How many people on here have standards? Or self respect?

[Adama]

The only issue I have with prostitution is that it enriches women. It elevates them further above men, especially in western societies. Although some probably spend all their money on nonsense, there are many who retire early on the money from men. It is also outrageously expensive, and at $300 per session, I don't see how a man's soul can be satisfied with that infrequency due to the cost.

But it seems for the men who have not visited prostitutes that it is a matter of pride and ego for them. They can brag about how they've never descended so low. Bragging about how they're above the use of prostitutes, which is also shaming those who have, indirectly. I don't shame men for this.

The problem is that it costs a ton of money, and if part of the complaint about marriage is that it costs men a lot of money, then it makes no sense to visit prostitutes, especially in feminist countries where the women are already empowered and where the divorce outcomes are skewed in women's favor. You'd think they'd want to keep all their money to themselves, so as not to enrich the enemy and so as to not give them the easy life. Men work hard for their money. While women just have to lay on their backs for a few minutes. That doesn't seem fair to me, especially when those same men say they refuse marriage because of the prospect of losing money (when maybe they could marry a woman who has enough of her own money, and who isn't a psycho).

Guaranteed most western prostitutes are feminists and hate men, only looking to scam them and cheat them out of the time they've paid for.

[flowerthief00]

Maybe you are old and have low testosterone like me, or maybe you can masturbate without shame like me. For men with high testosterone, who can't get fulfillment from masturbation, it doesn't matter if the woman enjoys sex or not. Sich men are pressured by their bodies to seek sexual relief. Also many prostitutes do enjoy the sex, if the client is nice-behaving, same as many other service professionals enjoy their work, at least with nice customers. Probably the prostitute would prefer other men, just as probably a lawyer would prefer his best friends as clients, but preferring other clients as the ideal doesn't necessarily imply hating actual clients.

Sounds like you've been infected with feminist anti-prostitution shaming propaganda.

Lol I'm neither feminist nor anti-prostitution nor pro-shaming. Unless in the case of the latter we're talking about a behavior that causes substantial harm to others against their consent, which I don't consider prostitution to be. I've gone with a friend to see hookers and waited outside patiently while he did his thing. It makes no sense to me and I thought he was wasting his money, but I never shamed him for that.

Your love of chess is evidently weak if you can talk like this, though chess is a bad example since their are computer programs now you can play against (analogous to masturbating). If no such programs existed, and I had a strong love of chess and couldn't find free partners, I would absolutely pay for a partner.

It's not so much that my love of chess is weak as that it isn't so strong to the point of obliterating the many other recreational activities I love from which I opportunistically pick what is easily available and what is cheap. There have been times in my life when I DID have numerous chess buddies around; we played every day that we could.

I have a hard time believing you actually would pay for chess. I've never heard of anyone paying for chess.
Personally, I was never crazy about computer programs. A human opponent makes mistakes a computer won't make and is capable of moments of brilliance and lateral thinking a computer isn't, which results in interesting games, not to mention the social enjoyment of being around real people. Yet, even not enjoying computer programs I still wouldn't pay for chess.

In other words, I agree with your analogy that computer programs can be compared to masturbation. So if computer programs can be compared to masturbation, doesn't that support the chess analogy? In both cases we have a cheap, solo alternative to the better thing. If we change your sentence to "If masturbation didn't exist and I had a strong love of orgasm and couldn't find partners, I would absolutely pay for a partner." the implication would be that you would masturbate if masturbation did exist.

Compare conversation with a friend versus with paid language teachers. I paid a teacher last summer for Russian lessons. Unlike a friend, she always showed up at the exact appointed time and stayed for exactly one hour. I tried to be pleasant, we talked as if we were friends, and I would imagine she enjoyed the conversation as much as me (which is not saying much since I tended to find the conversation tedious, though necessary for my progress, which is why I arranged for these lessons). Mutually beneficial arrangement in other words.

Similarly for prostitution. Most johns would prefer another woman, one who loved them and had sex for free, and most prostitutes would prefer to have sex with and be supported by a rich and handsome young husband, but we can't always get everything we want in life.

But now you've introduced an element that wasn't in my analogy -- the value you gain from being tutored by a professional.
Now, prostitutes are professionals of a sort, and if we were talking about the merit of using their services in that way, that is as the primary reason for seeing a hooker being that she is better at what she does than a vanilla womsn, it would be one thing. However, I do not think we are. You (and others here) have used phrases such as "seeking sexual relief", not "seeking sexual professionalism". Any relief will do.

Likewise with chess I don't require that my opponent be any kind of professional. If he is then it's a plus and I will gain extra value from our matches, but this is not required. I really don't care too much about skill levels as long as we are both having fun. I might have something to be taught, or I might have something to teach. Just like with sex

Recreation vs. sexual relief is where we disagree, huh.
Sexual relief is ridiculously easy to obtain. All it requires is 5 minutes of alone time and a working internet connection (or even just a good imagination).

