:
MattHanson1990 wrote:
For me I'd rather work part time because I'm trying to learn to live off less, and I'm wanting to move to Mexico.


I think you should do what your passionate about as long as it makes enough to provide you the lifestyle you want. I too have been trying to learn to live on less. I'm almost ghosting! Unfortunately there is a cost to working. You have to pay to get there and pay for lunch when there, unless you bring your lunch everyday. Every dollar saved is a dollar I can use for travel :D


Plus I'm trying to avoid using a car, but where I live a car is a necessity because the bus system is pathetic; it only runs from 6 am to 7 pm and only on weekdays. It would be so nice if cars were expensive enough that only rich people can afford them, and then public transportation would be more extensive.
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Re: Politically correct users are trolling the forum

Postby Cornfed » Fri Mar 06, 2015 5:35 am

WorldTraveler wrote:
Tsar wrote:One of the reasons why I stopped openly posting was because of some users blaming the individual when the individual isn't to blame. It seems like Millennial men are easy targets. The older generations lived through more prosperous times and times where jobs were plentiful and men could get good jobs, and a college degree actually meant something. They don't know what it's like for the Millennial men in America.


I'm not so sure that it's ever been so good for any generation. I don't feel the Millennials have it worse than any generation before them.

What the f**k are you talking about? At the time and place I was born if you wanted a job you could wander into a factory, be hired immediately, decide you didn’t like the job after an hour, wander into another factory etc., find an easy job and earn enough to support a wife and family. If you wanted a higher end job and had graduated high school with good marks you could fill out a single application form and get offers from three or four government departments. Now getting some crappy at-will position where you can barely keep body and soul together is like winning the lottery for many young men. Sure, some baby boomers are deservedly ending up on the scrap heap as well, but that doesn't change the shit sandwich that young men (i.e. men under about 45) have today. You really are a lunatic.
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Re: Politically correct users are trolling the forum

Postby WorldTraveler » Fri Mar 06, 2015 6:59 am

Cornfed wrote:
WorldTraveler wrote:
Tsar wrote:One of the reasons why I stopped openly posting was because of some users blaming the individual when the individual isn't to blame. It seems like Millennial men are easy targets. The older generations lived through more prosperous times and times where jobs were plentiful and men could get good jobs, and a college degree actually meant something. They don't know what it's like for the Millennial men in America.


I'm not so sure that it's ever been so good for any generation. I don't feel the Millennials have it worse than any generation before them.

What the f**k are you talking about? At the time and place I was born if you wanted a job you could wander into a factory, be hired immediately, decide you didn’t like the job after an hour, wander into another factory etc., find an easy job and earn enough to support a wife and family. If you wanted a higher end job and had graduated high school with good marks you could fill out a single application form and get offers from three or four government departments. Now getting some crappy at-will position where you can barely keep body and soul together is like winning the lottery for many young men. Sure, some baby boomers are deservedly ending up on the scrap heap as well, but that doesn't change the shit sandwich that young men (i.e. men under about 45) have today. You really are a lunatic.


It is a crappy job market now for everyone not just Millennials. The job market doesn't give a shit about if you are a Millennial, Gen Xer, or a Baby Boomer. Yes there are no factory jobs now in America, but there haven't been for long time. All people have to adapt or die. I don't see it getting any better anytime soon. Recent immigrants will work for less. Other jobs get outsourced overseas. There are no free lunches and I don't ever remember a time were. there were any. :D
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Re: Politically correct users are trolling the forum

Postby Rock » Fri Mar 06, 2015 7:27 am

I suspect the job market for 20 somethings in USA say 25-40 years ago vs. today is like this:

1. Back then, if you could manage to get a practical 4 year degree in a decent university and get at least average grades and were willing to play the game (wear the monkey suit, say the right BS in interviews, etc.), you could easily work your way up the ladder and attain well paid middle management position in a Fortune 500 or similar firm. To do this, you just needed some ambition, willingness to conform to business norms, and and IQ of say 110 or better (maybe even 100 if you had some luck on your side).

OR

You could pursue a blue collar route and also get to stage where you were pulling in decent money, especially if your industry was unionized and/or just very profitable.

