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Warning: The True Consequences of Having Children! Must Read

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Warning: The True Consequences of Having Children! Must Read

Postby Winston » Thu Aug 04, 2016 5:11 am

Hi all,
Several years ago, I wrote this ultimate essay about the true consequences of having children that society does not properly warn you about or educate you about. But I never posted it because I thought it might be too controversial and contain too many unpleasant truths that are too offensive. But I think I should post it anyway, at least to generate discussion, thought and awareness. Otherwise, all the effort I put into it would be for naught. So here it is.

I hope you all find it enlightening, useful, and gives you something to consider. Now before you cast judgment and throw flames at me, keep in mind that the reason I write pieces like this is because I live by Socrates' motto that, "An unexamined life is not worth living." Thus I believe I write these things for a noble cause.

Title: Warning: The True Consequences of Having Children - The Ugly Truth

Alternate titles:
Children: The Biggest Sacrifice With No Return - What Society Never Tells You
Why Children are Parasitic Energy Vampires - The Ugly Truth
Warning: Why Having Children Could Be Your Biggest Mistake
Warning: Why Having Children Could Ruin Your Life
Warning: Why Having Children Could Ruin Your Life and Be The Biggest Mistake of Your Life

"An unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates

Warning: This essay contains unpleasant truths told in an unpleasant manner that may offend some. Those who are easily offended should not read this.

As we all know, society says you are incomplete until you have a family and raise children. It is part of our social programming. When you grow up, you are taught that your purpose and function in life is to get a job and raise a family. Your parents expect you to get married and have kids so they can have grandkids. And all your friends are getting married and having kids of their own, leaving you left out. You may also feel that you have to continue your genetic line rather than having it end with you. So you need to keep up by having kids and fulfilling everyone's expectations right? That's normal life right? And once you have kids, you just need to become a responsible parent and take care of them, and then you will have one big happy family right?

Well that's the rosy dream and mythos that's instilled into you by your society and culture, so that you will become a responsible person with a stable career that will support a family. All this is to ensure the continuation of the human race and sustain the economy.

But there's a lot more to it than that which society never tells you or warns you about. And that's what I'm going to do here. What this rosy "happy family" dream doesn't tell you - are the grave consequences, opportunity costs, sacrifices, and parasitic nature of life that all this entails, which is in actuality A LOT MORE than you can imagine. It doesn't tell you about the actual function that children serve in the cycle of human life, which is a lot uglier in truth than you are told. And that's what I'm here to WARN you about, because society will not, for reasons I will explain later.

To begin, let me lay out the objective reality for you with no bull or nonsense.

The practical definition of children

First, let's be real about what children actually are. Are children cute and wonderful? Well sure, you can see them that way (especially yours) if you want. But that aspect is not gonna have any practical significance here. You see, kids are not just "cute little human beings". They are much more than that. In practical and technical terms, they are two things:

1. Children are living creatures that are vampiric and parasitic in nature, who feed off their host parents, draining and sucking them up dry.
2. Children are a commitment to an 18+ year UNPAID job that you CANNOT quit once you start.

Let me elaborate on both definitions, starting with the first.

1. Children are living creatures that are vampiric and parasitic in nature, who feed off their host parents, draining and sucking them up dry.

All living creatures, from bacteria to plants and animals, are energy vampires who must leech off other energy sources for survival and nourishment. All life forms are parasitic by nature. And children are no different, especially when they are born. They will literally feed off of you, in more ways than one. It starts with breastfeeding of course, and then moves on to feed off all other major areas of your life - your energy, time, resources, emotion, willpower, life force, personal space, privacy, etc. What that means is that as a parent, YOU become the host for these "parasitic leeches", to be used and sucked up of most of your energy, time and resources, and then tossed aside when these "creatures" reach maturity and adulthood. At that point, they will set off on their own toward the horizon to their new life, leaving you in the dust, worn and used up.

So, you essentially serve as the vessel or host that they need to suck the life out of, in order to survive and reach maturity, so that they can go out there and raise families of their own, and repeat the cycle. Now, that may be an ugly way to put it, and it may sound like some science fiction horror movie (e.g. "Aliens"), but essentially, that's how it IS. That is the way children function, what they do to you, and how the human life cycle perpetuates itself.

