Join John Adams, world renowned Intl Matchmaker, Thurs nights 8:30 EST for Live Webcasts with FREE Prizes!
And check out Five Reasons why you should attend a FREE Live AFA Seminar! See locations and details.


Scam free! Check out Christian Filipina - Meet Asian women with Christian values! Members screened.
Exclusive book offer! 75% off! How to Meet, Date and Marry Your Filipina Wife



View Active Topics       Latest 100 Topics       View Your Posts       FAQ Topics       Switch to Mobile


Are women really that bad as MGTOW like to point out?

Discuss and talk about any general topic.

Moderators: jamesbond, fschmidt

Re: Are women really that bad as MGTOW like to point out?

Postby Teal Lantern » Thu Nov 19, 2015 11:13 am

drronnie wrote:Okay I have a harder time getting dates becauseof my social iineptness however reading stuff of people constantly bashing women I am starting to to wonder why people just can't stop and focus on other things. If people want to go their own way that is fine but then why do people make vvideos and posts with same arguments so acting the obvious. I did this before too but noI hhave more interes in aAudiophile.


These men were focusing on "other things", when they were falsely accused ...
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/edmonton-cabbie-sues-passengers-over-false-assault-allegations-1.797780
http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2014/09/false_rape_accusations_why_must_be_pretend_they_never_happen.html
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/yes-false-accusations-destroy-lives/article/2557145
не поглеждай назад. 8)

"Even an American judge is unlikely to award child support for imputed children." - FredOnEverything
User avatar
Teal Lantern
Veteran Poster
 
Posts: 2686
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:48 pm
Location: Briar Patch, Universe 25







Re: Are women really that bad as MGTOW like to point out?

Postby Yohan » Mon Nov 23, 2015 4:14 am

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/3t1t5f/meet_the_men_giving_up_on_women_martin_daubney/

http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/Magazine/article1629220.ece

Excellent article about MGTOW

These young men don't want girlfriends; they don't want children; and they don't even want to have sex. The secretive "MGTOW" movement is a fast-growing online community of disillusioned males. But are they misogynists or simply misunderstood? In interviews, Martin Daubney tracks some of them down.

Part I (Part II in comments)

David Sherratt, 18, is a chemistry student at Cardiff University. He has never had a girlfriend and isn't planning on finding one. Not now. Not ever.

"Hook-up sex is too risky for words," he says. "Girls can wake up the next day and claim you raped them. I'm genuinely too scared to go near a woman — just in case. At university, I'm made to feel like a rapist all the time… I've never had a relationship and I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon. It's just too dangerous."

Neither does he see the point of marriage, since half of them end in divorce. "Marriage is like playing Russian roulette with three bullets in the cylinder" he says firmly. "I've never been interested in having kids since I learnt about the lack of fathers' rights. The whole system is stacked against men. Our generation has been screwed over by feminism. People might say it's sad, but I'm checking out."

It would be all too easy to scoff at David's comments and dismiss him as just another angry teenager. But an increasingly militant anti-lad culture in our universities, complete with sexual-consent classes, is causing young men such as David great concern. Rather than risk an emotional battering, they are simply giving up on women.

Far from being an isolated loner, he is part of a growing, global army of men, young and old, who have had enough of women altogether — they even have a name: men going their own way, or MGTOW (pronounced "mig-tau").

The acronym may be eminently unmemorable, but that has not stopped an increasing number of British men embracing the movement and its aims. In America, the MGTOW movement has its origins in the Men's Rights Movement, which branched off from the more pro-feminist men's liberation movement in the late 1970s. Initially, groups were formed for men to meet and challenge what they considered to be the more brutal and emasculating tenets of radical feminism, but gradually they migrated online and became a powerful and vocal community.

In Britain, the movement is still in its relative infancy, but it is making great strides, particularly online. Older men, with traumatic life experiences of divorce and bitter battles over access to children, have become more militant. Outspoken groups such as Fathers for Justice — and more recently the growing number of campaign groups that have attempted to address concerns such as the high prevalence of male suicide in the under-fifties — have spawned a new wave of British MGTOWS.

There are many different shades of MGTOW thinking, but all MGTOW supporters and members have some common ground — they reject feminist theories on how patriarchy and male privilege oppress women.

Instead, they point out that men die younger, commit suicide at four times the rate of women, attain lower grades at school and university (where men are now a minority), routinely come out the loser in divorce and family courts and, if they are granted access to their children, suffer cripplingly high maintenance payments as their punitive reward.

As a result of these views, such men are making what they see as logical, factual and cost-benefit-based decisions about women, dating and sex — and their brutally stark conclusion is that it's simply not worth the risk, expense or effort.

Of course, not all the facts are in their favour: men still hold 95% of FTSE100 chief-executive jobs (there are more CEOs called John than there are female CEOs), and women make up only 29.4% of British MPs. But, even so, MGTOW supporters genuinely believe that if enough men take the MGTOW vow, society as we know it will crumble. They want women to be forced to give back the power they have spent the last century trying to secure from men. Unsurprisingly, this makes the MGTOWs unpopular with many feminists. MGTOW, says one blogger, is "a Pandora's box of male anger"; another describes it as "home of the internet's most toxic misogynists".

