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Whats wrong with outsourcing US jobs overseas?

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Whats wrong with outsourcing US jobs overseas?

Postby Winston » Sat Dec 26, 2015 11:10 pm

Whats wrong with outsourcing US jobs overseas? Why is that mentioned as a bad thing? Has anyone else in the mainstream media talked about it since Lou Dobbs of CNN?

Doesnt more unemployment make americans more humble? Doesnt it free them from corporate wage slavery? Doesnt it give humble overseas workers more employment?

If i was a corporation, i would outsource too. Why would i want to hire americans with an entitlement attitude and have to pay them high wages and benefits? And why would i want to deal with anal retentive, super restrictive US business laws?

I guess even corporations can be happier abroad too. Lol. But dont corporations run america though?
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Re: Whats wrong with outsourcing US jobs overseas?

Postby S_Parc » Sat Dec 26, 2015 11:35 pm

It's because they don't outsource managerial or C-level exec jobs as well.

If they did, then it would be fair.
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Re: Whats wrong with outsourcing US jobs overseas?

Postby Cornfed » Sat Dec 26, 2015 11:39 pm

Winston wrote:Whats wrong with outsourcing US jobs overseas? Why is that mentioned as a bad thing?

The obvious problem is that with no better jobs to go to the former workers become impoverished, cannot support families etc. Because there are so many unemployed people competing for jobs, those who still have jobs will be paid much less. Money from the production process will not be recycled locally, but instead drained from the economy for the benefit of foreign corporations, leading to a general economic slowdown. Since there will often be no opportunities, the qualities of being a good, stable person which would make one a good worker will cease to be valued, leading to, for example, the current phenomenon of females being attracted to losers. Although the imported foreign goods will be initially cheaper, once we as a culture lose to ability to produce anything, the foreigners will be free to gouge us and lord over us, since we will no longer have the option of producing stuff for ourselves. Finally, there are certain things that only white men can do to a larger extent, such as high end scientific research and creative programming. If those things are outsourced this may save money in the short term, but will lead to the collapse of those industries in the medium term.

Doesnt more unemployment make americans more humble?

No, it would appear not.
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Re: Whats wrong with outsourcing US jobs overseas?

Postby wanderlust » Mon Dec 28, 2015 7:28 am

Winston wrote:Whats wrong with outsourcing US jobs overseas? Why is that mentioned as a bad thing? Has anyone else in the mainstream media talked about it since Lou Dobbs of CNN?

Doesnt more unemployment make americans more humble? Doesnt it free them from corporate wage slavery? Doesnt it give humble overseas workers more employment?

If i was a corporation, i would outsource too. Why would i want to hire americans with an entitlement attitude and have to pay them high wages and benefits? And why would i want to deal with anal retentive, super restrictive US business laws?

I guess even corporations can be happier abroad too. Lol. But dont corporations run america though?


It's considered bad because it's bad for us domestically. Overseas workers benefit some, but the truth is the wages they are paid are often unimpressive even by their own local standards. It's common for them to be paid as little as possible. Businesses (and people, for the most part) don't negotiate a "fair" bargain, they drive the hardest bargain that seems prudent under the circumstances. Realistically, unemployment goes down, pollution goes up and wages overseas tend to remain flat. How could big box retailers continue selling to western customers whose wages were falling if their products' labor costs kept rising?

It doesn't make Americans more humble, not for a long time. When people grow up with their expectations shaped over two decades, then circumstances change for the worse, it will be another generation before another group with lowered expectations comes of age. Look at the millenials; their expectations haven't downsized to match new realities. Ask them how free they feel with student loan debt (not dischargeable in bankruptcy), falling wages and a job market in which they're now competing with candidates across the globe.

One major factor that nobody considers is that outsourcing means deindustrialization. The economy of the first world is debt based. When a manufacturer, mine, refinery, mill, etc., closes down, the surrounding areas are stuck with lower wages and higher unemployment while struggling to pay off mortgages. That means less money in circulation, local business slowdowns, worse schools, more substance abuse, higher tax burden relative to income just to pay for basic infrastructure, etc. What happens when it becomes endemic to a whole region? You'd have Appalachia, or Detroit, or Camden NJ all over again. Investment and capital flee regions like these, and doesn't return for a VERY long time. You can't resurrect them with more low-wage immigrants, little shops, taco stands on the street, low-level service companies, etc, or Detroit and Camden would now both be thriving. These types of businesses are only a comment on the health of the core industries of the region.