2. Fast forward to 2015. Most intellectual processes which require averageish human IQ can be handled by machines and computers or outsourced to certain third worlders. On blue collar side, China has come-in and created the world's most practically efficient and cheapest industrial supply chains so they now handle the bulk of world's manufacturing with their own citizens of course. Giant corporations have gotten their act together so much that all the low lying fruit is gone. Average people with average intelligence in USA have been made largely redundant. They can be used in low value added subsistence roles in low paying service industry jobs, that's about it.

To be financially successful now in USA, assuming you start from scratch, you need to be capable of becoming a doctor, lawyer, certain types of engineers, banker, management or IT consultant OR you've gotta be out of the box creative and entrepreneurial enough to create your own high paying business in some industry including those opportunities online. You could also do decently as a uni professor, or some other kind of niche professional. My point is:

A FEW DECADES AGO, IT WAS VERY DOABLE FOR AN AVERAGE MIDDLE CLASS BACKGROUND TYPE OF MALE WILLING TO JUMP THROUGH ALL THE HOOPS TO AHIEVE THE SO-CALLED AMERICAN DREAM BUT NOW, YOU REALLY NEED TO BE WAY ABOVE AVERAGE IN SOME WAY - IQ, CREATIVITY, OR EXCEPTIONAL LUCK - IF YOU DON'T COME FROM A BACKGROUND WHERE YOU ALREADY HAVE WEALTH, ASSETS, AND SPECIAL PRIVILEGE FROM YOUR FAMILY. YOU BEST BE SOMEHOW IN TOP 5%, BETTER TOP 1% OR BEST TOP 0.1% IN SOME PRACTICAL WAY IF YOU WANNA MAKE IT FROM SCRATCH IN USA!
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Re: Politically correct users are trolling the forum

Postby Cornfed » Fri Mar 06, 2015 8:00 am

Rock wrote:To be financially successful now in USA, assuming you start from scratch, you need to be capable of becoming a doctor, lawyer, certain types of engineers, banker, management or IT consultant OR you've gotta be out of the box creative and entrepreneurial enough to create your own high paying business in some industry including those opportunities online. You could also do decently as a uni professor, or some other kind of niche professional. My point is:

A FEW DECADES AGO, IT WAS VERY DOABLE FOR AN AVERAGE MIDDLE CLASS BACKGROUND TYPE OF MALE WILLING TO JUMP THROUGH ALL THE HOOPS TO AHIEVE THE SO-CALLED AMERICAN DREAM BUT NOW, YOU REALLY NEED TO BE WAY ABOVE AVERAGE IN SOME WAY - IQ, CREATIVITY, OR EXCEPTIONAL LUCK - IF YOU DON'T COME FROM A BACKGROUND WHERE YOU ALREADY HAVE WEALTH, ASSETS, AND SPECIAL PRIVILEGE FROM YOUR FAMILY. YOU BEST BE SOMEHOW IN TOP 5%, BETTER TOP 1% OR BEST TOP 0.1% IN SOME PRACTICAL WAY IF YOU WANNA MAKE IT FROM SCRATCH IN USA!

You too don't get it. Intelligent and gifted men who are not part of the elite are who the system is now very well designed to keep out and keep marginalized.
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Re: Politically correct users are trolling the forum

Postby Cornfed » Fri Mar 06, 2015 8:21 am

OOps, oh well, duplicate posts call for duplicate posts.
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Re: Politically correct users are trolling the forum

Postby Rock » Fri Mar 06, 2015 9:10 am

Cornfed wrote:OOps, oh well, duplicate posts call for duplicate posts.


Ok then, here goes lol:

No Cornfed. You've been reading too much about conspiracy theories. A bright enough person can make it, and then do it again and again, even today. Graduates at top MBA programs, medical schools, law schools, etc. still have great odds of earning big coin as do business developers who create a successful small business. But it tends to take exceptional talent and/or intellect to go one of these routes. The bar for making it is just so much higher now than it used to be. That's one byproduct of automation and globalization for America which by the way has been shrinking gradually these decades in terms of global GDP share.
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Re: Politically correct users are trolling the forum

Postby Cornfed » Fri Mar 06, 2015 9:38 am

Rock wrote:
Cornfed wrote:OOps, oh well, duplicate posts call for duplicate posts.


