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What's the logic behind gambling and casinos?

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What's the logic behind gambling and casinos?

Postby Winston » Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:48 pm

I don't understand something. What is the logic and rationality behind the activity of gambling and casinos? Why does such an industry exist and why is it so big, such as in Las Vegas and Macau? There is no logic to it at all. It should not exist. The obvious reasons are:

1. Gambling in casinos is NOT a level playing field, but a very unfair one. The odds are calculated to make you lose and make the house profitable. Why would any rational person play such a game where the odds are heavily stacked against him or her, so that he or she will most likely lose money in the end? I don't know about you, but I wouldn't play a game unless there was a level playing field, and the game was fair.

2. Most likely, gambling in casinos results in you losing your money, from a little to a lot. Why would you want to lose your resources and waste them like that? It's not logical. Only a small percentage of people win in casinos and even among them, most of them return to play again and end up losing their winnings. Only a rare few are able to somehow make a living from gambling, purportedly.

So what pleasure is there in playing an unfair game where you will most likely end up losing money? How is losing money a thrilling exciting experience? I don't get it. What do you gain? What's the logic in that? It doesn't make any sense.

I've never found casinos, slot machines, roulette wheels, card tables, or even lotteries, to be worth playing, for the above reasons. You aren't in control of the game really, so why play? Why willingly submit to a scam? Why would anyone knowingly engage in activity that's essentially a bad deal? Where's the fun and pleasure in that? I don't get it. Gambling is clearly not a thing that logical rational people do. Casinos should not exist. If everyone were logical, they wouldn't exist.

Anyone have any explanations that are logical and rational?
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Re: What's the logic behind gambling and casinos?

Postby Farmer308 » Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:03 am

Gambling in casinos is just a tax on the stupid.
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Re: What's the logic behind gambling and casinos?

Postby Moretorque » Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:09 am

When your born you enter the casino anyway, the British empires that it. You need chips " Money " to play the game but in order to get chips you must pledge your soul to the national debt through the birth certificate.

The casinos you speak of are child's play compared to the casino we live in and you have no choice but to play if you want chips to live. Those people who go for that stuff are foolish, they are just being played again and again by our masters.
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Re: What's the logic behind gambling and casinos?

Postby Winston » Fri Nov 13, 2015 4:52 pm

Farmer308,
How can gambling be a tax on the stupid? The government does not run casinos nor does it collect profits from them. The casino owners do. So what's the logic behind it? Why do many people gamble? Do they get pleasure out of losing money?

Moretorque,
Wasn't the British Empire gone in the early 1900's? If not then why did Winston Churchill lament its passing? Anyhow, that doesn't address my question in this thread.

Also, don't you all hate those people who regularly buy a lotto ticket, as though it were a daily or weekly routine? Wtf? Why would someone have an itch to play the lottery on a regular basis? Stupid huh? Yet quite a few people I know do that. What a waste of a dollar. It would have been better spent on a cup of coffee at McDonald's.

Btw, what would happen if I printed out my post in this thread about the illogical nature of gambling and handed out copies on the streets of Las Vegas? lol. How would people respond to such sheer logic on paper against gambling in a city where gambling is the main culture? lol
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Re: What's the logic behind gambling and casinos?

Postby Rock » Fri Nov 13, 2015 7:22 pm

Winston wrote:I don't understand something. What is the logic and rationality behind the activity of gambling and casinos? Why does such an industry exist and why is it so big, such as in Las Vegas and Macau? There is no logic to it at all. It should not exist. The obvious reasons are:

1. Gambling in casinos is NOT a level playing field, but a very unfair one. The odds are calculated to make you lose and make the house profitable. Why would any rational person play such a game where the odds are heavily stacked against him or her, so that he or she will most likely lose money in the end? I don't know about you, but I wouldn't play a game unless there was a level playing field, and the game was fair.

2. Most likely, gambling in casinos results in you losing your money, from a little to a lot. Why would you want to lose your resources and waste them like that? It's not logical. Only a small percentage of people win in casinos and even among them, most of them return to play again and end up losing their winnings. Only a rare few are able to somehow make a living from gambling, purportedly.

So what pleasure is there in playing an unfair game where you will most likely end up losing money? How is losing money a thrilling exciting experience? I don't get it. What do you gain? What's the logic in that? It doesn't make any sense.

