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Warning: The True Consequences of Having Children! Must Read

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Re: Warning: The True Consequences of Having Children! Must

Postby Moretorque » Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:39 am

OutWest wrote:
Moretorque wrote:
OutWest wrote:
Ghost wrote:The only reason we're even able to think like this is because the world has (artificially and temporarily) become very comfortable and easy. It's funny that the consequences of having children talk about the consequences of having children, and they always do in the decadent periods of declining societies.

I want to have kids someday, although it's far from certain. My main reservation is not whether or not raising kids is difficult, but what kind of world I'd be bringing them into, and whether or not I could adequately raise them and teach them how to survive without turning them into scumbags.



Most here may be the symptom if that declining civilization. Note all the whimpering going on....

We are setting out from port Townsend Washington tomorrow on our boat for a week in the San Juan's .
My "crew" consists of my wife and three kids.
My terrible tragedy of having kids is the best thing I ever did.

You can live life, or spend your time navel gazing.....


The problem is your kids have to live here after you die, the reports I was reading stated by the end of this century if things continue unabated at minimum 50% of the living organisms here on earth will be extinct.

Be smart and don't have anymore please, next generations are screwed bad..................


You are illustrating my point. You speak of the numbers of children as if you are tallying sea cucumbers.
Fully cognitive functioning souls are in great shortage, while
Grunting skin covered broccoli abounds. It will take exceptionl
Great people to bring humanity back from the brink.


In 30 or 40 short years your children will probably be cursing you for bringing them here, they will probably take a hatchet to your pecker..........So get ready to run! :shock: :shock:
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Re: Warning: The True Consequences of Having Children! Must

Postby OutWest » Mon Aug 08, 2016 3:40 pm

Moretorque wrote:
OutWest wrote:
Moretorque wrote:
OutWest wrote:
Ghost wrote:The only reason we're even able to think like this is because the world has (artificially and temporarily) become very comfortable and easy. It's funny that the consequences of having children talk about the consequences of having children, and they always do in the decadent periods of declining societies.

I want to have kids someday, although it's far from certain. My main reservation is not whether or not raising kids is difficult, but what kind of world I'd be bringing them into, and whether or not I could adequately raise them and teach them how to survive without turning them into scumbags.



Most here may be the symptom if that declining civilization. Note all the whimpering going on....

We are setting out from port Townsend Washington tomorrow on our boat for a week in the San Juan's .
My "crew" consists of my wife and three kids.
My terrible tragedy of having kids is the best thing I ever did.

You can live life, or spend your time navel gazing.....


The problem is your kids have to live here after you die, the reports I was reading stated by the end of this century if things continue unabated at minimum 50% of the living organisms here on earth will be extinct.

Be smart and don't have anymore please, next generations are screwed bad..................


You are illustrating my point. You speak of the numbers of children as if you are tallying sea cucumbers.
Fully cognitive functioning souls are in great shortage, while
Grunting skin covered broccoli abounds. It will take exceptionl
Great people to bring humanity back from the brink.


In 30 or 40 short years your children will probably be cursing you for bringing them here, they will probably take a hatchet to your pecker..........So get ready to run! :shock: :shock:



As I was saying...skin covered broccoli.
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Re: Warning: The True Consequences of Having Children! Must

Postby Winston » Fri Aug 12, 2016 4:45 pm

To my dad:

"Btw please read this post about how my life was totally f***ed up in 1981 and went from heaven to hell.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=31451&p=265157#p265157

You should feel some deep guilt and regret about it. Its a lot more serious than you imagine. You dont know what its like to be teased, ridiculed, mocked and bullied for 7 years EVERYDAY by 30+ kids from 1982 to 1989. It totally f***s you up for life. You can never forget it. Like a damaged root inside a tree, it stays with you forever. You never forget it. You are lucky you didnt experience this. Its much much worse than you can imagine. Much much worse. The psychological damage i incurred goes far beyond any words can describe.

My childhood was much worse than that of an abused or raped child even. My suffering was much greater than theirs. Yet the media and psychology literature only talks about their suffering, not mine.

Even God cannot understand how much damage and suffering i went through. Jesus only suffered on the cross for one day. On the other hand, i suffered everday for 7 years! So theres no comparison. Therefore, even God does not understand what i went through.

When i googled the schools in palo alto i went to, including springer elementary, i find that people said they were wonderful positive environments. This means that had i stayed there i probably would have had a much happier childhood. And become a normal adult.