Which super restrictive or anal-retentive US business laws were you referring to?

For what it's worth, the majority of industrial job loss here has been due to foreign direct competition rather than outsourcing. Previously, tariffs would have penalized foreign government subsidized products, eliminating their advantage. Various trade agreements changed that, and with it came the subsequent deindustrialization. Increased mechanization has also been a factor. Look at where your products were made. China aggressively subsidized certain heavy industries, trying to become self-sufficient. They're hardball negotiators and shrewd accountants; their mercantilism has propelled them to where they are today.
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Re: Whats wrong with outsourcing US jobs overseas?

Postby Winston » Tue Sep 27, 2016 12:20 pm

Donald Trump says that thousands of US companies outsourced their jobs overseas and moved overseas as well. If all these companies moved overseas, then doesn't that mean they are happier abroad too? lol. So even US corporations are becoming happier abroad now? lol

Btw, why do US companies outsource overseas? Is it because of high US taxes, too much regulation, or having to pay too much salary and benefits to workers with entitlement mentality?
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Re: Whats wrong with outsourcing US jobs overseas?

Postby wanderlust » Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:47 pm

Short answer to the first question is, obviously, yes, they are happier abroad, or at least move abroad expecting to be. The executive, anyway, and possibly the shareholders. The US workers, the middle managers, the facilities managers who maintained the plants, their affiliates in the US, not so much. I don't consider corporations to be real people with real feelings, so it's a misnomer to say that the corporation is happier, only certain individuals who gained from such a move. Typically you have a small group raking it in from such a move, and a big group who ends up eating it in lost jobs, foreclosures, more schooling, etc.

The assumption historically is that more unemployment provides a pool of workers for new firms to draw from, and new firms springing up find more efficient ways of producing goods/services, so the rising efficiency has the effect of boosting prosperity and there is no net loss. Developments of the past two decades or so are indicating that this assumption is beginning to break down.

For what it's worth, some who moved abroad end up paying in ways they don't expect: they can find themselves nationalized (Spain's experience with Argentina, various companies in Venezuela, any corporation operating in a communized country is at risk), subject to "protection" payments, a new and unfamiliar bribery system (sometimes they come out ahead here), or they may be made to surrender their technology to government (a requirement in China) only to find that various copycat firms pop up there and eat their lunch.

Why do they do outsource? Because they can. Once the rules change, everyone's behavior changes. That was the whole purpose from the beginning. The rules are passed by legislators whose livelihoods, lifestyles, limousines, expensive suits, first class seats, five star hotels/restaurants, mistresses, etc., are dependent on big corporate money. Look at the donation stats, their campaign donations absolutely dwarf small donations. Show me the legislators who've successfully competed against big corporate $$, and I'll show you a much larger group who've successfully competed using big corporate $$. If someone wants to keep doing things under the old system, they will fight a steeply uphill battle.

Motives would be mixed. Wages/benefits, environmental regs, operational regs. Regulations are broadly cited as the #1 reason, wages being secondary. Corporate tax rate in the US is nominally high at 40% although it's often said that the deductions system is more lenient than in other countries, so the effective tax rate is lower. Environmental factors are huge for heavy industry and some light industry. Many everyday industrial processes are inherently quite toxic, and cleaning them up comes with a big price tag. Potentially it's more lucrative to just move the operation abroad, pay off a corrupt system where elections are a farce, irregular or nonexistent, and keep producing under methods that contaminate surface or groundwater, cause birth defects, spread cancer, etc. Many of the countries where this corporate relocating has been going on, the masses have found their happiness/health dwindling as a result of new problems.

A common assumption made by corporate libertarians is that businesses are inherently different, more moral, that once they have all the money in their hands, once they have the political system sewn up and control the rules, things will be different. I contend that any group that gets extremely powerful will be a threat to people's freedom, health or well-being, whether that's business, religion or government. Ultimately groups don't want to have to compete to maintain their position, they would prefer to be able to monopolize power. Competing is a tactic to get to this coveted scenario.
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Re: Whats wrong with outsourcing US jobs overseas?