I've never found casinos, slot machines, roulette wheels, card tables, or even lotteries, to be worth playing, for the above reasons. You aren't in control of the game really, so why play? Why willingly submit to a scam? Why would anyone knowingly engage in activity that's essentially a bad deal? Where's the fun and pleasure in that? I don't get it. Gambling is clearly not a thing that logical rational people do. Casinos should not exist. If everyone were logical, they wouldn't exist.

Anyone have any explanations that are logical and rational?


1. Addictions and compulsions are not rational/logical. Have you ever examined reward theory? Some people when they win, get a rush, an emotional high. And the whole process is like an enticing emotional roller coaster, kinda like some people are addicted to approaching girls. Even though the odds on slot machines, roulette, etc. are slightly stacked against you, you still have a decent chance of winning sometimes. For example, if you play black/red or odd/even on American roulette, you have about a 47% chance of winning (doubling your bet) on each wager. There's a lot of emotional excitement involved in such games, fear, excitement, etc. That in itself is a draw to many just the way many love to engage in the ups and downs of drama in a relationship.

2. It is possible to win in the long run in cards if you are an expert counter and/or if you team up with others. The run of the mill pros can make a decent living playing cards hours per day but they don't kill it. So the casinos usually leave them alone. It's actually pretty hard work. But some of the whizzes who work in teams can do well till they get discovered and banned. That was what happened to the whizz kid card players from "21" who worked in teams and hit Vegas. By the way, your friend Hy according to his own accounts ends up ahead in the Angeles City casinos. I watched him at work there once or twice. He seems to be pretty lucky lol.

3. Casinos are taxed. Vegas and Nevada casinos produce mountains of tax revenue, something like one third of all Nevada state taxes collected. Moreover, casinos are required to with-hold federal taxes at the individual level for winnings over a certain amount. So if you win big in a casino, your winnings will be taxed by the IRS.
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Re: What's the logic behind gambling and casinos?

Postby Winston » Fri Nov 13, 2015 7:30 pm

Here is ethan_sg's explanation for why people gamble:

Ethan_sg:

"They all think they can be that special one to beat the odds. Deep inside us, we all think we are special lol. Lotteries prey on that. Also, mathematically, even though your odds of winning say 1 million dollars in the lottery by betting 1 dollar are typically less than 1 in a million because the lottery organizer takes a large cut of the total money pool no matter who wins, in economics there is also the concept of the time value of money that helps even things out. 1 million dollars in 1 payout is theoretically worth more than the lottery player giving 1 dollar a million different times an attempt to win the lottery because his attempts will tend to be spread across many years whereas winnings tend to be a one time payment.

So yea going to the casino is irrational and based on the egocentric belief that we can all be that special one.

But for the lottery, the maths may be slightly different if you consider the concept of the time value of money in economics.

Of course that's all primarily theoretical or academic, in effect the chances of winning are less than being struck by lightning. But at least in a lottery you tend not to lose much. In the casino people can get addicted and lose a lot."

My comment:

Thats assuming the lottery is genuine. Some reports say that the lottery is fixed or staged with actors as the winners.
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Re: What's the logic behind gambling and casinos?

Postby Ghost » Sat Nov 14, 2015 3:57 am

For some it's the fantasy that will make people throw away a nice little chunk of change. They don't really believe they'll win big, but the pleasant fantasy is enough to make them throw a few dollars away.

The other side of it is that casinos are good at bringing out compulsion, and this is ultimately what they are trying to get at. Access that compulsion and you can have a "customer" hooked for life. Compulsive behavior isn't logical, which is why people will ruin their lives over compulsions. The logic behind casinos is to access that most illogical part of the human mind.
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Re: What's the logic behind gambling and casinos?

Postby MustVisitAsia123 » Sat Nov 14, 2015 8:28 am

The players are generally the poor or middle class consumed by the greed. The other 10% of players are spoiled rich kids wasting their money gambling.
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Re: What's the logic behind gambling and casinos?

Postby Moretorque » Sun Nov 15, 2015 4:35 am

Winston wrote:
Moretorque,
Wasn't the British Empire gone in the early 1900's? If not then why did Winston Churchill lament its passing? Anyhow, that doesn't address my question in this thread.