[flowerthief00]

Kradmelder I basically agree. If you want to continue with a woman you pay the bill sooner or later.

Adama I also agree with. Do we really need to be throwing so much money at whores.

[Jeremy]

I don't do it that often - maybe once every few months. It does kind of feel like a waste of money, but sometimes the flesh hunger just overwhelms me. Men go crazy if they go too long without sex.

But other than this rare indulgence, I'm an extremely cheap bastard. I'm trying to save up enough so that I can retire to SEA before 40. Then I can enjoy all the sex I want, swim with the sea turtles, and just enjoy life instead of rotting in an office all day.

[Shemp]

For those of you bitching about the price of hookers, maybe you should try working as a gigolo. What you will discover is the same thing female prostitutes discover when they first get into the business: getting paying customers is not easy, there's an incredible flake rate and lots of cheapskates in this world trying to get something for nothing, many customers are plain old jerks, there's expenses involved such as lawyers in case of police busts, once you get a criminal record other lines of work are closed, so high risk profession with limited number of working years, etc. Most hookets, in America at least, are sitting around at this very moment waiting for the phone to ring and trying to think of what else they can do for a living of it doesn't ring soon.

I once had a GF who worked part-time as a high end escort (she was previously a dominatrix when working as an ex-pat in Japan, where the men love to get beaten with a whip by tall slavic-looking blondes in high heels, which is what she was, but she refused to have sex with these men). I was a non-paying bf while we were together, so, unlike paying customers, I had to patiently listen to her rants and put up with her bitching, of which there was a lot. Based on what this gf told me, which might be bs since she had little regard for objective truth, the money is sometimes great but there are also long dry spells, so that the bottom line is she made much more as a financial auditor (her day job when I was with her and when she worked in Japan) and real-estate agent (aka Realt-whore®), which she had worked at previously, than escorting. According to her, she mainly did the escorting so she could get a better quality of sex partner than the guys in nightclubs, most of whom were penniless cheapskates according to her. I was flush with money when I was with her, and she did have champagne tastes for restaurants, etc and expected the man to pay. She was also a nymphomaniac and probably also did the escorting to get more quantity as well as quality of sex. I hadnt yet begun my study of sexual kung fu when I met her, unfortunately, since that skill would have been very useful for an insatiable "tiger woman" like her.

Dont be misled by the Hollywood Pretty Woman stories, like everything from Hollywood, its a lie.

[Adama]

For those of you bitching about the price of hookers, maybe you should try working as a gigolo. What you will discover is the same thing female prostitutes discover when they first get into the business: getting paying customers is not easy, there's an incredible flake rate and lots of cheapskates in this world trying to get something for nothing, many customers are plain old jerks, there's expenses involved such as lawyers in case of police busts, once you get a criminal record other lines of work are closed, so high risk profession with limited number of working years, etc. Most hookets, in America at least, are sitting around at this very moment waiting for the phone to ring and trying to think of what else they can do for a living of it doesn't ring soon.

I once had a GF who worked part-time as a high end escort (she was previously a dominatrix when working as an ex-pat in Japan, where the men love to get beaten with a whip by tall slavic-looking blondes in high heels, which is what she was, but she refused to have sex with these men). I was a non-paying bf while we were together, so, unlike paying customers, I had to patiently listen to her rants and put up with her bitching, of which there was a lot. Based on what this gf told me, which might be bs since she had little regard for objective truth, the money is sometimes great but there are also long dry spells, so that the bottom line is she made much more as a financial auditor (her day job when I was with her and when she worked in Japan) and real-estate agent (aka Realt-whore®), which she had worked at previously, than escorting. According to her, she mainly did the escorting so she could get a better quality of sex partner than the guys in nightclubs, most of whom were penniless cheapskates according to her. I was flush with money when I was with her, and she did have champagne tastes for restaurants, etc and expected the man to pay. She was also a nymphomaniac and probably also did the escorting to get more quantity as well as quality of sex. I hadnt yet begun my study of sexual kung fu when I met her, unfortunately, since that skill would have been very useful for an insatiable "tiger woman" like her.

Dont be misled by the Hollywood Pretty Woman stories, like everything from Hollywood, its a lie.

No surprise there that she is a pathological liar. Most reprobates (the rejected evil doers) are pathological liars and deceivers. Still, you know and admit she's a pathological liar, yet you trust her. Of course everyone is a cheapskate, to a filthy gold digging whore. All gold diggers want is more money, and there is never enough. Of course she isn't going to tell you that the money is wonderful. They know enough not to brag about their money. Of course the price you pay for you getting it for free is putting up with the evil words that come out of her mouth about others, in the form of "bitching", which may or may not include slander (verbal and spiritual murder).

Oh wait, you had to wine her and dine her! Apparently you failed to guess that perhaps a person might plead poverty to someone to get them to pay their bills. If a man knew his woman had money, he might be inclined to insist that she pay for half!

