Why do many guys think women are all about money, power and economics?

[Winston]

Simple. Money is power, and feminists (male and female) only think of relationships in terms of power. That's why they say American women are empowered and foreign women are submissive slaves. American women are empowered through money (police, the state, their jobs, child support, alimony, property distribution, welfare, etc). So Americans view Foreign women as choosing men exclusively for monetary reasons rather than for other reasons.


The same argument is made for sex tourism and prostitution. The relatively wealthier western man is taking advantage of poor women who wouldnt give them the time of day if not for his money. That's oppression to them, not an equal exchange of goods and services.

Otherwise those foreign women would charge a lot more if they werent oppressed.

But my point is that money is not the key factor in all human relationships and friendships. There are always many exceptions. I see personal chemistry as being a far bigger factor.

Here's something to think about

- No sociology or relationship textbook or study has shown that money is the key factor in making marriage or relationships work. Show me one that does.

- Rich couples do not last longer than poor couples. Look at Hollywood couples for example.

- Studies on happiness show that the rich are not happier than those who are not rich. Happiness is an attitude.

[Winston]

The double oxymoron type cliches, "The Best Things in Life are Free" but "MONEY Makes the World Go Round" sums it up for me. A LONG time ago during the more idealistic period of my youthful late teenage years and early 20s I thought of money, salesmen, businessmen ect as EVIL or as Rippoffs. But by my late 20s after struggling through a dozen "shit jobs" I KNEW the creation of a profit when buying and selling a product or service was thE ONLY way to escape needing a job or regular salary.

And I realized that anyone proclaiming / preaching money NOT to be important or the accumulation of assets and money as shallow was FULL of SHIT in MOST cases was using their anti-money opinion as a defense mechanism for their FAILURE at making money and accumulating assets or a growth of their NET WORTH. So back in those days I decided one had to PROVE one could be SUCCESSFUL at making money and accumulating wealth BEFORE making such a proclamation that MONEY DOESN'T MATTER to avoid being a phony.

Another way of looking or describing or thinking about money and its essence is as INFORMATION or as X # of digits in a computer's data bank like another form of content. The possible BLAH BLAH BLAHs are unlimited with this topic so I won't be following up with any comments after this one otherwise it'll become like the topics of religion and politics better to AGREE to DISAGREE cause it turns out as wasting ones energy with NO REWARD other than fatigue.

W: But isn't that an oxymoron? If someone is interested in money, he/she will likely do more to make it and be better at making it. But if someone is not as interested in money, they are more likely to fail or be lazy at making money. So it's already a given, not a cause.

I know New Age gurus like Deepak Chopra that have a lot of money and are millionaires, but they do not say that money is the key to happiness and freedom or that it is "everything". So I guess they would fit your criteria of being qualified to say that money isn't everything.

Perhaps I should rephrase my question: Why do most guys see money and power as the ONLY factor in everything? Is anyone here arguing that it is the ONLY factor in everything?

Look at this collection of quotes about happiness, success and wisdom. Do any of them talk about money being the ONLY factor in everything?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUMem5RXAI8

[Winston]

Some more points:

- If money is the top factor in everything, then how come girls reject guys with money if he isn't their type?

- How come spending more money on a girl doesn't make the relationship better or more happier?

- How come most girls say they don't like guys only for money? (to say they are all lying is a copout)

- How come the relationships or friendships in my life that were based on money didn't last long?

Money is a necessity in life, to a point, and is a big factor in a lot of things. But it's not the top or only factor in everything.

Money didn't create the oceans and continents or the air we breathe, or our own souls and bodies. Nature did. So why can't guys ever see Nature? Why are these guys so blind?

WTF?!

[outcastsuperstar]

“W: Not to you specifically since I don't know your views. I was talking about most guys I've met in person here.�

I thought you were is because in the Love Dating Relationship thread, you responded me and in the same post directed to me you asked “Why do most Guys only see money, power, and economics?�

“How come they have more free time than those silicon valley drones who are making a lot of money yet have no free time?�

It can be difficult to find the right balance at any particular time. If one invests money toward retirement and is not tied down to a family he wouldn’t have to work himself in a grave. If they invest a big percentage toward retirement where they got a few hundred thousand dollars, then they could move to a place like The Philippines or Thailand just living off the interest. I do hear where you coming from in that most of these guys probably never heard about Foreign Women and will mostly be stuck with ungrateful American Woman past their prime who at any given moment will take those Silicon Valley drones to the cleaners. I would agree with you, this would be a depressing life.

