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Do most people feel unloved and unwanted in America?

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Postby Winston » Sun Dec 26, 2010 6:42 pm

vertical wrote:
People routinely get their companionship from pets, or establish some kind of pseudo sense of "family" with their coworkers who they mainly just see at work. People may tend to establish some friendships, but at the deepest level, they are on their own, with no one who would notice for the first few days if they dropped off the earth tomorrow, and no one who would really be there for them of they had an accident, got sick, got cancer, etc....


Damn, what a post. I would say having an emergency is one of the scariest things living in America because you don't know who'll be there to pick you up. You just hope emergencies don't happen, because you'll be on your own. I feel weird filling out those emergency contact numbers because I never really know who to put down.

I totally agree with your post about the disintegration of the family unit and the community in America.


Can't you just put your parents' names for emergency contact numbers?

I hate when people in America at work ask you what you are doing for the weekend (if it's a Friday) or what you did last weekend (if it's a Monday). It's like they assume that everyone has a fun active social life and always have interesting plans for the weekends. I wanna respond "Not much. How can I be doing something fun and social when everyone wants me to mind my own business and stay in my own bubble?" but of course, that is an answer that goes against the grain and would make you look like a loser. But on the other hand, I hate to lie about my plans. So I can't say much except that I "relaxed". lol
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Postby vertical » Mon Dec 27, 2010 12:01 am

Winston, that happens because in the US, your co-workers are your friends. It's not the same in Europe, but America is so work centric that co-workers are our only social interaction.
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Postby NorthAmericanguy » Mon Dec 27, 2010 4:39 am

ajushi wrote:In America, we are experiencing a multigenerational pattern of hyper-independence coupled with a multigenerational pattern of divorce/single mothering/unmarried parents (the two are directly related to one another).

So, we have a nation where at least half of the people under age 40 have psychological trauma and abandonment issues, deficient or non existent relationship with one or both parents, limited or no relationship with extended family. In such upbringings, neglect, which in itself is one of the worst forms of child abuse, is a given, while other forms of abuse or tragic circumstances, such as exposure to extreme marital conflict, parental alienation, lack of father figure, are also extremely common. Outright physical, sexual, and emotional/psychological abuse occurs to millions of children per year in the US (in fact, one out of every 4 women is sexually molested as a child). People who have not taken the 5 - 10 years of intensive work necessary to heal this kind of damage caused by this multi-generational pattern in the USA, are having and raising children when they themselves have no concept of parenting, no concept of family, little or no support system, and a mountain of psychological issues. This in turn produces kids that are so much more messed up.....

The end result of this is a nation of incredibly disconnected people with a very high rate of psychological issues due to divorce (which even in the very best case scenario itself equates to abandonment and typically destroys the entire family in the long run), neglect, abuse, family conflict, upheaval in childhood, etc..... who are on their own, fending for themselves since they come from estranged/destroyed families in a hyper independent society. This has gotten to be pretty much mainstream in America, where I think this applies for more than half of the people under age 40 right now, and plenty of the ones over 40.

So, the obvious result of such an existence is isolation and loneliness, feeling unwanted and unloved, because the people are in fact unloved. It is normal for Americans to live alone, eat alone, sleep alone, go months or years at a time without relationships, and to have none of their immediate family living in the city, or even the state, where they live, and to get most of their sense of human connection through a cell phone or Facebook. I have asked a few people working at restaurants and cafes here what they are doing for xmas and they give the same answer I do: "Ohhh.... just staying in town, hanging around here." That's because of course they have no family here in the place where they live, like about 3/4 of the people in the western half of the USA.

People routinely get their companionship from pets, or establish some kind of pseudo sense of "family" with their coworkers who they mainly just see at work. People may tend to establish some friendships, but at the deepest level, they are on their own, with no one who would notice for the first few days if they dropped off the earth tomorrow, and no one who would really be there for them of they had an accident, got sick, got cancer, etc.... People very frequently move in to a house, where a group of adults live together so they don't go insane from the isolation - this is becoming very common even among people in their 30s and 40s now as home ownership and employment has tanked and families are not sticking together and pooling resources because they are destroyed and estranged from divorce.

