Situation In China

[CannedHam]

Things are quiet at work now w/less business travel so I have a lot more free time in the evenings and during weekends. I decided to learn Chinese, my fourth language, for the hell of it to keep my mind sharp and because it's fun.

I started using the HelloTalk app (basically a social network for language learners) to find some practice partners after learning the basics on my own, and oh man was I shocked .

The shear amount of single Chinese women, mostly aged 25-35, on that site looking for boyfriends was absolutely stunning. And here's the rub. I used to regularly chat with Filipinas or Latinas, and it was clear that the ones going after foreigners were, let's say, not well off. But most of the Chinese woman that have contacted me (20-30 per day, easily) speak good English, have good jobs, usually have their own condo and/or car, and to top it off, are usually very, very attractive, and don't have intentions of leaving China. Not exactly the free-loading, visa-seeking type.

When I ask them "Why not find a nice Chinese guy" they all say one or more of the following: Chinese men are inconsiderate, not attractive, violent, not manly etc., which is fine, but it just seems completely backwards that it's the gorgeous, successful women who have trouble getting married, whereas in the USA it's the complete opposite - the ugly women have trouble getting married.

Anyone have any insights into the situation?

[MrMan]

Do you own the HelloTalk app?

[yick]

Traditionally, Chinese women got married really young, well before the age of 25. These days, Chinese women are focusing on careers instead of getting married early, however, the tradition that women should be married by the age of 25 still stands and no-one wants to marry these beautiful, successful women because they are seen as too old. If you hit 30 and you aren't married, then you are in trouble if you are a woman (and it isn't looking good if you are a man...)

These beautiful, career women who can't find husbands exist BUT don't expect an easy ride from them if you get married, they are going to expect you to measure up to what they consider an equal partner, work hard, contribute to the finances, make her life better - even though she is already somewhat successful.

They are great women for the the right men, basically, successful, career driven men who can make money. But is a case of caveat emptor sometimes it looks too good to be true until it's too late.

[MrMan]

My wife is a hard worker. She came up with an idea for a business in grad school and often did the majority of the work while I was studying.

But she's also diligent about the home, and that has primarily been her work since we got married. I like being married to someone who is focused on keeping a good home and raising the children. She does a lot of other things. I don't know if I would have liked being married to a very career-focused woman. If you choose that route, it makes sense to live in a country where having a maid live in your home is realistic.

It sure is nice not to have to worry about mopping the floor or doing the dishes, or her having to do that sort of thing.

[CannedHam]

Traditionally, Chinese women got married really young, well before the age of 25. These days, Chinese women are focusing on careers instead of getting married early, however, the tradition that women should be married by the age of 25 still stands and no-one wants to marry these beautiful, successful women because they are seen as too old. If you hit 30 and you aren't married, then you are in trouble if you are a woman (and it isn't looking good if you are a man...)

These beautiful, career women who can't find husbands exist BUT don't expect an easy ride from them if you get married, they are going to expect you to measure up to what they consider an equal partner, work hard, contribute to the finances, make her life better - even though she is already somewhat successful.

They are great women for the the right men, basically, successful, career driven men who can make money. But is a case of caveat emptor sometimes it looks too good to be true until it's too late.

Good insights. That's kind of what I was thinking.

In some ways I can almost respect their wishes - they are hard working, take care of themselves, and want a similar man - fair enough. At least they put their money where their mouth is unlike most lazy American female slobs, who offer little to nothing and demand everything (plus more) from their man... I work hard, take care of myself, and would certainly not want to marry an uneducated, broke, and overweight prostitute.

[CannedHam]

Do you own the HelloTalk app?

I don't own it, but I am a user.

My wife is a hard worker. She came up with an idea for a business in grad school and often did the majority of the work while I was studying.

But she's also diligent about the home, and that has primarily been her work since we got married. I like being married to someone who is focused on keeping a good home and raising the children. She does a lot of other things. I don't know if I would have liked being married to a very career-focused woman. If you choose that route, it makes sense to live in a country where having a maid live in your home is realistic.

It sure is nice not to have to worry about mopping the floor or doing the dishes, or her having to do that sort of thing.

Great points. As much as I respect them for working hard, taking good care of themselves, being successful, etc... I think I'd rather be with someone who is a bit more family-focused.

