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Is this guy a big picture thinker or what?

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You guys are the ones who don't see the big picture

Postby icarus » Thu Apr 09, 2009 3:52 pm

I'm not saying that those guys can't find success abroad (I have a foreign GF myself), but you guys are oversimplifying matters by claiming that simply going abroad is the solution. I believe that most woman around the world essentially want the same thing from men: they want to him to be a MAN- not a weak overly accommodating doormat that would constantly follow her around like a needy puppy. Unfortunately, for the reasons I've mentioned above, too many American men have gotten the wrong message from the media and they end up acting this way.

There's nothing wrong with being a decent guy, with a good job and security-- but what sets you apart from any of the other MILLIONS of guys just like you who are boring as hell and don't create any tension or pique a woman's curiosity and interest? You have to stand out from dozens of other guys that any woman has approach her during the week. Furthermore, many of the skills that the PUAs teach are applicable in many other aspects of life. It's not hard to imagine all of the different scenarios where having increased charm, wittiness and confidence would pay off.

I've also known two divorced MOB's from Eastern Europe in real life, and talked with a couple more online. Their stories were not exactly the same of course, but one common refrain I kept hearing was something like: At first I thought my American husband was so kind and sweet, not like the uneducated drunken neanderthal men of my home country. But after a while I started to resent him because he was such an indecisive pansy and a total pushover. At least the men back home were real MEN and not wussbags.

If you are just another spineless "Nice Guy" who thinks that he ONLY needs to change his geographic location, then you may very well be headed in the same direction as the ex-husbands of these ladies. Remember many of these women come from countries where life is difficult which requires a stronger will than living in comfort in suburbia. They are strong so you must be to. Think about that before making charges of irrationality. :roll:
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Postby The_Adventurer » Fri Apr 10, 2009 3:04 am

We're oversimplifying things?! In your post a guy is either a REAL MAN or a weak, accomodating doormat, pansy, wussbag, pushover. Nothing inbetween? You're either an alpha male or total loser? You're a nasty jerk a-hole who gets all the p***y, or you're a geek masturbating in your parent's basement. Read your own post!

Of course no one really believes that, but that is the world these PUA books and shows paint. They WANT people to believe this because it feeds into their SYSTEM.

You may have to jump through hoops to stand out from millions of other dudes in a country where the ratio of men to women is 3 to 1, and overweight "princesses" are being hit on many times per day. BUT you do not have to do so in a country where women outnumber men 9 to 1 and the women are assertive in going after the guy they want. LOCATION is the solution.

I WILL agree that American femenist media has done everything in her power to emasculate men, and has created a large class of effeminate pushovers. I would dare say there's a place for them too. I met many girls in Japan and Korea who like that shit.

Be who you really are. Stay out of places you ain't wanted, and stop trying to love others who don't love you.
“b***y is so strong that there are dudes willing to blow themselves up for the highly unlikely possibility of b***y in another dimension." -- Joe Rogan
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Calm down

Postby icarus » Fri Apr 10, 2009 12:15 pm

I never meant to imply that it was a black and white scenario with American men. I only mean to say that going abroad isn't the silver bullet that many people think it will be. Yeah, if you ask any one person they will deny thinking that way, and maybe 'silver bullet' is an exaggeration, but many guy nonetheless have an oversimplified view and naive expectations. Not every American guy is a doormat, but more than a few of them will be the kind of guy to seek their love abroad.

As for the PUA's I don't deny that they are out to make money with their $2,000 seminars and endless supply of new systems for using body language, jokes, or picking up topless dancers. But let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. I've never paid one red cent for any of their products. I have seen plenty of free videos on google and youtube, and subscribed to many of their email newsletters. (I can't lie- an online friend may have sent me some pirated material once or twice 8)) Each guru is different, but when you notice that some basic fundamental principles are echoed by all of them, you start to take those to heart. Whatever you do in life, it always starts with you-- so the having the ability to detect problematic women (i.e. potential psychos and money grubbers), and then the confidence and self-respect to kick them aside is even more important when you go abroad.

I know this quote from Mr. S. struck a chord with me: Just a warning: foreign woman may be overall better than western, but there are just as plenty mentally unstable ones overseas as well.
http://www.happierabroad.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5898
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Re: Is this guy a big picture thinker or what?