You cannot keep ignoring this issue. You should feel deep regret and guilt about it. I still do. Because its true and real and it happened. You cannot repair a permanently damaged root. Think about it please. Dont avoid this topic or brush it aside stubbornly."
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Re: Warning: The True Consequences of Having Children! Must

Postby MarcosZeitola » Fri Aug 12, 2016 6:37 pm

Winston wrote:To my dad:

"Btw please read this post about how my life was totally f***ed up in 1981 and went from heaven to hell.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=31451&p=265157#p265157

You should feel some deep guilt and regret about it. Its a lot more serious than you imagine. You dont know what its like to be teased, ridiculed, mocked and bullied for 7 years EVERYDAY by 30+ kids from 1982 to 1989. It totally f***s you up for life. You can never forget it. Like a damaged root inside a tree, it stays with you forever. You never forget it. You are lucky you didnt experience this. Its much much worse than you can imagine. Much much worse. The psychological damage i incurred goes far beyond any words can describe.

My childhood was much worse than that of an abused or raped child even. My suffering was much greater than theirs. Yet the media and psychology literature only talks about their suffering, not mine.

Even God cannot understand how much damage and suffering i went through. Jesus only suffered on the cross for one day. On the other hand, i suffered everday for 7 years! So theres no comparison. Therefore, even God does not understand what i went through.

When i googled the schools in palo alto i went to, including springer elementary, i find that people said they were wonderful positive environments. This means that had i stayed there i probably would have had a much happier childhood. And become a normal adult.

You cannot keep ignoring this issue. You should feel deep regret and guilt about it. I still do. Because its true and real and it happened. You cannot repair a permanently damaged root. Think about it please. Dont avoid this topic or brush it aside stubbornly."


I had already decided for myself I would no longer reply on this thread, and to try and avoid this issue as it feels like beating a dead horse to debate a man as stubborn as you. But here I find, I cannot contain it anymore. The urge to call you out on this absolute nonsense, this hypocracy. It's just too much...

You are writing to your father, telling him how he should feel "deep guilt and regret" over sending you to a different school where you were subsequently bullied. Fair enough, you were obviously bullied, you obviously were traumatized and had a terrible time; no one here is denying that. However, what I find appalling is that you would wish for your father to feel deep guilt and remorse over the way he raised you, the decisions he made for you, when you yourself aren't even in your sons life. At least your father was there for you. When you were a little boy, did he tell you "your mother is racially inferior to me and does not sleep with me anymore, I must go abroad and sleep with many women", and left for months at a time? Did he do that? I seriously doubt he did. He just put you in a school you were unhappy in. A bad school, perhaps. Maybe he should have paid more attention. But when you had issues, he helped you. He sent you to a school camp in Taiwan where you had a great time over summer. And when you had psychological problems, he made sure you got professional help. He did all that for you, and I wonder how many of these things you would do for your own son.

What will you say to Angelo when he is a grown man, like you are yourself writing this. What will you say to him when he comes up to you one day (assuming he still wishes to see you at that point which is quite a stretch) and says: "Dad, why did you abandon me and my mother? Why did you have me, only to leave when I was young and needed you the most?" Reading this, you will probably say to him something along the lines of: "Your grandfather once put me in a different school. I was bullied. I was very traumatized, and that f***ed up your father's life. That is why I was never there for you." He will ask you, why you consider your own father's actions an excuse for your treatment of him. After all, you are responsible for your own choices, and having Angelo was your choice. Raising him, consequently, was your responsibility. Angelo is a smart kid, he's top in his class isn't he? He will question your motives, and poke right through all your excuses. Realizing what you refuse to realize: that just saying "I am a permanently damaged root that cannot be repaired, and therefore I am excused of my own responsibilities as a father". No, Winston, it does not work like that.

You write about how you were traumatized, because your father put you in a terrible school where you were very unhappy. You were bullied, taunted, and overall miserable as a result. But a lot of kids are bullied in school. It's almost endemic, especially in the US where things have gotten so out of hand that you've seen many school shootings over the last decades. I know of people who had it worse then you. You say your suffering was "worse then that of kids who have been abused or raped", my God your shamelessness knows no bounds! Do you know my grandfather had a youth far, far worse then your could ever imagine? He was an orphan who never had a father and mother looking over him, loving him, like you did. He grew up in orphanages where he had to beat up his bullies with an iron bike chain just to make them stop abusing him. From the ages of 10 to 15 he was a slave laborer on farms in the countryside, working the field while his schoolmates went to play sports before and after school hours. And you know what he did, when he was an adult? He made it his goal, to ensure his own kids would have an amazing childhood. He married, had three kids and he was an amazing father to them. He took his own miserable experience growing up, and made it into a motivation to be the best man he could be, the best father, the best husband.

Do you think you are the only member of this forum, who was ever bullied as a kid? Do you think you were the only kid bullied in elementary school? And do you think all those who were bullied, are all damaged beyond repair and therefore doomed to be lousy parents? My God, Winston, how thick can you be! I was bullied when I was a kid, in elementary school. For two years I had a hard time, being from the poor side of town and attending a school in the richest part of town. Had a terrible time until after two school years of hell, I was able to beat up the ringleader of the bullies. Knocked him down and bashed his head on the ice of a frozen lake. That is when the bullying stopped. It did not destroy me, it made me stronger if anything. And I went on with my life, knowing elementary school would be over one day and I would be able to reinvent myself in high school. Which I did.