You can dress up this ugly truth with the big L word (love) all you like, which is what Mother Nature expects you to do and in fact instills into you, in order for you to accept and cope with it all. But that doesn't change the technicality of it. No matter how much "love or happiness" you receive from your children, you are still the host that they leech off of and suck dry, in order to survive and reach maturity. Moreover, they will not even be useful to you in any way, except for doing house chores.

During this process, you will be drained of your energy, life force, time, resources, emotions, willpower, freedom, etc. leaving you no freedom or opportunity for any other ambitions in life. After that, you will be old, over the hill, used up, and waiting to die. You will no longer be young, attractive to the opposite sex or seen as fertile. Your function will have been used up. Your grown children may visit now and then, call you every week, and thank you for being a good parent, but those are subjective emotional benefits of no real practical value. They will not bring back your youth, lost life, lost time, lost resources, lost opportunity costs, etc. That's how it all works in the final analysis.

In simplest terms, children TAKE more than they give - A LOT more in fact, than you can imagine - even more than words can describe. Thus the give-take relationship between parent and child is completely imbalanced and one sided. It is not for anyone who likes being selfish or values their freedom. On the contrary, it completely enslaves you, restricts you, and eliminates your personal freedom. Your only reward is the big L word. Only those who are self-sacrificing and willing to place parental love and responsibility above all else in life will be able to endure it all.

2. Children are a commitment to an 18+ year UNPAID job that you CANNOT quit once you start.

IMPORTANT: Keep these serious facts in mind. Having children is a two decade UNPAID job in which YOU are the sole GIVER and they are the sole TAKER. It is a job you cannot ethically get out of or quit. You are bound to it til you see it through. And you will NOT be paid or rewarded with anything of a material nature. You cannot be selfish in this job or put your interests first. And you are definitely NOT FREE in it. In this job, you are essentially a SERVANT to someone else - a selfish "king" so to speak, who reacts on whims and instinct, and throws temper tantrums, caring for nothing but itself. This "king" will also behave like a wild animal that you have to tolerate and tame, whom you can not just "throw out". In this job, it no longer matters whether you live under a political system of democracy, communism, capitalism, oligarchy, anarchy, fascism, or whether you have a Constitution or Bill of Rights. None of that matters, because your personal freedom is all gone... GONE! So you'd better be happy about it, or else you will have made the wrong choice in taking up this job in which there is no turning back. Furthermore, even once this unpaid job is over and they become adults, you still have to worry about them and take care of them psychologically, and be their backup safety net to fall back on if their life falls apart. So in that sense, this is a lifetime commitment as well.

Now if you can accept these terms and are happy with them, then you just might be cut out to be a parent. But if you think about it, this job entails a lot - more than you can imagine, or possibly even bear, and all without any monetary pay, compensation or tangible reward. The only return you get is a subjective emotion called "love". So you must ask yourself: Is a child's love really worth all that? Is it really worth giving up everything for? If you answer yes, then you just might be cut out to be a parent after all. If not, you'd better reconsider the whole thing. Remember, you are NOT incomplete or abnormal just because you don't have a child, as society tries to BS you into thinking.

These practical definitions of children above are unpleasant sounding no doubt. I could have just come out and said: "Children are useless leeches and parasites who put you into an 18+ year unpaid job that you can't get out of" but that would have been a horrible way to put it. So I'm trying to put it at lightly as possible. But the fact is, what children do to you and take out of you are horrible things to think about when you take it all in.

However, you are conditioned to want it and accept it all as "part of your normal life", because society tells you that your function in life is to get a job and raise a family, which you are told will bring the love you need into your life. You are never told the ugly practical truths above. They are never truly or accurately defined to you in a realistic manner. You are never told about the parasitic nature of bringing living creatures into your life, the two decade servitude and enslavement it entails, and what it will do to you. Instead, you are told things such as "Parenting - It's the toughest job you'll ever love".

Now I am not saying that everyone should not have children. Some are cut out to be parents, and some aren't. I'm just saying that you should be aware of the true sacrifices, opportunity costs, and consequences to your life of having children, without the BS spin put on by society. After that, if having kids is still what you truly want and need, then congratulations. More power to you. You may be cut out to be a parent after all. Mother Nature needs people like you in order to perpetuate the continuation of the human race.

