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Let's suppose a guy is ugly and the only thing he has going for himself is that he's American, white and moderately well off financially. Where can this ugly guy get the most bang for the buck in attractive women? Of course attractive is relative. The most attractive African woman certainly doesn't look like the most attractive blondie in Sweden. So to make things simple I'll say the most attractive woman by local standards. In other words, the women all local guys chase after. The top 10% of women.
In Latin America everyone is a wannabe white. So being white isn't special here. There's no sense of trying to imitate western culture, because everyone is already western. The creme of the crop are inbred whites that separate themselves from the rest of the population. A white man's main advantage is in trading down to a Mestiza or Indian. Bolivia is where a man would have the most status using this logic. A white man can forget places like Argentina or Uruguay in which the countries are more or less white nationalist in appearance but operate under latin stupidity.
I have no clue about Eastern Europe. The men there seem to be natural born weight lifters.
I know nothing about Africa. But I would guess a white guy would be a god here. Has anyone been?
I've been to northern Asia but haven't tried dating anyone here. Specifically I've been to China for business and I work in a Chinese company. My sense is that Chinese women can basically be bought like something in a 7-11. I have no idea what goes on in their little heads. Love or happiness or whatever they call it, seems to be a straightforward business transaction. Japanese and Korean women seem to be a little more nationalistic. They don't welcome an army of white men to rape and breed them like Chinese women do.
The majority of posters on this forum go to southeast asia, specifically the Philippines. Of course a place like the Philippines hits all the checkmarks. The women are short, brown and poor. So any average white guy can walk in feeling like a tall handsome white king.
No experience in India. From what I understand stupid white hippie chicks are regularly raped there when they walk down the wrong road. This indicates a liking towards white women, but I'm not sure if it indicates any status for white men. I know Indians have strong family pressures so even if they see a white guy they fancy most won't make the move.
My only experience with middle easterners is going to a Mosque. The top arabs look more or less white. Sort of of like jews. If I see them in public I'd probably mistake them for Mexican mestizos.
Remember this question is specifically about where an UGLY white guy can get the most bang for the buck. Not average or handsome.
I'll make a poll.
Last edited by drealm on October 18th, 2015, 9:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
Too many problems here to get a straight answer. How ugly is the man? What is considered hottest? Does race matter in this? Is this about wife-hunting or just dating? How willing are you to make sacrifices and get into a living situation abroad where you can actually have a real chance to find and date these hot women?
I know you said you'd simplify it to attractive women by local standards, but I don't get that part. Why does what local men find attractive matter? Depending on where you go there's a good chance that won't coincide with your preferences anyway.
I'm willing to try to help even though you're not in my tribe.
Let's a say below a 5/10.
By hottest I don't mean X country vs Y country. I mean just whatever the local guys hit on most. I assume this is what foreigners will like too.
The guy's preference doesn't matter.
This is about exploiting women for casual fun and treating them like shit with the least amount of commitment possible. Of course a guy's intentions probably won't match the girl's intentions. Some guys will probably be upfront about their intentions and other's wont.
I'm asking this as a hypothetical situation for all ugly white guys. Most men aren't willing to do anything. Me, personally, if I pursued this path I would only do this as an extended vacation or for job relocation within my current company or for retirement. I wouldn't be willing to sacrifice my current income stream.
Assuming a foreigners preference matches local preference this increases competition.
I'm asking this as a hypothetical question for all white guys. But if you are considering me in particular I would only consider this question with a flagrantly asshole goal, similiar to WillNDowd. I don't think you want to help with this goal.
Might be too low then. White women are incredibly biased against ugly guys. I would say 7/10 would generally be the threshold, if I had to guess.
Sometimes, but not always. A lot of white guys end up with foreign women the local guys don't want. They're none the wiser, these white guys. So I wouldn't worry much about what the local guys prefer. Good chance they're looking for something different than you are.
Then go to Philippines.
You wouldn't be able to do that. It's not like you. It's easy to talk like a psychopath, but doing something against your nature isn't so easy as you might think.
Without residing abroad, there's really no good way to find and date the hottest women. It takes time, lots of effort, and, of course, being there for more than a vacation.
They usually don't compete with each other. Foreigners usually get the local rejects.
It won't matter if you're not going to live abroad anyway. You'll be limited to p4p for the hottest. OK, then I don't want to help. Suit yourself. But sure is funny you spurn those "outside your tribe," and then ask those same outsiders for advice.