Postby Winston » Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:20 am

gmm567 wrote:So, single men without choices are essentially left powerless. Now what can be done? Well conventional common suggestions for these men range from working on/improving oneself, to joining clubs/extracurricular activities, to improving their social skills, to the dreaded "you'll find someone someday, don't worry" and even to learning from dating gurus and seduction/pick up artists. But these don't usually work, or rarely if they do. They may help you to meet a few more people and develop superficial aquaintances. But they are not going to get you more CHOICES among quality attractive single women that you desire. Get real!

You see, such cliched suggestions do not address the heart of the problem - the gross inequities, conditions and obstacles in the US dating market, which are too numerous to even count. There are so many screwed up conditions some of which don't even make any sense - inconsistencies in female behavior, stupid games, contradictions in what women want, unrealistic female delusions and entitlements, bad selfish attitudes, mental and psychological problems, insanity, cultural problems, shallowness and superficial attitudes, corruption in values, degradation of men and traditional gender roles, feminist hatred of males, the isolation lifestyle, paranoia, racism against nonwhite males, etc. etc. and the list goes on and on. Now do you really think that simply being more proactive in your community and life or learning social techniques is going to remedy all that?! Not on your life! (especially if you don't have status, looks, wealth, fame, height, race, etc. going for you)


W: You are quoting from my site introduction page and forgot to reference it. I'll edit your post so it can be properly referenced.
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Re: Is this guy a big picture thinker or what?

Postby Winston » Mon Apr 13, 2009 7:23 am

momopi wrote:
gmm567 wrote:So, single men without choices are essentially left powerless. Now what can be done? Well conventional common suggestions for these men range from working on/improving oneself, to joining clubs/extracurricular activities, to improving their social skills, to the dreaded "you'll find someone someday, don't worry" and even to learning from dating gurus and seduction/pick up artists. But these don't usually work, or rarely if they do. They may help you to meet a few more people and develop superficial aquaintances. But they are not going to get you more CHOICES among quality attractive single women that you desire. Get real!


There's a concept called self fulfilling prophecy. If the man feels that nothing he does in terms of personal improvement will help, then he'd remain in his current undesirabe status.

An investment in yourself is always a good investment. Education broadens the mind and improves career opportunities. Physical exercise improves health and logivity. A finacially rewarding career, business, or investment will give you the means to afford an attractive lifestyle at home or abroad. If you do choose to go abroad, higher socio-economic status wll also grant you better access to women in middle class or better in many countries.

Many men complain about why the "average" male cannot get ahead. First, they should ask themselves how attractive an average or plain looking women is to them. Second, they need to stop making excuses for themselves or blame other people. Asian American men complaining about discrmination today have no clue what real, systematic discriminaton was like under US Anti-Miscegenation laws from 1850-1967, when sex between Asians and Whites was a felony.


W: There is a concept called a self fulfilling prophecy. But there is also one called a victim blaming mentality. It takes wisdom and discernment to distinguish between them. The latter though, has not been given as much attention in psychology for some reason.

Basically, if you complain about something, there are people out there who will say that your complaining attitude is the cause of it, as a copout in order to discredit you. So if you complain about not getting dates and they say that, then in a sense, what they are saying is that without ever getting rejected from women you BEGAN with the attitude that you would get rejected. That is totally false. Yet there are some who insinuate just that! No one who gets dates and is popular with women complains that they don't get dates offhand. Only those who have had a prevailing pattern of not getting dates begin to complain about it.

Thus, this argument is not logical. But then again, humans tend to be emotional, not logical, that's why advertising works.

But of course, if you complain about something, it can make it worse in that it makes you less desirable, but the point is that it is NOT the root cause of the problem in the FIRST PLACE.

That being said, there is nothing wrong with improving oneself, but it is unrealistic to assume that doing so automatically gets you everything you want and turns your dating life around. That is overly simplistic and a fallacy. You have to look at multiple factors.

For example, on Dateline NBC during a report about dating, they interviewed a group of American women about whom they would date. When they showed them a short guy 5ft 4 who made a lot of money, had a great career, and was a gourmet chef, most of the women in the group said they still wouldn't date him because he didn't fit their height requirement.