Are you claiming that money creates attraction?

Yes, I’m claiming this to a degree. The reason I’m claiming this is from what I have read Foreign believe American Men are very wealthy (Whether they are or not) and therefore will most likely be attracted to him.

What about all those studies that show that the rich are not happier than everyone else?

I haven’t read any studies on happiness but here is my opinion. I agree money alone will not buy happiness but in my view it is an element.

For instance I much rather be a poor bum than have lots of money while being married to a ball busting American Bitch bossing me around and giving me orders.

At the same time I know if I were to have money in the reserves I would feel more secure, I could also travel, and indulge in many hobbies.

So I will sum by putting it this way I much rather be poor and have lots freedom, as opposed to be rich but being a slave. At the same time I much rather have both wealth and freedom at the same time.

Also, spiritual gurus say that the best memories you have in life are not those that involve money. Do you find that to be true?

I stay far away from spiritual gurus, I’m personally agnostic. To make a long story short I had Christiananity shoved down my throat up until the age of 17. The only reason I got out of going to church was I heard rumors about the pastors being involved in fraudulent money schemes. Once, I found that out and told my parents they went out and took walk and when they came back they said God told them “I don’t have to go to church anymore�. Since it was heavily forced on me as child to the point where I didn’t feel like a human been and one time I was nearly driven to suicide at the age of 13, I would never get involved with anything spiritual. I am the worst person to ask something about spirituality. I hate going to church the only times I have been to church since I was 17 is when my older sisters got married.

Also, James Grey didn't answer my questions and examples in bold above. Can you answer them? If not, doesn't that say that you guys are hiding something and refuse to admit that you're wrong in certain areas and that money isn't the top factor in everything?

I believe money is the big driving force but it isn’t everything. I will give you my opinion to your questions directed to him as well since you have asked.

W: If you can prove how money was the biggest factor in my human relationships, then I'll admit you're right. But I bet you can't. Prove how and why money was the biggest factor in Dianne's attraction to me, for example. She had many rich guys to choose from, among foreigners and Filipinos, any time she wanted. But she chose a poor guy like me, cause she felt right about me and had feelings for me. EXPLAIN THAT!

Money isn’t everything for all girls. For most of them it does play a role. After Diane had the kid she did become very materialistic and demanding.

And how come rich guys get rejected by women who don't like their personality? Explain that one! I personally know guys who are richer than me, but the girls like me more than them, cause I have a more likable personality and charm and humor.

Some women will do this. The vast majority in my opinion will pick someone who is financially secure. I’m not talking about a rich millionaire but someone who does have modest wealth/income.

Sorry, but that example alone proves you wrong.

There are countless such stories.

There are countless examples which go both ways it’s a matter of opinion of which way is the majority.

How about stories where people quit a high paying job for a lower paying job that brings more satisfaction? Obviously, money wasn't the factor there.

There is a big flaw to this statement. This is this person already has already a few hundred thousand dollars stashed in retirement and doesn’t need to continue making big money so the person then took a lower paying job once he was financially secure.

And did you see that Near Death Experience video I posted in the religion/spirituality section, where this business tycoon quit his profession to become a teacher, after having had a Near Death Experience? He now makes very little money, just enough to survive, whereas before he was making a ton of money, all because he decided to follow his calling after the NDE. Explain how money was the chief deciding factor in that!

There are exceptions to every rule this is just one individual. The vast majority of business tycoons would not quit their profession to become a teacher.

One final question to you. Suppose there were two guys, one was a lot richer than the other, but the poorer guy had some qualities that the rich guy didn't have, such as a pleasant personality, humor, and charm. Now, would you say that 100 percent of all available women would choose the richer guy everytime? If not, and I hope you admit that, then why not? If money were the BIGGEST factor in everything in existence, then WHY wouldn't 100 percent of all women choose the richer guy everytime???????? Think about it.

It may not be 100%, but if it’s say 75-80% it would still make a vast majority where I believe the vast majority would pick someone who is financially stable (Not Super Rich) over someone who wasn’t.