What I am saying, Winston, is that we all have our issues. We all have our traumatic experiences, often involving events from our early childhood. We have to overcome those issues, and even when we cannot overcome them, even if part of those memories will always haunt us for the remainder of our lives, we have to be strong. We cannot hide behind those issues. We cannot use them as an excuse, to pardon us from responsibility in our own lives. Your father made his mistakes. I do not deny that, as all fathers made their mistakes. I know mine did! And I know, I will make plenty of mistakes with my own kids. But at least he was present in your life. Now you have to man up, and be there for your own son. This is a circle, a vicious cycle, a never ending chain you see. If your father made mistakes with you, and you repeat them tenfold, the pain you feel now will still be felt by the generations after you. Your son, and maybe even his son, will feel the pain you feel now. Because you could not overlook your own part in all this.

Someone who had a bad childhood, will usually have two basic reactions. The most common one is, that this person will say: "If I have a kid, I will be there for him and be the best parent I possibly can be". Another response would be to say: "I have to spare a child this existence in life, this hell I went through. I should not have a child, so the cycle will end with me". But you decided to have a kid anyway, and instead of making his happiness your priority like how I know your father prioritized yours, you just said f**k it, and left him to his mothers care as you went away to chase p***y and romance. You have the power to turn your own issues, your own traumas, into something positive. To learn vital lessons from the mistakes of your parents, and do everything in your power not to repeat them. Instead you just yell at your father, telling him to feel guilty, to regret his actions... while shrugging your shoulders at the things in your life, that YOU ought to feel guilt and regret over.
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Re: Warning: The True Consequences of Having Children! Must

Postby Winston » Fri Aug 12, 2016 6:59 pm

MarcosZeitola wrote:
Winston wrote:To my dad:

"Btw please read this post about how my life was totally f***ed up in 1981 and went from heaven to hell.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=31451&p=265157#p265157

You should feel some deep guilt and regret about it. Its a lot more serious than you imagine. You dont know what its like to be teased, ridiculed, mocked and bullied for 7 years EVERYDAY by 30+ kids from 1982 to 1989. It totally f***s you up for life. You can never forget it. Like a damaged root inside a tree, it stays with you forever. You never forget it. You are lucky you didnt experience this. Its much much worse than you can imagine. Much much worse. The psychological damage i incurred goes far beyond any words can describe.

My childhood was much worse than that of an abused or raped child even. My suffering was much greater than theirs. Yet the media and psychology literature only talks about their suffering, not mine.

Even God cannot understand how much damage and suffering i went through. Jesus only suffered on the cross for one day. On the other hand, i suffered everday for 7 years! So theres no comparison. Therefore, even God does not understand what i went through.

When i googled the schools in palo alto i went to, including springer elementary, i find that people said they were wonderful positive environments. This means that had i stayed there i probably would have had a much happier childhood. And become a normal adult.

You cannot keep ignoring this issue. You should feel deep regret and guilt about it. I still do. Because its true and real and it happened. You cannot repair a permanently damaged root. Think about it please. Dont avoid this topic or brush it aside stubbornly."


I had already decided for myself I would no longer reply on this thread, and to try and avoid this issue as it feels like beating a dead horse to debate a man as stubborn as you. But here I find, I cannot contain it anymore. The urge to call you out on this absolute nonsense, this hypocracy. It's just too much...

You are writing to your father, telling him how he should feel "deep guilt and regret" over sending you to a different school where you were subsequently bullied. Fair enough, you were obviously bullied, you obviously were traumatized and had a terrible time; no one here is denying that. However, what I find appalling is that you would wish for your father to feel deep guilt and remorse over the way he raised you, the decisions he made for you, when you yourself aren't even in your sons life. At least your father was there for you. When you were a little boy, did he tell you "your mother is racially inferior to me and does not sleep with me anymore, I must go abroad and sleep with many women", and left for months at a time? Did he do that? I seriously doubt he did. He just put you in a school you were unhappy in. A bad school, perhaps. Maybe he should have paid more attention. But when you had issues, he helped you. He sent you to a school camp in Taiwan where you had a great time over summer. And when you had psychological problems, he made sure you got professional help. He did all that for you, and I wonder how many of these things you would do for your own son.

