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Something I don't get about professional therapy

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Something I don't get about professional therapy

Postby Winston » Sat Jul 05, 2008 1:07 am

Hi all,
You've all heard the phrase "go get help" when someone wants to put you down. It's not really advice, but a judgment on you that you have mental issues or problems.

But what I don't get is, what's the point of actually going to a professional therapist or shrink? What does it accomplish?

In real life, they don't actually DO anything to help you or solve your problems. All they do is ask open ended questions and listen to you, then paraphrase what you say, and ask more questions. Then, when the hour session is over, they simply make another appointment for next week, and repeat the same thing again.

So what is the point? Nothing gets accomplished or solved. It's like talking to a tree almost.

I know cause I've gone to shrinks before. And when I bring up this complaint to them, they often say, "Well what do you want me to do?" and I think well duh, isn't that your job to know what to do?!

Gee whiz, you don't even have to know anything about psychology to engage in the art of open ended listening and conversation skill.

Anyhow, some shrinks I've met are actually very smart, wise, understanding, and have great people skills. They size up a person or situation very well and quickly, with great insight. But others suck and you can't tell that they don't know anything but are merely following a rehearsed script. Others are in the middle or are only good at conventional wisdom, but not anything outside of it and are not deep.

I even had one debating me about things he knew nothing about. What a frickin idiot.

However, when I see therapy on TV though, it seems like they are actually doing something. For phobias, they try to desensitive the patient, by exposing him/her to what he/she fears, whether it be heights or snakes, etc.

Or they use psychoanalysis, or that thing where they call one word and you say the first word that comes out of your mind, free association I believe.

Or they use REM treatment for post traumatic stress syndrome.

So how come they show therapists doing actual treatment on TV, but in real life, in my experience at least, all they do is just talk and ask questions without solving anything?

Have I gone to all the wrong shrinks? Is there something I'm missing here?

Any other experiences here with shrinks?
Last edited by Winston on Sun Jul 06, 2008 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Enishi » Sat Jul 05, 2008 3:12 pm

The bad ones you've met are probably just in it for the money, and therefore try to draw the therapy out as long as possible.
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Postby jamesbond » Sat Jul 05, 2008 4:17 pm

I read a book recently by Dr. Arthur Janov about a revolutionary therapy he came up with 40 years ago that he calls Primal Therapy. He gets the patient to eventually feel the pain from his childhood and not just talk about his problems or his past. A lot of crying goes on in this therapy, as that is the only way to heal the wounds from the past. Talking about the wounds from the past do not heal the wounds, only crying and reliving the pain from the past will heal all wounds eventually. The name of the book is "The Primal Scream." He also has written several more books regarding this therapy. Psychotherapy is a waste of time and money as all the patient does is talk about what's bothering him. There is no real "healing" going on as the only way out the pain is through the pain. Crying is the "healing feeling" the more one cries, the more emotional pain is released from consciousness and the more mentally healthy a person becomes.

Ever notice you feel better after a good cry? It's because emotional pain has been discharged via the tears. Scientists have discovered there are stress hormones in tears that need to be released from the human body. Crying eliviates this stress hormones from the body. Crying is natural and normal for human beings. Another excellent book to read is "Cure by Crying" by Thomas Stone. He cured his own neurosis by reliving his childhood pain and doing a lot of crying. He claims all of his neurotic behaviors are gone and he did this therapy on his own without the help of any therapist. He did see therapists in the past and they were of little help. Here is a link to his book at Amazon, http://www.amazon.com/Cure-Crying-Depre ... 0964767406
Here is a link for Dr. Janovs book, "The Primal Scream" http://www.amazon.com/Primal-Scream-The ... 204&sr=1-1
Dr. Janov also has a treatment center in Los Angeles for people who want to undergo his therapy, here is the link for that, http://www.primaltherapy.com/index.html
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counselling