This stuff is totally mainstream. Of course people feel unwanted and unloved. I have been all over the USA except for the South (where things are clearly better in some states suhc as Tennesee, where 50 % of adults are unmarried as opposed to about 75% in New York) and this is what I have discerned. The USA civilization is in fact tanking rapidly due to the disintegration of nuclear family and family values centered around the institution of marriage and family. I am absolutely convinced that this is 100% the origin of the severe and disturbing social problems we are having - homelessness, highest rates of incarceration in the world, extreme rates of addiction (especially to food) and a tendency of people to be shockingly disconnected and un-neighborly living in their cocoons (most Americans do not even know the names or faces of the people living in the house next door and it has become pretty much taboo to approach or interact with strangers here at all).

Now all this is 100% true and I am sure of it. Yet I find it so interesting is that most people who come from a loving, supportive, nuclear family do not even notice or care about these things, and I do admit that I am one of the tens of millions who come from the more destroyed background and isolated existence (in fact, I am essentially an orphan who was neglected and abused as a kid). As a matter of fact, there are some wholesome families and some decent women in the US, but when you are in a place where you are literally generations outside of that, such as I am, then it is very hard to find. There is a high standard and the jobs are often held by the less wounded. Marriage minded women in the US tend to come from Christian backgrounds and wholesome families and while I am a Christian myself, it is hard to find a woman who solid like that and who is actually going to love and accept and commit with an abused person who has no family per se, which is a fair way to describe about 50 million men in the USA today (and there's our answer to "where are all the men?")

Americans really need to take a look around and wake up and smell the napalm. As a city councilmen told me the other day, "I am concerned about our society and what the future holds."

Me, I have my dream and my hope and I am never giving up on it, no matter how many times I've been abandoned, rejected, or used and discarded by women. I am going to find a woman who loves and accepts me and be married and have a loving, close family and break that cycle and I encourage all my American friends to do likewise.

Ill post a modified version of this as an update post in another subforum


Yes, I know a handful of women who are closer to their pets then real humans. It's VERY disturbing to see. They talk to their pets as if they can really understand them, they take them through a drive thru for food and water, and they pretty much take their pets with them everywhere else they go. And here in the east coast, in the banks, they provide dog biscuits for free to these type of customers.


One last thing, I was reading the latest issue of Scientific Amercian and there was an article that said that the basic empathy of Americans has sunk to an all time low. They said people cared more about each other 30 plus years ago which was the last study.
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Postby NorthAmericanguy » Mon Dec 27, 2010 5:03 am

vertical wrote:
People routinely get their companionship from pets, or establish some kind of pseudo sense of "family" with their coworkers who they mainly just see at work. People may tend to establish some friendships, but at the deepest level, they are on their own, with no one who would notice for the first few days if they dropped off the earth tomorrow, and no one who would really be there for them of they had an accident, got sick, got cancer, etc....


Damn, what a post. I would say having an emergency is one of the scariest things living in America because you don't know who'll be there to pick you up. You just hope emergencies don't happen, because you'll be on your own. I feel weird filling out those emergency contact numbers because I never really know who to put down.

I totally agree with your post about the disintegration of the family unit and the community in America.


I agree, I feel the same which is why I'm planing to get out of this country where the people care more, and the cost of living is cheaper.

In the mean time, all you need is money in the event of an emergency here in the states. It's sad, but, here in the states, you have to pay people to do things to you that they should do for free simply because they care.
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Postby ajushi » Mon Dec 27, 2010 6:53 am

Well I gotta say guys, its just f***ing rough for me to admit it and realize it, but what we are saying here in this thread is true. And I have been abroad now to see it with my own eyes.

The illustration about the single women with dogs instead of husbands, children, close friends, and extended family, is so true and yes it is very disturbing and it does raise very erioius concenrs about the health and future of the civilization.