As a former editor of Loaded magazine, I have been studying British men for more than two decades, and while the MGTOW movement saddens me, its emergence — and its increasing prevalence — does not surprise me.

In common with many MGTOWs, Sherratt is the product of a broken home — his parents divorced when he was three — at which point he was raised by his loving mother, whom he adores. He totally rejects the accusation he is sexist, and instead based his decision to go MGTOW on hard-won life experience.

"When my parents split, although my mum was fair with my dad, she said, 'I could have taken everything, but I didn't,' " he says. "That resonated. I went to an all-boys school and, when I was 13, I was exposed to aggressive feminism during a debate on sexual consent at a nearby girls' school. All these girls had been brainwashed to believe that all men are potential rapists, and it scared the hell out of me. I love women and had never even had sex — I'm still a virgin — yet I was being accused of being a potential sex criminal. It was insane.

"I started to learn how feminists have been controlling the law and state for decades. Women aren't oppressed, they're privileged. A new religion has taken over. Misogyny is the new blasphemy. Now feminism is backfiring.

"I'm in favour of long-term relationships, but I would be very, very wary of getting into one. You don't know what could happen. I haven't had a girlfriend. I don't think that will happen. I've had no relationships and don't go out. I guess I'm interested in sex, but I don't even watch porn. It just doesn't appeal to me. I've just started university, and the issue of sexual consent on campus really, really terrifies me. There are new police guidelines that mean you have to prove consent and now I'm genuinely afraid to even go near a woman.

"Sex is too dangerous. I'm afraid of false rape allegations. I'm really into the individualism of MGTOW: not getting married or having kids, and the state generally deciding what you do with your life."

He says that he has been happier since he created his own online community, making YouTube videos under the name of Spinosaurus Kin, in which he likes to "challenge and debunk feminism", which "gives me a sense of self-worth".

"Maybe it stems from my parents' divorce," he says, "but I've always seen relationships as an add-on. They're not guaranteed. It's easier to be content on your own. I'm not capable of being lonely. I don't have many real-life friends, but via YouTube I have a great network of around 20 male friends who bring as much joy to my life as any woman could."

Doesn't he find some of the more vehement MGTOW voices misogynistic? Sherratt admits that they can be, but adds: "I don't hate women — quite the opposite, I adore people and have no hatred. There are some in the YouTube community that genuinely hate women — but they pretty much hate all men, too. You get extremists in any ideology, including feminism. "Some MGTOWs say that women are evil and inherently against men. They are a response to extreme feminism. They are symptomatic of the problem — that the system feels stacked against men."

Carl Benjamin, 36, from Swindon, runs a hugely popular YouTube channel called Sargon of Akkad, which has 194,000 subscribers and a colossal 38.8m video views — and rising. He believes MGTOW is the product of 50 years of feminism. "They are saying that politically correct culture has taken over and 'I understand the system is stacked against me'. And they're right." This view is echoed by many of the other MGTOWs I have spoken to.

Andy Keane, 34, a physics student and inventor from Birmingham, became a MGTOW a year ago after an acrimonious divorce. He is now trying to live by MGTOW's punishing "monk mode" — a strict vow of celibacy. "My experiences of women in my earlier life was that there was a lot more freedom; there was a feeling of working together toward a common goal of happiness — but my last three relationships have really left their mark on me," he says.

His high-flying wife cheated on him, and this influenced his decision. "I discovered that she had been having extra relationships when she left her Facebook account logged onto my laptop. I felt like I'd had my heart ripped out. I no longer feel I can trust that fragile part of my heart again to someone who could toss it away. I am simply worth more."

Keane feels MGTOW gives him the tools to deal with a world that has become hostile towards men. "From the beginning, the game is rigged, so I've decided to opt out. I have replaced sex and dating with dedication to study, entrepreneurship, writing and martial arts. I am exponentially more productive without the need of acceptance from the opposite gender. I am heading towards MGTOW "monk mode": to choose celibacy and self-improvement over sexual interactions and conquests."

Isn't that just opting out?

"I am sure that many women will regard us as losers, or that we should just 'man up', or are too unattractive to gain dates. But therein lies the problem for women. The next time you ask your girlfriends, 'Where have all the good men gone?', the answer is, men are going their own way." Milo Yiannopoulos, a British columnist for the conservative US website Breitbart, sees the MGTOW movement as a reflection that young men are in a crisis.

"There are hundreds of thousands of smart, creative, sensitive, fascinating, attractive young men who have given up entirely on girls," he says. "I wrote about it early this year and called it the 'sexodus': boys who retreat into porn, video games and, in some cases, horribly, suicide, because they have no reasonable prospect of a normal, healthy relationship.

"These kids aren't dorks or losers or 'manbabies' or angry men's rights activists. They're normal young men whose lives are being destroyed by wacky feminist orthodoxy and the hostility toward young men at college and in the workplace".