Postby droid » Tue Sep 27, 2016 3:05 pm

Winston wrote:Whats wrong with outsourcing US jobs overseas? Why is that mentioned as a bad thing? Has anyone else in the mainstream media talked about it since Lou Dobbs of CNN?
Doesnt more unemployment make americans more humble? Doesnt it free them from corporate wage slavery? Doesnt it give humble overseas workers more employment?
If i was a corporation, i would outsource too. Why would i want to hire americans with an entitlement attitude and have to pay them high wages and benefits? And why would i want to deal with anal retentive, super restrictive US business laws?

Donald Trump says that thousands of US companies outsourced their jobs overseas and moved overseas as well. If all these companies moved overseas, then doesn't that mean they are happier abroad too? lol. So even US corporations are becoming happier abroad now? lol
Btw, why do US companies outsource overseas? Is it because of high US taxes, too much regulation, or having to pay too much salary and benefits to workers with entitlement mentality?


What most fail to realize is that this is ultimately consumer-driven. And from a freedom standpoint, you just can't prevent the consumer from buying from whoever the hell he wants. If you try to force them people will find a way. And i'ts been mentioned before, outsourcing is basically an equivalent "problem" to automation.

This is unstoppable and people should adjust accordingly. Today you can easily order a single item from China on Ebay and get it in a few days for $5 shipping, those are doors that won't close.
In a way these developments are great in that they may at some point get the real issues to be addressed, mainly the questions of land/rent-seeking, gov spending and the monopoly of currency issuance.

Here's a great interview with Jack Ma, he brings stuff up that would've been heresy in China just a few decades ago. The video is incomplete unfortunately.

1)Too much of one thing defeats the purpose.
2)Everybody is full of it. What's your hypocrisy?
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Re: Whats wrong with outsourcing US jobs overseas?

Postby gsjackson » Tue Sep 27, 2016 3:25 pm

Winston wrote:Btw, why do US companies outsource overseas? Is it because of high US taxes, too much regulation, or having to pay too much salary and benefits to workers with entitlement mentality?


All of the above. While most here can attach some meaning to the term "American entitlement mentality," I don't think it fairly includes those who aspire to a middle class way of life, and recall when this was widely accessible. I'm about the only one here who can remember the first 20 years after WWII, when the U.S. was a manufacturing giant and the country had an enormous, quite functional middle class. It was a vastly better country then in almost every way. Now the American middle class is a post-apocalyptic wasteland of human pathology. Outsourcing to find cheap labor -- often called a "race to the bottom," -- and the economic insecurity it's left in the U.S., is a big cause of this.
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Re: Whats wrong with outsourcing US jobs overseas?

Postby Moretorque » Tue Sep 27, 2016 3:34 pm

droid wrote:
Winston wrote:Whats wrong with outsourcing US jobs overseas? The video is incomplete unfortunately.






He looks like a space monster that has been modified to try and pass itself off as a China man, StarChild we need some input.
Last edited by Moretorque on Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Whats wrong with outsourcing US jobs overseas?

Postby wanderlust » Tue Sep 27, 2016 6:52 pm

The first lines of that video: "Well, you know, Jack Ma really had a message for G20 leaders, and that is that we need more globalization, not less. . .

1:23-1:44 "He also said that he's been speaking with the Chinese government to make sure that the Chinese government is on board. As you guys know, we've been reporting this for quite some time, that many companies within the international community here in China, have been complaining or concerned about what they see as rising protectionism by China, and push for local champions."

Who is the "we" the news anchor is quoting Ma in reference to, as in, "we need more globalization. . ."? Obviously it's people in his shoes, international businesses. I would venture that that "we" isn't broad enough to benefit the majority.

Droid, I wanted to ask some clarification on your post:

droid wrote:What most fail to realize is that this is ultimately consumer-driven. And from a freedom standpoint, you just can't prevent the consumer from buying from whoever the hell he wants. If you try to force them people will find a way. And i'ts been mentioned before, outsourcing is basically an equivalent "problem" to automation.