Postby robincolorado » Sat Jul 05, 2008 6:38 pm

WInston,

I think the biggest thing it does is gives you an outside perspective on what it is that is going on inside of your head. That being said, my amateur perspective and my personal perspective is that one can go to some self-help seminars, read some good self-help books, and meditate and probably come up with some good conclusions on their own. The key ingredient here is staying open being totally honest with self and not getting all caught up in ego over who you think you are. Two of my personal heros are Chopra and Dyer. (Deepok and Wayne) I have read their books, seen them in person, and listened to many tapes and CDs. Marrianne Williamson is another person who I got a lot from. This shows that I am not totally closed to a woman's wisdom :-) I have done some small groups that had to do with healing the inner child also and learned a lot from these. This all works for one self - however if your significant other does not see the need to do this work also, it is probably not going to help the relationship. The old expression of "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make 'em drink" applies here. A person has to decide that they want to change before change can take place. An alcoholic has to decide that there is a problem before they can stop drinking. However, there is an term known as being a "dry drunk"; this is an alcoholic who goes to meetings, quits drinking and then continues with their irresponsible behaviour and substitutes some other self destructive behaviour for their drinking. As you can see, healing oneself or getting to the core of a problem can be quite complicated. I have read that getting to your "true self" is like peeling away the layers of an onion. All that being said, there are a lot of people out there in the world who would say; this is too difficult, takes too much time, and besides, I don't have any problems - it's everyone else that has a problem. There is a quote from Freud that says this pretty succinctly. "All the world is crazy 'cept me and thee - and somethimes I am not too sure about thee".

Rob
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"Go get help" is just an insult like "lose so

Postby polya » Sun Jul 06, 2008 4:29 am

The biggest problem is there are so many unqualified shrinks like "nurse therapists" who over-sell themselves saying "I can solve your depression by rebirthing you ." So patients are just left disappointed.

In reality, if you have cancer you are on drugs for years & may never be cured. So if you have mental problems, they will also take years to remedy (if ever). I think therapists have to tell patients that "its up to them to do the hard work & co-operate fully" because many patients aren't ready to be real & just waste therapists time.

Because everyone is different, there can be unique solutions - e.g. I solved my depression by leaving the USA & having my pick of girls in Europe. Also, I was depressed about the tough laws in the USA e.g. making failing to pay child support a felony is just too much considering the incompetent Police leave the real criminals to prosper (e.g. the NY construction racketeers) these are the people we should be putting in jail, not normal guys who have been screwed by their wives. Also, the draft will return soon, so boys you should be heading away now unless you want to fight "unwinable" wars for the next 10 years.

So I'm saying you have to be ready for therapy & if you spent energy yourself finding out why you are depressed, then your chances of getting better are much higher.
"Woman is a violent and uncontrolled animal... If you allow them to achieve complete equality with men, do you think they will be easier to live with? Not at all. Once they have achieved equality, they will be your masters." Cato the Elder
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Postby Winston » Sun Jul 06, 2008 6:08 pm

jamesbond wrote:I read a book recently by Dr. Arthur Janov about a revolutionary therapy he came up with 40 years ago that he calls Primal Therapy. He gets the patient to eventually feel the pain from his childhood and not just talk about his problems or his past. A lot of crying goes on in this therapy, as that is the only way to heal the wounds from the past. Talking about the wounds from the past do not heal the wounds, only crying and reliving the pain from the past will heal all wounds eventually. The name of the book is "The Primal Scream." He also has written several more books regarding this therapy. Psychotherapy is a waste of time and money as all the patient does is talk about what's bothering him. There is no real "healing" going on as the only way out the pain is through the pain. Crying is the "healing feeling" the more one cries, the more emotional pain is released from consciousness and the more mentally healthy a person becomes.

Ever notice you feel better after a good cry? It's because emotional pain has been discharged via the tears. Scientists have discovered there are stress hormones in tears that need to be released from the human body. Crying eliviates this stress hormones from the body. Crying is natural and normal for human beings. Another excellent book to read is "Cure by Crying" by Thomas Stone. He cured his own neurosis by reliving his childhood pain and doing a lot of crying. He claims all of his neurotic behaviors are gone and he did this therapy on his own without the help of any therapist. He did see therapists in the past and they were of little help. Here is a link to his book at Amazon, http://www.amazon.com/Cure-Crying-Depre ... 0964767406
Here is a link for Dr. Janovs book, "The Primal Scream" http://www.amazon.com/Primal-Scream-The ... 204&sr=1-1
Dr. Janov also has a treatment center in Los Angeles for people who want to undergo his therapy, here is the link for that, http://www.primaltherapy.com/index.html


W: So true James Bond. I felt so much better last year when I cried during Christmas. It was a release and spiritual experience.