The veteran campaigner Erin Pizzey, 76, is the founder of the women's domestic-violence charity Refuge, and in 1971 founded the first internationally recognised women's shelter in Chiswick, west London. Now, however, she believes it is men who are seeking refuge through MGTOW — and, controversially, she thinks it is women who have created the backlash against their own gender.

"MGTOW to me is a healthy movement," she says. "It's men taking power back because they have been rendered powerless in the past 50 years. There is a generation of men saying, 'I've been burnt, I'm dropping out.' We are in uncharted territory. As women made war with men, men are beginning to say, 'Maybe this war is liberating me. I don't have to be a wage slave in order to have a relationship with a woman.' "

She believes campus life is so hostile to young men that it is putting them off going to university (another explanation is that boys are outperformed by girls at all levels of British education).

"If, as a young man, you are from a very ordinary family, where you would never consider harming a woman, then you get to university and the first thing that happens is you are all corralled into a meeting where you are told that you might rape — that's a shocking thing to do to a young man," she says. "Is there any wonder these men are disengaging?

"We need to make women responsible for their behaviour. We have spent 40-50 years pretending that we can't say anything about women because we are victim-blaming. Until we get women to take responsibility, nothing is ever going to change."

That sentiment is echoed by Karen Straughan, a Canadian blogger and co-founder of the Honey Badger Radio podcast series, in which gender issues are regularly debated. Her GirlWritesWhat YouTube channel has 110,000 subscribers and 9m views.

"MGTOWs are resisted and hated because they represent a completely new paradigm where men's needs, interests and desires matter — because they do," she says. "We should protect men from exploitation by unscrupulous women and the system that enables them, not just because doing so is necessary to convince them to get back to the grindstone, but because men are part of the human community and deserve this protection from abuse and exploitation."

This interpretation of MGTOW appeals to those who subscribe to the movement, but who also still have relationships with women. One such man is Ciaran Lovejoy, 21, a journalism student at Demontfort University who has been a MGTOW for about a year, but is in a happy, sexually fulfilling relationship — although he says he will never be trapped into having children.

"You can be a MGTOW and be in a relationship," says Ciaran, who also has a YouTube channel, Bread & Circuses. "I've been in a relationship for seven months and my girlfriend's OK with MGTOW. We have sex. I love her. It's not currently favourable for men to have children. If we split up, I would almost certainly lose my child, and if I couldn't afford to pay for it, I could face jail. Men have historically been seen as workhorses. We're disposable. Now we have the opportunity to reject that — to not be society's bitch."

For some MGTOWs, however, a lifetime of enforced solitude is the only way to answer the rise of empowered women. They are the disciples of the outer reaches of the movement, called "true forced loneliness" (TFL).

Stephen Allen, 49, a part-time cleaner and music maker, was married for eight years and divorced 10 years ago after fathering three daughters.

"I've not been in any serious relationship for 10 years and have completely given up on love, because it plainly gave up on me years ago," he says. "I haven't seen my children in 10 years. I am lonely, but I'm far from damaged. I am just very guarded. I would love nothing more than to be intimate, but I feel women use me. A couple of years ago I started a friendship with a woman and I did all her washing, cooking and cleaning, but I got very little in return. So, I've given up. "No wife is a happy life and no child equals a healthy bank balance. My message to men is simple: do not get married. Under no circumstances have children, as you will be paying a high amount of your wages to the Child Support Agency and lose everything you have worked for. Marriage will destroy most men."
User avatar
Yohan
Veteran Poster
 
Posts: 2212
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 5:05 am
Location: Tokyo, JAPAN

Re: Are women really that bad as MGTOW like to point out?

Postby Blue Murder » Mon Nov 23, 2015 4:25 am

I find it funny that these issues (circumcision, suicide, male disposability) were only issues when men stopped getting play. Where is MGTOW blowblack in the east? And no, herbivore men are not MGTOW in the least. Their thing is an entirely different dynamic. So I have to ask: MGTOW, why are you just now getting around to these issues? If you cared about men, would there not be global or at least national awareness by now?
Self-improvement addict. Always striving for perfection.
Blue Murder
Junior Poster
 
Posts: 699
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 10:25 pm
Location: Climbing that mountain; reaching that plateau.

Re: Are women really that bad as MGTOW like to point out?

Postby Yohan » Mon Nov 23, 2015 4:26 am

Part 2 correctly mentions that MGTOWs are not always alone, not all of them are against all women, some even marry...

I am happy to read that this movement is getting bigger, even causing some media to pay attention to it and not only in USA.

Interesting also the follow-up comments.

Part II

Of course there are men who have had unhappy lives and who feel hard done by by society. Does the MGTOW movement amount to any more than a posse of them getting together on the internet? Dean Esmay, the online activism director of the National Coalition for Men, a leading American men's rights group, insists that it does. He believes the brutal message of the MGTOWs has the capacity to end the gender war.

"Women need to have a conversation about this, and in a very serious way, because men are starting to hate them," he says. "This is a problem men and women need to fix together. Men can't do it on their own."

