Finding a Loving Husband Abroad?

[Winston]

Hi Prettychoices,
Welcome. So how did you find this site and forum? And why are you seeking a foreign husband? From which country? What led you to this endeavor?

Are you american? White or other race? I was wondering something. What do you think of the anti-male attitude of american TV nowadays? Like they always tell men to respect women but they never tell women to respect men. Isnt that offensive? What do you think of that? Why doesnt that double standard offend more people as it should?

Btw how come you have traditional values? Are you a Mormon or Christian? Did you grow up in a small town with traditional values?

Are you looking to live abroad? If so how about Europe? The men there have rich souls and are more gentlemenly and broad minded. They are easier to connect with i think. And most european countries are very safe if you are concerned about that.

[Winston]

Ghost,
I read your first reply to prettychoices. Come on now. No need to call a new poster names or insult them or attack them when theyve done nothing wrong. All she did was ask questions. Try to treat all new members with civility please, whether they are male or female. Thanks. And that goes for all the rest of you guys too.

[wanderlust]

(eta: I should mention that my comment above is not to say that the problems with feminism are not real. There is no way this many people are so upset about it if it were imaginary. I am more saying that I don't feel like I'm a part of this conversation and wonder what women and men like me ought to do. How do traditional men find traditional women in America? Or family focused people with no interest in the politics but rather, a high quality of life?)


What I disagree with is the contempt, and the action taken against the opposite sex. Your post is very well written and I understand where you are coming from. But I guess if you were a woman and you discovered this world, how would you feel and how would you avoid being punished for these beliefs? I spent my afternoon reading Return of Kings which was linked by a poster here. What can I say to the many, many comments? I can't stop myself from growing older. If my husband and I had children, I would be a single mom and the glee in which they are talked about is terrifying. I understand the anger but wonder, alright, what do I do from here? I can't submit myself to acidic attitudes and don't think its necessary that I do. I have to withdraw myself and seek an appropriate partner and really try not to internalize all of the comments that suggest I'm worthless by virtue of my gender.

I think the men who choose to find love abroad for similar reasons I stated here, just wanting that peace in their households and love in their lives are absolutely right to do so. I want to do the same because I have a future family to think about and this just won't do.

oh yes, one more thing
Also while I think you stated many valuable points, I think this community is the minority. I think in reality, most guys are not going to take the efforts required to go abroad so the men you mentioned who settle, I think they are the majority. All this means is this problem remains stagnant, the acidic attitudes both genders inflict on each other only worse, and its just intolerable. We won't have the problem Japan is having where the men are largely opting out and birthrates dropping. Less marriage, more babies out of wedlock, and general unpleasantness is where we are.
There is a lot that I love about the US and I will always do my part to help make it better but I will not be shouldering the gender wars or bringing them into my household. I don't know if opting out will be harmful to me in any way but I do know when I walked away from my last date that trying to keep it here is not working either.

I understand that women probably don't stick around. I don't know if I will. I read and try to learn and will remain respectful of this community but as with anything, no one -and as a man who feels contempt for feminists you know this is true- enjoys hearing over and over how much they suck. I am trying my hardest to be very smart about how I handle the next few years and have to balance how I spend my energies doing so.

Many of us here are in the same boat as you described yourself in, trying to balance how their energies are directed. One phenomenon you are probably aware of at this point is that the mating/courtship process consumes tremendous amounts of energy from a male (well, maybe 1 in 200 men will have a different experience). In the past, higher relative wages and the prospect of greater advancement possibilities at work meant that a man, financially, had something material to offer to a woman, and that acquiring a man meant a step up in the world for a woman. Today (you may have also read this) within the 22-30 age group, women's earnings in the US now surpass men's, and college enrollments nationwide are now about 55% female. You may also know that between ages 20 and 34 there are statistically 1.2 men per woman in the US.

