Warning: Why Having Children Could Ruin Your Life and Be Your Biggest Mistake! Must Read!

[Eric]

Op is a piece of human shit. How would you feel if your father spoke that way about you or didn't care about you. This is everything wrong with society today. It is selfish people thinking only about themselves no responsibility or regard for children if you decide to have them.

[Falcon]

Actually, the thesis of the original post (advocated by Winston) and its antithesis (advocated by Marcos Zeitola) both have very valid points It depends on the context: who you are, what your goals are, who you're dealing with, and so on. There is no right black-and-white answer or one-size-fits-all solution.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

If you want to invest in making a child a huge success, choose a high IQ mother with a child and invest in that child's future. That is far better than simply siring a slovenly and worthless child for bragging rights among your drinking buddies.

How about the child's father, is he high IQ too? You can pick a very intelligent accomplished woman, highly educated, an entrepreneur, whatever, and the guy who knocked her up in the first place might still be stupid as hell.

What you are missing is the fact that a high IQ mother will stand a better chance of RAISING the child well and inculcating the child with habits like reading, doing homework, etc. For some reason you only focused on the genetic aspect which still would be enhanced with a high IQ mother, regardless of the father's intelligence.

I mean a lot of women are left by their baby daddies, some are widows, it's not always their fault necessarily. But the facts remain; you are helping out another man in doing his duties for him. It may win you the woman's heart and the child's affection, some degree of societal praise perhaps, but Charles Darwin shakes his head. Oh well, live and let live I suppose. A large part of it is just ego on our parts, anyway lol, I won't deny that. But there is a reason most men and women have the desire to leave something behind, it's just a part of nature, evolution, instinct, whatever. And those who do not answer the call of nature tend to end up rather miserable in the end. Then again, so do plenty of those who do answer said call.

You are illustrating a blue pill mindset here when you excuse single mother's by choice. And don't give me that crap about the men simply leaving. The single mothers RUN them off using the law as their proxy. And why are you not holding these women accountable for the horrible choice in men they made?

As to your point about children being part of a natural call, BS! It is what YOU and some others have accepted as your call because of your conditioning. Not everyone is so inclined.

[Falcon]

Another point is that many people choose to raise non-biologically related cats and dogs over biological children. They are spending time and resources raising animals that they are not biologically related to. So apparently, they must be cucks too.

Plus, it's really not that expensive to raise a child in Thailand. Once you account for the school fees, there's not really that much that I pay for. I eat a lot anyways, and food is dirt cheap in SE Asian, so additional food costs due to having a child aren't an issue for me. Medical care is covered by the Thai government's 30-baht scheme. No need for daycare fees. And my daughter uses a lot of hand-me-downs, so clothing and toy expenses are close to zero.

It seriously costs more per year to raise a dog or cat in the US than it does to raise a child in Thailand, except if you are paying a lot for expensive private education.

[Falcon]

So who should we listen to?

1. Pro-natalist Marcos Zeitola: "Pop out a baby now! You need your own little kiddie. And do it quickly!"

2. Anti-natalist Winston Wu: "No kids! You've gotta be free. Don't be a slave to ungrateful little tykes. Be a freethinking independent man!"

[MarcosZeitola]

So who should we listen to?

1. Pro-natalist Marcos Zeitola: "Pop out a baby now! You need your own little kiddie. And do it quickly!"

2. Anti-natalist Winston Wu: "No kids! You've gotta be free. Don't be a slave to ungrateful little tykes. Be a freethinking independent man!"

Wait a few decades and see who's happier in the long run, me or Winston. That's the only way to be entirely sure lol. But even if you did an experiment like that, there's still this little thing called 'individual preferences', and one man's freedom may be another man's prison, one man's hell another man's heaven.

As far as natalism and anti-natalism are concerned, it's not a label I ascribe to. Natalists tend to be religious extremists, not a crowd I hang with. And anti-natalists are, largely, a group of very depressed people with a wide variety of issues. Miserable cunts, to say it less diplomatically.

I realize that you probably intend this post to be humorous, but "do it quickly" wouldn't be my advice. Do it in the right time, would be. Whenever that may be. Winston had his child in his late thirties. He's hardly father-of-the-year material. Maybe he would have been a better father if he had Angelo at age fifty, after he lost some of his wild hairs and perhaps some of his libido or ability to land younger and attractive women in bed. No shame in being an older father. Had I not met Mrs. Zeitola it's not unlikely I would have been an older father as well. But to die never having had a family, would have made me miserable.

Funny how both the natalist and the anti-natalist in your little comparison are fathers. Lets hope Angelo Wu doesn't browse these forums too much.

[Eric]

So who should we listen to?

1. Pro-natalist Marcos Zeitola: "Pop out a baby now! You need your own little kiddie. And do it quickly!"

2. Anti-natalist Winston Wu: "No kids! You've gotta be free. Don't be a slave to ungrateful little tykes. Be a freethinking independent man!"

Wait a few decades and see who's happier in the long run, me or Winston. That's the only way to be entirely sure lol. But even if you did an experiment like that, there's still this little thing called 'individual preferences', and one man's freedom may be another man's prison, one man's hell another man's heaven.

As far as natalism and anti-natalism are concerned, it's not a label I ascribe to. Natalists tend to be religious extremists, not a crowd I hang with. And anti-natalists are, largely, a group of very depressed people with a wide variety of issues. Miserable c**ts, to say it less diplomatically.