Although many people, particularly in Britain, may not have heard of MGTOW yet, it isn't a new concept. According to A Voice for Men, one of the internet's biggest men's rights forums, the first documented use of the term was in 2004. It is believed to have originated in North America.

In 2009, the growing MGTOW community began encouraging other men to reject marriage, fatherhood and even women altogether, eulogising that they should "refuse to bow, serve and kneel for the opportunity to be treated like a disposable utility". With the clarion call of "the only way to win is to not play the game", MGTOW's popularity exploded, particularly in Canada, Australia, America, Britain and Germany.

Miles Groth, professor of psychology at Wagner College in New York, first became aware of it five years ago and has seen the movement flourish on campus.

"At first I was suspicious that this was middle-aged, unhappily married men who were divorced and angry," he says. "But now there is a downward drift into the younger guys. Due to the new politically correct atmosphere on US campuses, and widely circulated statistics such as one in five American college women will be sexually assaulted, the younger men are now being treated like dangerous sexual predators and suspects. This is an appalling situation."

In common with all movements that have flourished on the internet and through social media, MGTOW has its own cabal of YouTube "thinkers" — the most high-profile are based in America and Canada. Sandman and Turd Flinging Monkey are at the more extreme end of the movement — as the latter's internet nomenclature might suggest. Their online clarion calls have inflammatory, provocative titles such as Are Women Capable of Love? and Why Civilised Society Hates Men. Clearly the intention is to provoke a debate, but who is behind the aliases and how have they managed to garner such a huge following in a relatively short period? Sandman is a 36-year-old photographer based in Toronto, Canada, and has more than 40,000 YouTube subscribers. "MGTOW is already massive and has tens of millions if not hundreds of millions of men around the world," he claims. "They just don't know they are going their own way, and that the term or online community exists."

He explains that his own awakening happened after a nine-year relationship ended. "I decided to take a break and learn about why I kept picking the wrong women. Now I reject long-term relationships with westernised women. Young women in their twenties are sleeping with dozens of men before finding a man to settle down with. Many western women are looking for the bigger, better deal in a partner, even when they are in long-term relationships."

Sandman thinks the majority of men are doomed to become servants to females because women are incapable of love without constant material reminders such as flowers, rings and so on — and men have never been taught to say "no" to women. "Men going their own way realise they can say no to women, and yes to their own dreams and desires."

So what does that mean in practice?

"I would like to see artificial wombs and gestational surrogacy allow men to be fathers without the need for mothers. And I would like to see female androids replace the sexual functions of women. Once we have a level playing field, the sexes can sit down and renegotiate, if that's really what we want."

Although Sandman's views are a manifestation of the movement at its most militant, there is evidence that in Britain we are certainly having less sex, even if we are a long way away from Sandman's utopia. While the average British adult has sex four times a month, a third of them do not have sex at all in that period — an 8% increase since 2008. Until now, we've blamed work exhaustion, smartphones in bed, porn and even austerity. But is there another explanation? Could men opting out of sex — MGTOWs — be having an impact?

The evidence is mixed. Not all MGTOWs live like hermits. Some still have no-strings sex with women; others date and even marry. Others have vasectomies and have more sex than ever. According to Sandman, there are four levels of MGTOW. Level one sees women "for what they are", but still "take the risks". Level two believes in dating, but not marriage or cohabitation. Level three doesn't believe in dating women at all and limits their interactions with them. Level four tries to limit its interactions not only with women, but with the state: they believe in "going ghost" and trying to stay invisible to men and women.

The activist Dean Esmay says: "I think the true MGTOW philosophy is not eschewing women, but saying, 'I'm a self-defined man, I don't care what women think. I'm going to live my life the way I see fit, and if you don't like it, you can go stuff yourself.' "

He believes that some men "have always felt this way, but now they're forming networks. These guys can't be shut up. And they're growing in number. They think, 'The problem isn't my misogyny, the problem is women hate me. I'm a utility. I'm disposable.' Others want nothing to do with women, and they're happy if women are miserable. I think that's sad. Some say 'masturbation is so much cheaper'. It's a pretty hardcore rejection."

Esmay is convinced that this movement is here to stay. "I see this deep rift developing between men and women, and that's tragic — to distrust and fear half the human race. There is a militant strand that thinks the female is truly incapable of love: they are there to use men's resources. It's not hate, it's more contempt or even indifference. But we must not forget: these men don't want to kill anybody. They're lonely and afraid. They're not pathetic. They're often just hurting."

What is the cause of all this anger?

"A lot of these boys are from single-parent homes, with absent fathers. They never knew a male role model. When they went to school, they never saw male teachers — they were effectively raised in a matriarchy. As a result, they don't see women as anything other than punishing, authoritative, demanding and judging. All men need to rebel against authority — so, for these guys, who will that be? Women."