Winston when you break the system down you are going to find our rulers who set this up originating from the City of London own controlling stocks in everything including most all of the casinos. It is just another way for them to shift all wealth to the top.

Churchill was just a politician like Obama.
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Re: What's the logic behind gambling and casinos?

Postby PeterAndrewNolan » Sun Nov 15, 2015 6:49 am

Winston wrote:Anyone have any explanations that are logical and rational?


Yes.

People are stupid.

Are you aware that unpredictable rewards are the strongest form of human behaviour modification? I studied this is psych at uni.

Gambling gives an unpredictable reward....and hence....it highly motivates people......dumb people.

In horse racing and things there is an element of judgment....but most horse racing is fixed anyway.

When I was a lad my dad was a director of our football club. The club has a social club as well where people associated with the club would eat, drink, have social events etc. It was a really nice club.

http://www.rulesclubwagga.com/

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Rules+Club+Wagga+Wagga/@-35.1339112,147.3400951,16z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x0000000000000000:0xa0dccf1aed03e8ab

Anyway....we have poker machines in Australia. And each Sunday morning I would go down to the club with my Dad to help clear out all the coins from the poker machines on the saturday night.

I was about 12 or 13 I guess. After a month or so I asked my Dad how come the poker machines were always full of money on Sunday morning.

He replied because lots of people play them during the week. I was confused.

Of course, I was wondering, if the poker machines are full every Sunday and I am emptying them out, then the club must take in more money than they give out with the poker machine. My dad was "yes, thats right".

So I asked..."Well, why do people play poker machines if they know that the poker machine wins in the end?"

He said "Well, not everyone loses. Some people win. And it is plain dumb luck. The poker machines have machines in them to pass out money on what seems to be a random basis but it is not random at all....it is just complicated. That is why we have smart guys maintaining the poker machines. The gears have to be kept well serviced so the poker machine runs smoothly. But because the pay outs appear random people believe it is luck."

"But isn't that just a little bit like stealing?"

"No. Because people enjoy playing the poker machines too. They are entertainment. Your grandmother plays poker machines and mum plays poker machines. Sure, over the longer term they will lose. But only a little bit. And when they have a win they are happy for days. It's pretty cheap entertainment really."

So that was my lesson about poker machines when I was 12 or 13. They do take in more money than they give out....but some people win.....and that keeps the rest going.

Consider family law courts. The judges give SOME MEN custody of children....less than 10%.....and the other 90% "go in fighting for their kids" and how much money do they spend?

BILLIONS.

Men tell me "you are a loser because you did not go in to the family law courts and fight for your kids, you might have won."

These are the same men who play poker machines.....right?
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Re: What's the logic behind gambling and casinos?

Postby Winston » Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:08 am

Some more questions:

How do both parties benefit from gambling? In normal transactions, both sides mutually benefit, one from receiving compensation for a product or service, and the other vice versa. But in gambling, how do both sides mutually benefit? It doesn't seem to follow the usual logic of mutual gain from a transaction.

Why do many men play poker with their buddies? They show this in TV/movies all the time. In poker, the winning hand wins the whole pot and everyone else loses. So the losers outnumber the winner of one. Isn't such a game more bad than good? Doesn't it cause more harm than good, since more people lose than win? Especially among a group of friends?

Btw, don't you guys love it when you enter a casino and hear all those electronic sounds and the sound of coins hitting the metal holder below the slot machines? lol Doesn't that stimulate your senses and tempt you? lol j/k.
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Re: What's the logic behind gambling and casinos?

Postby tom » Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:11 pm

Winston wrote:Some more questions:

How do both parties benefit from gambling? In normal transactions, both sides mutually benefit, one from receiving compensation for a product or service, and the other vice versa. But in gambling, how do both sides mutually benefit? It doesn't seem to follow the usual logic of mutual gain from a transaction.

Why do many men play poker with their buddies? They show this in TV/movies all the time. In poker, the winning hand wins the whole pot and everyone else loses. So the losers outnumber the winner of one. Isn't such a game more bad than good? Doesn't it cause more harm than good, since more people lose than win? Especially among a group of friends?