What will you say to Angelo when he is a grown man, like you are yourself writing this. What will you say to him when he comes up to you one day (assuming he still wishes to see you at that point which is quite a stretch) and says: "Dad, why did you abandon me and my mother? Why did you have me, only to leave when I was young and needed you the most?" Reading this, you will probably say to him something along the lines of: "Your grandfather once put me in a different school. I was bullied. I was very traumatized, and that f***ed up your father's life. That is why I was never there for you." He will ask you, why you consider your own father's actions an excuse for your treatment of him. After all, you are responsible for your own choices, and having Angelo was your choice. Raising him, consequently, was your responsibility. Angelo is a smart kid, he's top in his class isn't he? He will question your motives, and poke right through all your excuses. Realizing what you refuse to realize: that just saying "I am a permanently damaged root that cannot be repaired, and therefore I am excused of my own responsibilities as a father". No, Winston, it does not work like that.

You write about how you were traumatized, because your father put you in a terrible school where you were very unhappy. You were bullied, taunted, and overall miserable as a result. But a lot of kids are bullied in school. It's almost endemic, especially in the US where things have gotten so out of hand that you've seen many school shootings over the last decades. I know of people who had it worse then you. You say your suffering was "worse then that of kids who have been abused or raped", my God your shamelessness knows no bounds! Do you know my grandfather had a youth far, far worse then your could ever imagine? He was an orphan who never had a father and mother looking over him, loving him, like you did. He grew up in orphanages where he had to beat up his bullies with an iron bike chain just to make them stop abusing him. From the ages of 10 to 15 he was a slave laborer on farms in the countryside, working the field while his schoolmates went to play sports before and after school hours. And you know what he did, when he was an adult? He made it his goal, to ensure his own kids would have an amazing childhood. He married, had three kids and he was an amazing father to them. He took his own miserable experience growing up, and made it into a motivation to be the best man he could be, the best father, the best husband.

Do you think you are the only member of this forum, who was ever bullied as a kid? Do you think you were the only kid bullied in elementary school? And do you think all those who were bullied, are all damaged beyond repair and therefore doomed to be lousy parents? My God, Winston, how thick can you be! I was bullied when I was a kid, in elementary school. For two years I had a hard time, being from the poor side of town and attending a school in the richest part of town. Had a terrible time until after two school years of hell, I was able to beat up the ringleader of the bullies. Knocked him down and bashed his head on the ice of a frozen lake. That is when the bullying stopped. It did not destroy me, it made me stronger if anything. And I went on with my life, knowing elementary school would be over one day and I would be able to reinvent myself in high school. Which I did.

What I am saying, Winston, is that we all have our issues. We all have our traumatic experiences, often involving events from our early childhood. We have to overcome those issues, and even when we cannot overcome them, even if part of those memories will always haunt us for the remainder of our lives, we have to be strong. We cannot hide behind those issues. We cannot use them as an excuse, to pardon us from responsibility in our own lives. Your father made his mistakes. I do not deny that, as all fathers made their mistakes. I know mine did! And I know, I will make plenty of mistakes with my own kids. But at least he was present in your life. Now you have to man up, and be there for your own son. This is a circle, a vicious cycle, a never ending chain you see. If your father made mistakes with you, and you repeat them tenfold, the pain you feel now will still be felt by the generations after you. Your son, and maybe even his son, will feel the pain you feel now. Because you could not overlook your own part in all this.

Someone who had a bad childhood, will usually have two basic reactions. The most common one is, that this person will say: "If I have a kid, I will be there for him and be the best parent I possibly can be". Another response would be to say: "I have to spare a child this existence in life, this hell I went through. I should not have a child, so the cycle will end with me". But you decided to have a kid anyway, and instead of making his happiness your priority like how I know your father prioritized yours, you just said f**k it, and left him to his mothers care as you went away to chase p***y and romance. You have the power to turn your own issues, your own traumas, into something positive. To learn vital lessons from the mistakes of your parents, and do everything in your power not to repeat them. Instead you just yell at your father, telling him to feel guilty, to regret his actions... while shrugging your shoulders at the things in your life, that YOU ought to feel guilt and regret over.


Uh no MarcosZeitola. You must have a LOW IQ. Why do you keep twisting and misunderstanding everything I say? f**k MAN!!!!!!! Why don't you get on Skype so I can explain everything clearly to you? Yet you keep avoiding my messages on Skype and are never available for calls!

Did you read what I wrote? I was HAPPY at my school in Palo Alto. Happy and well adjusted. If we had stayed there, I would have turned out normal and a functioning adult. This site wouldn't exist. So yes, he made a HUGE MISTAKE, a mistake bigger than you can imagine!

Furthermore, when he knew about this mistake, he did NOTHING! Once he knew how unhappy I was in Fremont, he could have moved me back to Palo Alto, but he didn't. Instead, he just dismissed it and expected me to adjust to my new school. You gotta understand that a lot of men and fathers are STUBBORN, not logical at all.

I wouldn't have made that mistake. Do you see me putting my son into a school with mean nasty kids that would bully and tease him? No. Right now my son is in a school with nice kids and teachers and a POSITIVE friendly relaxed environment. So no way did I make that same mistake. I'm NOT STUPID. DUH!