The MGTOW message is raw, visceral and, ultimately, heartbreaking. How did we get to the point where men want to retreat to caves and have sex with robots? Yet what amazed me most while researching this article was that every time I explained the MGTOW concept to a friend, they all knew one — they just didn't know they were called MGTOWs. One woman said: "I've got a male mate, a good-looking, well-paid accountant. He's athletic, a good catch, but he's given up on women. He reads about false-rape cases and he thinks sex isn't worth the hassle." Another added: "I know gay guys and women who do this, too. People are dropping out everywhere. Is there any wonder we're all single?"

Men are more confused and bewildered by the world and its women than ever before. Dismissing MGTOWs as losers and telling them to grow up will only exacerbate the growing divisions between the sexes. The truth is that these men feel abandoned, unwanted and even despised. Beneath the tough-talking armour, I believe they are in pain, and, being men, they don't always express that in the most constructive way. For that, they deserve not our rage, nor our pity, but our understanding and sympathy. The future of mankind may depend on it.
User avatar
Yohan
Veteran Poster
 
Posts: 2212
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 5:05 am
Location: Tokyo, JAPAN

Re: Are women really that bad as MGTOW like to point out?

Postby Yohan » Mon Nov 23, 2015 4:52 am

Blue Murder wrote:Where is MGTOW blowblack in the east? And no, herbivore men are not MGTOW in the least. Their thing is an entirely different dynamic.

If you refer to Japan, the situation here is totally different compared to Western countries.
Japan is not feminist-friendly in its laws, as man in Japan you need not to be worried when looking for a relationship with a woman.
There is nothing to worry about divorce in case something is going wrong. Nobody in Japan considers a man to be a 2nd class citizen as it is in Western pro-feminist countries.
User avatar
Yohan
Veteran Poster
 
Posts: 2212
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 5:05 am
Location: Tokyo, JAPAN

Re: Are women really that bad as MGTOW like to point out?

Postby The_ninja1986 » Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:45 pm

Adama wrote:
chanta76 wrote:Adama,

The posters that come to happierbroad probably had bad experience with western women that's why their views are bias...If I go to let say some other forum and sprout some of the views here..people would look at me as being weird. In reality there is good and bad everywhere..and some of the blame lies with bad luck or something....but in my daily life I meet American guys that appear to be happy with their american girl friends...so who is wrong here..us or what I see...I think it depends...


I've had bad experiences with American women especially and Western women in general. I think the problem is universal attributions, which is a symptom of depression. Most of these men are lost and can not be saved. They see, but their minds are blinded to the truth. You could scream the truth at them all day, everyday. They focus on the negativity of the Western woman. Therefore all their mind sees is the negativity of the western woman. If a western woman does something normal, nice or good, they will either ignore it because it flies under their radar (they are too busy focusing on the evil), or they interpret it as evil. They do not even know that are doing this. I know this is done because I've done all this.

Focusing on the negative isn't paying attention to the truth. It eliminates the possibility for anything positive to take place. So even though they've had lots of negative experiences, they've simply condemned themselves to only having negative experiences, because the mind will take a person where they set their focus.

Just like when you're running hard, you aren't supposed to turn around to look behind you. When you are driving your motorcycle, the instructor will tell you that your motorcycle will go in the direction where you are looking.

Focus determines reality. Focus on the bad things and you will only see the bad things. Focus on the good and eventually you will get the good things that you want. The bad will always be there nagging in the back of the mind, which is fine and normal, but focusing on the negativity only enlarges it. It is destructive rather than constructive. Focusing on the positive is constructive.

Unfortunately I think most of these types of men are so miserable that they will never climb out of the hole. And if you extend a hand to them, they will tell you they would rather stay in that hole than take the risk of something bad happening to them if they were pulled out of it. They are hopeless cases, and it is 100% their own fault.


Being a student of psychology I can kind of understand why men have this belief. Belief is a hard thing to control. If you were bit and attacked by every dog that you've ever interacted with it would be near impossible to believe that dogs won't attack you. Even though logically not all dogs are the same your body and mind are now used to dogs being violent. It's classical conditioning. Also negative things are so much more powerful than positive things. A man can do a million good deeds but one really bad deed can destroy them all.

I think American women in general are very flaky. I'm in the fence if that could be said about women from other cultures but the flakiness combined with our cultures tendency to encourage women not to take responsibility for their feelings. This really paints women as villains, if a group of people could do whatever they wanted and take no responsibility for the choices they made I think people would come to hate that group.

The problem is men are encouraged to just brush it off and roll with it and that is impossible. Emotional pain and rejection light up the same areas of the brain as physical pain and too much of it can have damaging effects on the brain. In my opinion MGTOW, pua, and happier abroad are all the brains way of dealing with emotional pain that our culture encourages us to ignore, however the brain is not designed to ignore pain.

Pua is saying women are biologically hard wired to be the way they are and by asking them to be any other way is immoral and impossible. They are realist and pessimists, I disagree with them because 1. Because they hold women to the same standards to be feminine as they do for men to be masculine. 2. Because attraction is still a vague process we don't understand, it's mostly based off of vague theories from evolutionary psychology.