However, if all this sacrifice and cost is too great, more than it is worth to you, then you should understand that you do NOT have to have children just because society tells you to or everyone else is having them. You see, if you are not cut out to be a parent, and you end up having kids just because society tells you to, or everyone else is having them, then it could end up being the BIGGEST MISTAKE of your life that you will regret forever! And that's what I'm trying to warn you about.

Basically, some people are cut out to be parents, and some aren't. The reality is that not everyone is cut out to be a parent. Not everyone will be happy giving up so much, or everything, just to raise other living creatures. Not everyone is such a giver. Not everyone lives for children and raising families.

But the problem is, society never tells you that. It does not properly educate people about that so that they can choose whether to be a parent is right for them or not. Instead, society falsely assumes that EVERYONE wants to be a parent. Therein lies the chief problem which I want to bring awareness to, because it just isn't true and moreover, could have serious disastrous consequences on those unsuited for parental life.

But society does not acknowledge this reality, nor does it want to. Instead, it assumes that everyone is the same in all wanting to be slaves and parents. So it molds everyone the same way, like a cookie cutter factory, through its educational indoctrination system consisting of brute memorization, obedience and test taking, and social programming as well. In doing so, society forgets that not everyone is the same or cut out to be slaves and parents. It doesn't take this into consideration because it doesn't want to. Society does not like dissidents or freethinkers, it only likes conformists.

You gotta understand that society is not there to give you freedom or truth. Society is there to CONTROL you and mold you into a certain way that will best serve its interests. This is why society treats you like a product on an assembly line in a cookie cutter factory, and assumes that you are the same as everyone else. Ideally, it wants you to become a "happy slave" that will work hard and contribute to the productivity of the economy, while perpetuating the continuation of the human species as a "happy parent" at the same time. In doing so, society hopes to create a win-win situation for both you and it - in that you serve its interests and the economy, while being a "happy slave and parent" at the same time. That is society's ideal scenario for you. But alas, reality is not always a win-win situation. And some people are not cut out for being a "happy slave or parent", but instead, live for freedom and ambition.

Now, if this is you, then doing what society wants and being what it wants you to be, will not make you happy, but enslaved instead. You gotta understand and accept that, and realize that you're not going to be happy or free by conforming to society's standard. Otherwise, you could become unhappy and feel imprisoned. And if you have kids, it could be the biggest mistake of your life, because while you can change your lifestyle or job, you cannot undo children once they are born. Such a mistake cannot be reversed. That's why you should treat it as the most important decision of your life and do what's best for you and your happiness.

Look at the long-term big picture and ask yourself what kind of person you really are, and who you really are. Are you a selfless giver type, or a selfish taker type? Are you a committed family man yearning to settle down, or a freedom-loving explorer who does not like to be controlled? Or are you something in between? Only you can answer that.

If you a person who likes routine, commitment, responsibility, familiarity, stability, family, kids, settling down, and do not need much freedom, then you will be better suited for these sacrifices and consequences. But if you love freedom, travel, adventure, romance, and are ambitious, then be warned. Children could be the biggest mistake of your life.

But no one can tell you what to do. Only YOU know what's truly best and right for you. All people like me can do is make you aware of the true consequences of such an important decision such as this, and what you will be getting yourself into.

Now, let me elaborate a little more below on the direct consequences to your lifestyle that children will bring, which you will need to consider. This time, I will not use such unpleasant terms like "energy vampires" or "parasitic leeches" anymore, which you've probably had enough of. This will still be matter of fact though, yet honest and real at the same time. So here are some important things to consider about having children and how it will affect your life.

1. Once you have kids, you can't go back. They will NEED someone to serve and provide for them, so that they will have a proper environment to grow up in. And if you don't provide that, then you become the villainized "deadbeat dad". Even if you live apart from them and support them, you will still be seen as an "absent father". So it's not pretty either way. You either sacrifice your life and freedom, or become a villain. It's a Catch-22 lose-lose situation.