This is unstoppable and people should adjust accordingly. Today you can easily order a single item from China on Ebay and get it in a few days for $5 shipping, those are doors that won't close.
In a way these developments are great in that they may at some point get the real issues to be addressed, mainly the questions of land/rent-seeking, gov spending and the monopoly of currency issuance.

Here's a great interview with Jack Ma, he brings stuff up that would've been heresy in China just a few decades ago. The video is incomplete unfortunately.


What makes say that this is consumer-driven? To me, it appears supplier-driven and producer-driven. There was serious grassroots opposition to NAFTA, and now TPP, but I can't recall much grassroots support for either. Plenty of fear of falling wages, shuttered plants, etc, that turned out to be well founded. If I read your post correctly, you suggest that barriers to international commerce are unjustifiable. Previous generations did not seen it that way, and I don't know of any other country that sees it that way; all the major countries have taken more defensive trade postures than the US. China has been a major beneficiary of globalization, yet, as mentioned from 1:18-1:44, there is now serious opposition to unrestricted trade, as the blade has the potential to cut both directions.

China had mercantilist policies while benefiting from Keynsian, free-trade US policy. When you have tariffs on foreign goods, subsidize state industries to undercut competitor countries, but sell to foreign markets with minimal or no tariffs, is that free trade? That's what's been going on a long time now, the toll has been adding up.

The last lines of your post, I wanted to ask you about those:

droid wrote:This is unstoppable and people should adjust accordingly. Today you can easily order a single item from China on Ebay and get it in a few days for $5 shipping, those are doors that won't close.
In a way these developments are great in that they may at some point get the real issues to be addressed, mainly the questions of land/rent-seeking, gov spending and the monopoly of currency issuance.


What makes you say it's unstoppable? Is it because the economic pressure is too great to be reversed politically? If so, there are other scenarios where the pressure is very great - labor markets are now being globalized through immigration (legal and illegal) and working at home via computer. Would you support open borders? How would people adjust accordingly, as you say? There's not room for 12 million new sellers of Chinese items on ebay, probably not room for 250,000. Would they go back to school? How would they pay for schooling with huge downward pressure on wages? The smartest 5% of India and China combined is about 130 millon, about 81% the size of the US labor force. A quick search of employment projections shows the STEM-C fields won't grow fast enough to accommodate dozens of millions of displaced workers. Starting a a business requires capital and failure rates are high. Demand would contract with falling wages.

Finally, what makes you say that questions of land/rent-seeking, gov spending and monopoly of currency issuance are the real issues (I assume, in contrast to everything else)? Job loss, falling wages, deflation due to automation and globalization of labor markets would potentially be huge.
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Re: Whats wrong with outsourcing US jobs overseas?

Postby Moretorque » Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:42 pm

wanderlust wrote:The first lines of that video: "Well, you know, Jack Ma really had a message for G20 leaders, and that is that we need more globalization, not less. . .


Finally, what makes you say that questions of land/rent-seeking, gov spending and monopoly of currency issuance are the real issues (I assume, in contrast to everything else)? Job loss, falling wages, deflation due to automation and globalization of labor markets would potentially be huge.


Essentially Droid is correct, to anybody who has 1/2 a brain do you have property rights with the current corporate system being built world wide you call the "corporate money driven system " and the answer is no!

Look at the size of world wide bond debt vs corporate debt.

There is no comparison, the money masters run the show here and we the corporate structure below them suck their a$$ plain and simple for a handout.

There are over 800 patents in the US patent office under perpetual motion devices for power that are deemed classified, they do not want people to know we can be making everything locally and live in our local eco systems without our masters and their socialist scheming.

This is about total world wide control over all resources and all economic activity to shackle us from cradle to grave and their hoping the stooges can't figure it out! " which they can't "

Here in America they are passing laws for mandatory vaccinations so even our own bodies are no longer ours and the usurping of the issuance of purchasing tickets world wide is why we are being driven this direction by a small ruling class.
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Re: Whats wrong with outsourcing US jobs overseas?

Postby starchild5 » Wed Sep 28, 2016 1:58 am

Moretorque wrote:
droid wrote:
Winston wrote:Whats wrong with outsourcing US jobs overseas? The video is incomplete unfortunately.