Ok then, here goes lol:

No Cornfed. You've been reading too much about conspiracy theories. A bright enough person can make it, and then do it again and again, even today. Graduates at top MBA programs, medical schools, law schools, etc. still have great odds of earning big coin as do business developers who create a successful small business. But it tends to take exceptional talent and/or intellect to go one of these routes. The bar for making it is just so much higher now than it used to be. That's one byproduct of automation and globalization for America which by the way has been shrinking gradually these decades in terms of global GDP share.

Answered in the other thread, unless we want to go on forever.
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Re: Politically correct users are trolling the forum

Postby Rock » Fri Mar 06, 2015 1:27 pm

Cornfed wrote:
Rock wrote:
Cornfed wrote:OOps, oh well, duplicate posts call for duplicate posts.


Ok then, here goes lol:

No Cornfed. You've been reading too much about conspiracy theories. A bright enough person can make it, and then do it again and again, even today. Graduates at top MBA programs, medical schools, law schools, etc. still have great odds of earning big coin as do business developers who create a successful small business. But it tends to take exceptional talent and/or intellect to go one of these routes. The bar for making it is just so much higher now than it used to be. That's one byproduct of automation and globalization for America which by the way has been shrinking gradually these decades in terms of global GDP share.

Answered in the other thread, unless we want to go on forever.


Yes, let's keep it in the other thread since what you and I have been talking about are on more on topic (OP) there than here.
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Re: Politically correct users are trolling the forum

Postby MattHanson1990 » Fri Mar 06, 2015 5:31 pm

WorldTraveler wrote:
Cornfed wrote:
WorldTraveler wrote:
Tsar wrote:One of the reasons why I stopped openly posting was because of some users blaming the individual when the individual isn't to blame. It seems like Millennial men are easy targets. The older generations lived through more prosperous times and times where jobs were plentiful and men could get good jobs, and a college degree actually meant something. They don't know what it's like for the Millennial men in America.


I'm not so sure that it's ever been so good for any generation. I don't feel the Millennials have it worse than any generation before them.

What the f**k are you talking about? At the time and place I was born if you wanted a job you could wander into a factory, be hired immediately, decide you didn’t like the job after an hour, wander into another factory etc., find an easy job and earn enough to support a wife and family. If you wanted a higher end job and had graduated high school with good marks you could fill out a single application form and get offers from three or four government departments. Now getting some crappy at-will position where you can barely keep body and soul together is like winning the lottery for many young men. Sure, some baby boomers are deservedly ending up on the scrap heap as well, but that doesn't change the shit sandwich that young men (i.e. men under about 45) have today. You really are a lunatic.


It is a crappy job market now for everyone not just Millennials. The job market doesn't give a shit about if you are a Millennial, Gen Xer, or a Baby Boomer. Yes there are no factory jobs now in America, but there haven't been for long time. All people have to adapt or die. I don't see it getting any better anytime soon. Recent immigrants will work for less. Other jobs get outsourced overseas. There are no free lunches and I don't ever remember a time were. there were any. :D


And is it crappy for both men and women? Or is it better for women and definitely crappy for men?
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Re: Politically correct users are trolling the forum

Postby HouseMD » Fri Mar 06, 2015 6:38 pm

If you view anything that is counter to your own view as "trolling" then your life will be a sad endeavor indeed.
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Re: Politically correct users are trolling the forum

Postby Devil Dog » Fri Mar 06, 2015 8:45 pm

Rock wrote:I suspect the job market for 20 somethings in USA say 25-40 years ago vs. today is like this:

1. Back then, if you could manage to get a practical 4 year degree in a decent university and get at least average grades and were willing to play the game (wear the monkey suit, say the right BS in interviews, etc.), you could easily work your way up the ladder and attain well paid middle management position in a Fortune 500 or similar firm. To do this, you just needed some ambition, willingness to conform to business norms, and and IQ of say 110 or better (maybe even 100 if you had some luck on your side).

OR

You could pursue a blue collar route and also get to stage where you were pulling in decent money, especially if your industry was unionized and/or just very profitable.

