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I'm wondering how important it is to you men for a woman you date or marry to be submissive to you? Also, please let us know if you are single or divorced? I'm particularly interested in knowing how important you believe it is for the woman you marry or married to be submissive to you?
By submissive, I mean the propensity for a woman to yield to her husbands will, obey him, and go along with him being in charge. I'd say there are two dimensions to submissiveness. One is philosophy, and the other are the personality and character traits that cause a woman to actually do it.
By philosophy, I mean she believes a wife is supposed to submit to her husband, or something along those lines. There are some women who don't really believe much about this but are submissive just because they have the kind of personality to let someone else lead. There are those who believe in it, but find difficulty practicing it, and there are those who believe in it and practice it.
Being Submissive is #1. It is the most important thing for a wife.
Faggots and Maginas would believe otherwise. That is a scientific fact.
I am against submission. Everyone should think for themselves and stand up for what they believe in. This is the position of the Old Testament. Was Rebecca submissive to Isaac? Moses argued with God. The daughters of Zelophehad argued against Moses and God, and won. Truth beats everything.
What I expect from a wife is that she understands that men and women are different, so a husband and wife should be responsible for different areas. In shared decisions, both sides just need to be reasonable.
I have been married 24 years and my wife isn't submissive at all.
The Bible commands that women should be in subjection to their husbands and obedient.
1 Peter 3:5-6 KJV
There are numerous verses that state women are to be submissive and I 100% agree with Johnny. Submissiveness is THE number 1 trait. Otherwise you might as well marry the enemy. Are you going to take turns as to who gets to be the man or are those roles preselected already? Your choice. Once you defer to her, then you're her woman, then she'll lose respect for you, and then it will be over.
I don't like the idea for her to be submissive. I think a woman like that would probably like a MAN that's like that, for one. For another, there's a whole shitload of problems that can come from that. Supposing I'm not there? Is she going to servile to whoever breaks in? How is that going to impact our kids? I do think that she shouldn't be reflexibiely contentious just to prove she's not submissive or to excite that sense of independence, though. I would say a woman that's situational is important. I don't want to marry an enemy, but I also don't want to marry a slave. I'm not looking to f**k a mannequin, you know?
That's extreme thinking on your part. Besides such people don't exist. She's submissive for her man, not anyone else. Submissive doesnt mean imbecile. It just means she knows who's in charge and doesnt try to overrule the man.
Very true. Behind every successful relationship is a submissive woman. Unfortunately, most guys don't want submissive women they want sexy women. Sexiness and submissiveness are two traits in women rarely found together, this is true even in the Philippines. Most of the sexy women I've seen in the Philippines rate poor as house wives, mothers and girlfriends.
Before I married my wife I met a Filipina online that was very sexy and liked me. However, I quickly realized she wasn't submissive enough and so I dumped her.
1. Friendly and polite
2. Don't complain
3. Easy on your wallet
4. Are not attention whores
5. Cook and clean for you without being asked
“Every time a President leaves the White House after two terms, there is a recession within the next year"
Adama: I disagree. I figure if she's that style, it'll come out when things are serious. Just like if someone's arrogant, they'll also probably be arrogant behind the wheel- the more people that are in it, the more people that'll get killed in that crash. I figure arrogant people don't tend to catch their own mistakes & aren't real big on people pointing them out (or even saying something that can be implying that they even COULD do something of low quality). Same deal with my idea of being submissive- she'll crumple when shit goes down.
It's not a character flaw. It is a choice. Big difference.
Being submissive doesn't mean not thinking for yourself or standing up for what you believe in. Being submissive just means letting the other person lead. Submitting to their leadership. And using ones mind, intelligence and opinions to help the leader to make good decisions, but letting him have the final say. And if the leader abuses his position he gets relieved of his duty. The submissive party is not without power. Mr Spock was not powerless, he was the captain of the Enterprise whenever Kirk was away or whenever he got out of line. It's submission of leadership, not submission of everything.