All the women I've ever known hope to marry/mate up. Lower educational attainment and lower relative wages mean that smaller and smaller numbers of men with each passing year will be considered suitable candidates domestically. Also, there's been a tremendous sea change in the dating marketplace in the past decade. My experience is that mating has become a secondary pursuit for the average American woman, and the primary objectives now are diversion, attention, and the occasional hookup, should an extremely well-qualified man succeed in catching her attention (criteria for this will obviously vary). The nature of initiating contact has changed too - today the norm is to do that electronically, via various social media platforms or online dating apps. In a setting like that it's difficult to impossible for any inner qualities to shine through. Rather, a man becomes nothing more than his height, age, physique, occupation, and visible circle of electronic friends.

Let me comment on one of your questions:

How do traditional men find traditional women in America?

Most of us have expended considerable amounts of time and effort exhausting all possible options domestically, becoming thoroughly acquainted with conditions and expectations in the west. The truth is there just aren't many traditional women in the west, and the demand FAR exceeds supply. Many of us on this site would agree that domestically, women of ethnic backgrounds have more traditional views and tend to be more sincere than their Caucasian counterparts. Some men from a religious background have found success seeking a partner in their faith. Many on this board, being freethinkers, have difficulty with religion and/or religious organizations. Increasingly, traditional-minded men are being forced to simply withdraw from the marriage marketplace.

Getting in shape won't bring success domestically. Gaining greater self-confidence, buying the right clothes, a different haircut, being funnier, etc., any combination of these will at most score more frequent hookups. Many of us didn't want to recognize conditions domestically for what they are and kept trying to find something to fix, until we ran out of possibilities. Many of us know other men richer and more attractive who are just treading water.

Speaking for myself and not the rest of the forum, I still do search for the right kind of woman domestically, although the search has acquired a passive nature. I look for someone with a wholesome personality and a natural look, then try to interact with her a bit. The rest tends shine through, perhaps much faster than she realizes - her views about family, her tastes in men, her expectations for the future, her temperament, family background, etc. It's exceptionally rare to cross paths with someone of similar views.

A final question for you:

So now imagine me, on any given day, being confronted angrily about feminism. What am I supposed to say about it? Why should I analzye it and make myself as miserable as the people it upsets? This fight is for the inherently privileged. I am hardly the only woman I know who feels this way, who enjoys taking care of the man in her life and doesn't have an adversarial relationship with men. We are completely drowned out in the conversation. Completely. We also have to deal with the fallout like everyone else.

Does this really happen (i.e. being angrily confronted about feminism)? Or are you speaking rhetorically?

I assume you are speaking rhetorically, or referring to interactions online and not face to face. Generally in real life, it would be sufficient to reply that you are not in the third-wave feminist camp, although the frustration at having to do so isn't difficult to understand.

You highlighted something important when you said this fight is for the privileged. Modern feminism, the type espoused on HuffPo, Gawker, Vox, Salon, Jezebel, etc., is largely a struggle for top-tier corporate power. Jobs and the accompanying salaries that will never enter the picture for more than 99% of us. The writers for those sites tend to have attended Ivy League universities, harbor some rather radical social and sexual views and I believe they would be considered out of touch by the masses.

I can't submit myself to acidic attitudes and don't think its necessary that I do. I have to withdraw myself and seek an appropriate partner and really try not to internalize all of the comments that suggest I'm worthless by virtue of my gender.

Public life is becoming awfully nasty. Sometimes going into hiding is a great source of relief, and at times, the only source.

[Winston]

Prettychoices,
I knew you werent a white woman. You sound too down to earth to be a white woman. For some reason, white women are the least down to earth of all races. They are too shallow and superficial and cold to be down to earth and honest like you are. Furthermore your posts are too long to be that of a white woman. A white woman doesnt usually have the patience to write long posts and long thoughts like that. Thats my experience.

Have you seen those dating sites for traditional people? Ive seen them before. Maybe they are for those with Christian values. We ought to start a dating site for people with traditional values.

[Cornfed]

I think it's Black Knight guys.

You think so? It seems more like Winston trolling his own forum again to me.

[Ghost]

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[fschmidt]

This is an interesting thread and PrettyChoices is obviously not a troll. As I have said before, I think it is harder for a woman to find a decent man than it is for a man to find a decent woman. There are countries out there where a reasonable percentage of women are decent, but I can't think of a single country that has a significant percentage of decent men.

If he [father] is filled with hate or irrational notions about life, they [kids] will be too.