So you see, even though that guy had many ideal qualities for a woman, his height ruled him out. Race can also rule you out as well. You have to take into account all these real factors as well, not just make blanket statements about improving yourself to get what you want.

Sure, improving oneself will up your odds, but it may not get exactly what you want. For those of us whom that may be the case, Global Dating or some other venue may be the answer. Sometimes, extreme situations require extreme measures, and some of these measures may be unconventional or outside the box or even impractical. But hey, if they work, that's what counts isn't it?

Sometimes, what's not practical ends up working at least in the short term.

The point is, these issues should be seen on a multi-factor level, not on a one dimensional level. That's how you open your mind and see the big picture and be objective about it. That's the true path to objectivity :)
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Re: Is this guy a big picture thinker or what?

Postby Winston » Mon Apr 13, 2009 7:26 am

adam917 wrote:
momopi wrote:
gmm567 wrote:So, single men without choices are essentially left powerless. Now what can be done? Well conventional common suggestions for these men range from working on/improving oneself, to joining clubs/extracurricular activities, to improving their social skills, to the dreaded "you'll find someone someday, don't worry" and even to learning from dating gurus and seduction/pick up artists. But these don't usually work, or rarely if they do. They may help you to meet a few more people and develop superficial aquaintances. But they are not going to get you more CHOICES among quality attractive single women that you desire. Get real!


There's a concept called self fulfilling prophecy. If the man feels that nothing he does in terms of personal improvement will help, then he'd remain in his current undesirabe status.

An investment in yourself is always a good investment. Education broadens the mind and improves career opportunities. Physical exercise improves health and logivity. A finacially rewarding career, business, or investment will give you the means to afford an attractive lifestyle at home or abroad. If you do choose to go abroad, higher socio-economic status wll also grant you better access to women in middle class or better in many countries.

Many men complain about why the "average" male cannot get ahead. First, they should ask themselves how attractive an average or plain looking women is to them. Second, they need to stop making excuses for themselves or blame other people. Asian American men complaining about discrmination today have no clue what real, systematic discriminaton was like under US Anti-Miscegenation laws from 1850-1967, when sex between Asians and Whites was a felony.


Question about your last part: Does it really matter in 2009 whether it's officially on the books or not? Discrimination and related activities still exists in the population whether it's law or not. That is precisely what this site is about. Bottom line is people still get treated differently no matter the official position on various matters and the problem starts when the basis of this isn't rational, like skin colour, national origin, or ethnic background. Until we can eliminate this from human behaviour or at least get very used to the multitude of differences in people the world over, I'd have to say we as a species aren't exactly civilised just yet. This is one nice thing about virtual communication that is very hard to achieve IRL - since you often can't see and hear the person you're chatting with, you can't judge them much.


W: True, and I would add that when you outlaw something, it becomes more attractive to some people, esp those who love to transgress. lol So outlawing sex between whites and asians may actually help asians. lol

If these laws were really enforced then how come the Chinese hookers in the 19th century Old West were allowed to service Americans on the frontier?
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Postby Winston » Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:20 am

momopi wrote:
gmm567 wrote:Improve yourself dude...see how much that works for you and then get back to me.


Worked pretty well for me. My education gave me a financially rewarding career for the last 15 years, it provided the means for me to visit/vacation in 8 or 9 countries abroad. Canada, Mexico, Japan, Taiwan, China, Malaysia, Singapore, Philippines, etc I took my ex-GF to Beijing to climb the Great Wall of China couple years back and eat BBQ duck at wangfujing.

I'm in Taiwan right now and the locals value education. My master's degree scores points with women and their friends and family. When I visit girls I get great hospitality, the parents take me out to eat and gives me gifts of local produce when I leave. The two years in grad school was time well spent.

However, I should also note that I look for middle class or better girls with good family and education background. My values and goals may differ from others here, and the girls I chase in US and abroad are usually not easy lays. If a man is lookng for equick & easy sex with sexy women in "come f*ck me" shoes, then he is looking for a different target or market segment.


W: From hanging out with Momopi and meeting some of his dates and female friends, I can definitely vouch that he goes for different types of women than I have and plays a different type of game with different rules. Thus I can shed some light on this to help give you all a broader perspective.