He looks like a space monster that has been modified to try and pass itself off as a China man, StarChild we need some input.


Wow man....you are becoming genius everyday....have you been eating Tulsi lately..Your cognitive abilities and to discern the truth have increased....common....You taking Tulsi right :lol:

I have mentioned this two years back itself...This Jack Ma guy is a fraud and nothing but a grey hybrid human Alien....

He is pretending to be a China man as you mentioned...He does not even look like a regular chinese guy

I have posted my research in davidIcke forum two years back....posting it here as well..people here seems to be more smarter than braindead brits...

YOU ARE RIGHT

Jack Ma Looks Like An Alien Largest IPO in History
https://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=281545

He is the founder of Alibaba Group...The largest internet company in China with sales of ebay and Amazon combined.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...0FJ0BV20140714

Alibaba handled more than 1.5 trillion yuan - about $248 billion - of transactions for 231 million active users across its three main Chinese online marketplaces in 2013, more than Amazon and eBay Inc combined.

http://www.businessinsider.in/How-Ja...w/42477968.cms


Next week, Alibaba will start trading on the New York Stock Exchange, in what could be the biggest offering in U.S. history. Bloomberg reports that Alibaba wants to sell 12% of the company. Analysts value the company at $160 billion. Tht would mean Alibaba raises ~$20 billion, which is more than Visa, the current high for an IPO which raised $19.65 billion.

Ma still owns a 8.9% stake in the company, which means he'll be worth ~$14.5 billion if the $160 billion valuation holds. Ma is no longer the CEO of Alibaba. He's the chairman, but he's still the face of the company.


Ma has never been a typical tech CEO. He failed the college entrance exam twice before he finally got in. He founded an enormous tech company, yet he had studied to become a teacher and still doesn't know how to code. Back in the mid-2000s, when Alibaba was battling eBay in China, reporters used to call him "Crazy Jack" because of his animated manner of speaking and bold goals.

----------------------------

Many inconsistencies

1. He is Non-Askanazi

2. Does not know how to code.

3. Just a teacher.

4. Elite Western Cabal will allow a Non-Ashkanazi, Non-Royal Bloodline to simply take over the internet and NYSE.

5. Western corporate media is unusually positive on him.

..He is the founder of an Empire called Alibaba....His company overshadows all the elite companies combined.

I had doubts when I first looked at his pictures and background Cinderella rags to riches story...Now people in comments on many sites are also mentioning that this guy looks really weird and looks like an Alien..This is coming from sheeps who are not into conspiracy.

Image

Image

Image
He has a rather unusual facial structure.

Plus just like Greys...He is very thin and of small stature with an unusually large head. He seems to be the Perfect Human - Grey Hybrid
that the conspiracy sites talk off

If you do not believe it....explain why the western corporations who are bitter against anyone taking over their turf are so good on him.

He is expanding his empire and he will be bigger than Bill gates, Mark Zuckerberg, Larry Page, Sergey brin, Google, Microsoft, Amazon, Ebay, Apple combined.

p.s - Not trying to be racist etc on any ethnicity ..I'm just intrigued and surprised at his meteoric rise over taking even the companies owned by elites....in such a short period of time....The elite cabal in the western world seems to have no issue with this guy. They are not bad mouthing him...
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Re: Whats wrong with outsourcing US jobs overseas?

Postby droid » Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:09 am

wanderlust wrote:The first lines of that video: "Well, you know, Jack Ma really had a message for G20 leaders, and that is that we need more globalization, not less. . .
1:23-1:44 "He also said that he's been speaking with the Chinese government to make sure that the Chinese government is on board. As you guys know, we've been reporting this for quite some time, that many companies within the international community here in China, have been complaining or concerned about what they see as rising protectionism by China, and push for local champions."

Who is the "we" the news anchor is quoting Ma in reference to, as in, "we need more globalization. . ."? Obviously it's people in his shoes, international businesses. I would venture that that "we" isn't broad enough to benefit the majority.