2. Thus, it is no wonder why many fathers have ran away from this dire predicament, choosing to become a villain (aka deadbeat dad) rather than give up their life and freedom, as society says they should. Some people just can't deal with the burden of children. It simply has no place in their life. And some just don't care about children period, even their own. That's too bad. But if they don't care, you can't force them to care. All you can do is get them to provide support.

3. When you have children, you lose a lot, big time - your freedom, life, time, resources, peace of mind, privacy, and a lot more. You are forced to place their interest before yours. Essentially, you live for them, not for yourself. That is a hard adjustment that some people are not prepared for or can handle. They lock you down with responsibilities and commitments. And sometimes they will drive you crazy. There will be many moments that you regret having kids too, especially when you hear the baby crying at night.

4. Furthermore, they give you the emotional stress of constantly having to worry about them all the time, as well as their safety, health, education, etc. Even after they grow up and are on their own, you still worry about them - about what they're doing, their health, their decisions, etc. So they are a huge burden to you psychologically too, for life.

5. You will have to slave away at a job - a corporate dictatorship environment, to support them with your hard earned money, even though they did nothing to earn it except by being your children. If you aren't a giving generous type, this will be difficult for you. And when they reach college age, what are going to do? Give away all your savings for their college education? College is just a money making operation, no different than a scam, according to many freethinkers, intellectuals and students who were placed in debt for life by it. Are you going to give in to that too? Shouldn't your savings be used for your dreams? When will you be done living for others and being a servant to them? Sheesh.

6. So what do you get for all this trouble, sacrifice, stress, loss, and enslavement? NOTHING! ZILCH! NADA! ZERO! No return on investment. Nothing tangible. So if you evaluate this as a logical business decision, it would be the worst deal you ever made! Sure you get their love in return, the joy of watching them grow up, the joy of having a family (well sometimes, when they're not driving you crazy), spending time with them, etc. But these things are all subjective and personal, not quantifiable or tangible. I'm referring to tangible benefits here. In that area, you are left empty handed, sorry to say. Furthermore, if you raised them in America, they will become SPOILED brats who are UNAPPRECIATIVE of the sacrifices you made, because as we all know, modern American culture breeds selfishness, corruption, narcissism, big egos, arrogance, rather than good traditional family values as it did in the 50's and 60's.

7. By the time your children move out, all they will give you is a "Thanks for being a good parent" before they ride off into the horizon to start their new life. So all you get is a "thank you". And by then, you will be old and waiting to die. You will no longer be attractive, and your life will be over, your best years gone. All sacrificed for kids. So when you finally have your freedom back, you won't be able to enjoy it as much anymore. Instead, you will begin having health problems to deal with.

8. Moreover, even if you love children, you are still taking a big risk by having them, because:

- You have no control over what kind of personality your child will have. He or she may have a personality that may not get along with your, or may be incompatible with you.
- There is no guarantee that the child won't be born with chronic health problems or complications, which would become a big burden and worry on you.

So in effect, you are risking a lot of trouble simply because society and others say so.


Conclusion

So, in the final analysis, you don't get anything for all your immeasurable trouble and sacrifice in raising children. All in all, you gave up everything for nothing. Will it be worth it? Think about it. You may end up making the worst business decision of your life - giving up your freedom, time and resources, sacrificing so much with no return on investment. But will it be the right decision? Or will it be the biggest mistake?

Well that depends on you. If raising a family is your purpose in life and what you live for, and you are selfless and committed, and do not have any conflicting ambitions or goals, then it might be for you, though you may have occasional bouts of regret when you are fed up with their behavior. If you are cut out to be a parent after all, then it might just be the "toughest job you ever love" as they say. But only you can know that.

In the final analysis, only you know what's best for you. No one can tell you what to do. But at least I've told you what you need to know, by warning you and making you aware of the true consequences of your decisions in this matter. I hope you choose wisely and make the right choices for yourself so that you have no regrets.

I think this is a very complex decision, whether to have children or not. It's a Catch 22 - damned if you do, damned if you don't. Whether you have children or not, both paths will lead to some form of suffering. Not having kids will make you feel empty and incomplete since you have no kids to love, but having them will make you irritated and annoyed a lot, and take away all your freedom for many years. So either way, there is pain. It's a Catch 22. And as such, it's never an easy decision.