I wish this were true, but it isn't. I am certainly filled with hatred for modern culture, but my kids are not. The only source of hatred is direct experience which they lack. I think it is essential for them to hate modern culture so that modern culture can't screw them over. I hope they develop this hatred before they are harmed too much.

Well no, Ghost said that I was a slut and I said that even if I had lots of sex (and I meant with lots of people) I don't see why any one adult would care about what another adult was doing.

Because that is the way men's brains are wired. Would you like a guy who has a long history of beating up women? Same idea.

How should a woman find a decent man? I don't know, but I would start by looking for some decent religion. If you find a decent religion with decent people, you can also look abroad in a country where that religion is common.

[MrMan]

So many things in just this single paragraph of yours!

You have no problem slutting it up - check

She's a widow. If she' had lots of sex with her husband, that could be an indication that she was being a good wife, rather than slut. Don't men want that in a wife?

I'm not that surprised you aren't married. You have to take this manosphere junk with a grain of salt. There is a lot of anger toward women on the manosphere, and I think you've absorbed it. What women wants to be with a man who is angry at women? She posted a rather innocuous post and you attacked her like this.

You don't trust the 'values perpetuated here' shaming language 1 - check

Shaming language? You've sure got a hair trigger when it comes to accusing people of 'shaming.' I'm a man, and I find a lot of the values on here to be pretty lousy, like your ideas that a woman must be a virgin, but that it's okay for a man to sleep with whores.

I wonder how many of the other guys who strike out and can't get dates and end up on HA can't get far in their relationships because women pick up on the anger.

You don't want to marry someone angry - shaming language 2 - check

You are offering evidence for her point.

There aren't any rules here against women participating. She started her own thread, too.

[MrMan]

hi @MrMan (heyyy I like your username)
Thank you for the great reply. I hear what you're saying

I don't doubt there are great American guys, I think I am just not going to focus on them so much because what I'm seeing so far is very discouraging. Our values are just different. This is too adversarial an atmosphere for love and I don't think its fair for people like me who don't care to participate in it.

I guess I did not give much thought to ethnicity because it is just another one of those things that I have to use cognitive dissonance to deal with in the dating world. I am not a white woman and I don't know first hand what makes a ww good or bad for dating. I am considered conventionally attractive and so I work with what I have. My problem is not that I don't attract people its that I have had real love in my life, a true partnership, and I know what it feels like and what needs to be there between myself and someone else for it to be there. I am looking for more of this. It will never be like it was with my husband but thats ok, it will be its own thing. I want to spend the rest of my life with someone who will be family. Arguments about who pay for coffee and scoring sex completely escape me because it is not important to me. I understand this must be a huge frustration for some people. I accept that I am not their target demo

I have always had to depend on who I am speaking for me because I'm not part of the narrative. If I depended on what the internet suggested about people like me I would have offed myself a long time ago. Since I know I can't trust the internet completely because it is wrong about women like me, I don't know how to prepare myself for men abroad. Don't know what country to look at. I always assumed this was about the individual. Not being white changes the dynamic of so many of these conversations. I got out with people from these cultures you mention and the dates are generally better than the ones with American men. But what does that even mean? Would their general culture hate me and they personally like me? What can I handle? I know how to meet people and talk to people but how do people find their spouses? I found mine by sheer unadulterated luck. Lightning does not strike twice so here I am

by the way, your comment about living in Asia sounds exciting. You just decided to move there one day? How long did you stay and was it worth it?

I spent about 10 years in Asia, nearly 9 or so years in Indonesia. It was definitely worth it. I met my wife in Indonesia. When I graduated college, I wanted to see the world so I taught English in Korea and then in Indonesia.

There are different ways to think of looking for a spouse. Even if you have a country you want your spouse to be from, you'd still have to meet someone you really click with. I certainly believe that God directed me to my wife. Meeting each other was an answer to prayer for both of us. I am certainly glad I didn't just date and marry the first pretty Indonesian girl who showed some interest.

I suppose you can look at dating as just coming across that right person, or a suitable person, the needle in the haystack you meet at random. Another approach is to be more methodical and strategic. Some men on here go on websites and target women with certain criteria. I've read posts about this. I met my wife when the tech boom hadn't reached its peak in the US and online dating wasn't that common. I never did online dating.