I wasn't planning on using the app for anything other than language learning. My experience has been that HelloTalk is great for Spanish, but if you are a decent-looking male between 25-40 y/o learning Chinese, be prepared to get flooded (and I mean flooded) with messages from lonely single Chinese women.

[chanta76]

Are these modern career driven Chinese women the new feminist in China? I find that in the wealthy Asian countries the Asian girls that seek out western men tend to lean towards being progressive in thinking. It might work out for some guys but it's not as easy as Yick mentioned. I mean there are hard working Chinese men that are educated. I don't think all of these Chinese men are backwards. Either these Chinese women are very picky or too progressive in thinking and have a fantasy.

[yick]

Are these modern career driven Chinese women the new feminist in China? I find that in the wealthy Asian countries the Asian girls that seek out western men tend to lean towards being progressive in thinking. It might work out for some guys but it's not as easy as Yick mentioned.

Where did I say it was easy... point that bit out, I think I was quite clear who should proceed with these type of women...

These beautiful, career women who can't find husbands exist BUT don't expect an easy ride from them if you get married, they are going to expect you to measure up to what they consider an equal partner, work hard, contribute to the finances, make her life better - even though she is already somewhat successful.

They are great women for the the right men, basically, successful, career driven men who can make money.

I mean there are hard working Chinese men that are educated. I don't think all of these Chinese men are backwards. Either these Chinese women are very picky or too progressive in thinking and have a fantasy.

Again, you are reading things that are not there. But let's take this argument to it's most logical conclusion, why can't they date who they want? Why should they choose a Chinese man if that's not what they want?

They have standards as do you, as do I - everyone on this damn site has standards and what they want and don't want in a woman and they are the same. If they are picky and have silly fantasies then they are no different from the average HA'er.

[MattHanson1990]

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[chanta76]

Are these modern career driven Chinese women the new feminist in China? I find that in the wealthy Asian countries the Asian girls that seek out western men tend to lean towards being progressive in thinking. It might work out for some guys but it's not as easy as Yick mentioned.

Where did I say it was easy... point that bit out, I think I was quite clear who should proceed with these type of women...

These beautiful, career women who can't find husbands exist BUT don't expect an easy ride from them if you get married, they are going to expect you to measure up to what they consider an equal partner, work hard, contribute to the finances, make her life better - even though she is already somewhat successful.

They are great women for the the right men, basically, successful, career driven men who can make money.

[chanta76]

I said it won't be easy but maybe for certain type of guy it maybe easy. The deeper question is are these career driven Chinese women new modern day feminist? Maybe I am wrong but here in the west you got plenty of career driven women with type A personality that turned off loads of men but again I can be wrong with the Chinese women.





The OP asked about the situation in China. Since your in China you would have heads up and you answer that traditional Chinese women marry by 25 and by 30 it be too old. I assumed that (I can wrong by the way you wrote it.) that these Chinese women are consider old misses and fair number of Chinese men are turned off by them. (Again I can be wrong here.)

But this reminds me about some Korean women that were also career driven. Some Korean men are turned off by them. These same Korean women either get the brush off by Korean men or bad experience and ended up preferring non-Korean men. I would wager it's not too far for these career driven Chinese women too.

Having standards is OK but hint of realism has to be there. Yes I think many HA here have fantasy overseas and I think it's the same with the women overseas that have fantasy of western guys.

I mean if a guy wants a traditional Chinese women and that his fantasy the career driven Chinese women is not the one. But it's ironic that a career driven Chinese women would want a white guy because the fantasy is in reverse .

[yick]

I never said it was easy - what I said was that it was a good solution for a certain type of man - is it easy for them? Hell no!

It's going to be a challenge for whoever does it. Dating a Chinese woman isn't an easy option in anyway whatsoever, now dating these women is going to be a challenge, they know what they want, they are ambitious, smart and driven, if you want a docile homemaker then these aren't the women you should be targeting - they might be after the fact that he is in the United States, what CH could do is make the same profile but put his country as Zimbabwe or... I don't know... Ireland, see if he gets 30 hits a day, I doubt it. The United States is a big draw for a lot of these women, not necessarily because they want to move there for a green card but because that option is on the table for the future.