I think ultimately, you basically just have to decide which of these pains and consequences you can better bear. You also gotta listen to your heart. I know that's a cliche, but it's true. Your heart knows better than your head, about what's right for you and what you truly want.

Thank you for reading.
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Re: Warning: Why Having Children Could Ruin Your Life! Must

Postby MarcosZeitola » Thu Aug 04, 2016 5:30 am

What we see here is the view of a man who had a kid because he wanted a kid badly, but was never willing to give up his playboy lifestyle for said kid. A man who "wants his cake and eat it too", that pretty much sums you up, Winston. Of course, having a kid and being in that kids life regularly, is something you perceive as life-ruining; you never really thought this through. You made a hasty decision to have a child, then you got bored of his mother, annoyed with him, and decided they stole too much of your precious time and freedom... if you are an innately selfish person, fine! You just have to know yourself. Maybe you never knew your true self, until you became a father.

Having a child can indeed ruin your life - if you have the child for the wrong reasons, with the wrong mother. Or if you, yourself, are still a child. If you genuinely want one, have a great wife or girlfriend and you are committed to being a great father, there really isn't a lot to worry about. Sure things could go wrong later on, you could break up, divorce. But most countries in the world besides America have fairly reasonable laws still that aren't necessarily anti-father or anti-male. Sure, the kid could end up handicapped but if you are your partner have no history of handicapped people in your respective family trees, it's a small risk. And sure, it is expensive but if you ensure you have your ducks in a row first, it shouldn't be too much to handle.

Too many people just have kids without thinking things through, that's the problem. And if you want a "return on your investment", have your kids in a foreign country, preferably third world but with the option of them going to the first world for study, education or work. Raising them in the decadent West is what makes them drain you, however if you raise them in a culture that still values family and respecting one's parents above all else, there really isn't a lot for you to worry about.

I think your essay is tainted by your own experiences with your child, Winston, and your own failures as a father. Your disappointment shines through.
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Re: Warning: The True Consequences of Having Children! Must

Postby gnosis » Thu Aug 04, 2016 5:35 am

Good comments Marcos.

Winston, the role of parent is a Spiritual role. It is a lifelong role. When you become a father, you are a father for the rest of your life.

Part of that means you need to stop thinking about yourself and start thinking about your child. I always feel a little bit sad when I meet parents who had kids but never became less self-absorbed.
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Re: Warning: The True Consequences of Having Children! Must

Postby Winston » Thu Aug 04, 2016 5:37 am

Maybe Marcos. But did you read my essay? This isn't about the morals or ethics of having children. This is about the factual consequences of having children. True many people have children for the wrong reasons, including me perhaps. But if I had known the true consequences outlined above, I may not have had one. So I wrote it to tell people the truth and consequences, which society and the media doesn't do.

Whatever you think Marcos, you can't deny that the consequences I present are factual and objectively true. But how you interpret them and deal with them is another matter.
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Re: Warning: The True Consequences of Having Children! Must

Postby chanta76 » Thu Aug 04, 2016 6:03 am

Winston,

I agree with you that having a family is a social construct that society expects you to do. Asian culture is very much programmed this way. I also agree kids are huge investment of money and time . Not everyone should be a parent nor should everyone get married but saying that if we all decide not to have kids in one generation the human race will disappear that is if we ALL stop reproducing.

But so what? Why then should we have kids?

I have a niece and I see my sister and her husband together and I can understand why they wanted a child. Kids sometimes bring different dynamic and joy to the family. I mean just look at all those baby pictures and Kodak moment. Raising child for some people is reward itself. You get to see life grow in front of you with your guidance and influence . Again not easy to do but I met parents who enjoy raising their kids.

I met families where as the parents get old the kids help out. For some parents if they have good relationship the kid will be there for them. At the same time there is something called love. I met dads who didn't really want to be dads but when their wives gave birth and saw their baby you see a change in these men. They became softer, responsible and positive about life. It's like that kid changed them for the better. I knew one really bitter Asian guy..he did somehow manage to get married but his greatest joy was his son. He loves his son and wants to do what he can to be a good father.