YOU ARE SUCH A f***ing IDIOT MARCOS! I SWEAR!

Why would my dad say my mom is racially inferior, when they are the same race? My mom is not Filipino either. That is a STUPID IMBECILIC comparison Marcos! Golly you are DUMB!!!!!!!!!!! GEEZ!!!!!!!!!! You make the worst analogies and comparisons that aren't valid.

Geez, you must be a white brute or something. LOL. Even the Dutch people of the Renaissance and Middle Ages were probably brighter than you are. LOL Even the savage Europeans who fought in the Crusades War were probably smarter than you. LOL

Sure lots of people CLAIM to be bullied. But did you read what I said? I wasn't just "bullied". I was bullied and spat upon and mocked and ridiculed EVERYDAY by 30+ kids for SEVEN YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! EVERYDAY MAN!!!!!!!!!!! When most people say they were bullied, they don't mean that. They just mean they were bullied here and there by a few people. Not everyday!

I ought to sue my school too. They allowed all this to happen and did nothing about it.

At least your grandfather, Marcos, didn't have 30 kids bullying him everyday for 7 years. Nor was he lonely and socially isolated with no friends. Was his self-esteem shot to hell? No he got tough. I could not, because my self-esteem was destroyed and atomized.

But the thing is, all this could have been prevented if I had remained where I was happy in Palo Alto. But murphy's law seems to work through my parents when they make the worst decisions you can imagine. Clumsy bad decisions. When my parents realized their mistake, they did not move me back either. Instead, they prolonged the mistake for life. Bad decision. Very bad. But you know how some parents are, they are very stubborn and never listen.

Why did God allow all this Marcos? Can you ask him? If there's a God, why would he allow such a big mistake like this? One that had lifelong disastrous consequences?

Anyway Marcos, I deserve sympathy, not beratement from you. I suffered A LOT more than you can imagine Marcos. A MILLION TIMES MORE THAN YOU CAN IMAGINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You should count yourself lucky that you didn't suffer what I did.

Even if you were bullied either, I am not you or your grandfather. Not everyone can take it and be stronger after it. Everyone reacts differently. Some people are more sensitive than others. God's mistake was in allowing me to be bullied when he knew that it would make me weaker, not stronger. Maybe God realizes this and that's why he's helping me out in other areas of life now, to make up for the injustice I suffered.

Maybe I was a weak kid. Not like you and your grandfather. So what? I'm different than you. I cannot respond the same way you did. Plus you know how Taiwanese are, they are weak. That's why Taiwan has never won any wars. They don't know how to fight. They've never won any international kung fu tournaments either.

At least my dad can at least ACKNOWLEDGE and APOLOGIZE for that huge mistake. But he doesn't. He just ignores and doesn't want to think about it. He doesn't realize the gravity of the mistake. If I were him, I would feel guilt and regret too. Why shouldn't someone feel guilt for a big mistake? It's normal to.

My son will never suffer what I did, because he doesn't get bullied and doesn't go to a school with mean kids. Filipinos don't bully like Americans do. You know that. If he suffers, it will be a totally different kind of pain. So NO, I am not repeating my dad's mistakes. You're not making sense Marcos. You are making invalid comparisons again. My son is not being bullied so my problems and trauma are not affecting him.

Why do you keep saying I'm not there for my kid? I spend time with him. But I have my own goals too, such as finding a Chinese wife and being happier abroad. We all know I can't live in the Philippines forever. Many guys cannot, understandably. We discussed this many times in the past.

Even if my son feels pain at me not always being there, still it's nothing compared to what I went through. So why are you talking about me repeating my dad's mistakes? That's not even an issue here. I am not putting my son in a school where he's being bullied. No way. I'm not that stupid or illogical. So there is no possibility of my trauma being repeated here. Your comparison again is invalid and illogical.

I'm sorry for cussing at you. But you are touching an emotional nerve with me too.

Btw, sure we all make mistakes Marcos. But let me ask you this: Has your dad ever made a HUGE TITANIC SIZED MISTAKE? One that f***ed YOU UP FOR LIFE?! If not, then you don't know what I mean and you cannot relate to what I'm talking about.

Even God and Jesus cannot understand my suffering. Jesus only suffered on the cross for ONE DAY! But I suffered everyday for 7 years! EVERYDAY FOR SEVEN YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So why is everyone in church always talking about Jesus' suffering when he only suffered one day??????? My suffering was far worse. Jesus was not even bullied as a kid. So I doubt even God understands how much damage I suffered.
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Re: Warning: The True Consequences of Having Children! Must

Postby chanta76 » Fri Aug 12, 2016 7:00 pm

marcos,

Let's give the benefit a doubt to Winston. As we know Winston would have to relocate back to the Philippines to be with his son and at the same time have a working relationship with the son mother. I don't know the details. It's possible that Winston tried but found the son mother and extended family unbearable and toxic for him. On top of that maybe living in the Philippines was getting to him too. So it's not an easy decision . It's like Winston was kind of pushed out but also Winston probably wanted out too because of these reason.

