UK dating coach criticises the modern western dating scene

[mattyman]

This dating coach is making many of the same points that Winston and his articles make about the dating scene and many of the points that are brought-up on this forum, including unrealistic expectations and the illusion of the perfect partner, reliance on dating apps and how it makes people shallow and picky and more importantly, & how it's leading to a climate whereby people don't care about flaking and cancelling and more importantly, men increasingly not approaching women for fear of being seen as creepy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fM_1mO5zSMo

It's hopeful to see that there are dating coaches acknowledging these factors that are driving men to date overseas.

[flowerthief00]

Dating overseas, of course, is not any kind of solution to these things long-term.

1. It's more challenging on multiple levels (women with choice prefer men of their own race/language/culture/nationality)
2. More men overseas means more competition overseas; it's like passing the problem on to the local men
3. Overseas women are rapidly becoming Westernized

Some changes need to happen to Western culture...somehow, some way....

[mattyman]

Still, it's hopeful to see these things being acknowledged, and what the bad practices are. It's now a question of stopping these poisonous dynamics from spreading and infecting the world. Still I'm happy to see a dating coach acknowledge it, and a female one at that.

2. More men overseas means more competition overseas; it's like passing the problem on to the local men

You may have some valid points but here's a catch, it depends what they're after. Guys looking for a no strings attached lay or guys looking to meet the gird next door. What could wreck many other countries where the women are nicer and have lower expectations is the mongering brigade (already talked about in many threads on this site).

RE the point of men not approaching women, I argue that it's the messages that men are fed as to how they should be around women which might also be partly to blame for the 'men are creeps' attitude in western women that is responsible for what's being talked about in addition to the messages from the media women are told about men. I would argue that the emphasis on being utra-masculine and pushy as so much conventional dating advice has been, might have given more leverage to the 'all men are creeps' mentality and here's why;

-those guys who're genuinely after a nice girlfriend tend not to be the best at asking out, showing they like them, moving in for the kiss etc.
-those guys that are assholes are most likely to ask girls out, show them that they like them and move in for the kiss etc.
-The bias in many women's experience of men; if the only guys who've been able to ask her out, move in for the kiss and all that stuff have also been the types of guys who've been douchebags. That biases many women's opinions of guys in general.

The sort of stuff Roosh and others preach only perpetuates the problem. Yes, they might help to approach women, tell them they find her attractive, move in for the kiss, get her to go to bed with them but they've also become the asshole in the process. It's possible to learn to do all those things WITHOUT becoming the douchebag that sees women as objects for your own gratification, and thus tarnish a girls view of all men.

Grandma thinks that guys and the girls are just as bad as each other. She's right. The debate has got to move away from blaming one gender over another.

[flowerthief00]

You may have some valid points but here's a catch, it depends what they're after. Guys looking for a no strings attached lay or guys looking to meet the gird next door. What could wreck many other countries where the women are nicer and have lower expectations is the mongering brigade (already talked about in many threads on this site).

Whether for a serious relationship or a no-strings-attached lay, any increase in the supply of interested males without an accompanying increase in demand means a man's buying power diminishes in the dating market. Therefore dating can be expected to become harder for all men in a place where much of this occurs.

Still I'm happy to see a dating coach acknowledge it, and a female one at that.

Only because she can pretend to be addressing both men and women, I'd wager, haha. I think we all know who needs to hear this message more. (Hint: it isn't the gender which primarily comprises this online forum)

Which gender is more prone to higher expectations?
Which gender flakes more?
Which gender doesn't approach?

But we can't really condemn them for lacking interest any more than they can condemn us for lacking interested in washed-up whale-sized whores. People are gonna be attracted to what they're attracted to.

Here's my take on things. Women are treating men poorly (both before and after the relationship) because they fundamentally lack interest in men.

Most men, that is. The vast majority of us big hairy stinky apes. They do have interest in the top 5% of attractive men (the same 5% that can get away with being assholes if they want to, btw). If you're not one of those, you will be flaked on, you will not be approached, you will not be treated with care.

However, women have always needed men for protection and provision and have historically been willing to pair-bond for that reason. Literally, their survival and the survival of their offspring depended on having a man around, whether they ever felt any attraction to him or not. (thus arranged marriages actually worked)

That role is now filled by The State. No more need for women to pretend to like men.

So although it is nice to hear a female dating coach points out a few things, the roots of these problems go very deep and will not be solved absent some difficult changes to how we do things in the West.