It has in fact become incredibly difficult for a man to find or keep a partner here (and for a woman to do so also, for those few who seem to want to anymore) and the mentality has in fact become really f***ed up.... and I'll just say it like that for emphasis

America is a very ill society and it does need help and healing now. For years, even very recently, I had thought that it is mostly just my life, especially since I have no family and a screwed up background, but when I look around honestly at my my own friends, and even families I meet at church, I really do see a society of incredibly disconnected and isolated people.

Lets take a good scenario - I might see a couple who have 2 kids. They may have someone over from church one day a week for lunch and go to church on Sunday and that is the extent of their social life and sense of community and I happen to be one of their closest "friends" (we wouldn't notice for at least a month if the other dropped off the face of the earth tomorrow). The entire rest of the week, it is just the 4 of them, typically with no aunts, uncles, grandparents, or cousins in the area and no additional or closer friends. Lemme just say that is pretty sad, unhealthy and disconnected by the standard of most countries outside the USA.

Now lets look at the worst case scenario, which is literally half the population of the city I live in, you have a single person, usually living with one or more housemates or apartment flat mates, and totally lacking any family whatsoever in the city they live in (often even in the state they live in). Their closest "friend" may be someone they see once a week and they have a lot of rather skin deep connections at the bars, or at yoga class, or at work. You look around thinking these people have close friends and it is just you that is on your own relationally (lacking deep, reliable, meaningful relationship with people) but as you get to know people, you find we are all in this isolated and disconnected dynamic together.

As a result of the disconnected dynamic and the people (myself included) being ingrained in it, attempts to get people together to do stuff are pretty futile. Only in the most intentional church community do I see that happening in the USA, and it is usually only when focused around moving someone or having a once in a blue moon potluck or party. I can easily invite 6 people to dinner here in one night and get one response - a no.


There are even people get together for "focal therapy" (which means intentionally connect with friends for quality time), an idea devised by some researcher at a university based on the idea that if you connect with people more, it is good for you (my Lord help us..... they needed a PhD researcher to figure that out?!?!??!?!)


Here is the kicker - the worst crux of it all that I have figured out.....

People in a place like Bulgaria, for example - they psychologically develop in a life where you are continuously around people in the form of multigenerational family. This makes for a society of people who psychologically develop being very comfortable in their won skin around other, very outwarding connected, les inwardly focused, and easier for them to be and remain in relationshp with people in general.

Being alone, or even eating alone, is in fact quite depressing to them. They want more freedom and independence, but they also take comfort in being with their family.... and the idea living and eating alone and getting companionship from a dog would be an unthinkably depressing and terrifying thought to them. People will come and go freely to the home and this is totally normal - they are used to it.

But we Americans - we develop psychologically in and become habituated to a very isolated existence. This is especially true for the 10s of millions who are raised to single mothers or abused as children, but it is even pretty common in families that stay married but lack community or multi-generational family nearby. The terrible price of this is that we are psychologically incapable of dealing with exactly what we need - lots of community and multi-generational family. We are habituated to an extremely isolated and independent existence where we typically spend hours per day (often even all day long) alone, where we may be around strangers in public but that's about it. We grow up that way, and it becomes even more so in adulthood, as we chase education or career instead of family. Try going from that to being constantly exposed to people - the brain practically reels. Its like we need to be rehabilitated into the flock so to speak.

We have a 3 foot comfort zone and people actually apologize with a wounded expression on their face if you step within 3 feet of them at a grocery store - its so bizarre, I often feel like I am dreaming because our society is so insane.

Well, I go long periods without posting or reading here or anywhere else on these topics because I don't want to rant or indulge my own outsider mentality in my own society, and the fact is I live here and need to cope with what Ive got. Yet when it comes down to it, the USA is f***ed and rapidly getting worse. Even the people who don't see it that way and aren't concerned about it are themselves often one of these people who lives with a dog and some stranger, and is still single with no family at age 30 or 40. There are women in the tens of millions like this in the US.....and if you ask a lot of them if the are lonely they may say no, or how badly they want a partner, they may say not much. Its as if they've opted out of society. The whole country has gone mad. You can still find a loving and devoted partner who is very marriage and family minded, but it may come at a standard of expectations 2X higher than in any other country in the world, expectations that I admit I myself struggle to meet.