MGTOW are rejecting the super ego, they are rejecting our societies standard that are set for men, getting a lot of women, having a lot of sex. I agree with this part because the superego can be responsible for horrible things. However I'm not as pessimistic as they are about women, simply because I'm a romantic.
User avatar
The_ninja1986
Freshman Poster
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:23 pm

Re: Are women really that bad as MGTOW like to point out?

Postby Adama » Thu Nov 26, 2015 5:55 pm

The_ninja1986 wrote:
Adama wrote:
chanta76 wrote:Adama,

The posters that come to happierbroad probably had bad experience with western women that's why their views are bias...If I go to let say some other forum and sprout some of the views here..people would look at me as being weird. In reality there is good and bad everywhere..and some of the blame lies with bad luck or something....but in my daily life I meet American guys that appear to be happy with their american girl friends...so who is wrong here..us or what I see...I think it depends...


I've had bad experiences with American women especially and Western women in general. I think the problem is universal attributions, which is a symptom of depression. Most of these men are lost and can not be saved. They see, but their minds are blinded to the truth. You could scream the truth at them all day, everyday. They focus on the negativity of the Western woman. Therefore all their mind sees is the negativity of the western woman. If a western woman does something normal, nice or good, they will either ignore it because it flies under their radar (they are too busy focusing on the evil), or they interpret it as evil. They do not even know that are doing this. I know this is done because I've done all this.

Focusing on the negative isn't paying attention to the truth. It eliminates the possibility for anything positive to take place. So even though they've had lots of negative experiences, they've simply condemned themselves to only having negative experiences, because the mind will take a person where they set their focus.

Just like when you're running hard, you aren't supposed to turn around to look behind you. When you are driving your motorcycle, the instructor will tell you that your motorcycle will go in the direction where you are looking.

Focus determines reality. Focus on the bad things and you will only see the bad things. Focus on the good and eventually you will get the good things that you want. The bad will always be there nagging in the back of the mind, which is fine and normal, but focusing on the negativity only enlarges it. It is destructive rather than constructive. Focusing on the positive is constructive.

Unfortunately I think most of these types of men are so miserable that they will never climb out of the hole. And if you extend a hand to them, they will tell you they would rather stay in that hole than take the risk of something bad happening to them if they were pulled out of it. They are hopeless cases, and it is 100% their own fault.


Being a student of psychology I can kind of understand why men have this belief. Belief is a hard thing to control. If you were bit and attacked by every dog that you've ever interacted with it would be near impossible to believe that dogs won't attack you. Even though logically not all dogs are the same your body and mind are now used to dogs being violent. It's classical conditioning. Also negative things are so much more powerful than positive things. A man can do a million good deeds but one really bad deed can destroy them all.

I think American women in general are very flaky. I'm in the fence if that could be said about women from other cultures but the flakiness combined with our cultures tendency to encourage women not to take responsibility for their feelings. This really paints women as villains, if a group of people could do whatever they wanted and take no responsibility for the choices they made I think people would come to hate that group.

The problem is men are encouraged to just brush it off and roll with it and that is impossible. Emotional pain and rejection light up the same areas of the brain as physical pain and too much of it can have damaging effects on the brain. In my opinion MGTOW, pua, and happier abroad are all the brains way of dealing with emotional pain that our culture encourages us to ignore, however the brain is not designed to ignore pain.

Pua is saying women are biologically hard wired to be the way they are and by asking them to be any other way is immoral and impossible. They are realist and pessimists, I disagree with them because 1. Because they hold women to the same standards to be feminine as they do for men to be masculine. 2. Because attraction is still a vague process we don't understand, it's mostly based off of vague theories from evolutionary psychology.

MGTOW are rejecting the super ego, they are rejecting our societies standard that are set for men, getting a lot of women, having a lot of sex. I agree with this part because the superego can be responsible for horrible things. However I'm not as pessimistic as they are about women, simply because I'm a romantic.


I agree with everything you've written, except for the part about MGTOW. Yes, I have been trying to explain to them for months that this is classical conditioning. That's exactly what happened, and your illustration is a good one. But like I said, their minds are lost. They are hopeless.

I don't consider giving up on marriage and family success. Going off to a foreign land to get a job to sleep with scores and hundreds of prostitutes is not the answer to Western women rejecting a man. It simply isnt. The key is to learn how to discern the good women from the bad. I freely admit that most women are terrible creatures, especially in the USA and Canada, but all of the Angloworld and somewhat true everywhere.

These guys think all they need to do is hop on a plane, go to Asia or wherever, and pick a woman at random. Well most men will not be picking women at random. A few will actually go looking for wives. Most will be distracted by cheap sex workers. And even if these guys were to find wives, because they have no discernment skills whatsoever, they will pick the low-hanging fruit and end up with a woman nearly as bad as an AW.

American women, however, can do anything they want. The thing they do not recognize is that there is a price to pay for hurting others. American women do like to play with men's affections. I've had American women toy with me. You'll never guess what happened to two of the AWs who hurt me the most?