W: THen how come no one saw the recession of 2001 coming? And how come economic models are not 100 percent accurate?

Realistically 9/11 happened that particular year. A catastrophic event like that could never be predicted while the other examples I made are very predictable.

W: That may be true, but why are these guys unable to see other factors that matter?

There are other factors but getting financially I believe is the most important one and then the other factors would fall into place.

W: What? I'm not talking about the psychology of money, or money's role in psychology. Again, you are trying to tie it all in with money. I'm talking about psychology in general. Have you ever read anything about psychology? Open up any of the writings of Sigmund Freud, Carl Jung, Abraham Maslow, BF Skinner, etc. the famous psychologists, and see if any of them said that all human behavior is motivated by money. Bet you can't.

I’m not into psychology. You still need money to take care of your most basic needs. Once your most basic needs are met then money wouldn’t be as big of an issue.

W: My God. Are you serious? Or joking? Tell me you are joking. ANYONE knows what chemistry is, and it has NOTHING to do with money! NOTHING! Look up the definition of it!

Those have to do with chemistry. What does supply and demand have to do with those things? Explain.

The point I’m trying to by using supply and demand with chemistry is this.

I’m a firm believer in the 80/20 rule which is 80% of women sleep with 20% of the guys. When American Women are in their prime they are competing against each other to sleep with those few select guys. These select guys have the luxury of playing these women off each other. Thus the few select guys get high quality sex for low prices. This is pure competition for those exciting bad boys and thugs with no future.

While at the same time there would no chemistry for good hardworking men in the USA with American Women in their prime because exciting boys and thugs with no futures are in demand thus there is chemistry between them while Good Hardworking are just a dime in the dozen.

I also believe an average American Joe can develop better chemistry with Foreign Women because generally they are more financially stable.

If an Average Joe is making $60K-100K a year, he would get to enjoy hotter women in other countries as opposed to the USA.

Foreign will see this average Joe as the prize as opposed to here in America being just another a dime in the dozen.

The average Joe gets to enjoy a pure competition market the trick is just not to get married or have kids with them. If one turns into crap then there are plenty of competitors who will happy to step in.

The fact of matter is the Average Joe would have a better selection if he were to go overseas compared to what is offered here in America. (Used up women in their 30's)

At least the average Joe can enjoy the youth and beauty which other countries have to offer. There for the Average Joe would be able to develop chemistry better.

It was a figure of speech. Yes money can tie me down. But I can always make the choice of walking away. We all have choices. I can choose not to be a slave to money as well, if I want.

Well I guess in the Philippines they don’t enforce child support. What I do know is if it this happened in the USA and a man in a similar situation tried to walk away and refused to pay child support, he would get thrown in prison.

W: Yeah, well try to understand my point. Money matters and can buy you things you want. But I do NOT see it as the chief factor in all my relationships and friendships. And it isn't either. Do you contest that or agree with that?

I believe money is a big factor but not the only factor. You did state you were making $800 a month while the average income in the Philippines is $80. You would be seen off the bat as someone more attractive than a local Filipino suitor. By no means it’s the only factor.

[momopi]

Some more points:

- If money is the top factor in everything, then how come girls reject guys with money if he isn't their type?

- How come spending more money on a girl doesn't make the relationship better or more happier?

- How come most girls say they don't like guys only for money? (to say they are all lying is a copout)

- How come the relationships or friendships in my life that were based on money didn't last long?

Money is a necessity in life, to a point, and is a big factor in a lot of things. But it's not the top or only factor in everything.

Money didn't create the oceans and continents or the air we breathe, or our own souls and bodies. Nature did. So why can't guys ever see Nature? Why are these guys so blind?

WTF?!

This is a pretty complicated question, because attraction is not based solely on one attribute. Also, money isn't everything, but women marrying up the socio-economic ladder is a historical trend.

If you ask a women about her ideal mate, she'd probably say something like tall and handsome, good personality, etc. Upon closer examination, we'd find any physical attributes that represents the higher socio-economic class, and women using these attributes to evaluate the sexual market value of the man (selective breeding?). Again, these are just one of many attributes that women use to judge a man's worth.

Let's look at mail order brides. They're usually from poorer countries, and they want to marry into richer countries. And if we look down further on the economic ladder, to the people on "survival mode", they're even more blunt about the money issue.