At this point in his life, he is dating Asian women both in the US and Taiwan that are not the type that me and most of the guys on this forum go for. Plus they are from a different culture with different social rules and styles that do not fit into what I describe on this site about foreign dating.

For example, as you know, my style is direct and upfront, as you saw in my videos. I like to chat up women in public and tell them "Excuse me, you're very attractive. I'd like to meet you." That approach works well in Russia and much of Europe, as I claimed long ago, because it fits into the culture there. In those countries, the society is more open, direct and upfront, and there is more of an "anything goes" type of attitude than there is in conservative countries. And likewise, it works well in the Philippines too.

But not in Taiwan, Japan, Hong Kong or Singapore, where the values are much more conservative and people are more picky. There, women do not like direct approach styles. That is considered rude, out of tune, out of vibe, and not part of the flow of things.

Also, they do not meet a man and automatically put them in the "dating" or "friends category". They put ALL men they meet into the friends category first, and then evaluate them from there, slowly on. That is their custom and they do this without thinking about it. Plus, many women in those countries are simply not outgoing with men and don't like meeting them, only with other women.

In other words, it's not exactly an "open culture". Taiwanese people will admit to this and some are proud to not be open, because that is not considered a good or positive trait to them.

Nevertheless, to be successful in different countries, one has to learn to ADAPT. And momopi explained to me by email the proper way to approach women in Taiwan that fits into their social style. When I tried it, it worked, even though it didn't exactly get the results I wanted. But it worked in getting them to open up and establish an acquaintance with them, in a more "natural way".

Here is what he taught me in a nutshell:

First, you ask an innocent question such as directions, a good place to eat or visit, etc. Then you ask a few follow up open ended questions (not yes or no ones) and then gauge their response. If they are interested in getting to know you, they will in turn ask you a few questions of their own, such as where you're from, how long you've been here, why you're here, etc. If not, and they just brush you off, then you move on to the next one. Then you when you discover what you have in common, you can then focus on those areas and expand them. In momopi's case, he likes talking about food, cooking and culinary arts, which many Taiwanese women like as well. And with his vast knowledge in that area, he is able to impress a lot of Asian women who are into that. So it not only earns him points with them, but develops a natural comfort zone and friendship basis as well. And since he is well educated, a professional, and has a solid career, they like that as well since the Chinese value practical things and judge people by them. They use a meritocracy system in evaluating others. Anyhow, this allows you to create a good rapport or good mood and energy with them. Once that develops they get closer to you by online chat over months and eventually the dates come naturally.

Of course, you have to have a lot of patience to pursue this type of process. But the point is, it's momopi's style and it's the Taiwanese women's style as well. And it fits into their culture. That's why it works for him.

But as for me, it's not my natural style. But when I use it, I do get them to open up more naturally within their comfort zone. So I guess in a sense, it's a form of Zen in that this approach fits into naturally within the flow of things in Taiwan, and thus is more effective since you are flowing within the current rather than trying to fight it.

Also, so far the types of Taiwanese women I've gotten along with tend to be open minded traveler types like me, not the mainstream types.

So in conclusion, I'd have to say that though this approach works more here, it doesn't necessarily get me what I want, at least not right away. Plus, Chinese women tend to be more picky about little things, esp compared to Filipinas, so I might not measure up in a lot of ways, since I do not do well in a meritocracy system in a first or second world country. TW women do not live for the moment and follow their whims or enjoy dating lots of guys for fun. They usually only date those whom they are interested in marrying eventually.

The bottom line is that it's not an easy system with fast results and fast lays. So it isn't going to provide what me and a lot of guys like me want, which is action with lots of hot women in a short amount of time. For that, there are other countries that are better.

But momopi isn't looking for that, as he explained. He himself is more picky than me, and does not go for any hot looking girls with nice legs like I do.

Some people are more like him, and others are more like me. People are different.

But he is happy with his style and results, so that's what matters to him. If this isn't your style, then what he says probably won't apply to you. Momopi is a very practical person who makes sense, but not necessarily open minded toward those who are different or think differently. He seeks to offer practical solutions, not to delve into the minds of others or try to understand them like a psychologist or philosopher does.