Btw, don't you guys love it when you enter a casino and hear all those electronic sounds and the sound of coins hitting the metal holder below the slot machines? lol Doesn't that stimulate your senses and tempt you? lol j/k.


This is a good question, I do somewhat have an answer. I have noticed Filipinos are particularly vulnerable to gambling. Have you experience this?

Lets start with the obvious. Its actually not gambling because it has a absolute certain outcome. That is in casinos. I think of it as an exploit or a hack of human nature and I know what some of the tricks are. I know how to counter its destructive effects.

Some years ago I was playing rummy with some friends, initially I did not know how to play so I always lost, but after a while I founds some flaws in how they were playing. So I started winning, all the time. The problem was they became very distraught about this after a while as they always lost, so I told them how I was playing and winning but still they could not grasp it. Finally I said ok I will play showing my cards. Finally they began to understand and the game was not so one sided.

Your turn.


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZN6mp2NjMhs[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6r3ARcE1LkY[/youtube]
Last edited by tom on Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: What's the logic behind gambling and casinos?

Postby onethousandknives » Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:40 am

Winston wrote:Here is ethan_sg's explanation for why people gamble:

Ethan_sg:

"They all think they can be that special one to beat the odds. Deep inside us, we all think we are special lol. Lotteries prey on that. Also, mathematically, even though your odds of winning say 1 million dollars in the lottery by betting 1 dollar are typically less than 1 in a million because the lottery organizer takes a large cut of the total money pool no matter who wins, in economics there is also the concept of the time value of money that helps even things out. 1 million dollars in 1 payout is theoretically worth more than the lottery player giving 1 dollar a million different times an attempt to win the lottery because his attempts will tend to be spread across many years whereas winnings tend to be a one time payment.

So yea going to the casino is irrational and based on the egocentric belief that we can all be that special one.

But for the lottery, the maths may be slightly different if you consider the concept of the time value of money in economics.

Of course that's all primarily theoretical or academic, in effect the chances of winning are less than being struck by lightning. But at least in a lottery you tend not to lose much. In the casino people can get addicted and lose a lot."

My comment:

Thats assuming the lottery is genuine. Some reports say that the lottery is fixed or staged with actors as the winners.


That's funny you think the lottery is OK. I've seen people who'd spend up to a hundred or more dollars per day on lotto tickets, almost everyday. That's 36K per year. So, it's as "harmless" as you make it. I've never even gone to a casino, but obviously some guy who goes to a casino with a hundred bucks once every month or two is less of a problem gambler than a hundred dollar a day lotto ticket guy. And to this extent, what about even the "mild" lotto ticket users who spend $5 per day, daily, that's a lot of money added up over time.

Anyway, I'm mostly OK with gambling. I'm pretty conservative of a gambler myself, though.
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Re: What's the logic behind gambling and casinos?

Postby tom » Mon Nov 23, 2015 7:26 pm

The word Gambling is really a Weasel Word. The odds of winning the California Super Lotto Jackpot are 1 in 18 million. Your odds of getting hit by lightning and surviving or getting killed by terrorist are in fact vastly higher. If a car gets 25 miles per gallon, and a gallon of gas is bought for every Lotto ticket bought, there will be enough gas for about 750 round trips to the moon before the jackpot is won.

The real problem is people think of the lotto/gambling as an investment and put money they labored for into it. Actually they would get more useful utility out of there money if would just light it with a match and burn it. At least they would get some heat out of there money which is a better use.

Countless lives and families are heavily damaged by gambling.
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Re: What's the logic behind gambling and casinos?

Postby tom » Mon Nov 23, 2015 9:16 pm

In ancient times some physicians recognizes the symptoms of addiction in things like opium but did not understand it as we do today. Today we don't relabel and disguise drugs like opium. Its chemical addiction syndrome is widely acknowledged.
Its far more ambiguous with gambling.
Still hard core methods are currently hidden.

You cant miss this one once you understand it.
Casino games from about the 90's on all use two channel binaural beats in the sound track and effects.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDX8QrcDI_o

You can read how it works here, its a type of brainwave manipulation/hypnosis.
http://www.web-us.com/thescience.htm

Next trick:
Using parts of what is known as Havening
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Havening++therapy
More on this later
:)
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