When women from higher socio-economic ladder marry someone of lower social status, but of similiar or higher economic status, people might poke at it but eventually they'll accept it. But if she married down both ways, then people will say it's dysgenic. Watch the movie "Idiocracy" for a fun poke at this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiocracy



p.s. Here's another interesting (1990 classic) read:
http://web.archive.org/web/200705201130 ... DAMS+1.htm

Emigration A survey was conducted in 1990 into the criteria of male attractiveness in the eyes of Hong Kong women. It showed that although most women wanted to marry Chinese men and rated them highest, Canadians, Australians, Americans and New Zealanders were rated as the most attractive foreigners. British men came nowhere in the poll. It appears that the attractiveness of men had very little to do with appearance or character. The fashionability of men's country of origin for emigration purposes was however strongly correlated with physical attractiveness. Wealth seems also to have a similar magnetic effect - Dickson Poon, a wealthy shop owner, is similarly credited with Adonis- like handsomeness. Conspicuous display of wealth seems to be a pheremone-type aphrodisiac for certain Hong Kong women. Many Hong Kong women, like many Hong Kong men, want to emigrate. Canada and Australia are commonly perceived as presenting the best prospects for an undisturbed life style and freedom from racial prejudice. Emigration to other parts of Asia is low and Taiwan seems to interest nobody. Europe is becoming more attractive for the more desperate or culturally inspired emigrant - the Iceland Consulate in Hong Kong receives enquiries regularly from would-be emigrants. Britain is such an unpopular emigration destination that the 50,000 passports offered to Hong Kong people were almost under-subscribed. The game of Emigration is played from a position of hostility towards the prospective country of destination combined with a strong though largely unconscious desire to get out of Hong Kong. After a search for available overseas Chinese has been exhausted, the Emigration player suddenly discovers a strong romantic interest in foreigners. The attitude to foreign men has thus changed considerably even in the past few years in Hong Kong, largely unconsciously. The Emigration player dates more Western men and gravitates towards them at parties, meetings and even in restaurants. Some women's search ends at the thriving marriage agencies who charitably charge both parties double fees when a foreigner is introduced to a local person. The switch in Emigration comes when it is discovered that the foreigner is as poor as a church mouse, not interested or already attached. He, and the foreigner population in general, suddenly becomes unattractive and uninteresting. It must be stressed that in order for Emigration to be a game, the Hong Kong woman is largely unaware of her motivation and reasoning in pursuing foreigners. Active and aware passport hunting is not a game. ANALYSIS Thesis: I am not a passport hunter. Aim: Alleviation of shame. Roles: Xenophile Girl, Foreigner. Dynamics: Introjected guilt. Moves: 1. You are very handsome. 2. Which passport? Switch: It says here you're married with four kids. Payoff: I don't know what I ever saw in him. Advantages: Psychological - I'm not that cheap. Social - Escape from Stalinism and it is true love.

[outcastsuperstar]

I decided to start reading the blog Getting Rich Slowly

One topic which came up is called "Is it more important to be rich or to be happy?

http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2008/ ... -be-happy/

It's a great read and it fits in with this subject matter beautifully.

[Jackal]

Hi Winston,

Yes, more disciplines besides economics are needed to have a more complete understanding of human behavior, but economics is a very useful tool for understanding the modern world much of the time. We ain't in Iraq to "spread freedom and democracy." If you look more deeply at most of the actions by nation-states, they are mostly driven by economics. Our capitalist societies are based upon the premise of working for money (or some form of payment), so it's no wonder that economics is useful in these societies.

I think the flaw in your reasoning is that you think economics is only about money. In reality, economics has a broader scope and it's really about the allocation of scarce resources (money, hookers, supercomputers, tomatoes...). Attractive women are a scarce resource, and most of us men here want to go to a country where we are more in demand, so we will have an easier time getting supplied with young booty. Even if somebody is trading beaver pelts for religious instruction that's still economics. Sure, the air we breathe isn't dependant on money, but it is a resource which is available to everybody, therefore economists would classify it as a "public good."

I have no doubt about the power of chemistry: Get a girl drunk and she loses a lot of her inhibitions. God bless biochemistry!