One woman was so upset that I lost interest in her, that when she saw me flirting with another woman in front of her, she went around telling everyone that I was harassing her, trying to get into her pants. Most people believed her for about a week or so. Unfortunately for her, the accusations started up the rumor mill. It was revealed that she had been having sex with lots of other guys (a complete wh*re if there ever was one). Her best friend went around telling everyone that I was the only guy who ever rejected her. Yes, her best friend went around saying that. And guess what else happened to her? She later became pregnant and openly admits she has no clue who the father of her son is. She was that promiscuous. She ruined her own reputation by trying to ruin me.

Another woman who issued me a brutal rejection was trying to reel me in for weeks. When I asked her out, she said yes. Something terrible happened to me the next day, and she used that as her excuse to flake on me. That was devastating to my self esteem. Could you imagine? That hurt so badly. She was also going around telling women about the men she meets at clubs and bars (talking about dozens of men in just a few months). Apparently she was meeting a lot of men, but none she really wanted. She also told me that some guy was angry because she didnt feel the same way about him that he feels about her. So she was teasing and going with lots of men, playing with their affections, but she never had any consideration for what they were going through. She was just leading lots of men on.

Her best friend even took her on a family vacation and paid everything for her, but she didnt want to go. Instead of simply declining, she fakes like she lost her passport, and throughout the whole trip, she complains about how unhappy she is on a free vacation. Her best female friend even dumped her because of her spoiled rotten attitude.

She also accused her former best friend, whose family paid for her to go on vacation with them, of being a stalker. She also accused me of being a stalker when I sent two more texts than she responded to. And of course random men were also stalkers, like when she bragged about how she gets hit on by strangers in public, as if she was not looking for it. She even said one time that she doesnt know how to ignore men who are hitting on her. So she just goes along with it. (Seriously a stupid girl.)

Now she is claiming she is a sexual assault victim. Either she was raped or she wasnt raped. It could be that in her warped mind she thinks someone raped her (as in the 30 second rape myth). Or maybe she actually was raped. Either way, she was broken before, and now she is completely shattered. I am doubting she will be able to form a real relationship with any man.

Most times when a person tries to destroy you, they must first destroy themselves, which is something they never consider. You might be able to hurt someone, but in the process, you're going to hurt yourself, possibly worse than you injure that other person. All actions do come around and there is a payment for everything which is done to another person. Those American women will pay dearly for their actions. Their sisters will also pay. The few decent American women have to live with the reputation of being women like just like those other women. Men will lump them all in the same category, decreasing the chances for love for everyone, by scaring men off.
Look for women who automatically want to please you because it pleases them. Any woman who seeks to please her man is a treasure. Even better if you don't have to ask but rather suggest.
User avatar
Adama
Elite Upper Class Poster
 
Posts: 3949
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2009 9:37 pm

Re: Are women really that bad as MGTOW like to point out?

Postby Adama » Thu Nov 26, 2015 6:14 pm

I simply think men need to employ the one strike and you're out rule. Any mistreatment from a woman before the relationship is sealed and she must be ejected. If she can not meet the man half way, then forget about it. She needs to show she is willing to do her part, cause if it is all on the man, not only does he have to do more work, but he has to emotionally invest more than he should, while she invests nothing.

And if a woman wants a man badly enough, if they are able to converse with each other and are friendly, she will do the asking. The same women who rejected me, the vast majority of the time they came back to ask me to come back to them, or they asked me out on a date. Be friendly with them, if they are interested, they will ask. You could even prompt them to ask, if you know how to use words properly (and most men do not).
Look for women who automatically want to please you because it pleases them. Any woman who seeks to please her man is a treasure. Even better if you don't have to ask but rather suggest.
User avatar
Adama
Elite Upper Class Poster
 
Posts: 3949
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2009 9:37 pm

Re: Are women really that bad as MGTOW like to point out?

Postby Adama » Thu Nov 26, 2015 6:34 pm

Also, I can not emphasize enough, with the AW (but not with European women) a man must absolutely know what he is doing. He must know how to proceed from A to B to C to D, all the way down to Z, because American women are not likely to step up to help or to seal the relationship. So if a man doesnt know how to get a kiss, then he will not get a kiss. The woman is waiting on the man to do that, usually. She will not kiss the man first in most situations.

European women on the other hand (except for that Anglo island) are much more aggressive than the AW. I've had German women in particular ask me out on dates, ask for my phone number, speak to me first to break the stranger barrier, etc. Those things will not happen most of the other parts world from what I've seen though. A european woman can lead from the bottom. An American women can not lead without dominating. In other words, European women give more to their men as far as social interaction. Maybe that is cause there were no Ted Bundys roaming the countryside, because they sure do have feminism. Note how feminists the Scandinavians are, but men can still connect with them. And they are not loud mouthed and bossy.
Look for women who automatically want to please you because it pleases them. Any woman who seeks to please her man is a treasure. Even better if you don't have to ask but rather suggest.
User avatar
Adama
Elite Upper Class Poster
 
Posts: 3949
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2009 9:37 pm

Re: Are women really that bad as MGTOW like to point out?