What is this tribe I keep hearing about? I could have sworn you guys, Ghost and Drealm, belonged to the same tribe of honorable co-alpha men?
I am a bit confused.
As for the question in OP: an ugly white guy can get a beautiful woman wherever he goes, as long as he is wealthier then the local men. It's the rule of supply and demand. In America, if you are ugly and rich you may succeed, but when a woman has the option of going for a man who is not only well-to-do but also happens to look good, it's not hard to guess which one she will choose. Now you go to a country where wealthier guys are hard to find, and suddenly you're a catch.
I think I don't have to tell you, your preferences are part of the problem. Go to any given country and most of the time, the palest, tallest, whitest looking people make up the upper classes. White Latinas, the Spanish-Chinese elites of the Philippines, the descendants of the colonial masters in any given former colony... if these are the girls you are interested in, you have very little leverage to get them. What can you offer them that a handsome man from their own social class and background cannot give them? Whereas to the shorter, darker Indian types you are an instant upgrade.
If the shorter, darker, often curvier type shows you genuine affection, what is the problem? You cannot help to like what you like, to want what you want, but I advice you to give different types of women a try. You may be amazed by the results.
When you say you are "moderately well off financially", what does that mean? Can you give a round about figure e.g. a networth of between 250k to 500K USD(or whatever). I would have thought if you were doing ok with money that even if you are "ugly" you'd still do ok. Most people have no money, if you have money you have a huge advantage.
Why not Russia or Eastern Europe? I don't understand why you don't consider women from that region, drealm? Why don't you check it out instead of making assumptions about Eastern Europe?
The truth is for very good reasons is that attractive women are bias against ugly men because they know they don't have to go there.
Why is that hard to understand and why is it the right for some guy to say that unfair and that the rules should be changed?
If you really consider yourself a 5 out of 10, you not only have low self-esteem but bought into whatever nonsense a woman has told you.
As I've said before around here, you must minimize the negatives. Do you have a personality? No? You better develop one. Are you fat/too skinny? Find a nutritionist and figure out how to gain/lose weight and start pumping iron. If you have the money side of it solved, start hanging out in more stimulating social circles like art exhibits, classical music, etc.
You also must date as many women as humanly possible. Eventually you will find an attractive women who puts less a value on the looks of a man vs/ how she's treated by that man.
Like I said you have money, so the security a woman needs to bare children is already present.
I thought this deserved addressing too. You're looking at all this as a pure transaction. It could work in a city like Shanghai I think, but you're going to lose. It will amount to less honest p4p, and hollow pleasure. I can't even imagine you really doing it because I know it's not what you really want.
And if you haven't truly given up on wife-hunting, viewing it as a pure transaction is going to put you on the fast track to getting used by a woman. You've made such a sweeping statement about how mating works in a huge country of over one billion people based on your extremely brief interaction with spoiled bitches in a city that isn't anything like the rest of China at all. I know you're frustrated, but come on - that's dumb and that kind of bullshit is only going to cloud your judgment.
I could tell you why I don't think you're really hopeless, but I doubt you'll really listen and do anything about it. And besides, your thinking is so apparently off-base now that you'd be going into the mating battlefield with bad intel.
I also ask my mechanic, dentist, doctor, plumber and electrician for advice. Do you think these people are in my tribe?
Then who are in your tribe, if not Ghost? I wonder.
My data doesn't support your hypothesis.
3 other people.
You just have to look at the type of men that get these women. What is it they have, that you don't? And what can you realistically do to change that? If nothing can be done, nothing can be done. But I think having a good income, being well-dressed and well-spoken, may just be bigger selling points then a pretty face alone.
That's a pretty small tribe you have there. But then again, I do not understand the concept of a "tribe", as you use it. Are these people you know in real life, or people you stay in contact with.
Either way, I am curious about your data and the facts. From what I gather, your facial features are the reason women do not find you attractive, and you are otherwise in a normal shape physically? Being a little less cautious and mysterious may help us understand your problem better. I just know that a lot of men who consider themselves hideous are actually far from hideous, the way many girls who consider themselves fat hogs are actually anorexic stick figures, and fat hogs consider themselves Miss World-tier hot.
There may be parts in the world where your looks will be appreciated more.
This is very easy to find out. Just make an online dating profile and see what kind of response you get. Try the Cupid sites: LatinAmericanCupid, ColombianCupid, FilipinoCupid, etc.