There's no reason to feel alienated by economics. Economics is simply continuing the scientific method begun by the ancient Greeks in the realm of social science. A lot of the articles in the popular press about economics are garbage, but real economics goes very deep. My economics professors were some of the smartest and most sensible people I've ever met.

[momopi]

My coworker made a rather blunt statement:

"money won't buy you love, but it will get you laid".

[Winston]

Hi all,

Yesterday while having dinner with a few friends and Dianne, I said some sappy romantic things in front of one of my American buddies, and he immediately blushed, got uncomfortable, and tried to change the subject. I laughed and teased him about it.

But I suddenly realized something. Most western guys are most comfortable when talking about business, economics, or politics. But when it comes to sweet, sappy, romantic, sentimental things and deep feelings, most western guys get uncomfortable and feel out of their zone. I guess that's what sets me apart from most guys.

And of course, it gives me extra points to Filipinas, since they like that kind of thing and bond with it, over other western guys who might be bigger or richer than me.

I just don't get why most guys do not have deep feelings or are unable to express them naturally and comfortably.

Thus, this is one thing that girls here like about me. I asked Dianne about it, and she said she preferred me the way I am, sweet and romantic, rather than like other guys who are only comfortable talking about business and economics.

But I wonder, why am I so different from most guys? I am not gay or anything. But how is it that I can be sweet, romantic, sappy, sentimental, or talk about deep feelings so comfortably and naturally, whereas other guys can't? Why am I different?

This difference goes against me in the US, as most western women see that as a weakness making a guy "friend material" only, but here it seems to gain me mega points with Filipinas.

I just thought I'd share this observation.

[Winston]

To give you some specific examples of what I meant yesterday by sappy, sentimental, or romantic,

- When I hold a girl's hand on a date, I say things like,

"When I hold your hand, I feel electricity running through me"

"My heart beats faster when I hold you"

"I feel like time stops when I'm with you and see you"

"You make me feel like a school boy when I first saw you"

"I can't believe I'm with someone sooooooo beautiful"

Etc.

Foreign women love those kind of things. How come other guys never say things like that?

- When I talk about relationships with guys, I talk about having a connection, bond, chemistry, or comfort zone, while they talk about money and sex.

How come?

[Winston]

"Those who think that money cannot buy love simply do not have enough money".

W: I beg to differ on that one. In my experience, money can only buy COMPLIANCE from women, not true love. I've never seen a true romeo and juliet type of love that was bought by money. In fact, I've seen guys with money rejected or eventually dumped by women after they've had their fun and didn't feel that it was "right".

Dianne recently told me that when she was working at the bar for a week, some of the wealthy customers at the bar made big promises and offers to her. They used the same approach as my former friend Stefan, in that they tried to buy her love with promises to take care of all her financial problems and obligations so that she could be trouble free in terms of money. But Dianne didn't feel right about it, so she respectfully declined. She said some rich Filipino guys have made the same offers to her in the past, but she declined too.

What most guys don't get and never talk about is that probably the most important factor is how you make the woman FEEL. That's really the bottom line, and all the girls I talked to agree with that. Money can add or take away from it, but it's not the bottom line in love affairs. All the girls I talked to agree. But most guys here only see money and power and women's submission to it. They never talk about connection, chemistry, bond, soul mates, or how they make the girl FEEL. Why is that? Am I the only guy that's not shallow or one dimensional?

Of course, when I bring this up to guys, they rationalize it away by saying that the girls just say that to save face and not look like sluts. But that's just rationalizing. What I say makes sense and rings true in my experience, so I don't see any "rationalizing".

Thus, I believe that I am right, and most girls would agree.

So then again, why am I different from other guys?

[momopi]

In US, when you're poor, you chase after women. But when you have wealth and status, women chase you.

To cite just one example, my Vietnamese buddy's younger brother was a total nerd and had zero social life through high school. Then he got into med school and had girls calling all the time, leaving msgs on their answering machine. Quite hilarious at the time.

After he graduated, the family was bombarded with arranged marriage offers from "friends" that they didn't know they had. He almost got hooked by a gold digger, but fortunately his father got him out of it. Now he's a doctor and happily married to a dentist. Their annual combined income probably exceeds the market value of my condo, and the funny thing is both are super-cheap & bugged me to design and print their wedding invites for free. LoL.