That's why I said it's unfortunate the video is not the complete interview. He goes on to say that it's of prime importance to have free trade and globalization for small businesses and young people, i don't have the verbatim words, but to that effect.
As far as international businesses, the lines are getting blurred more and more and we all are international businesses. I would go as far and say you are doing international business when you walk into a Walmart to get some sneakers. I understand the connotation of corruption here, but it's precisely that, corruption is corruption, but trade itself shouldn't be erroneously blamed.

wanderlust wrote:Droid, I wanted to ask some clarification on your post:
...
What makes say that this is consumer-driven? To me, it appears supplier-driven and producer-driven. There was serious grassroots opposition to NAFTA, and now TPP, but I can't recall much grassroots support for either. Plenty of fear of falling wages, shuttered plants, etc, that turned out to be well founded. If I read your post correctly, you suggest that barriers to international commerce are unjustifiable. Previous generations did not seen it that way, and I don't know of any other country that sees it that way; all the major countries have taken more defensive trade postures than the US. China has been a major beneficiary of globalization, yet, as mentioned from 1:18-1:44, there is now serious opposition to unrestricted trade, as the blade has the potential to cut both directions.

China had mercantilist policies while benefiting from Keynsian, free-trade US policy. When you have tariffs on foreign goods, subsidize state industries to undercut competitor countries, but sell to foreign markets with minimal or no tariffs, is that free trade? That's what's been going on a long time now, the toll has been adding up.


I think my points have been rather clear, I risk repeating myself here.
The most ruthless agent in the economy is not the capitalist, nor the communist or the industrialist, it's the consumer. People will instantly grab whatever provides a better value without regards for anything else. It's human nature. If you are to survive as a business you have to comply with that, no way around that.
People will say one thing on the soapbox but do another when it comes to grabbing the shinier apple that's 1 cent cheaper.

Again, from a freedom-of-action perspective yeah the trade barriers would be unjustifiable, you cannot force the consumer not to shop where he wants.
And like I said the lines are getting more blurred and blurred with newer technologies. Where is the line between buying some service or software piece online and clicking on a physical item and have it at your door in a few days?


wanderlust wrote:The last lines of your post, I wanted to ask you about those:
...
What makes you say it's unstoppable? Is it because the economic pressure is too great to be reversed politically? If so, there are other scenarios where the pressure is very great - labor markets are now being globalized through immigration (legal and illegal) and working at home via computer. Would you support open borders? How would people adjust accordingly, as you say? There's not room for 12 million new sellers of Chinese items on ebay, probably not room for 250,000. Would they go back to school? How would they pay for schooling with huge downward pressure on wages? The smartest 5% of India and China combined is about 130 millon, about 81% the size of the US labor force. A quick search of employment projections shows the STEM-C fields won't grow fast enough to accommodate dozens of millions of displaced workers. Starting a a business requires capital and failure rates are high. Demand would contract with falling wages.


It's the new technologies and the practical mentality of younger people that make it unstoppable.
Open borders are a different matter, it's kind of an apples and oranges thing, because open borders imply the influx of people of different values and behavior. It's a different discussion. Free trade is just about objects and services, and again, the freedom of the individual purchaser.

The purpose of automation or the use of any other free labor (yes, all this brought about by the consumer) is to precisely displace workers and reduce their hours of labor. People are still confused at large and deem this a curse.

I've postulated this before, you can't have the argument of the job-displacement while simultaneously denying there has been the benefit of the lower prices.
What happens is that in as much as automation or free labor is involved, it is reflected in lower prices (the curve converging at "free") and the fewer work hours should get evenly distributed among the workers. This doesn't happen because of artificial reasons, this is why you end up with some not finding work while others overtime themselves to death. One has to dig deeper to find where people's stuff is getting siphoned off, i think blaming trade for the problems is erroneous.

The economy in principle can be extrapolated to absurdum to make it easier to analyse the problems, by assuming automation will replace all jobs, as it will.
Start any analysis from that point.

wanderlust wrote:Finally, what makes you say that questions of land/rent-seeking, gov spending and monopoly of currency issuance are the real issues (I assume, in contrast to everything else)? Job loss, falling wages, deflation due to automation and globalization of labor markets would potentially be huge.


Don't focus on "falling wages" but on unnecessary, rising costs.
Any deflation due to automation is a good thing, deflation due to a lack of currency availability is a different matter.