Ive been around this nation and talked to many people about these issues and there are two places where I see somewhat of a brighter situation (and I do mean only somewhat). One is in church. Two is in subcultures such as the latin America community - but almost useless if you are not of that culture. Three is the south, which at least has much higher marriage rate and much lower divorce rate
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Postby The_Adventurer » Mon Dec 27, 2010 7:44 am

Think about the flip side of this. How many Americans who had sense enough get out, go to a place like the Philippines and feel they have no privacy and that everyone is in their business all the time? Americans are not used to connectedness. I remember being shocked the first time I was walking out of my hotel in Philippines and the front desk clerk asked me where I was going.

I remember being more shocked when someone asked me where I was going, I answered, and they said "I'm going with you." just like that.

I remember being even more shocked when someone asked me where I going, I answered, and the guy said, "I'm going that way, you can ride with me." And I got a free ride!

I lived with a big family for a while in Philippines. Not my family. My American friend and his wife, her brothers and sisters and a few unrelated people. It was a full house of people of all ages. It was like a new experience for me. I occasionally missed solitude, but on the whole it was a hell of a lot better that going days in a row without a single real world human contact, like my life in LA. Even when I worked, it seemed like you go home Friday night and may not see another soul until Monday. The people I had the most connection with were the Thai girls who worked in the Thai food and bar down the street, and the Filipina who lived in my building.

In China, I think it depends where you are. IN Shanghai, I may go home from work on Friday and not see or hear from anyone until Monday. But the people in my QQ from other parts of China, both girls and guys, won't leave me alone. For my personal tastes, I would still choose China over Philippines, but probably another part of China than a huge metropolis like Shanghai. Here I can see the very things talked about in this thread coming to pass.
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Postby ajushi » Mon Dec 27, 2010 8:18 am

Well it really comes together in this thread now doesn't it.

Yea its true what Ive said and what Winston and many others have noted about America - its fu**ed and we dont need a study to see that. In fact the idea that these jackasses are even researching or bickering about it at universities.... they need to wake up. People can open their eyes and look around and see for themselves that people are not having children or getting married and it is an incredibly lonely society where community, to what very little extent America ever had it to begin with when compared to the cultures of Africa or SE Asia, has disappeared.

Yet, what Globtrotter has said is also 100% true and people need to wake up and deal with that.

I figured out a ways back that, while the USA is clearly disintigrating as a civilization and it is scary in terms of the social issues we have, the issue is me.

If circumstances were different in my childhood and family, then I would not even notice these social issues and probably would be married now.

I am the one without a mulit-generational family because it was destroyed by a multi-generational pattern of neglect, abandonment, abuse, and especially adultery and divorce. If I had a multigeneraitonal family, I wouldn't think a bit about any of this stuff, would not be lonely, and would not have ever found this site, or considered anything related to it, and would likely have married a good woman years ago.

I am the one with an insecure attachment style because I was neglected and abused by my mother and abandoned by the father, like 10s of millions of other Americans these days raised in divorced families. I am the one with abandonment issues as a result, giving me a virtually non-existent thresh hold for dealing with rejection and break ups with the American women who are impossible to please mainly because I am in fact insecure, wounded, and so on as a result of my own background.

I am the one who, as a result, struggles with a deficient sense of social belonging and even struggles at work and is insecure in relationships (not a good thing to be with already masculine, domineering American woman.) In fact, I and every man I know from my kind of background is single because of it - they are too insecure to function normally in relationship.

I know American men who are well adjusted with loving American wives. Several in my own town here come to mind..... Every single one of these men comes from a solid multi-generational family and upbringing. I do not. The men I know who come from my kind of background are also all single. A bandaid can not be put on this by going to Europe, etc.

Now that's my story and it doesn't apply exactly to all, but I believe that all the guys on here, and many of the ones looking for foreign wives, are f***ed up somehow like me, coming from my kind of background in one form or another and I dare any of you to deny it. The 80% of American women looking for 20% of men - hey are looking for the 20% that is not all fu**ed up from that kind of background.