So I think you should take all this into account when trying to understand where he's coming from, and where I'm coming from, so that you see the big picture and understand the differences. Like I said before, you gotta see the multiple factors involved, not just a blanket statement or theory that applies to everything.
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Postby Winston » Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:29 am

momopi wrote:
gmm567 wrote:ok mopi. Doesn't look like you're banging american girls either. So what's your point? And did you read the section I copied in the beginning? That was about american woman.

You just had to get in a comment, right?


Do Asian American women count? Yes I do sleep with them in the US in 2009. Choices are bigger abroad, of course.

Ths is a discussion forum where people post their comments. You said something I don't like, and I said something you don't like. You and I do not have to agree with each other. I strongly disagree with your opinion that working to improve one's self would only enable you to " meet a few more people and develop superficial aquantances". That's like telling people to just stay losers. If I had a son, I'd teach him to be taller, faster, and better than his peers. All this "I hate American women" crap is just old.


W: He was actually quoting me from my introduction to this site at http://www.happierabroad.com/introduction.php

Therefore, it was I who wrote that. I was just basing it on my own experience. I have not found that improving myself has led to any big results in the dating field. For example, when I had a professional level job, or was dressed in a suit, or was involved in yoga, swing dancing, cooking, etc. I noticed that I'd get more respect from others, but it didn't turn around my dating life. Those are the facts and I'm being honest about it. I have met more people and developed more superficial acquaintances by being involved with things, but I haven't gotten hot girls from it.

You also gotta understand that in America, I was pursuing attractive white women who wanted tall white men, so that no matter what qualities or credentials I had, I was already automatically ruled out of their "type range" based on my race and height. And that's why my efforts to improve myself didn't get anywhere with them.

Also, people in Washington state tend to like to be alone and have a strong isolation mentality rather than being with others, so that played a factor as well.

But I never said that one should not try to improve oneself. Of course you should make improvements in your life for your health, self esteem, and future. I'm just saying that it's not an answer to every man's dating problem and it's unrealistic to expect that it is the answer to all your dating problems. That was my point.

Things must be seen in their proper perspective.
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Re: You guys are the ones who don't see the big picture

Postby Winston » Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:44 am

icarus wrote:I'm not saying that those guys can't find success abroad (I have a foreign GF myself), but you guys are oversimplifying matters by claiming that simply going abroad is the solution. I believe that most woman around the world essentially want the same thing from men: they want to him to be a MAN- not a weak overly accommodating doormat that would constantly follow her around like a needy puppy. Unfortunately, for the reasons I've mentioned above, too many American men have gotten the wrong message from the media and they end up acting this way.

There's nothing wrong with being a decent guy, with a good job and security-- but what sets you apart from any of the other MILLIONS of guys just like you who are boring as hell and don't create any tension or pique a woman's curiosity and interest? You have to stand out from dozens of other guys that any woman has approach her during the week. Furthermore, many of the skills that the PUAs teach are applicable in many other aspects of life. It's not hard to imagine all of the different scenarios where having increased charm, wittiness and confidence would pay off.

I've also known two divorced MOB's from Eastern Europe in real life, and talked with a couple more online. Their stories were not exactly the same of course, but one common refrain I kept hearing was something like: At first I thought my American husband was so kind and sweet, not like the uneducated drunken neanderthal men of my home country. But after a while I started to resent him because he was such an indecisive pansy and a total pushover. At least the men back home were real MEN and not wussbags.

If you are just another spineless "Nice Guy" who thinks that he ONLY needs to change his geographic location, then you may very well be headed in the same direction as the ex-husbands of these ladies. Remember many of these women come from countries where life is difficult which requires a stronger will than living in comfort in suburbia. They are strong so you must be to. Think about that before making charges of irrationality. :roll:


W: Icarus, you are wrong. Going abroad IS a SOLUTION that has worked for many. There are so many testimonials that attest to it, for example here:

http://www.happierabroad.com/ebook/Page74b.htm

I have many more to add to that list too.

I never said that a person should not improve themselves though. Of course they should. It's best for them and others if they do, so they can set a shining example to others as well. What we are saying here is that improving yourself by itself is not the silver bullet that will change your dating life completely 180 in the US.