Those books sound interesting and may be just what I need. I will look into ordering them. While reading about them on amazon.com, I found another book by Dr. Janov, called "Primal Healing":

http://www.amazon.com/Primal-Healing-In ... DCR9F1FMNN

Long ago, I helped heal some of the pain in my past by writing out the story, and as I did, I relived the painful experience of each moment as if they were happening right now. That made it hard to go through, but therapeutic at the same time. Here is what I wrote:

http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/Christian_Story.htm

One question though, how do those authors above suggest reliving their childhood or painful memories? Do you undergo hypnosis? Can you do it with just the book or do you need a shrink to help you?
Last edited by Winston on Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
Check out the latest posts in our blog The Happier Abroaders.

Don't forget my HA Grand Ebook and Dating Sites!

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World
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Re: counselling

Postby Winston » Sun Jul 06, 2008 6:20 pm

robincolorado wrote:WInston,

I think the biggest thing it does is gives you an outside perspective on what it is that is going on inside of your head. That being said, my amateur perspective and my personal perspective is that one can go to some self-help seminars, read some good self-help books, and meditate and probably come up with some good conclusions on their own. The key ingredient here is staying open being totally honest with self and not getting all caught up in ego over who you think you are. Two of my personal heros are Chopra and Dyer. (Deepok and Wayne) I have read their books, seen them in person, and listened to many tapes and CDs. Marrianne Williamson is another person who I got a lot from. This shows that I am not totally closed to a woman's wisdom :-) I have done some small groups that had to do with healing the inner child also and learned a lot from these. This all works for one self - however if your significant other does not see the need to do this work also, it is probably not going to help the relationship. The old expression of "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make 'em drink" applies here. A person has to decide that they want to change before change can take place. An alcoholic has to decide that there is a problem before they can stop drinking. However, there is an term known as being a "dry drunk"; this is an alcoholic who goes to meetings, quits drinking and then continues with their irresponsible behaviour and substitutes some other self destructive behaviour for their drinking. As you can see, healing oneself or getting to the core of a problem can be quite complicated. I have read that getting to your "true self" is like peeling away the layers of an onion. All that being said, there are a lot of people out there in the world who would say; this is too difficult, takes too much time, and besides, I don't have any problems - it's everyone else that has a problem. There is a quote from Freud that says this pretty succinctly. "All the world is crazy 'cept me and thee - and somethimes I am not too sure about thee".

Rob


W: Wayne Dyer has always inspired me. His voice and words sound so spiritual and positive and packed with so much spiritual wisdom.

But Chopra is hard to follow. He doesn't captivate you the way Dyer does, and he uses too much techno-babble in his books that they are hard to follow. He just doesn't have much personal charisma either. I have no idea how he got so successful, when there are thousands of teachers in India that are just like him, if not better.

Mariam Williamson is wise. But I like Barbara DeAngelis. She packs a lot of true spiritual wisdom in her words and advice. She is similar to Dyer and has even met him too.

It is hard to heal a relationship if the other person isn't cooperating. Dianne refuses to go to any counseling or therapy for example, cause she doesn't want to talk about our problems to a stranger or third party.
Check out the latest posts in our blog The Happier Abroaders.

Don't forget my HA Grand Ebook and Dating Sites!

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Postby jamesbond » Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:30 am

Winston in regards to how to do the therapy, Dr. Janov says it needs to be done by a certified therapist but he also says if that's not possible, then you can do it on your own. You can write out things that have happend in your past and see if anything triggers some emotional response. He said feeling the pain is the only way to heal your soul, cying is the "healing feeling." Thomas Stone the man who wrote the book, "Cure by Crying" did all his therapy on his own simply by writing out his youthful experiences and doing a lot of crying over what transpired from his past. He said sometimes he would cry for two or three hours straight but afterwards he felt whole and complete. Scientists and psychologist say the more a person cries and relives painful memories the more the mind and emotions are healed and the more mentally healthy a person becomes. So you don't need to to see a therapist but if you can, it sounds like a therapist that does primal therapy is the way to go. Otherwise, just do what you did and write out things that have happened in your past and remember crying is the way a person heals their soul, mind and emotions.

- Paul
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Postby Enishi » Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:08 pm

One form of therapy I've tried which works well is EFT. You can download the program for free. Its no miracle cure, mind you, but it helps.

http://www.emofree.com/

Winston, I don't know how to say this without sounding insulting, but after observing this whole fiasco with Diane and your behavior therein, I think its imperative that you look into this, as well as the primal therapy. Also, try meditating more. If you have trouble with it, you can always attend a vipassana seminar. They're free.

Meditation helps cut through illusions. Sometimes the aspects we believe are part of our innate self can indeed be altered with the proper method.
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