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Except for Rebecca, none of those are examples of not being submissive. Do you think Jacob was right to deceive his father? It seems like the lesson is not to imitate Jacob's treatment of his father, but to see how the same sorts of things happened to him that he did to his father, and that in spite of his and his mother's trickery, God was still working things together for His purposes. When Jacob went to stay with Laban, Laban tricked and deceived him in multiple ways. Isaac was blind and Jacob pretended to be his brother. Laban did not give the good-looking wife he'd agreed to for Jacob on his wedding night. In the dark, he swapped out the less attractive sister. That's similar to what Jacob did to Isaac, with his mother's help. Rebecca did submit to her husband on another occasion.
Sarah is also an example of submission, and traditional Judaism does believe that wives are to submit to their husbands. Sarah called Abraham 'lord' (adonai) and God called Abraham her 'lord' (ba'al). She was the type of wife Abraham could tell to cook 35 pounds of flour into bread for three visitors while he handled the cheese and veal.
God also gave husbands the authority to cancel their wives vows, but not the other way around. Ancient Hebrews knew that women were to submit to their husbands. Saul insulted his son once by calling him 'the son of a rebellious woman.'
Moses interceding for Israel was not rebellion against God. You say the 'daughters of Zelophehad argued against Moses', but they went to him as the judge with a case for him, that of women inheriting land if there is no son. Being submissive doesn't mean they can't request their legal rights. An example of people who were unsubmissive were Korah and Dothan and the crowd that actually rebelled against Moses' authority, and the ground opened up and swallowed them after Moses prophesied that it would. The 'daughters of Zelophehad must have acknowledged Moses' authority as a judge. They did not just go out with swords and go all "Killl Bill" on their relatives and just take the land. They submitted to Moses and the legal process.
'Submissive' does not mean not exerting one's rights.
The New Testament lists Sarah as an example of submissive, and I believe Judaism looks at her as an example of submission, too. She did complain about Hagar, but she went to Abraham about it instead of just kicking her out, which is submissive. She followed Abraham's decision. He was in charge and her actions showed that.
A quality marine who gets out of boot camp is submissive. He submits to his commanding officers. The military would not work well without this. That doesn't mean that he can't have ideas, opinion, creativity, and strength. A good sergeant will submit to his lieutenant, but given their level of expertise, he will likely give the lieutenant a number of suggestions. He will likely speak his mind, but his words and actions should acknowledge the authority of the lieutenant. This doesn't make the sergeant weak, a doormat, or lacking in personality.
I'm not talking about submissive as passiveness. I suppose that is one kind of submissiveness, and I did mention that in my post. But that's not my main focus. I'm talking about a woman submitting to her man. Not a woman who just does what every man tells her or what every stranger tells her. That's some kind of personality defect.
A woman can have personality, strength of character, ideas, boldness, even, and still know that she must submit to her husband and have to strength of character and self control over her emotions to do so.
When I was a kid, I saw the Jetson's. George Jetson's boss had this harpy of a wife who'd talk to him on the futuristic TV telephone, giving him an earful. I don't know if any of you have seen 'How to Murder your Wife' with Jack Lemmon and Verna Lisi. Jack Lemmon's lawyer's wife was a bit of a harpy type.
I think a lot of women gravitate toward the harpy type role if they wear the pants or if they try to have an 'equal' marriage. It sure helps if, in her understanding of ethics and values, she believes it is the ethical thing to do for a wife to submit to her husband. I don't think a man should mistreat a woman, be domineering, selfish, or any of that stuff. But if he's in charge, it makes her feel safer and helps keep her out of that harpy mode. In my own experience, my wife being submissive and getting more sex go hand in hand. And I'm not talking about any kind of kinky submissiveness, just every day life attitude.
Submission and respect are closely intertwined. My wife doesn't insult me or call me names, not even joking. I don't do that to her either. I read about wives calling their husbands a-holes or whatever, which is supposed to be joking, but I don't think that kind of disrespect is acceptable in a marriage. Children should honor their parents and should never call them names like that, and wives are to have a respect for their husbands and name-calling goes against that. And men should be protectors of their wives, not call them names, etc.