Sure the society is fu**ed BIG TIME. But what Globetrotter said is 100% spot on. Expats, and wanna be expats, (not all of them, but almost all) are maladjusted people and I got news for ya - I am absolutely certain that most of them wind up back in their home country in the long run, with even less socially to come back to than the almost nothing that they had when they expatriated.

My advice to anyone who wants to go abroad is 1) to go abroad with a purpose like worthwhile work or missionary travels, (NOOOOT just to find a woman or to have a social life), AND 2) have something to come back to in the USA!!!!!!

Otherwise, stay in your home country and make the best of life for yourself there because you will be better off in the long run.

And go get some counseling to deal with all the trauma and maladjustment that led you to want to flee your own society (even if it is the most fu**ed up society in regards to social issues).

And what the FU** are any of us doing on here interfacing so much with a Fu**ing glass screen for? Go out and spend time with your friend. If you don't have any, get to work on making some or being one to someone else.



globetrotter wrote:I am not being sarcastic.

Look, Winston. You need to stop thinking and proving yourself right, and you need to start living. Studies? Eh. More bullshit. Do or do not.

Stop talking about yourself all of the time. It's tedious.

In case you haven't figured it out yet, your personality *is* a far far out-lier within US society. Not normal to American norms, IOW. This is your reality. This is my assessment of your perception of your reality. You do not fit into the USA at all.

Some people who are outliers fit in. They are artists, musicians, actors, etc. They find a niche in a society that is not really for them. For you there is no such niche. So you moved. Good idea.

So your goal needs to be to find a solution.

-Whining isn't a solution.
-Repeatedly obsessing about why you are so terrific and other people are not, isn't a solution/
-Repeatedly looking for proof over and over and over and over that the USA is not for you, isn't a solution.

You know the USA is not for you.
You know the USA has social problems.

Ok. Fine.

This is established.

Move on and stop rehashing the same concepts over and over.

All of this paralysis by analysis is wasting precious seconds of life.

Do something. Stop thinking.

Geez.
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Postby vertical » Tue Dec 28, 2010 3:28 am

I lived with a big family for a while in Philippines. Not my family. My American friend and his wife, her brothers and sisters and a few unrelated people. It was a full house of people of all ages. It was like a new experience for me. I occasionally missed solitude, but on the whole it was a hell of a lot better that going days in a row without a single real world human contact, like my life in LA.


I know the feeling, living in a city by yourself and having 1 close friend that you saw at most once a week. It's quite depressing and lonely. In fact, in hindsight, I don't know why I lived that way. I would go overseas to Asia or Australia and come back and the isolation and loneliness would hit me instantly.
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Postby vertical » Tue Dec 28, 2010 3:30 am

In the mean time, all you need is money in the event of an emergency here in the states. It's sad, but, here in the states, you have to pay people to do things to you that they should do for free simply because they care.


I've felt this way for the longest time too. Money is the antidote in America. Don't have someone to talk to? Pay a psychiatrist. Don't have a ride to the airport? Get a taxi.
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Postby The_Adventurer » Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:53 am

ajushi wrote:Now that's my story and it doesn't apply exactly to all, but I believe that all the guys on here, and many of the ones looking for foreign wives, are f***ed up somehow like me, coming from my kind of background in one form or another and I dare any of you to deny it.


I'd have to deny it. My parents are in their 60's and 70's and still together. I grew up living in the same town as many relatives on both my father's and my mother's side of the family. We had huge family get togethers every holiday, and sometimes would get together just for BBQ. I will say, though, I think many black families from the south are not as fragmented or split as most of mainstream America.

