Amount of money req'd to retire Expat?

[Erasmus]

What is the proper sum of money needed to retire as an Expat with a life expectancy of another 50 years or so? (I hope. blink1.gif ) Let's say the average income per person of the non-western country in question, according to the CIA WORLD FACTBOOK, is somewhere around $10,000 US.


Assume 4% return on investment funds per year, two dependents (myself and one other).

[Winston]

You mean without a pension or social security income? To live another 50 years? That would require a LOT of money or assets. Unless you start a business, but then again, that would require a hefty investment.

If you go to a poor country, then you could do better.

Also depends on your lifestyle. Mine is simple and requires little expenses. But if you need a house, car, maid, etc. and have a family, then you need a lot more.

There are just so many factors involved.

I'd say that $100,000 would last you a long long time though, if you budgeted it well and live in a cheap country.

[James G]

It will primarily depend on the type of lifestyle you want to live. The exact dollar amount for 50 years is hard to determine, will you have children, get married, maybe even get sick and have to return to the west for treatment?. The best plan is to invest your money, start a business or generally figure out how to cover your monthly expenses without spending any or much of your cash reserve.

Here are some examples of how much it cost to live in a couple of different countries:

http://theprofessionaladventurer.com/ca ... ing-index/


~James

[Grunt]

The US dollar has plummeted 40% since Bush took office, and it stands to drop yet further. A problem for my wife and I is our plans for her to attend college in Canada. In order to be approved for a "study permit" in Canada, you must show you have $10,000CAD per person, per year.

My veterans pension is about $36,000USD per year, so thats enough to get us INTO Canada. Plus, the Department of Veterans Affairs will pay my wife an extra $880 a month to attend college. But what about next year? If there is another 40% drop, that puts us in a bad position. Once we fall below $20,000CAD, were no longer eligible.

The only silver lining is, the economy in Canada is incredibly strong. In fact, were the Canadian province of Alberta to break off and become its own nation, it would be the second richest nation in on earth behind Luxembourg. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Alberta

Having a spouse going to college in Canada allows you to apply for an "open work permit". I will be able to work there, and there is a critical labor shortage in Alberta and British Columbia as well. I have seen job listings for pizza delivery that pays $25 an hour.

We will most likely apply for "landed immigrant" status next year and become Canadian citizens in the future. Depending on how badly things go in America, I may renounce my American citizenship. What good is a military pension if its not worth the paper its printed on? Or worse still, if myself or my wife become subject to military draft.

Long story short, dont depend on any cash coming from American sources. One day, that will all be gone. My wife, from the former Soviet Union, told me stories of her family. They saved all their lives, with thousands and thousands of Russian Rubles in the bank...then came the fall, and all that money became useless or dissapeared altogether.

Pick a nation that has a strong economy, learn a trade they need , and walk away from America before it all falls apart. And it wont be long, too. Come hell or high water, my wife and I are gone by September 2008.

[momopi]

What is the proper sum of money needed to retire as an Expat with a life expectancy of another 50 years or so? (I hope. blink1.gif ) Let's say the average income per person of the non-western country in question, according to the CIA WORLD FACTBOOK, is somewhere around $10,000 US.


Assume 4% return on investment funds per year, two dependents (myself and one other).

Hello Tygro,

I'd suggest reading the "early retirement" forum:
http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/

"How much is enough?"
http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/ ... 30818.html


Generally speaking, if you're living off savings alone, the "golden rule" is 4% annual withdraw rate. That is, if you have $1 million invested in mutual funds and such, you should withdraw no more than $40,000 per year. If you have other sources of income (SS, rental property, etc) it'd reduce your withdraw requirements.

It's also not necessary to move overseas for cheaper living. There are many places in the US that are very cheap. Some towns in land-locked states are depopulating and they offer free land to anyone who'd move there:
http://www.kansasfreeland.com/


The median sales price for homes in Detroit for April 2008 was $9,200:
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar ... /805070389

"For example, Detroit had more foreclosure sales in April than regular sales (570 of 932 total), and the median sales price for the month was $9,200, down 68.8 percent from $29,450 last year. Detroit's median price also was a big drag on April's median price for all of Wayne County."