Why not just sponsor his son to USA or Taiwan or somewhere? Sponsorship is not easy plus that would mean separating his son from his mother. So that in itself is bad. So that means the only solution is for Winston to go back to the Philippines but as I wrote there probably was reason why Winston felt like he had to leave.

Why not send money consistently? Again I don't know the details but I'm guessing that it's possible the money he sends to his son might be use for something else. You have cases here in the USA where a man will get divorce and the wife takes sole custody of the kids and just want to collect alimony and child support. The problem is the ex-wife is mad still or spiteful to deny visitation right. And whose to say if the wife is spending the child support money on the actual child. So maybe that's probably a reason why Winston does not send money all the time. It's trust issue.

In Winston case he shouldn't have had kids but it's too late now. What Winston should do is think what is best for his son. Separating the son from the mother can be traumatic in itself . Does son need a father ? Yes. But if the environment is too toxic for the father and mother to be together it's better to be separate.

Winston could set some money aside as a trust fund for his son to use when he is older or try sponsorship once his son is older . Winston can also send money directly to schools or education material so he would have some control in how the money is spent. Honestly I don;t know if Winston is doing any of these.
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Re: Warning: The True Consequences of Having Children! Must

Postby chanta76 » Fri Aug 12, 2016 7:09 pm

Winston,

My dad is somewhat like your dad. I was born in South Korea but immigrated to USA when I was a baby. Since I was a baby to pretty much adulthood I got picked on social isolated. I was suicide at one point. I confronted my dad about this. He couldn't understand one bit. He kept saying speak Korean . If I grew up in Korea I could speak to him in Korean but I didn't. I could go on. I got so mad I hit my dad and my mom had to step in to stop it. I was so mad I wanted to beat my father because he never thought that he made a mistake. He couldn't empathize why I have insecurity and demons.

So in someways I get it. I think with Asian fathers they are backwards and just too cold. My advice is you have to move on. You don't want to repeat the same mistake. I wrote a separate a thread of why you might not be in your son life. My advice is you don't want to be like you dad but in someways maybe you are to your son. I know this sound heavy. and there are no easy answer.

Marcos,

We all have problems but our problems is our unique demons. My dad said the same thing that everyone has problems as if my problems wasn't important for him to understand or take the time to LISTEN to what I have to say. That's what got me mad.
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Re: Warning: The True Consequences of Having Children! Must

Postby Winston » Fri Aug 12, 2016 7:21 pm

Chanta76,
I think you have things backward. I don't dislike the Philippines. I love it there. The vibe is great, warm and soothing. I like Angeles City too. It's a fun adult Disneyland. I have a lot of friends and fun memories there. It's just that I can only stand it a few months at a time. Not long term constantly. I can go there and spend time with my son. Sure. But I'm not a traditional father type. I'm too adventurous and young at heart for that.

The Philippines is not toxic at all. Where do you get that? The USA and Taiwan are toxic and have lots of negative energy. We all know that. So why do you have things backward? lol. Philippines has a warm soothing vibe for your soul. Didn't you know that?

I don't have any problems getting along with Dianne, my son's mother. Where do you get that? We get along great. Have you seen the TV series "The X Files"? Well I get along with Dianne as well as Mulder and Scully get along. If you see the show, you'll see that Mulder and Scully don't have much passion together, but they have a strong familiarity and bond with each other, and trust too. When they interact, it's very smooth and comfortable. That's how me and Dianne are too.

Yeah I know what you mean about traditional Asian parents. They tend to be narrow, stubborn and don't listen.

But still, I deeply resent being moved heaven to hell in 1981. That was my main beef. If it didn't happen, I would have had a happy normal childhood, become a well adjusted adult, and this site wouldn't exist probably. And that means we wouldn't even be having this conversation now. lol
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Re: Warning: The True Consequences of Having Children! Must

Postby Winston » Fri Aug 12, 2016 7:51 pm

MarcosZeitola and Yick,

You two said that my dad's letters seem very wise and understanding. Yes they are. But my dad also makes a lot of bizarre mistakes that are inexplicable as well, that defy any explanation, which I think no one else makes. I don't know why. I think he lives in an upside down world where everything he does is the opposite of what I do. Some people are like that, it seems that they are on an opposite polarity to you, so that every little thing they do is the exact opposite of what you do. It's frustrating and can be like oil and water. Here are some examples of his mistakes that defy explanation. I challenge you to try to explain them logically. lol

1. When I was 8 or 9, I had a nose bleed. For hours, my dad tried to stop my nose bleed by squeezing the TOP part of my nostrils, I mean the part that rests between the eyes. That didn't work. My nose kept bleeding for hours. Eventually I was rushed to the emergency room at the hospital. There, the doctors placed big cottons in my nostrils which soaked with blood. It seemed like a major emergency.