I started dating Japanese women in college and saw a huge difference in how they related to men. That's what got me interested in foreign women. As for moving abroad to places like the Philippines, I will honestly say I don't want to work! Why should I waste my life away making someone else rich? This doesn't mean I don't want to do anything. I am a published author and animated film maker and I just want to do what I do, not give 8-5 to someone else's dream. I was making $2000-$3000 a month from a website while living in the Philippines and that was true freedom. Now it seems like I could do better with even less in China, and live a much much higher quality of life. Why slave alway to live in a $1000 USD a month shit hole in LA?! (not to mention how expensive everything else is)

Also, I draw in a very Japanese influenced style. I saw years ago, during my first tours in Asia, that I could sell more DVDs over here in a day than I could in a month in the US. I almost agree with you about "worthwhile work" being a goal for going overseas. But I don't like work. I make money doing the things I used to get in trouble for doing instead of school "work", meaning drawing comics and cartoons, which was considered play and a waste of time.
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Postby Winston » Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:35 am

ajushi wrote:Sure the society is fu**ed BIG TIME. But what Globetrotter said is 100% spot on. Expats, and wanna be expats, (not all of them, but almost all) are maladjusted people and I got news for ya - I am absolutely certain that most of them wind up back in their home country in the long run, with even less socially to come back to than the almost nothing that they had when they expatriated.

My advice to anyone who wants to go abroad is 1) to go abroad with a purpose like worthwhile work or missionary travels, (NOOOOT just to find a woman or to have a social life), AND 2) have something to come back to in the USA!!!!!!

Otherwise, stay in your home country and make the best of life for yourself there because you will be better off in the long run.

And go get some counseling to deal with all the trauma and maladjustment that led you to want to flee your own society (even if it is the most fu**ed up society in regards to social issues).

And what the FU** are any of us doing on here interfacing so much with a Fu**ing glass screen for? Go out and spend time with your friend. If you don't have any, get to work on making some or being one to someone else.


Wait, I'm not sure I understand your train of logic here. First, Globetrotter didn't say that most expats wind up going back home. He didn't say that they were to blame either. He simply said they didn't fit in. No blame is necessary about that.

Second, even if most expats do end up going back home, so what? Isn't it better to be happy and go somewhere for a while, even if it's temporary (isn't everything temporary anyway, so what's your point?) than to be unhappy and never experience happiness? Just because something is temporary doesn't mean it should not be experienced at all, nor does it mean that it should be deemed pointless. Life is always changing and everything is temporary. So what's the point of that argument?

If I take a wonderful backpacking trip with many enriching experiences that I wouldn't trade for the world, does the fact that it was a temporary experience invalidate it? What is your train of logic on that?

Aren't experiences the spice of life?

What's wrong with going abroad to find a woman or social life? It's important isn't it? Why can't it be a reason?

Like I said, I can get jobs in the US and make a life there, but it would be lonely and devoid of fun, sex, love, romance, meaningful experiences, connection, etc. I'd just have polite superficial relationships with coworkers and go to walmart, and that's all. No one would get close to me. I'd be expected to mind my own business, like everyone else, and not complain about it. And girls would make excuses if I asked them out.

Is that what you suggest, just cause it's better for my long term life? What's the point of life if you're not happy, even if you have a stable life?

What's the point of getting counseling? A counselor is not trained to give you advice. They are trained to give you coping skills. They cannot solve problems. They cannot change things for you. They cannot give you love, acceptance or companionship. They can give you an ear to listen to yeah. But how will that solve anything? In the end, they would only tell you to "go abroad if that makes you happier" so we are back at square one again, which is to GO ABROAD.

So what would that accomplish? I don't get your point.

In fact, that's what my counselor, Jack Duffy of Bellingham, WA said. He said, "Well if you are happier abroad, then what are you doing here?" I replied, "Cause people online told me to solve my problems at home first before going abroad, and they said I should get counseling, so I'm here." So you see, following the advice of people online would lead to a dead end in this case.

Furthermore, a counselor might even try to get you to blame yourself and tell you that the problem is YOU, not society, which of course would accomplish nothing. Improving yourself isn't going to solve the huge dysfunctions in US society and social culture and women, especially if you are not the "dating type" of most women nor have the status they want. But even if you were to take all the many great arguments from this site and convince your counselor that the problem was society and not you, it would just come back to the same bottom line. He/she would say, "Ok you are right. Your arguments make sense. The problem isn't you. It's society. So what are you doing here then? You are better off going abroad." and thus we are back to square one again! (I've been through this many times with people)

So you see, it all comes back to the same bottom line again. So what would going to a counselor accomplish?
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Postby ijohn » Tue Dec 28, 2010 11:14 am

I don't think that most people feel unwanted and unloved. Most people in America are native born and raised. They do not know any other culture and cannot relate to it except for occasional culinary experience. So, the world to them is America and America is the world. They know the rules and how ( American) people are, and early on in life they make friends, socialize, get into different cliques, clubs, learn to become assertive and establish networks, get to know people in a fake way perhaps but they do OK.