(not that I'd recommend living there, it's just an example)


Living overseas, depending on the destination, may be more expensive than living in cheaper part of US. But if you've already spent the first half of your life in the US, why spend the latter half in the same town? Life is short, it's better to go out and experience the world while you're still financially and physically able.

[Grunt]

You know, after we returned to America in 2005 we took a swing at the whole "move to a small town" concept.

It was perhaps one of the biggest mistakes I have ever made in my life...and Ive made some whoppers.

The only silver lining is, that small town showed me, once and for all, that America is doomed. Totally beyond any hope of redemption. In fact, I look forward to the dissolution of America in its current form.

A town of 3000, deformed buck toothed inbred cross eyed redneck nitwits. All of them. Monumentally ignorant. Unfathomably bitter, and consumed with jealousy. Granted, my bringing in an ultra hot foreign girl didn't help matters.

The "people" (term used loosely) in the town, females primarily, did all they possibly could to make my wife's life as miserable as possible. Constant gossip, backbiting, on a scale that one would not think possible in (supposedly) grown adults.

Saddest of all, was the mind boggling corruption. Chief of police a convicted felon, county sheriff helping Mexican drug gangs set up shop on the local Indian reservation. I suspect they thought I was a federal agent sent in to snoop on them. My bank is a police and fireman's credit union, and it says so right on my credit card. Things kinda kicked off when I went into the local bookstore, handed over my credit card, and the drone behind the counter spouted off "So, your a cop!".

Anyhow, that's just the tip of the iceberg. We still keep the house there, mostly as a base for my business and VA stuff, an official address for my wife's immigration paperwork, and general storage, but when things get sorted out we plan to dump the house and pick one closer to the Canadian border.

Long story short, small towns are having a population drain because they deserve it. When you have 4th and 5th generation Boss Hogg type criminals running a county for 75 odd years, you will eventually reach critical mass.

That critical mass usually results in only two types of people left in the area. Those that are part of the problem, and those that cant escape. Anyone smart enough is long, long gone. Infusing your cash into such an area only enriches the scum and wastes your time.

[fschmidt]

My veterans pension is about $36,000USD per year, so thats enough to get us INTO Canada.

Grunt, why Canada? I am just curious. I have traveled a fair amount, but never to Canada. How is it different from America? With a $36,000 pension, you could live comfortably in a cheaper country and even have some money left over to invest abroad to hedge the falling dollar.

[Grunt]

Well, at face value you can ask "why Canada", and to be honest I said the same thing. I assumed it was cold and boring, like a never-ending Nebraska.

I was wrong. Very wrong. When we drove across Canada we were amazing at how polite the people were, even in Montreal. Then as we drove the Trans-Canada we were secondly amazed at how few police we saw (5, to be exact, from Montreal to Calgary...but here in Montana I see 5+ cops going out to get Chinese food).

Lastly, when we arrived in Calgary we were stunned at how clean it was, how nice the roads were, how nice the cars were, how nicely the people were dressed, how nice the houses were.

As I said before, if Alberta, Canada were to become its own country it would be the second richest nation on earth next to Luxembourg.

I know it sounds abstract to Americans, because its "only Canada" so whats the big deal. But when I grew up in the 80's there was prosperity for all. America had yet to be invaded by 35 million illegal Mexicans. Everyone had a nice house, a nice job, a nice car, a nice girl, and everyone was positive about the future.

I don't see that anywhere in America.

But I do see it in Canada.

[Enishi]

Hey Grunt, thanks for the info on Canada.

Although I've been considering work in either China or Europe, Canada might be the better bet, at least for now.

I do wonder though whether America's economic problems will bleed over into Canada as well...

[Grunt]

Canada will weather the economic storm, at least for the next few years, due to its exports of beef, grain, lumber, and oil.