Postby cdnFA » Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:50 pm

One of the girls I met on POF I really connected with. I mean seriously hard score connected. We agreed on pretty much everything, were open and honest. A girl I shared the messages with was pretty much planning our wedding after 2 days.
I told her flat out that I was bound to do something wrong but if she was open to communication it would be a good thing.
I screw up on something minor. She cancels out first date, deletes her POF and even her Facebook account. Silly bint didn't realise I had her email and phone number. But whatevs.
Funny thing. Her last boyfriend mooched of her, cheated on her and beat her up for several years to the point where she took a few years off dating and even went on disability.

I guess that guy was worth chance after chance but not me.

This also plays into the guy must not make any error what so ever. Funny thing, one of the two excuses I heard about? She complained that a guy used the same excuse to drop her and how lame it was.

Not sure how much of this is bitches be crazy and how much of this is some goon Dbag ruined another girl for the rest of us.
cdnFA
Junior Poster
 
Posts: 582
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:51 am

Re: Are women really that bad as MGTOW like to point out?

Postby droid » Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:58 pm

cdnFA wrote:I mean seriously hard score connected. We agreed on pretty much everything, were open and honest. A girl I shared the messages with was pretty much planning our wedding after 2 days.
Her last boyfriend mooched of her, cheated on her and beat her up for several years


Was the beating before your thing with her? did she tell you about it
There's little information, but sounds like you dodged a Borderline. Feel fortunate.
Last edited by droid on Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1)Too much of one thing defeats the purpose.
2)Everybody is full of it. What's your hypocrisy?
User avatar
droid
Veteran Poster
 
Posts: 2437
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:38 am

Re: Are women really that bad as MGTOW like to point out?

Postby MarcosZeitola » Thu Nov 26, 2015 8:08 pm

MGTOW guys don't strike me as any better then the women they rant about and claim to avoid like the plague. It is painfully obvious from looking at the younger, never-married MGTOWs that many of them desperately want a woman, but are in no position of getting one due to their own inadequacies So they bitch and moan, sour grapes, the same old bullshit story over and over again.

Image
User avatar
MarcosZeitola
Experienced Poster
 
Posts: 1977
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 7:13 pm
Location: Phillipines

Re: Are women really that bad as MGTOW like to point out?

Postby S_Parc » Thu Nov 26, 2015 8:39 pm

MarcosZeitola wrote:MGTOW guys don't strike me as any better then the women they rant about and claim to avoid like the plague. It is painfully obvious from looking at the younger, never-married MGTOWs that many of them desperately want a woman, but are in no position of getting one due to their own inadequacies So they bitch and moan, sour grapes, the same old bullshit story over and over again.


That's the Cornfed mentality, a guy who's so *in the know*, that he freaks out/goes ballistic, because I'm marrying a white American woman. Yeah, he's really so detached from his desires that his extreme jealously for any man with a white woman comes to full center stage.

I'll bet you that if Mel and I were Latin/Hispanic, the story wouldn't even register for him.

With Cornfed's p.o.v stated, I'm still pro-MGTOW because for the most part, when a guy is out of that pre-35 age bracket, the actual need for a woman goes down. And then, he can be satisfied with wh@res periodically, while focusing on his other interests. My 50 year old friend is a perfect example of that. If I didn't have Mel, I could in fact join him.
16 years ago, the Best Picture of 1999, "American Beauty", telegraphed the message of Happier Abroad to the world.

Beware of long term engagements with AWs, you may find yourself in a coffin.

AB discussion thread

BTW, despite settling down with an AW, myself, the warning is still in effect.
S_Parc
Veteran Poster
 
Posts: 2414
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2010 7:01 pm

Re: Are women really that bad as MGTOW like to point out?

Postby cdnFA » Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:19 pm

droid wrote:
cdnFA wrote:I mean seriously hard score connected. We agreed on pretty much everything, were open and honest. A girl I shared the messages with was pretty much planning our wedding after 2 days.
Her last boyfriend mooched of her, cheated on her and beat her up for several years


Was the beating before your thing with her? did she tell you about it
There's little information, but sounds like you dodged a Borderline. Feel fortunate.


Yeah it came out early. Pity though, I tend not to connect with most people. A nerd girl who is single and sees the world pretty much exactly like I do. One comes around every 45 years based on my experience and when I'm 90... ewww. old people.

Oh, to clairfy something. The person planning our wedding [I say in jest, but she was calling her the one] isn't the POF chick but someone I know and who wouldn't date me for all the tea in China and India and much of SEA. She just saw how well we were bonding and how suited we were.
cdnFA
Junior Poster
 
Posts: 582
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:51 am

Re: Are women really that bad as MGTOW like to point out?

Postby Cornfed » Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:26 pm

S_Parc wrote:That's the Cornfed mentality, a guy who's so *in the know*, that he freaks out/goes ballistic, because I'm marrying a white American woman. Yeah, he's really so detached from his desires that his extreme jealously for any man with a white woman comes to full center stage.

LOL, I can honestly say that I have never had a burning desire to marry a middle aged lesbian supplemented with a sex mannequin
Cornfed
Elite Upper Class Poster
 
Posts: 4633
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 4:22 am

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Kradmelder and 5 guests