2. Fast forward to 2015. Most intellectual processes which require averageish human IQ can be handled by machines and computers or outsourced to certain third worlders. On blue collar side, China has come-in and created the world's most practically efficient and cheapest industrial supply chains so they now handle the bulk of world's manufacturing with their own citizens of course. Giant corporations have gotten their act together so much that all the low lying fruit is gone. Average people with average intelligence in USA have been made largely redundant. They can be used in low value added subsistence roles in low paying service industry jobs, that's about it.

To be financially successful now in USA, assuming you start from scratch, you need to be capable of becoming a doctor, lawyer, certain types of engineers, banker, management or IT consultant OR you've gotta be out of the box creative and entrepreneurial enough to create your own high paying business in some industry including those opportunities online. You could also do decently as a uni professor, or some other kind of niche professional. My point is:

A FEW DECADES AGO, IT WAS VERY DOABLE FOR AN AVERAGE MIDDLE CLASS BACKGROUND TYPE OF MALE WILLING TO JUMP THROUGH ALL THE HOOPS TO AHIEVE THE SO-CALLED AMERICAN DREAM BUT NOW, YOU REALLY NEED TO BE WAY ABOVE AVERAGE IN SOME WAY - IQ, CREATIVITY, OR EXCEPTIONAL LUCK - IF YOU DON'T COME FROM A BACKGROUND WHERE YOU ALREADY HAVE WEALTH, ASSETS, AND SPECIAL PRIVILEGE FROM YOUR FAMILY. YOU BEST BE SOMEHOW IN TOP 5%, BETTER TOP 1% OR BEST TOP 0.1% IN SOME PRACTICAL WAY IF YOU WANNA MAKE IT FROM SCRATCH IN USA!


Rock, I agree with some of this but here are a few exceptions:

1. It is still not difficult for a young person with drive and intelligence to find good corporate jobs. I know many who have done this in recent years. However, you can't count on that working out with a meaningless degree from a marginal university. A degree in business from the University of Texas means a hell of a lot more than a degree in sociology from North Texas State. And you must be able to balance out the picture by being socially adept enough to interview well.

2. It is very hard for a newly graduated lawyer to find a well paying job unless the lawyer is a graduate from an upper tier school. So I would not include them in your list of successful professions.

3. I strongly disagree with this statement "you've gotta be out of the box creative and entrepreneurial enough to create your own high paying business in some industry including those opportunities online."

Execution trumps ideas in the world of entrepreneurialism and small business. High IQ guys with great ideas who will never actually do anything are a dime a dozen. OTOH if you look around, you see people of average intelligence who took an OK idea, executed it well, and have all the money they want or need.

Dismissing it as something which takes incredibly high intelligence or family connections just feeds the "I don't have a chance" mentality of HA. One friend of mine comes to mind. He has never said anything to this extent but I know for a fact that his business has made him a millionaire. Passive online income? No, lawn service. He gets contracts with individuals and businesses to cut, edge and prune. There was no originality to his "idea". Success came through superior execution of a mundane idea.

Here is an analogy: People who don't know better think that you have to be a racehorse to succeed in entrepreneurship or small business. But the fact is that most successful people are plow horses. Their successes come not from superior intelligence but rather from having the willingness to put their best efforts into a venture.
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Re: Politically correct users are trolling the forum

Postby MarcosZeitola » Fri Mar 06, 2015 11:42 pm

HouseMD wrote:If you view anything that is counter to your own view as "trolling" then your life will be a sad endeavor indeed.


This, times a thousand.
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Re: Politically correct users are trolling the forum

Postby OutWest » Sat Mar 07, 2015 4:11 am

MarcosZeitola wrote:
HouseMD wrote:If you view anything that is counter to your own view as "trolling" then your life will be a sad endeavor indeed.


This, times a thousand.


We have some angry men here. They are angry that nothing in their world works, and dodge responsibility by insisting that nothing can possibly work in this world.
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Re: Politically correct users are trolling the forum

Postby Cornfed » Sat Mar 07, 2015 4:53 am

You geezers should really pull you heads out of your asses and see how the world actually works now.
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