One of the advantages of getting a wife from certain cultures abroad, such as Asian cultures, is that a lot of these cultures put value on submission and on wives submitting to their husbands. A mistake an American husband could make early on is to overemphasize equality, equal decision making, etc. It's fine to have some of that, but from time to time make it clear that you are making the decision as the husband and make sure she can accept that. It can make her feel safe and protected. Being the one to bear the weight of the family decisions is something you don't want to put on her. She can lose respect for you, and be tempted to harp on you and give you an earful. If a woman doesn't respect you, it's harder for her to give herself to you sexually.
If I were young and looking for a wife again, I'd certain have submission up there as a high priority. I did check my wife's beliefs on that. I think I could have done a better job of setting the boundaries early on just by the way I interacted with her to reinforce the idea that I would be the boss and what behaviors I respected as far as respect go. We've had to recalibrate. She got disrespectful pretty badly for a time when she was really hormonal. I prayed about it, a long (mental) list of prayer requests, asking God to speak to her about it. She told me a couple of days later that God had spoken to her about this stuff, and went through those things I'd prayed to God to speak to her about that related to our marriage, including submission related issues-- detailed stuff. She touched on nearly every issue I'd prayed that night, though she told me over the next few weeks that He'd spoken to her about a couple of other things from my other two requests. That recalibrated things in our marriage after she repented. But I also realized I had to set boundaries as far as the behaviors I wanted in terms of communication, etc. to fine tune some things. I think it's a man's responsibility to give her a little emotional nudge now and then if she gets off course in showing respect or being submissive.
If you are dating a woman, thinking of marrying her, you can let her know what you expect. If you have an Asian girlfriend, you can mention several times throughout the relationship that you are looking for a wife who will obey you, who will have sex with you X times a week (or day), who will cook, clean, etc. In Indonesia, when it comes to career decisions as to whether to move for a man's job or a woman's, usually the answer is something like 'ikut suami, lah'-- 'follow the husband, of course'. If you have the way she is raised in favor of you being in charge later (and her being respectful and not stressed out as a result of it) that's a big plus. You then only have to deal with her natural spunkiness and personality when it comes to submission issues. You have to set some boundaries and point it out if she crosses them. But if she's from a feminist culture, you'd have an uphill battle of deprogramming her feminist beliefs, or just being so uber macho and alpha that you override that stuff, and that doesn't come naturally for a lot of men, or the feminist culture hasn't trained us for it.
I also think if you take the same woman and you put her in a marriage with a guy and he doesn't set any boundaries and expectations and keeps emphasizing "We make decisions together" versus the same woman and the same woman in a relationship where he makes it clear, kindly, that he is in charge and that he has expectations, you can have very different outcomes. The woman with the wimpy western guy may end up ruling the roost, showing disrespect to her husband, not sleeping with him unless she feels like it, which may not be much if he's wimpy. But if he's got his act together, and is responsible, and he's in charge in the relationship and has expectations in terms of respect and sex, he could be well respected in his marriage, get plenty of sex, and have a hot meal waiting for him on the table. It depends on the woman, but I think this could be the case in a lot of marriages with emotionally stable Asian women from cultures where the man is supposed to be in charge. If the husband fulfills this expectation, that's low stress for her. She respects him, and therefore speaks kindly to him, respects his decisions, and has sex with him often.
I think it's a good idea to come up with rituals to reinforce submission. i.e. telling her to tell you every morning "thank you for being my boyfriend / husband", and thanking you after sex. Or buying her a necklace or bracelet with some words inscribed on it to remind her of her role. Domestic disciple (spanking) is also a very good idea.
And this too :
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She should submit to her husband's leadership. Doesn't mean she can't have opinions or think about things. She should be submissive in the sense that she obeys her husband's decisions. Also doesn't mean she has to agree. And she can express her opinion, and he should listen, but the husband should make the choices.