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Countries that are less free than America.

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Countries that are less free than America.

Postby Mercury » August 25th, 2017, 11:12 pm

In one section of this website, apparently they say that America is less free than all other countries. Not quite. The truth is, there are a few countries that are much less free than America. And they include;

North Korea

Saudi Arabia

China

Cuba

Zimbabwe

Iran

Iraq

Afghanistan

and reportedly Vietnam.
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Re: Countries that are less free than America.

Postby fschmidt » August 26th, 2017, 12:24 am

and Canada
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Re: Countries that are less free than America.

Postby droid » August 26th, 2017, 8:16 am

Mercury wrote:China
and reportedly Vietnam.


Nothing further from the truth.

In the narrow context of "voting" and getting "free" stuff, well yeah.
But for true freedom seekers, you don't have cops in every corner like in the west, nobody bothers you. It's all pretty laid back, many interesting places to visit, virtually no terrorism, and the amount of wealth being generated in these places is unbelievable.
For an expat of course, the cons are the language and not having connections and having to deal with the visa bureaucracy once in a while.
1)Too much of one thing defeats the purpose.
2)Everybody is full of it. What's your hypocrisy?
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Re: Countries that are less free than America.

Postby Yohan » August 26th, 2017, 1:47 pm

Mercury wrote:In one section of this website, apparently they say that America is less free than all other countries. Not quite. The truth is, there are a few countries that are much less free than America...

It depends what is the definition of 'freedom'

it is not the same 'freedom' if you are a local citizen or a foreigner, man, woman or child,
if you have money or if you are poor,

and it is not the same if we talk about personal, civil or economic freedom.

There are some statistics about that done by various institutes and out of about 200 countries USA is somewhere between rank 20 and rank 40.
Last edited by Yohan on August 27th, 2017, 4:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Countries that are less free than America.

Postby Contrarian Expatriate » August 26th, 2017, 2:57 pm

From the standpoint of practical, day to day freedom, the USA is one of the least "free" countries in the world.

The hundreds of thousands of federal laws, coupled with the millions of state and local laws, render each person a walking target of arrest at any time.

Harvey Silverglate determined that each American unknowingly commits 3 felonies a day, all of which could land them in prison for over a year. We see this being played out in Washington, DC with the Special Counsel trying to quantify how many of these "unwitting crimes"Trump and his team committed.

Sure, there is theoretical freedom in the USA, but how free is it if I wear a red Trump cap and I am assaulted or shot by leftist wackos? How free is it if I express my views and I am fired from my job because leftist wackos do not approve of those views? How free is it if I am promoted to manager and envious feminists falsely accuse me of sexism (a crime against the state) to get me demoted or fired? How free is it if I am bound, under the threat of prison, to pay the mother of my children a monthly salary for children that I did not want in the first place?

America simply MARKETS itself as free given its story of origin, but it has devolved into one of the most passively totalitarian countries in the world. The fact that the government does not actively repress people confuses some people, but it does not have to be active in its repression since it encourages private entities to do it instead.

Mass media, social "street" enforcement, political correctness, and lawsuits do all the dirty work for the government.

America is not free but you will never understand that until you live abroad and feel the difference.
Last edited by Contrarian Expatriate on August 26th, 2017, 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Countries that are less free than America.

Postby Moretorque » August 26th, 2017, 4:58 pm

Contra's last post is a bulls eye.

Once America loses the reserve currency coming up the foreign creditors are coming for the land and they have plans for a prison.....
Time to Hide!
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Re: Countries that are less free than America.

Postby Yohan » August 27th, 2017, 6:02 am

Contrarian Expatriate wrote:From the standpoint of practical, day to day freedom, the USA is one of the least "free" countries in the world.
.....
Sure, there is theoretical freedom in the USA, but how free is it if....
.....
America simply MARKETS itself as free given its story of origin, but it has devolved into one of the most passively totalitarian countries in the world.

Very much is true with what you say.
USA is very restrictive.

Of course some have a nice life in USA missing nothing, but many fail, and sometimes you cannot even blame them for it, it's often about good or bad luck.