Also, American people are taught to be independent financially and emotionally and do not have such an interdependence as say, Filipinos, for the most part. They are used to being alone and are taught to enjoy it. They do not suffer from loneliness the way Sahara Bedouines do not suffer from heat. Desert is their home.


This is very true. The bedu in the desert feels the heat but does not think it is 'wrong'. He makes no judgement about it. It is home and it is how everything should be. Most people around the world are like that.

Still there are some basic needs that human beings have that they must have addressed in order to feel complete. When a culture does not provide these most people might feel something is wrong but don't want to devote time and energy to figuring out what. They just stoically accepting their underlying discontent or it manifests in other ways. Some are moved to understand it and do something about it, if they can. If you are feeling isolated in America you might seek to go somewhere else, if you are struggling for your basic needs in a slum somewhere you will moved to migrate somewhere else, perhaps america.

But this longing to be loved that seems to be expressed in this thread it might go deeper. In mediaval terms it would be expressed as being thirsty for the divine. In modern psychology it would be termed as a thirst for individuation, for self-knowledge and the experience of wholeness. Only a few people have it enough to want to devote any resources towards it. Usually people who are very sensitive, people who have the psychology of being pleasers, people who feel the need to be special. This need can be a handicap if it forces you to go in directions that are harmful to you.

Often the need is felt acutely in the form of an overworking sex drive - one that can never really be satisfied. Sex can be a starting point of 'union' but the tantrics and taoists will tell you it can never be the end, if you make it the end you will only ruin yourself. You can never find that perfect union with any person outside of you. It is inner work, that union has to be within.
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Postby ijohn » Tue Dec 28, 2010 11:39 am

There is some truth to the family issue though. Before our adolescence we are shaped by our parents and our upbringing. There is a strong instinct to repeat our parents patterns. Most of us learn through conditioning. There is a strong instinctual fear to leave our parents patterns no matter how destructive they might be. If our source family patterns have been damaged or we find their ways uncomfortable we have to learn how to make new ones. This is very difficult for most people and brings with it its own sets of anxieties and problems. It can feel at least initially like entering an open space without any guides or rules.

One of the popular misconceptions of our time is that we need this open space; in this open space anything is possible; since anything is possible something glorious must happen and we must hold out for it and it is better than the old way. Of course this is not true. Anything is not possible, we are still limited by our natures and other things.

My advice to anyone who wants to go abroad is 1) to go abroad with a purpose like worthwhile work,


This is actually good advice. If things arent going well for you, or you feel lost and confused or isolated why sit around rotting away? Why not use your time to help others? There are a billion people in the world who live on less than a dollar a day. They could use your time and care. You may or may not have all of your personal needs met by doing so, whatever you imagine, your fancy lifestyle, your many girlfriends but you will have the infinite satisfaction of knowing you did something worthwhile. You might be surprised.
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Jack Duffy, Counselor and Zen Teacher, denies our claims!

Postby Winston » Tue Dec 28, 2010 2:24 pm

Winston wrote:What's the point of getting counseling? A counselor is not trained to give you advice. They are trained to give you coping skills. They cannot solve problems. They cannot change things for you. They cannot give you love, acceptance or companionship. They can give you an ear to listen to yeah. But how will that solve anything? In the end, they would only tell you to "go abroad if that makes you happier" so we are back at square one again, which is to GO ABROAD.

So what would that accomplish? I don't get your point.

In fact, that's what my counselor, Jack Duffy of Bellingham, WA said. He said, "Well if you are happier abroad, then what are you doing here?" I replied, "Cause people online told me to solve my problems at home first before going abroad, and they said I should get counseling, so I'm here." So you see, following the advice of people online would lead to a dead end in this case.