The best thing for CH to do is to come to China and invest a year or two here, get to know the culture, get to know the way they do things. I can't see it working just flitting in and out a week or a two at a time meeting some woman, also, these women will want to move fast - that means a serious fiscal investment on CH's part - unless he moves to China full time and courts them from there - that would be more feasible.

The best, most nicest looking women who were interested in me could speak NO English and they worked in shops, cafes, restaurants - one was a bus driver and she was absolutely adorable. These women I suspect would make great wives, mums and homemakers - no-one is saying these high fliers on Hello Talk wouldn't but they are going to expect the man to make up their shortfall if they are consigned to parental duties.

I will wager a lot of the girls with really good English come from the big cities, have a good idea what they want, aren't adverse to moving abroad (despite what they might say about not wanting to leave China...) and would be really demanding in what they want from you (plural) as a partner - some might have been hurt by Chinese guys, some might not want to be beholden to a Chinese mans parents and reject filal piety towards in-laws - knowing that a western mans in-laws would be far less demanding.

What Canned Ham should do is put up the same profile and pics and put his country as Zimbabwe and see what hits he gets, he might get some because I sense he is a devilishly handsome fellow but it won't be anything like what he gets now. And it will put it all in it's proper perspective.

If he wants a sweet, kind, innocent girl who wants to make a nice home (these girls really do exist in China) come to China, invest time outside the major cities, learn Chinese, learn their ways and you'll get that. You won't get it from some near fluent English speaker with a masters degree.

[yick]

I started using the HelloTalk app (basically a social network for language learners) to find some practice partners after learning the basics on my own

Don't get too much information about HelloTalk out there, or else there'll be more thirsty men using it and making it more difficult for decent men.

How defeatist, Matt.

There are millions is Chinese and Korean women use this, some for the actual use of learning English, do you think every gobshite romeo is capable of teaching their dog to sit, never mind educate a Chinese woman in regards improving their English.

You should have more confidence in your abilities and not be frightened of the competition.

That and 'Hello Talk' is no substitute of getting your ass on a plane and coming here.

[CannedHam]

The best, most nicest looking women who were interested in me could speak NO English and they worked in shops, cafes, restaurants - one was a bus driver and she was absolutely adorable. These women I suspect would make great wives, mums and homemakers - no-one is saying these high fliers on Hello Talk wouldn't but they are going to expect the man to make up their shortfall if they are consigned to parental duties.
....
If he wants a sweet, kind, innocent girl who wants to make a nice home (these girls really do exist in China) come to China, invest time outside the major cities, learn Chinese, learn their ways and you'll get that. You won't get it from some near fluent English speaker with a masters degree.

Can't say I disagree with you, but I'm not quite ready to get into the marriage game

I started using the HelloTalk app (basically a social network for language learners) to find some practice partners after learning the basics on my own

Don't get too much information about HelloTalk out there, or else there'll be more thirsty men using it and making it more difficult for decent men.

How defeatist, Matt.

There are millions is Chinese and Korean women use this, some for the actual use of learning English, do you think every gobshite romeo is capable of teaching their dog to sit, never mind educate a Chinese woman in regards improving their English.

You should have more confidence in your abilities and not be frightened of the competition.

That and 'Hello Talk' is no substitute of getting your ass on a plane and coming here.

If you are decent-looking, can start a conversation without "hey gurl show me dem tittie pix", and have a genuine interest in chatting, and can tell a joke or two, there will be no shortage of Chinese women interested in meeting you. The amount of 'losers' and pervs (esp from one particular area of the world haha) on there is astounding.

Also, not every Chinese woman on there is a successful corporate attorney with hoards of cash. I've spoken to a lot of teachers, nurses, office workers, etc.

The women from Latin America I've spoken to are what I would have expected - lots of single moms, most still live with their parents, still "in school studying" at age 25+, etc.

[zboy1]

Those attractive, careerist woman are 'left over' for a reason. A lot of them chose their careers over starting a family, then get rejected by the local men, so they become bitter. They start hating on their own culture and become similar to self-hating Asian American woman in the States.

Trust me, guys. Avoid, at all costs! I know a couple of expat guys who married these kind of woman, only to get divorced out of sheer frustration.

Anytime local men avoid a woman, it's for a good reason, not matter what country you're in.