So I agree kids are huge investment and you do lose personally freedom but for some people kids give them joy and different type of love. I also have to add I met people who wanted kids because they actually wanted a piece of them to live on. It's like if you pass your genes to the next generation a part of you lives on. It sounds stupid to me but you be surprise how many people want kids because of this reason.

My question is Winston since you have a son. Do you regret having him? Do you love him? If your son died how would you feel? Overall Winston I do agree with your logic. Having kids is more work and maybe it's not worth it. However, I spoke to many parents...many of them say they love being parents..unless some of them are lying to me. I also agree not everyone is meant to be a parent.
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Re: Warning: The True Consequences of Having Children! Must

Postby Yohan » Thu Aug 04, 2016 2:09 pm

Winston wrote:.....This isn't about the morals or ethics of having children. This is about the factual consequences of having children. True many people have children for the wrong reasons, including me perhaps...


There is something true with your article for sure.

The point is in my case maybe about time. Marriage/children, this was seen totally different 40 years ago. Today however a marriage contract is nothing else anymore but a sell-out for a man - it's only about responsibility, with no right... A single mother is more respected than a husband and father. Sad, but true.

-----
About myself, I was lucky in my life so far. I never had any Western girlfriend. At that time I was sad about it, but now I see the consequences of those men who married Western women - ALL of them I know personally - former classmates etc. - are divorced, some of them several times, some with children but without contacts with them despite they pay child support and even alimony. Marriage, children - for what? Just to be a walking ATM after divorce?

I was lucky, as I married young an Asian woman, moved to Asia, and now 39 years later, I am still married with the same wife, I also have 2 daughters and one of them pregnant, I will be grandfather soon. I also have a Filipina foster daughter. I am often in good contact with all of them, but looking back I saw them only late in night when coming home, or during my vacation. Never had much time for them, a few hours if lucky per week. Further, it was financially not easy for my wife and me, I was working for many hours... overtime etc. My wife had the children and also elderly care...

Looking back in my life, I am happy, not dissatisfied, and lucky too, as not even one person in my family was acting against me.
I expect also a nice future after my retirement next year. But many men are not in the same position as I am, they lost everything they were working for because of malicious family members next to them.

But if you ask me if I do it again if I could repeat my life from the very beginning on? You might be surprised, but I think my answer is NO, and I cannot recommend anybody to do in future what I did in my past.

Nowadays the marriage contract is worthless, without any rights and only full with obligations. About children even worse, children have now more rights than their parents, especially when we talk about fathers. Looking back, do not ask me how much money and time I spent for my wife and my own children and my foster daughter and also for elderly care of our parents.

My life is nice, no problems at all, but without family I would be for sure in a much better position than I am now. Is it really worth to sacrifice yourself as a husband and father? To share a large part you earn because of your work? To risk your health because of excessive overtime? To work even when you feel sick?

Maybe yes, as long as your family members care about you too. Or not?

Good question and worth for a discussion.
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Re: Warning: The True Consequences of Having Children! Must

Postby chanta76 » Thu Aug 04, 2016 2:23 pm

Yohan,

When you say if you had to repeat it again and you wouldn't? Why? You say you were happy with your life . Do you think you be happier if you didn't get married or have kids? I like to know your reason.
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Re: Warning: The True Consequences of Having Children! Must

Postby gnosis » Thu Aug 04, 2016 6:46 pm

Yohan wrote:But if you ask me if I do it again if I could repeat my life from the very beginning on? You might be surprised, but I think my answer is NO, and I cannot recommend anybody to do in future what I did in my past.

Nowadays the marriage contract is worthless, without any rights and only full with obligations. About children even worse, children have now more rights than their parents, especially when we talk about fathers. Looking back, do not ask me how much money and time I spent for my wife and my own children and my foster daughter and also for elderly care of our parents.

My life is nice, no problems at all, but without family I would be for sure in a much better position than I am now. Is it really worth to sacrifice yourself as a husband and father? To share a large part you earn because of your work? To risk your health because of excessive overtime? To work even when you feel sick?