Furthermore, a counselor might even try to get you to blame yourself and tell you that the problem is YOU, not society, which of course would accomplish nothing. Improving yourself isn't going to solve the huge dysfunctions in US society and social culture and women, especially if you are not the "dating type" of most women nor have the status they want. But even if you were to take all the many great arguments from this site and convince your counselor that the problem was society and not you, it would just come back to the same bottom line. He/she would say, "Ok you are right. Your arguments make sense. The problem isn't you. It's society. So what are you doing here then? You are better off going abroad." and thus we are back to square one again! (I've been through this many times with people)

So you see, it all comes back to the same bottom line again. So what would going to a counselor accomplish?


I found my former ignorant counselor Jack Duffy of Bellingham WA, the one who denies our claims about overseas cultures and foreign women, online. Apparently he is a Zen meditation teacher. My gosh. How can a Zen teacher be so closed minded and denialist? He is the mental health counselor I told you about in Bellingham, WA who denied that people are friendlier and more inclusive overseas, that foreign women are more approachable, and that Americans are anti-social. Even though I brought two huge photo albums with hundreds of photos of me and girls in Russia to prove my claims, he denied it all and looked at them with disgust. According to him, all immigrants he's met in America, including Europeans, consider America to be more open and friendly than in their home countries! How can a Zen teacher be so opinionated and dense?

Furthermore, he teaches self-blame (I think) by telling you to say "I feel Americans are anti-social" rather than "Americans are anti-social" and will argue with me about it if I don't use this "me" language. I'm not sure what school of psychology that is based on, but I will email him and invite him to clarify himself here. I will also email him and ask him to explain all the testimonies, photos, videos and comparison charts on this site. If he responds (which he probably won't) I will let you know. lol

Anyway, here are his photos and bios on various sites:

http://sweepingzen.com/2009/12/23/jack-duffy-bio/

Image

Jack Duffy is a Zen teacher in Washington state practicing in the Harada-Yasutani lineage, a dharma heir of Robert Aitken-roshi. As a leader of the Zen Center of Spokane and the Three Treasures Sangha of the Pacific Northwest, Duffy first began practice with Aitken-roshi in 1981 and received permission to teach from him in 1992. Five years later, he was given the title Roshi and underwent Dharma transmission. Duffy has also studied with other masters, including Thich Nhat Hanh and Joan Riek. He brings his roles of spouse, father, and psychotherapist, as well as years of endangered species work and wilderness wanderings, to his teaching.

At home near Bellingham, Washington, Jack leads retreats in the Spokane area twice a year, as well as a week-long sesshin on the Olympic Peninsula near Seattle each April and November.


http://www.zencenterspokane.org/teacher.htm

Image

Jack Duffy

Image

Robert Aitken and Jack Duffy

Our Teacher

Jack Duffy....

was given permission to teach by Robert Aitken, Roshi in January, 1992, and was given independent teaching status and the title of Roshi in the formal Transmission Ceremony 5 years later. Jack has been a student of Aitken Roshi since 1981 and has studied with other teachers, including Joan Rieck and Thich Nhat Hanh.

He brings his roles of spouse, father and psychotherapist as well as years of endangered species work and wilderness wanderings to his teaching.
Last edited by Winston on Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Check out the latest posts in our blog The Happier Abroaders.

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"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World
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Postby globetrotter » Tue Dec 28, 2010 2:55 pm

Winston wrote:They can give you an ear to listen to yeah. But how will that solve anything? In the end, they would only tell you to "go abroad if that makes you happier" so we are back at square one again, which is to GO ABROAD.

So what would that accomplish? I don't get your point.


His point is that 60% of all who expat become Rejectors and have to return home and that their social maladaptedness will still need to be dealt with.

The expats that I meet from America who are young are 90% misfits and socially maladjusted. Most drink to excess and stay in an expat 'bubble'. No local food, no local language, no local music.

Even those from other nations are 'off' and it's clear as can be.

It's best to go with a plan in mind.

For instance my plan is to seek out places that are low stress, to work and retire in. Some place with lots of available work that has a preference for my skill set, age and nationality.
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