I realize that you probably intend this post to be humorous, but "do it quickly" wouldn't be my advice. Do it in the right time, would be. Whenever that may be. Winston had his child in his late thirties. He's hardly father-of-the-year material. Maybe he would have been a better father if he had Angelo at age fifty, after he lost some of his wild hairs and perhaps some of his libido or ability to land younger and attractive women in bed. No shame in being an older father. Had I not met Mrs. Zeitola it's not unlikely I would have been an older father as well. But to die never having had a family, would have made me miserable.

Funny how both the natalist and the anti-natalist in your little comparison are fathers. Lets hope Angelo Wu doesn't browse these forums too much.

You are such a strange person.

[Falcon]

You are such a strange person.

No, Marcos Zeitola's posts make a lot of sense. They're very well thought-out and bring a fresh air of rationality to this sometimes crazy forum.

We might not agree with everything he says, but at least he brings quite a bit of badly needed thought and sanity back to this forum, like Rock and Duende.

[willymonfrete]

In Catholicism children are a blessing from God and we consecrate our child to the Holy Trinity,also contraception is not allowed.irreligious westerners are just selfish ,wich is why they will be outbred by Arabs and Turks in their own turf.

[S_Parc]

Wait a few decades and see who's happier in the long run, me or Winston. That's the only way to be entirely sure lol. But even if you did an experiment like that, there's still this little thing called 'individual preferences', and one man's freedom may be another man's prison, one man's hell another man's heaven.

Comparing oneself to Winston could almost be described as a Straw Man scenario. Winston's a man whose 20s/30s have run out, but in place of finding a new road for his 40s and beyond, he just loops through the same stuff, year after year.

Today, I've past my first anniversary of marriage and for the life of me, can't understand how anyone would want to spend anymore than a *single post* per business quarter, on a negative forum like this.

If you want a truly happy MGTOW, you need posterers like Bosstone, not lost causes. And men like Bosstone will never waste their hours here, telling others what to do.

[Falcon]

Also, it's more important to have an authentic spiritual and personal connection rather than just a blood relation. Winston knows about this too, and so does Chanta. Like Chanta, I have had many bad experiences with blood relatives and do not see how continuing the family's bloodline like royalty can necessarily lead to happiness and fulfillment. I also really do not think that I would actually feel much closer to my biological children than to my current daughter, or love them more.

Vibing with people on a personal level goes far beyond genetics, money, or other superficial things in life. Otherwise, if we all thought like this, the world would be devoid of adopted children, orphanages, humanitarian aid, and other forms of altruistic behavior. Altruistic people may not help their own immediate bloodline to attain maximum benefits, but they help their own communities or the human species as a whole to thrive. What would the world have been like without the various celibate monks who had contributed so much to science, humanitarianism, and the world in general?

Many guys just focus on money, power, and blood relations. But Winston is able to look past these things and analyze everything at a deeper level.

Blood relatives can be nasty and mean. They might take their relationships with you for granted and treat your very poorly because of that. My own blood kin can be very mean in that they will keep scolding you on little things and random personal beef with you, even more so than your typical unpleasant Asian boss. You can't just chit-chat with them about little things and share little jokes. Every time I contact them, I have to be prepared for scolding, negative comments, uncomfortable questions, and controlling behavior - which may or may not happen. It's like walking on eggshells with them. Please see Winston's Critical Observations about East Asian Mentality and Culture. http://www.happierabroad.com/Asian_Mentality.htm

On the other hand, non-blood kin can be absolutely wonderful if you have taken the time and effort to build trust and empathy with them. I can talk to my Thai family about all kinds of things and not have to worry about being randomly picked on. They can understand and appreciate my interests in natural history and world languages, whereas my family members would keep saying that such interests are completely "useless," i.e. not economically profitable (typical of many money-centered ethnic Chinese). And my daughter and I bond with each other like no other. It's a hard-to-explain spiritual thing that Winston constantly mentions.

A Montagnais-Naskapi (First Nations / Native American) man of Labrador, Canada once famously said to a French Jesuit missionary, "You French people love only your own children; but we love all the children of our tribe." The French missionary scolded the natives for taking care of and loving non-biological children as if they were their own, and had very strict views about sex, marriage, children, and family structure. On the other hand, the natives led a more egalitarian and less rigid life.

[Winston]

I now have a daughter. Although she is not my biological daughter,

The word cuck gets thrown around a lot these days, but jeese you are a total cuck. And what does your cuckishness do in the long term? It allows dirtbags to impregnate females with the knowledge that cucks like you will raise their bastard offspring. Although it may seem you are doing the right thing in the particular situation you are in, in fact, you suck. Hope this helps.

Cornfed, please don't call Falcon a "cuck". It sounds derogatory and it appears you are using the wrong word. Falcon does not fit this definition below.

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/cuck

Cuck, short for “cuckold,” is a term referring to a man with a female significant other who engages in sexual activities with other men. Online, the term is often used as a pejorative to condescendingly describe a male who is sexually inadequate or sexually submissive.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cuck

Cuck is a man who's a little bitch. Contrary to the beliefs of the liberal leaning crowd trying to explain something popularized by the conservatives, cuck is used by many races for someone who is spineless and IS derived from cuckold.

Her cuck boyfriend watched as a man flirted and felt up his girl in front of him.

She cheated on him and told him it would never happen again, he's such a cuck to believe that.

[Falcon]

Thanks Winston, that was nice of you.

How's everything going in the Philippines, or wherever you might be right now? We should meet again sometime, especially if you ever come to Thailand again.

[books]

Tell me honestly the true advantages of having children?

[OutWest]

Tell me honestly the true advantages of having children?

I have three kids and I am glad for it. I am grateful every day for what they bring to my life, but understandably, some men do not want children. In many cases, including some on this forum, it is a very good thing they do not reproduce. Some genetic lines are best ended.