I really appreciate your honesty. Could you elaborate more on your feelings about this? Are you essentially recommending that young men today not try to do what you did?
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Re: Warning: The True Consequences of Having Children! Must

Postby Winston » Fri Aug 05, 2016 8:30 am

chanta76 wrote:Winston,

I agree with you that having a family is a social construct that society expects you to do. Asian culture is very much programmed this way. I also agree kids are huge investment of money and time . Not everyone should be a parent nor should everyone get married but saying that if we all decide not to have kids in one generation the human race will disappear that is if we ALL stop reproducing.

But so what? Why then should we have kids?

I have a niece and I see my sister and her husband together and I can understand why they wanted a child. Kids sometimes bring different dynamic and joy to the family. I mean just look at all those baby pictures and Kodak moment. Raising child for some people is reward itself. You get to see life grow in front of you with your guidance and influence . Again not easy to do but I met parents who enjoy raising their kids.

I met families where as the parents get old the kids help out. For some parents if they have good relationship the kid will be there for them. At the same time there is something called love. I met dads who didn't really want to be dads but when their wives gave birth and saw their baby you see a change in these men. They became softer, responsible and positive about life. It's like that kid changed them for the better. I knew one really bitter Asian guy..he did somehow manage to get married but his greatest joy was his son. He loves his son and wants to do what he can to be a good father.

So I agree kids are huge investment and you do lose personally freedom but for some people kids give them joy and different type of love. I also have to add I met people who wanted kids because they actually wanted a piece of them to live on. It's like if you pass your genes to the next generation a part of you lives on. It sounds stupid to me but you be surprise how many people want kids because of this reason.

My question is Winston since you have a son. Do you regret having him? Do you love him? If your son died how would you feel? Overall Winston I do agree with your logic. Having kids is more work and maybe it's not worth it. However, I spoke to many parents...many of them say they love being parents..unless some of them are lying to me. I also agree not everyone is meant to be a parent.


Yes I agree with you. Good points. This is a complicated decision. There are pros and cons on both sides. But society only presents the pros of having kid. Not the cons that I listed. So someone should list the cons properly too.

To answer your questions: No I don't regret having a son. My son doesn't take away from my freedom. He lives with Dianne and I basically do what I want. So no sacrifice there on my part except for helping pay for his expenses by giving a few hundred dollars a month. Plus he is more well behaved now and easygoing, since he is 8 now. Not much temper tantrums anymore.

Yes I love my son, but not the way most parents do, as though their children were a part of them. I don't attach to a child deeply to the point where they are a part of me. I may attach to women that I love that way, as though they were a part of me. But not children. If my kid died, I would feel sad and bad of course, but it would not be as if part of me had died. I wouldn't sink into depression and have nothing to live for. I've never understood why in the movies and TV shows, when parents lose their children, they sink into a deep depression and become suicidal and depressed, as though their life were gone and had lost the will to live. I don't relate to that. Children are replaceable too. If you were to lose your child, you can have another one.

Sorry if that sounds bad. But I don't connect deeply with children the way I do with romantic partners. I'm more hardwired for romantic love, not parental love. Maybe I just don't have that nurturing instinct. I don't know. I definitely don't understand how parents can live totally for their children, as if their life's purpose was just for their children, and they had nothing else to live for. Or how many couples stay together after the love has gone, just for the children. I've never been able to relate to that.

Sorry if that sounds bad. Maybe I'm hardwired differently than other people. But who knows. If I spent more time with my son and helped him grow, I might develop a deeper attachment to him. Who knows.
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Re: Warning: The True Consequences of Having Children! Must

Postby Yohan » Fri Aug 05, 2016 2:40 pm

gnosis wrote:I really appreciate your honesty. Could you elaborate more on your feelings about this? Are you essentially recommending that young men today not try to do what you did?


Maybe you know that I am an administrator/sponsor of a MGTOW-Internet-Forum since many years.

Yes, correct, I do not recommend young men to try to do in future what I did in my past. It's too risky.

All what is happen with a young man now in Western countries depends solely on the goodwill of his girl - she can do whatever she wants with him, she can cheat on him, can beat him, can at the same time refuse to have sex with him, can falsely accuse him and sent him to jail to get rid of him, can abort or give away his child for adoption, can even claim he is the father in case she is pregnant from another man, can force him to pay her alimony even decades after divorce, can kick him out of his own home...Finally, keep in mind, your own children have more rights than you as their father.