[Shokkers]

This thread reminded me of a scene in the Chris Rock movie "I think I love my wife":
Chris is a banker about to get fired by his boss, for spending too much time out of the office with a female friend. But the boss doesn't fire him, just gives him probation...and says:

"You can lose a lot of money chasing women. But you'll never lose women chasing money."

I think there's an unfortunate but usable truth to that.

Best, K.K.

Shameless Plug: In ROCK HER WORLD there's a huge section on 'Economical Romance' that shows you how to date for a stupidly low cost.

[WorldTraveler]

"Those who think that money cannot buy love simply do not have enough money".

W: I beg to differ on that one. In my experience, money can only buy COMPLIANCE from women, not true love. I've never seen a true romeo and juliet type of love that was bought by money. In fact, I've seen guys with money rejected or eventually dumped by women after they've had their fun and didn't feel that it was "right".

Dianne recently told me that when she was working at the bar for a week, some of the wealthy customers at the bar made big promises and offers to her. They used the same approach as my former friend Stefan, in that they tried to buy her love with promises to take care of all her financial problems and obligations so that she could be trouble free in terms of money. But Dianne didn't feel right about it, so she respectfully declined. She said some rich Filipino guys have made the same offers to her in the past, but she declined too.

What most guys don't get and never talk about is that probably the most important factor is how you make the woman FEEL. That's really the bottom line, and all the girls I talked to agree with that. Money can add or take away from it, but it's not the bottom line in love affairs. All the girls I talked to agree. But most guys here only see money and power and women's submission to it. They never talk about connection, chemistry, bond, soul mates, or how they make the girl FEEL. Why is that? Am I the only guy that's not shallow or one dimensional?

Of course, when I bring this up to guys, they rationalize it away by saying that the girls just say that to save face and not look like sluts. But that's just rationalizing. What I say makes sense and rings true in my experience, so I don't see any "rationalizing".

Thus, I believe that I am right, and most girls would agree.

So then again, why am I different from other guys?

Both of you guys are right. First having money is always better than having no money, if both people have the same amount of free time. Ladislav is right because there are girls out there that money will buy. Dianne and many other girls look for chemistry and money is not it. But there is another group of girls that would only date some very rich powerful man. They fall in love w/ that man. That is their chemisty.
-
The problem with the money syndrome is that many men believe, that if I only had money I'd get all the girls. This is just a way to rationalize why they do not get women.

Overall who you are is more important than how much money you have. Just as important is that you have to be living in an environment where girls still want men, or it won't matter how much money you have or how charming you are.

[Winston]

I forgot to mention that I also knew a doctor once who came to Angeles City. He was very nice and generous and kind, and I enjoyed his company. After I toured him around, he found a young cute girl he totally fell for and was set on. So he poured his generosity onto her. He treated her and all her friends and cousins to big dinners, made her big promises to take care of her and her family, etc. cause he could afford to.

All the while she was giving him mixed signals, but he held out his hope, trying to win her over.

Later on, he went down to an island called Negros Occidental and then decided to send her a plane ticket to join him. He had me escort her to the airport. I did so and she went on her way.

A week later, I was shocked to learn that she walked out of their hotel one morning, and never came back. Probably, she caught a bus or hitchhiked several hours to her home town on that island.

But that was the last he saw of her and so he had it.

This doctor was one of Stefan's acquaintances whom he subcontracted to work for his medical diagnosis website. He was probably coached by Stefan and followed his approach of showering the girl with generosity, followed by making promises to her to take care of all her financial needs of her and her family, etc. in order to win her love and heart. Yet so much for that.

How come I don't have to do that to get women here? Stefan told me repeatedly that I can't win a girl's heart or make her stay with me, unless I shower her with generosity and prove that I can splurge money without a problem. His theory was that unless I was tall, blonde and had a super body, I can't find a girl who wants me for me here, and so I have to have lots of money and be generous with it, in order to get a girlfriend. That was his shallow thinking, which he projected onto others, which was his mistake.

Yet time and time again I proved him wrong. He never fessed up or apologized. Instead, he blasted me with insults further and further until I couldn't take it anymore.

So much for our "true friendship".

Anyhow, the bottom line is that I was proven right and he was wrong.

BTW, those girls that only like men with power and money aren't the types I would get along with or feel comfortable around anyway, even if I could get them. They vibe at a different frequency than me.