As far as ethnicity is concerned, in a lot of countries the people don't share some of the values and mores you hear about in the US. In Indonesia, people were conscious of their people-group and other people's people-groups. Jokes about other people-groups weren't considered as socially abhorrent as jokes about blacks, for example, would be in the US. I did see some Africans dating or married to locals, there, but they probably had a lot harder time finding partners than whites or locals. There is some racism over there, partly because of the Nigerian drug trade and various scams. An African friend of mine had difficulty finding taxis. Another is on death row for a drug-related crime he was framed for that he didn't commit.

My point is that race is an issue if you want to consider actually going abroad looking for a spouse. If you want to date internationals locally and find a spouse that way, it may not be as much of an issue. If you are Asian, you may consider whether you want to find a spouse from the homeland of your ancestors. A Korean woman looking for a Korean husband would have a whole different set of issues than a local Korean woman. She'd probably want to discuss that kind of issue on a more specialized forum.

[Ghost]

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[Renata]

Hi everyone

where can I find advice about being Happier Abroad as a woman?

I am a first generation American and I think that the reason why so many of the desires expressed in this board make sense to me is because my family and its culture is a big proponent in my life and I would like to find a man who relates to that. (admittedly, I have only glanced at a few things. Will look at more in a moment!)

I largely ignore arguments about feminism from both genders since I was raised in a traditional home and these were never issues; I avoid conversations that are too angry because I feel like my love life is not a political movement. I want everyone to have love and want the negativity to decrease.

I was not afforded many of the things trp men and the like are angry about with western women nor do I miss them.

all of that said, I am working to become my most attractive self and I want a full life of love, family, and happiness. I would love to meet a man abroad and skip the charades. I have no problem with sex and exploration with a partner I trust and frankly I don't trust the values perpetuated here. I don't want to marry someone angry, I want to marry a partner, a friend, someone I admire. I have NO idea where that starts as I am a widowed person who is trying again

Now-a-days technology has the world connected. Start your search online, doesn't hurt to chat or skype, it's the best way to meet people internationally.
I met my husband online in the most unlikely place. He hired me to complete a job that lasted a few months and then one day said, hey I'll be in your town on buisness let's meet for tea

[MrMan]

I'm a man, and I find a lot of the values on here to be pretty lousy, like your ideas that a woman must be a virgin, but that it's okay for a man to sleep with whores.

Only manginas and corrupted puritans say that p4p is wrong. It's essential to civilized society, as shown from thousands of years of Western civilization.[/quote]

For someone who complains about shaming language, you sure use it a lot. You reason like a MGTOW. Why not rely on logic and reason instead of name calling?

Noncorrupt Christians consider prostitution to be wrong. It's wrong to go around fathering children and leave them for the woman to raise alone. Leaving your kids to be raised alone by whores is a bad thing.

Btw, you used 'slut' as a verb instead of a noun, so you say she's blatantly lying for saying you called her a slut. Hmmm.

I wonder how many of the other guys who strike out and can't get dates and end up on HA can't get far in their relationships because women pick up on the anger.

So passive. Look, here's a hint. If you want to insult someone, be direct. Like this: "You strike out and can't get dates because you're...blah blah blah."

That's because I'm concerned with truth and facts. I could assume that since you are complaining about American women all the time and are so in favor of prostitution, that you can't get a date or get far in a relationship and you just go to prostitutes instead, and justify it in your philosophy, which comes out in this forum. But I don't know that. You could have a girlfriend or be married and either fantasize about going to prostitutes or go to prostitutes. I don't know our situation.

But if you can't get a date without having to directly pay her money for it, your attitude could have something to do with it.

There aren't any rules here against women participating. She started her own thread, too.

There aren't any rules against it, though there should be. Women have a way of inserting themselves into the interactions of men and disrupting them, influencing them, and trying to get the men to compete with each other in order to get her attention. Women must be kept out of the discussions of men.

[/quote]

You could start your own men only forum and not allow women to post. A woman started this thread, which is a rare thing on a forum like this.