USA has severe problems, legally seen this entire country is a total mess with confusing laws different from state to state.
It is also well-known for its huge prison population, race discrimination where nobody trust anybody anymore outside of the own race creating ghettos,
a lot of crazy religious bigots are also around, USA has very mistrusting immigration and visa formalities even if you are visiting it only for a short time.

The entire country does not even provide minimum health insurance for all its citizens. - USA is often acting almost like a 3rd world country without any social consideration for others.

Any personal relationship is risky now in USA. Be single as a man makes a lot of sense.

Personally I found labour rights ridiculous, considering that the income of a huge number of people doing simple work in hotels, restaurants and delivery etc. is merely based on tips. This aggressive tipping requests are annoying for any foreign visitor.

USA is one of the few countries I know which follows US-citizens - even those with dual citizenship - around the globe demanding them aggressively to pay taxes directly back to the US-taxman.

For sure USA is not the paradise, but if you compare it to many 3rd class countries it is also not the worst, quite far away from it.

America is not free but you will never understand that until you live abroad and feel the difference.


Many US citizens visiting foreign countries feel the difference, but do not act as you might expect them to act. Many of them are instantly starting to complain about all and everything and telling locals, how much better everything is in USA, and they do this often in a very rude way.
Last edited by Yohan on August 27th, 2017, 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Countries that are less free than America.

Postby Yohan » August 27th, 2017, 6:28 am

Mercury wrote:.....there are a few countries that are much less free than America. And they include

Iran



Iran? Less free than USA? In what sense?

This is a very questionable claim.

Iranians, both men and women, have the right to leave Iran anytime, there are more women in universities than men - a fairly good educated society.
Women need not to cover their face when outdoors.

Of course Iran is a strange country for a Western visitor. It is Islamic, but Shia orientated, life is not so bad as you might expect it because of misguiding articles of the international (=US controlled) media.

No problem for foreigners to travel around in all Iran, no safety concern, and many places are absolutely worth seeing.
Check out places like Isfahan or Tabriz, only to mention 2 of them.

For a foreigner it is also a cheap country to live there, even in Tehran, the capital, and no need to worry about if you are Muslim or not.

For sure ordinary people living in countries like Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Afghanistan (all best friends of USA) are much more restricted.
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Re: Countries that are less free than America.

Postby Wolfeye » August 27th, 2017, 10:45 pm

What's the issue with Cuba? I thought it was like China- no voting & such like that, but otherwise you don't get messed with (except for a bribe, I'd imagine- it's the way it seems to be in Mexico).
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Re: Countries that are less free than America.

Postby Winston » August 28th, 2017, 10:32 am

Depends on how you define freedom. There are social freedoms, political freedoms and freedom from too much government control. The thing is, cost of living is a big inhibitor to freedom. If everything is too expensive, including your living expenses, that's a big block to freedom of course. And America's cost of living is way too high nowadays. The 20th Century saw inflation and price increases skyrocket. That's a very big issue that no politician talks about and can't do anything about. Even Donald Trump doesn't ever dare talk about this. Yet it's the main issue.

Other issues of course are too much political correctness, fake culture, social disconnectedness, lack of morals and family values, etc. Yet these are never discussed either.

All those countries listed by the OP have at least a lower cost of living than America.

What I hate is how America still pretends and acts as though the freedoms it had in the 1700's and early 1800's still exist today, as though no matter what happens, America still has those same freedoms. That's total bullocks of course, but the lie persists.

Every government has laws and exercises some control, and that includes America. But it cannot control everyone individually. You don't have government agents coming to your door and telling you what to do. And no government has enough soldiers to post a guard outside your door and everyone else's door all the time. As long as you turn off the TV and news, you won't hear any government propaganda. Thus, government control isn't the central issue that everyone thinks it is.

China has many social freedoms and benefits though, that America does not. Has the OP read my article listing 36 freedoms, benefits and advantages in China?

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=33192
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Re: Countries that are less free than America.