This is the legal situation now, there is nothing left which you might call 'equality' in feminism - do you really want to sell off yourself and give everything away you were working for?
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Re: Warning: The True Consequences of Having Children! Must

Postby Yohan » Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:08 pm

chanta76 wrote:Yohan,

When you say if you had to repeat it again and you wouldn't? Why? You say you were happy with your life . Do you think you be happier if you didn't get married or have kids? I like to know your reason.


I do not think if I had the chance to change my age and to start again as a young man that I will repeat what I did in my past.

For sure as a single man I would be now in a much better financial position and nevertheless without any obligations and responsibilities.

I am lucky, as I have no disputes with my Japanese wife, married since almost 40 years and I have 2 daughters, there was no problem for them to consider marriage as for a female there is no risk to worry about anything. I have also a Filipina foster daughter, who is also a good person and still studying, now in her last semester.

However when looking around, ALL of my friends I know still from Europe are now divorced, some of them several times, ALL of them lost a lot of money and assets, in all cases the children were given to the mother and they pay and pay, but it is often impossible to visit them. In my native country in Europe divorce peak was 68 percent in cities, 51 percent in rural areas.

To marry again, to have children again? And what is next? To divorce? For what should this be good for? Why to take this high risk that something is going badly wrong with you even with your best intention?

I am now MGTOW, I am really risk-averse. I do not like being controlled and used by others.
Last edited by Yohan on Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Warning: The True Consequences of Having Children! Must

Postby Adama » Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:11 pm

Children need discipline. If your child is unruly and disrespectful, it is because you did not apply the rod early enough. Apply the rod and it will give the child's father rest. If you do not apply the rod, it is proof that you hate your own child. Naturally a vegetarian wouldn't figure this out.
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Re: Warning: The True Consequences of Having Children! Must

Postby yick » Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:53 pm

Genuine question, not digging you out or anything - but do you think your dad regretted having you? Do you think you were a blot on his landscape and if he hadn't have had you, he would have had an easier or better life?

What does your father think about your continued semi-abandonment of your own son, does he get angry? Is he upset he doesn't get to see his only grandchild? Does he wish you stepped up more.

From what I know about you Winston, you have a great father, a real, decent, good, loving father who is on hand with good advice and he truly cares and loves you. I have read his emails to you and I think (and I am sure most people on here who have read the discourse between you and your dad) that you have got a father to be proud of, but your son doesn't have a father to be proud of, someone who won't be there for him.

You have had something important in your life, something your son will never have. So my question is - how does your father feel about all that?
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Re: Warning: The True Consequences of Having Children! Must

Postby chanta76 » Fri Aug 05, 2016 4:27 pm

Yohan,

Im little confused by your answer. You say if you were a young man again you would not risk getting married or having a family because its too risky nowadays but it seems like even if you went back in the past you would not want to get married or have a family.

I mean arent you successful? Your still married and have two daughters that came out good along with a good foster daughter. I mean your telling me if you can go back in the past you wish never to meet your wife or have your kids? Dont your love your family? Or was it waste for you to have a family? I ask this as a personal question.

Making money is one thing but coming back to a big empty house is another.

Mgtow is really about men just doing there own thing and that could mean getting married or having a family .

My question to you is if you never got married or had a family you would never known your daughters or wife. Your saying you regret being with them?
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Re: Warning: The True Consequences of Having Children! Must

Postby chanta76 » Fri Aug 05, 2016 4:37 pm

Winston,

I have to disagree. You cannot just replace children. If i had a child and that child died. I cant just go out replace that child. That child was unique and special.

I have to agree with yick. You have a very understanding father. I wish my father was little bit more like your dad. If i understand when your in taiwan you are with family. Your dad never really abandon you.

Im not judging you or how your relationship is with your son but if your father did what your doing to your son. Would you be ok with that? Your dad was supportive of you.

I think with you to be blunt your more of a monger at heart than someone really looking for real relationship. You want a relationship but you also want to eat your cake too.

In the end you will not find it. Its either just monger or ve truly genuine to your partner and that also means being devoted.

Maybe your right hard wired differently.
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