[mattyman]

What she didn't point out is that these problems are worse among anglo-american women.

re

Which gender is more prone to higher expectations?

&

They do have interest in the top 5% of attractive men (the same 5% that can get away with being assholes if they want to, btw).

You're absolutely right, it is largely women that are responsible for a lot of the problems (but you can't say this lest some fat feminist harpy gets triggered). Isn't the problem of high expctations being addressed in the video?

What she also didn't assert is that a lot of the problems are more acute in western countries. Why didn't she assert this? The politically-correct police would detonate.

RE men not approaching women
It's blatently clear from the video that what's responsible for this is the fear of being seen as creepy & fear of harrassment. There's also the fact that so many anglo-women have that 'don't talk to me creep' scowl-faced attitude' that's talked about on this forum and mentioned in Winston's articles (this again is too politically-incorrect to assert).

Another related symptom of dysfunction is the trend of men avoiding meeting-up with female co-workers for fear of being accused of harassment. That it not right.

Still, it's encouraging to see the dysfunctions in the western dating scene being addressed. It's a sign that society is overcoming denial.

[Johnny1975]

She forgot to mention that 99% of the problems are women's fault.

She said that women not approaching men is outdated. Well the reason why things used to work well in the past is because women were worth approaching, and when they rejected, they did it with class. Women don't need to approach men.

Never take female so called dating experts seriously.

[mattyman]

She said that women not approaching men is outdated. Well the reason why things used to work well in the past is because women were worth approaching, and when they rejected, they did it with class. Women don't need to approach men.

Correct, women were worth approaching in the past (and from other countries). Apparently, a common complaint of women these days is men don't strike up conversations (surprise, surprise). Dating coaches should address the factors that make modern western (specifically anglo) women unapproachable.

This one is doing just that. Check out the women only section of the channel, she's teaching women the very opposite behaviours that are complained about. She's teaching women to be what women should be, what they were in the past and what foreign women are. I posted this because it's encouraging to see signs that this stuff is being addressed.

[chanta76]

It's the chadthunder cocks that will do ok in the West or even over seas.

Women do want to get approach and want sex and relationship but it depends on the guy. Maybe in the future women or western women might start approaching .

It's like haves and haves not. Pick up can only go so far. It's like online dating the top 10% of guys can pick girls.


Western women are too spoiled and the way society is nowadays women don't need men so of course they will choose the char thunder cocks.

[Johnny1975]

She said that women not approaching men is outdated. Well the reason why things used to work well in the past is because women were worth approaching, and when they rejected, they did it with class. Women don't need to approach men.

Correct, women were worth approaching in the past (and from other countries). Apparently, a common complaint of women these days is men don't strike up conversations (surprise, surprise). Dating coaches should address the factors that make modern western (specifically anglo) women unapproachable.

This one is doing just that. Check out the women only section of the channel, she's teaching women the very opposite behaviours that are complained about. She's teaching women to be what women should be, what they were in the past and what foreign women are. I posted this because it's encouraging to see signs that this stuff is being addressed.

The first video on the women only playlist is called Make the first move on a guy. I stand by what I said. These female dating experts don't get it.

[mattyman]

I posted this video because it gives hope to see the functionalities in the dating scene finally being addressed by dating coaches.

@ Jonny, you do have a valid point

She said that women not approaching men is outdated. Well the reason why things used to work well in the past is because women were worth approaching, and when they rejected, they did it with class. Women don't need to approach men.

Yes, lots of women in England are pretty bloody unapproachable, and don't seem to perk the curiosity, & don't look that pleasant (well, a croc would be more approachable by comparison). You're quite right there mate. How come in other countries, women don't have the 'bitch shields' as acute as they do, even to just being friendly and sociable & talking to everyone? That was not mentioned and should have been so (it's too politically-incorrect).

Also regarding men not approaching, many men are now are paralyzed with the fear of being seen as creepy or harassing a woman if they try talking to her. This is almost certainly playing a role, but is (still) too unPC to talk about publicly which is why it wasn't mentioned on the video.

What about the settings under which you try to initiate conversation with women? Part of it is that meeting women is largely restricted to the very settings where women's expectations of men are at their most negative; e.g. opportunities to meet women outside of the bar scene and online dating have been restricted (talked about both on this forum and on that youtube channel).

How come it's only socially-acceptable to approach/start conversations with women in bars and clubby-type environments & in online dating sites, but not in other such environments? That's the anti-sociality of western countries being openly addressed, exactly what Winston is addressing.