However, later on, I found out from the kids at my school that the way to stop a nosebleed is to hold the nose closed at the BOTTOM entrance of it, right above your lips, NOT at the top of it! From then on, every time I had a nosebleed, I was able to stop it by holding my nose at the bottom, which would stop the nosebleed within minutes.

So how is it that the kids at my school knew this but my dad and mom didn't?! Have my parents never had a nosebleed before? If so why didn't they know the proper way to stop one? Are Taiwanese really that stupid that they don't know how to stop a nosebleed? What logic is there in trying to stop a nosebleed by squeezing the upper part of your nose? Totally nonsensical.

2. One time in the 1990's, we had a flight from Oakland, CA to Las Vegas, NV. But my dad took us to the wrong airport. We went to the one in San Jose, CA instead. I've never heard of anyone driving to the wrong airport before. It was an odd and clumsy mistake. How come other people don't make mistakes like that? The SF Bay Area is confusing though, because it has three airports -- one in San Francisco, one in San Jose and one in Oakland.

3. When my dad drives into a parking lot, he seems to miss the easiest parking spaces, including ones close to the entrance of the building. It's like he has a blind spot to them. Very weird. Instead, he always tries to find the hardest places to park that are further away. He does this almost every time. And the thing is that he is UNAWARE that he does this. Even when I point it out to him as he's doing it, he doesn't see it. It's very odd. It's like he lives in a bizarro universe where he does the OPPOSITE of what's logical. Totally inexplicable and unexplainable.

This unnerves me though, because I am very accuracy oriented and perfectionist and hate little mistakes. So when I complain, he gets mad and says that I complain too much and that's why girls dump me. Then I reply that that has NOTHING at all to do with why girls dump me. Then he gets in an angry mood the rest of the evening after that. We've gone through that routine many times. It's like we get on each other's nerves and annoy each other, like oil and water. Some people are like that.

4. When he drives, to avoid a few stoplights on the main road, he takes these side roads and back alleys as a detour, which involves 10 or 20 turns in narrow alleyways and streets. All that twisting and turning through narrow streets makes me feel annoyed and dizzy and claustrophobic too, because I don't like narrow streets. I prefer broad streets. And too many turns make me feel dizzy and sick. But this isn't that unusual though. Many guys drive like this, they'd rather do a side detour involving many turns on narrow backstreets than go through a few stoplights on the main road. I guess it's a guy thing or something, since so many guys do that. But I don't. I'd rather stay on the main road and take the simple direct route. I don't mind a few stoplights at all. They are easy, you just wait for the light to turn green and go. Very simple. I don't know why many guys like to go through complicated detours to avoid them. It's a strange preference.

How about you guys? Do any of your parents make odd mistakes or do strange things that are inexplicable? Or is it only my parents that do that? lol
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Re: Warning: The True Consequences of Having Children! Must

Postby yick » Fri Aug 12, 2016 8:54 pm

Hello Winston,

I come from a working class background and my childhood was crap - it was awful, however - I know that my parents did the best they could - I appreciate that now though they weren't perfect, I wasn't the perfect son either. I was suspended twice from school, I left school with no qualifications and I was on the way to being a bum - but what I knew about my parents was that they tried their best with what they had - even though I was the most miserable and unhappy little boy the world has ever seen (I know this isn't the case now - I know many kids shared my unpleasant experiences).

As a kid - I was bullied as well, I was a non-fighter in a place where it helped to be a fighter, I learned how to beat people up because I was just getting my head knocked off all the time and at school I won more fights than I lost but I was still bullied (if only verbally) because I had no idea how to deal with arseholes - most kids don't - this is why in every school in every city in every country in this world - there are kids being bullied - even as you are reading this now, some kid is being bulled - hundreds of millions of people have bullied at school. That is how common it is - because dealing with arseholes is something most people learn - they have to learn it, you wouldn't get bullied now - you would know how to deal with someone if they were being a twat.

However - that is not to extinguish your anguish of what happened as a child - it's real like my anguish was real to me.

Your father tried his best, he was an immigrant from Taiwan who made his way in a foreign country - and America, the UK, Australia are the hardest places for a foreigner to make it - especially a non-white one whose first language isn't English - he did his best by you - you had girlfriends, you went to university - you went to a good one and got a degree - that particular opportunity was down to your father having the funds to fund that - not everyone has that opportunity - especially in America.

You have to make peace with the past, as much as it all hurts - you have to forgive yourself and the people around you because you have to move on with this journey until it is time to go, and that time isn't too far away - sixty or so years - the blink of an eye in the life of the universe.