To make this brief, there is a big problem in that manufactured goods can be automated away, but people still need to pay for a place to stay. What happens when you have nothing to offer to the land-lord? The elephant in the room is that people worldwide are excluded from land ownership at birth and everyone is chasing their tails paying overpriced rents and mortgages. Food for thought is the material from Henry George, i don't necessarily agree with everything but it think he raises important points:

http://www.henrygeorge.org/rem0.htm


Government spending needs no explanation at this point in time. Suffice to say americans make 200bn in interest payments alone and then they wonder why they can't make ends meet, and why all the imported cheap goods and ever-improving technology don't make up the gap.

Not to sidetrack but It's important to reveal one important aspect when it comes to interest though -i was going to make a thread on this-, that inflation is mainly caused by government deficits. This is even ignored by Libertarians, dishonestly trying to crutch the argument that low or zero interest rates are pernicious. They are pernicious only because the government is allowed to borrow even though it has a bad record.
It follows that with low interest rates, they print and spend at will, yet industry and consumers are the ones blamed at the end i.e. 'the economy is overheating', 'malinvestment' blah blah. It's a perfect swindle.

Check this out:
http://www.marketskeptics.com/2010/10/why-deficits-stopped-mattering.html

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On the currency monopoly, this is in part the root of all other problems and gives rise to all other parasites. It's not the monopoly "of the means of production" as dogmatic armchair marxists pretend, but of the blood of trade. Obviously It can not be stressed enough that new notes are needed to support further trade, but the fresh printed money is given only to those close to the power circle for free, while the rest are perennially taxed for its use.
An eye opener on the money question is given by mostly unknown Edwin Riegel, i really recommend reading him

http://www.mind-trek.com/treatise/ecr-pem/
Last edited by droid on Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
1)Too much of one thing defeats the purpose.
2)Everybody is full of it. What's your hypocrisy?
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Re: Whats wrong with outsourcing US jobs overseas?

Postby droid » Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:44 am

starchild5 wrote:
Moretorque wrote:
droid wrote:jack ma

He looks like a space monster that has been modified to try and pass itself off as a China man, StarChild we need some input.

Wow man....you are becoming genius everyday....have you been eating Tulsi lately..Your cognitive abilities and to discern the truth have increased....common....You taking Tulsi right :lol:

I have mentioned this two years back itself...This Jack Ma guy is a fraud and nothing but a grey hybrid human Alien....

He is pretending to be a China man as you mentioned...He does not even look like a regular chinese guy


You're not fooling anyone, it's YOU!
That explains your high-end condo in the Philippines. Be honest, you bought the whole building right out....

starchild5 wrote:p.s - Not trying to be racist etc on any ethnicity ..I'm just intrigued and surprised at his meteoric rise over taking even the companies owned by elites....in such a short period of time....The elite cabal in the western world seems to have no issue with this guy. They are not bad mouthing him...


I don't think it's that deep, i just think it's Chinas turn to have some weight and counter the anglo-zog presence, we're talking about a 1.2 billion mass that hasn't been directly zog infiltrated. This and more is to be expected, things are not absolute.
Last edited by droid on Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
1)Too much of one thing defeats the purpose.
2)Everybody is full of it. What's your hypocrisy?
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Re: Whats wrong with outsourcing US jobs overseas?

Postby Winston » Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:47 am

The thing about all these complaints and condemnation from Donald Trump and Lou Dobbs about outsourcing US jobs overseas is that they ASSUME that we care about Americans more than foreigners, and that we all want to stay in America cause it's the best place in the world. But that's not true. Those are false assumptions. Why would I care about a bunch of spoiled, snobby, entitled Americans who don't even talk to their neighbors and don't even care about me and don't even invite me to their house for a BBQ? Why would I give a shit about people who don't give a shit about me? It's illogical.

Plus we all know that there are many better countries to live in than America that provide more freedom, and a better social life and dating life, as well as better health and mental health. So why would we love USA more than other countries? There's no logical reason to be that patriotic about America, yet all Americans on TV assume that we are all patriots who love America and Americans more than any other country, just because. It's a false assumption. I wish those stupid Americans who assume this could read this.
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