You say that men should not be boring wusses. I think you've been reading too much David Deangelo, who is a wuss himself and has no proof to back up anything he says and does not answer a lot of questions that refute him. He is all talk and marketing.

Most men are something in between an alpha male and a loser. They are tough when they need to be, and nice when it's appropriate to be nice, but they do not try to always be "challenging" or "exciting" to women to keep their interest. It's all about chemistry. Not every woman wants an exciting guy. If the woman herself is boring, then she will not be seeking an exciting guy. It depends on the culture and the person. Some women, like simple ones, only care about practical things. Others have different standards. You have to look at the individual and the culture as well. Some just want a guy they feel a natural rapport and comfort zone with, or even a "soulmate" or kindred spirit.

The cocky funny type is not liked by all women. That is a PUA myth. People who know women really well and are well traveled know that things are much more complicated than the cocky and funny = attraction BS.

Now that being said, I never said that going abroad was the solution for EVERYONE. There is no one system or method that works or is right for everyone! I said that in my interview with Steve Hoca too. But it works for A LOT OF MEN. And for those like me, it IS the only solution for what we want. But for everyone? No, no one is claiming that.
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Postby Winston » Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:56 am

swincor wrote:This was exactly what Winston did not seem to grasp: as a man, you still have to be strong with a woman -- even a well-mannered, foreign woman. Because feminine behavior depends largely on male supervision and discipline of women. Changing your geographic location helps of course, but it isn't the magic cure-all.

Winston talks of how feminism has worsened American women. But he again doesn't seem to understand that improving female behavior requires more than just the absence of feminism. It also requires men setting and enforcing rules of good behavior, and making sure that women behave properly. Yes, feminism is real and destructive, and it has poisoned relations between the sexes in America. But what happens when you move to a poor country like the Philippines, where feminism is effectively non-existent? Is that the end of female mis-behavior? Well, take a look at Winston's situation and decide for yourself.

Winston is basically lazy in his approach to solutions, i.e., go to a poor country where feminism isn't an issue, hook up with a local girl, and you can act like a spineless wimp or a p***y all you like. Hell, you can even knock her up too while you're at it -- after all, child support there is only a fraction of what you'd pay in the US (assuming you don't bail on them and do choose to provide support).


W: Uh I don't think so swincor. I am strong with women. I do not take shit from them. Do you think I do whatever Dianne wants and never object to anything she does? HELL NO!

Dude! Do you hear me complaining on this forum? Well that's how I complain in real life. If I don't like something, I DO something about it! I always have. That's not strength to you? Then what is?

Can you define what "strong" is to you? Can you give some examples? There are different types of strength, direct, subtle, personality wise, etc. Are you talking aggression? Being firm? Having a Zen like quality that is always in balance and nonattachment, like Caine in the Kung Fu series? Or what? You gotta be specific here rather than just painting a false label on me and calling me weak with no evidence. I have no respect for that.

Everyone knows I'm a fighter, both online and offline. I fight for what I believe! How is that being weak to you?

So how am I being a p***y and letting everyone win and walk all over me? Dianne knows that if I give her money and she wastes it, I'll throw a fit, so she tries her best not to waste it. I do have control over our relationship too. After all, I am the one with the resources.

Is it always fair? No. But I do what I can to play strong and fair.

A weak man would run away and disappear or just do whatever women tell him to do. Do I do that? NO f***ing WAY!

A strong man does not let you get away with lying about him on his forum. A weak man does not dare to correct lies about him. Do I do that? Of course not!

So what the f**k are you talking about Swincor? As usual, you're not making any sense and saying the opposite of the truth! Are you f***ing stoned?
Check out the latest posts in our blog The Happier Abroaders.

Don't forget my HA Grand Ebook and Dating Sites!

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World
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Re: You guys are the ones who don't see the big picture

Postby icarus » Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:58 am

WWu777 wrote:W: Icarus, you are wrong. Going abroad IS a SOLUTION that has worked for many. There are so many testimonials that attest to it, for example here:


Winston my point is simply that if you go abroad while taking the same unattractive needy behavior, you may find short-term success and get further than you could with American women, but your behavior may prevent you from getting long term success. As for the PUA's like David DeAngelo, he may be everything that he lectures against, but it doesn't necessarily diminish the truth of his message. Like any other product that is mass marketed, there are always nuggets of truth in between all of the hype and puffery.