Many may not know, but Alberta is a large oil exporter, and thats where alot of the money comes from.

If I knew how to upload pictures on this forum, I would.

Those pictures would show you all you need to know, and open your eyes.

[Winston]

Canada will weather the economic storm, at least for the next few years, due to its exports of beef, grain, lumber, and oil.

Many may not know, but Alberta is a large oil exporter, and thats where alot of the money comes from.

If I knew how to upload pictures on this forum, I would.

Those pictures would show you all you need to know, and open your eyes.

To upload pictures here, you have to first upload to a website. If you don't have a site, you can get a free one with geocities. Then you put the complete web link between the tags , like this:

[img]http://%20www.happierabroad.com/%20pictures.jpg[/img] (remove the spaces)

Try that and see if it works.

By the way Grunt, what state and small town do you live in, where the people are that racist and judgmental?

Why don't you try Utah? The people there seem very friendly and polite. Mormons are very nice people.

Winston

[Grunt]

The town we live in is Kalispell, Montana. We used to live in Cut Bank, Montana. Montana is infested with drug dealing police, from local up to county sheriff. Its gotten so bad that the Federal people have taken notice and issued warnings.

The entire state of Montana is a Dukes of Hazzard, Boss Hogg freak show. Its people that have been corrupt for 4 generations running. The only people left are those that were too ignorant or poor to escape.

From what I have been told, people with money began fleeing California, Oregon, and Washington state and started buying land in western Montana. Where the problem comes is where property tax rates skyrocket and locals are displaced.

People with a little bit of money started fleeing the population centers due to any number of factors. Illegal Mexicans, the LA Riots, earthquakes, possible nuclear or biological attack, etc etc. So, as I have been told, a family sells its $800,000 home in Seattle and buys a $500,000 home in Kalispell then lives well on the profit margin.

For areas like Missoula, this assimilation is complete. Thus, the town has clean roads, a nice university, nice people, a good economy, and its overall a fantastic town. But, in places like Kalispell, the battle is still raging.

Before September 11th, 2001 Kalispell was 8000 people. Now, its 2008 and there are 30,000 people in the Flathead valley. The "natives" are putting up a serious fight, but they are doomed. They will eventually be forced east into towns like Cut Bank, then it will start all over again.

In Cut Bank, they have seen a steady stream of people loading up their rusty pickup trucks and setting up shop after they could no longer afford the tax rates in their home towns. Cut Bank is nipping it all in the bud by being spectacularly rude to anyone ignorant enough to show up.

When people are leaving dead animals on your doorstep or carving curse words on the windshield of your car, you know you are dealing with cretins. As I have said before, I have seen Iraqi Beduin desert tribesmen with nothing but a camel and a tent behave with more civility and humanity then the subhuman filth I saw in Cut Bank, Montana.

Anyhow, the problem with Mormonism is its based on freemasonry. And freemasonry is based on occult buffonery dating back to the Babylonian Empire. They may seem nice at face value, but there is a deep rot underneath. But that pretty much sums up America as a whole these days.

[Jackal]

Erasmus,

I wouldn't wait til you have enough money to retire to leave the US. I would leave as soon as you're able. The value of the dollar is declining rapidly and many jobs are moving overseas. This is old news, but it continues to happen.

I think a better plan is to go to almost any foreign country, get a job there, and then plan your next move. Sitting and waiting in the US is most likely a losing proposition (unless maybe you have a year or two of college left or something. In that case, finish your degree and then leave).

[Erasmus]

I have lived overseas before. I have also run out of money and been unable to find a job overseas before.

My plans now are to learn my target area's language to near fluency and to save enough dinero and/or buy some income generating property so that I will have some monthly income.

I want to Expat from a position of strength. I dont want to have to put my foot to the pavement and pound on doors in the hopes that some local person will take sympathy upon this foreigner. Not too many people have sympathy for Americans anyway.

But one thing that might help is the find a woman with a decent job to pay half the bills.