I know your inner voice never gives you a day off from the past, I understand you have to re-live humiliations from the past in your consciousness - we all have that bag of shit in our brain and it drives a lot of people to taking their own lives because they cannot handle the daily recap of their earlier humiliations. But you have to find a way to let it go and to forgive everyone who was involved in what you thought was wrongs done towards you. That is the only way to get some semblance of inner peace - a working inner peace where when those moments come - you are not getting internally destroyed by rage or guilt.

And before you accuse your father - do you think he could write you a letter on how you let him down as a son? He probably could and he could probably write a very eloquent letter which would be hard to refute - but I am sure he loves you far too much to do something like that. Think about that Winston...
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Re: Warning: The True Consequences of Having Children! Must

Postby gnosis » Fri Aug 12, 2016 9:18 pm

Winston,

What was your relationship like with your mother? So far, you've focused on your father.
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Re: Warning: The True Consequences of Having Children! Must

Postby chanta76 » Fri Aug 12, 2016 9:24 pm

Winston,

I stand corrected than. It's not too much external factors that may give up fatherhood. I'm starting to understand Marcos view point and Yick. You just don't want to deal with the responsibility of being a father. If that is the case NEVER get MARRIED. Being married means being responsible. I thought that there was external factors that contributed to you not wanting to be a father.

Sigh....it's your life but ever action has a consequence. You reap what you sow. I had to learn that the hard way. I guess you want to live that James Bond life Style with out any penalties but there is no such thing. Everything has a consequence like it or not.
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Re: Warning: The True Consequences of Having Children! Must

Postby Winston » Fri Aug 12, 2016 9:59 pm

gnosis wrote:Winston,

What was your relationship like with your mother? So far, you've focused on your father.


There's not much to say. She doesn't talk much. She just cooks and tells me to go to bed if I stay up too late. lol

Ask Rock. He's met my parents. My mom is kind of in her own world. She doesn't say much. She doesn't say "I love you" or hug me either. Taiwanese aren't like that. They repress their emotions to the point of being emotionless and reptilian. lol
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Re: Warning: The True Consequences of Having Children! Must

Postby Winston » Fri Aug 12, 2016 10:00 pm

chanta76 wrote:Winston,

I stand corrected than. It's not too much external factors that may give up fatherhood. I'm starting to understand Marcos view point and Yick. You just don't want to deal with the responsibility of being a father. If that is the case NEVER get MARRIED. Being married means being responsible. I thought that there was external factors that contributed to you not wanting to be a father.

Sigh....it's your life but ever action has a consequence. You reap what you sow. I had to learn that the hard way. I guess you want to live that James Bond life Style with out any penalties but there is no such thing. Everything has a consequence like it or not.


I never said I'm trying to live a James Bond lifestyle. Maybe Rock is. But I never said that. I'm looking for a Chinese wife remember? I'm trying to settle down too.
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Re: Warning: The True Consequences of Having Children! Must

Postby Winston » Fri Aug 12, 2016 10:43 pm

Ethan_sg's response to my childhood bullying:

Ethan_sg wrote:"Wow I didn't realize how bad your childhood was @Winston . Why did they pick on you? Was it because you were Asian or was it because you were socially awkward?

One thing great about China is that the culture is too inclusive and harmonious to tolerate any bullying in school. Classmates tend to be more harmonious and united and you don't generally see people being ostracized.

Don't you think that would be a far healthier environment for a kid to grow up in rather than the shit kids have to go through in the US all the way till high school? Even in Singapore you do see bullying and cliquishness because of the western influence.

People who say the Chinese education system sucks really need to think about 1. The social environment of growing up in the US especially as a minority male and the kinda bullying, politics and cliquishness your child would have to contend with. 2. As @Monkro had astutely pointed out many times , US education is highly overrated and not all that great either. Asians tend to have this romanticized and idealized view of American education as if it would make them all critical thinkers and enlighten them all. In actuality , it merely 'enlightens' them to liberal and feminist propaganda, plus if they go to the US for education at a young age they will be at great risk of emotional and psychological torture if they don't fit in, and this abuse may have lifelong consequences on them and their self esteem.

There's nothing useful that I learned in American university that I couldn't have learned in Asian universities. This romanticized view of a western education needs to be destroyed. It's pure marketing and a myth stemming from a deplorable Anglophile superiority complex.

In a socially inclusive environment like China, I feel like I can simply relax and be myself to fit in to a group. In a socially exclusive environment like Singapore or the US, when I'm in a group I feel like I constantly have to prove myself and force myself to create a persona that's not really me in order to fit in. You have to act fake and phony and say the right things in order to be accepted. You constantly feel like you have to prove yourself. Conversation can feel more like a competition than communication. In China I feel like I can fit in by default just by relaxing and being myself. I don't have to prove anything.

Ironically individualistic cultures do not enable individuals to be themselves. In fact the opposite is true."
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