Postby dragonsmack68 » August 29th, 2017, 11:13 pm

Yohan wrote:
Mercury wrote:.....there are a few countries that are much less free than America. And they include

Iran



Iran? Less free than USA? In what sense?

This is a very questionable claim.


I truly hope you are kidding by saying it is a questionable claim. Anyway, I guess we should start with "what is freedom?". By definition freedom is:

free·dom
ˈfrēdəm/Submit
noun
the power or right to act, speak, or think as one wants without hindrance or restraint.


Now lets see how free Iranians are:

- Women who speak out about equality are thrown in jail.
- Christians or any other religion who speak out against Islam are either jailed or executed (not sure which is the better option)
- Those who oppose the government, well same thing as above
- Freedom of the press, well..ha...good luck with that

I mean the list goes on and on and on.....

I am not a fan of the United States, but come on, lets be realistic.
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Re: Countries that are less free than America.

Postby Wolfeye » August 30th, 2017, 1:03 am

I don't know what it is, but I usually feel like I'm in enemy territory when I'm America. I didn't feel that way in Hungary or most of the other places I went. Even though people are noticeably less iced-up than before (I call it "The Donald Trump Effect"), it still doesn't feel comfortable. You people know what I mean? It almost feels like I'm narrowly slipping through living here.

Notice: For all the talk of freedom & independence, there isn't much room for personal decision-making. It's very common that someone will try to impose their own decisions on other people, particularly if those people they impose things on are doing something that they wouldn't do if they were in the same situation. So a person will try to steer their own situation how it suits them, but other people will try to steer it the way THEY would want it to go- almost like they're counterfeiting support to bolster their ability to pick & run their own course of action. But they're ALREADY USING PERSONAL INITIATIVE to do that in the first place!

So, not being free from other people's ATTEMPTS to supplant you is a major & subtle situation where you're not free in the US. Frequently the law will back these things up, too. There's a lot of that coming from a governmental direction (like with schools making their own choices in how they act toward kids- teaching what they want, setting up whatever policies they want, militarizing their intention with police assistance, etc...).

The other thing is that anyone's shit-stirring can cost you a fortune. So you get pushed-around (in a country that claims one of its traits is freedom), probably get blamed for it or like the "lesser party" of that equation (in a country that claims one of its traits is justice), and them wind up paying through the nose or going into debt for it (in a country that claims one of its traits is having higher opportunity than other countries).
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Re: Countries that are less free than America.

Postby Winston » August 30th, 2017, 1:42 am

Have any of you noticed that most people in America act very insecure? You certainly don't see that in russia. Thats because in America no one likes you for you. So you never really feel accepted for you. You have no true intrinsic value or worth. You gotta try to be something you're not or prove your worth. Thus your self-esteem and confidence are eroded and undermined, making you feel very insecure and fragile. Its very toxic and unhealthy for sure.

Yet America never talks about this and only blames you if you have a problem with this. America isnt free because you are not free to be yourself. Yet America defines a free country as being able to vote in elections in it. What a stupid definition.
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Re: Countries that are less free than America.

Postby Winston » August 30th, 2017, 2:25 am

My Singaporean friend Ethan_sg put it best and spot on when he said:

"In a socially inclusive environment like China, I feel like I can simply relax and be myself to fit in to a group. In a socially exclusive environment like Singapore or the US, when I'm in a group I feel like I constantly have to prove myself and force myself to create a persona that's not really me in order to fit in. You have to act fake and phony and say the right things in order to be accepted. You constantly feel like you have to prove yourself. Conversation can feel more like a competition than communication. In China I feel like I can fit in by default just by relaxing and being myself. I don't have to prove anything. Ironically individualistic cultures do not enable individuals to be themselves. In fact the opposite is true."
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Re: Countries that are less free than America.

Postby Wolfeye » August 31st, 2017, 3:59 am

Winston: That stuff is so true & if you're not the type to do all that "rat race" stuff (or whatever it would be called) they get almost resentful of you. They sometimes talk IN THAT CONVERSATION about liking someone that's a "straight shooter" or something like that & when "confronted" with one, they get shocked & a bit confrontational. It's like they feel like you're doing something uncouth.
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