Basically what you are saying is that she reduced her body to be used as a toilet seat to make close to minimum wage. Somehow you believe there is no money in prostitution, and that because the Johns flake, these women are just as broke as those working normal jobs.



Now I see how you guys have fallen into many women's evil traps. Completely blind to what's going on.

Wait. Yup, you really do believe that stuff.

[Adama]

For those of you bitching about the price of hookers, maybe you should try working as a gigolo. What you will discover is the same thing female prostitutes discover when they first get into the business: getting paying customers is not easy,

Where are you even getting this gigiglo idea from? Getting paying female partners as a male prostitute might prove nearly impossible. So from the start, your analogy is flawed. Besides that, if by some feat a man could get paying female customers, it would seem he would be better off simply being a kept man and not a prostitute.

People enter prostitution because they want to make oodles and gobs of money. Or because they're addicted to heroin and crack and the streetlife.

[Shemp]

Smart and disciplined women who want to get money from men marry them, only the stupid and undisciplined ones greedily take the cash up front as prostitutes/ strippers/sugar babies.

There are at most 100 women in the USA who have managed to save up $1 million from prostitution, though I wouldn't be surprised of the actual number is zero, such is the spendthrift nature of every whore/escort/stripper I've ever known. The money flies out as fast as it flies in and they are always broke. It is way over these girls heads to manufacture credit card and bill collector statements, which youll always find in their trash if you visit their homes. By contrast, there are at least a million women who have become millionaires by marrying men who later became rich.

[Kradmelder]

Smart and disciplined women who want to get money from men marry them, only the stupid and undisciplined ones greedily take the cash up front as prostitutes/ strippers/sugar babies.

There are at most 100 women in the USA who have managed to save up $1 million from prostitution, though I wouldn't be surprised of the actual number is zero, such is the spendthrift nature of every whore/escort/stripper I've ever known. The money flies out as fast as it flies in and they are always broke. It is way over these girls heads to manufacture credit card and bill collector statements, which youll always find in their trash if you visit their homes. By contrast, there are at least a million women who have become millionaires by marrying men who later became rich.

Women who know how to land well off men, and know how to lever that money out of a man in divorce earn far more per pomp than any whore. On top of that they had all their living expenses paid and all their costs paid while they were putting out apparently for free. But there is no free where women are concerned. The only equitable way is marry a woman of your class and wealth and split expenses so courts don't use income difference to force you to support them as they are accustomed to.

In SA if she never worked or there was a huge income difference you are going to get farked over. If she earns about what you did then you won't have to provide for her, just your share of the kids.

[Adama]

Smart and disciplined women who want to get money from men marry them, only the stupid and undisciplined ones greedily take the cash up front as prostitutes/ strippers/sugar babies.

There are at most 100 women in the USA who have managed to save up $1 million from prostitution, though I wouldn't be surprised of the actual number is zero, such is the spendthrift nature of every whore/escort/stripper I've ever known. The money flies out as fast as it flies in and they are always broke. It is way over these girls heads to manufacture credit card and bill collector statements, which youll always find in their trash if you visit their homes. By contrast, there are at least a million women who have become millionaires by marrying men who later became rich.

OK fine. Let's say there are (by your estimation???) only 100 women who are wealthy because of their ability to save money. Even if they don't have a six digit bank account, it is still giving gold digging whores access to a millionaire lifestyle, for as long as it lasts. It is still enriching women, who are the enemy of a significant portion of the men using them, ironically.

I remember on another forum there was a guy who knew lots of South American prostitutes, his name was BillyT. He went on about how some of those prostitutes went to work in Spain, and came back home to retire off their savings. I think it is a little unrealistic to think that women simply can't save money. There are stereotypes, but not everyone conforms to them, or they're so good at lying and you're so willfully blind that you don't see it, which is much more likely.

[droid]

I remember on another forum there was a guy who knew lots of South American prostitutes, his name was BillyT. He went on about how some of those prostitutes went to work in Spain, and came back home to retire off their savings. I think it is a little unrealistic to think that women simply can't save money. There are stereotypes, but not everyone conforms to them, or they're so good at lying and you're so willfully blind that you don't see it, which is much more likely.

Lol those were probably colombian girls in madrid, I saw them but never took one downstairs though. They do make x5-10 the money in spain, so I figure they can go back with quite a stash if they're not stupid, but they won't be millionaires by any stretch.

Retiredfrank's example is a bit extreme in saying they're always broke, but he is right in that in general most actually struggle to pull customers. I've been to quite a few of these places in the past, and from my observations most girls are lucky if they pull 1 or 2 chumps a night, not the 4-6 most people assume. But yeah they do like to buy their trinkets, phones and plastic surgery; they're hardly the 'trafficking' victims the mainstream media tries to present.

But it seems for the men who have not visited prostitutes that it is a matter of pride and ego for them. They can brag about how they've never descended so low. Bragging about how they're above the use of prostitutes, which is also shaming those who have, indirectly. I don't shame men for this.

Some guys seem to care more about men's opinions than women's bodies, I find it odd.