As for a self-fulfilling prophecy you are correct than it doesn't apply to all situations; e.g., the 5'4" guy. However, you did recognize the existence of self-fulfilling prophecies, so why you think it could never apply in dating is pretty baffling. Believe it or not, there are good-looking guys who have no luck with women and who keep themselves in a vicious circle by telling themselves that they will never have any luck.
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Re: You guys are the ones who don't see the big picture

Postby Winston » Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:11 pm

icarus wrote:
WWu777 wrote:W: Icarus, you are wrong. Going abroad IS a SOLUTION that has worked for many. There are so many testimonials that attest to it, for example here:


Winston my point is simply that if you go abroad while taking the same unattractive needy behavior, you may find short-term success and get further than you could with American women, but your behavior may prevent you from getting long term success. As for the PUA's like David DeAngelo, he may be everything that he lectures against, but it doesn't necessarily diminish the truth of his message. Like any other product that is mass marketed, there are always nuggets of truth in between all of the hype and puffery.

As for a self-fulfilling prophecy you are correct than it doesn't apply to all situations; e.g., the 5'4" guy. However, you did recognize the existence of self-fulfilling prophecies, so why you think it could never apply in dating is pretty baffling. Believe it or not, there are good-looking guys who have no luck with women and who keep themselves in a vicious circle by telling themselves that they will never have any luck.


W: Well you again fail to see the big picture. When I'm in the Philippines, I do NOT have a "needy behavior" because I have so many girls and sex partners that I no longer act "needy". Acting needy is often brought about by the conditions of the dating field. It is not a conscious choice for no reason.

Besides, if you understood women and psychology, you would know that women usually use the "he's too needy and needs to grow up" on guys they aren't attracted to as an excuse to turn him down. If a guy they loved were needy toward them, they would say "Awww how cute! I love when my man is needy. It shows that he really loves me!"

Sure there are nuggets of truth in everything. And a self fulfilling prophecy exists. No one is claiming it doesn't. But some people use it as an excuse or lazy copout to discredit anyone who complains, no matter how legit their complaint is. It certainly doesn't explain my situation. It's too simplistic, is what I'm saying.
Check out the latest posts in our blog The Happier Abroaders.

Don't forget my HA Grand Ebook and Dating Sites!

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World
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Postby Winston » Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:13 pm

swincor wrote:No, I'm quite drug free. Despite what you just claimed above, you have in fact taken a lot of shit from Dianne and her family. This is well documented here, directly from your own accounts.

So WTF am I talking about? I'm talking about the numerous accounts from you of Diane's out of control behavior. I'm talking about the abuse Diane inflicts upon you, emotionally and physically, and your seeming inability or unwillingness to put a halt to it.

I'm talking about the way you scoffed at the suggestion that you place yourself in a dominant position over Dianne and set firm ground rules for her to follow. I'm talking about your pathetic wishy-washiness in not knowing whether to be a pushover or a hard ass in dealing with Dianne's (and her family's) out of control behavior. There's really too much to go into detail here, and any one can easily find your posts and read them from the rant section of the forum. I will only say that what you have written in the past about Dianne's behavior towards you directly contradicts your claims above about having control of your relationship with her.


W: Well you don't seem drug free. I have a right not to trust or believe someone online unless I've met them, know them, or seen their pictures and talked to them on the phone. Trust is not a free gift and there is no logical reason why I should think that you are logical and clear headed. I have met thousands in my life and know a rational wise person when I meet one. So far, you haven't shown such characteristics.

You're also not making sense. What do you advocate with Dianne? That I start being violent and aggressive? Is that a sign of strength to you? Some people do not do what they're told and do not obey others. That is a fact of life. It doesn't matter how much you yell at them or punish them.

Of course I've laid some ground rules. But I can't control every aspect of Dianne's behavior and personality. Get real. You cannot control others completely. No one can.

But at the same time, she does not usually get her way with me either. I do not comply with her wishes or give her what she wants, or what her family wants.

FYI, I have done my best to set boundaries and not let anyone take advantage of me. Even Dianne has remarked that it is "so difficult" to get money from me.

Like I said, I'm a fighter, for what I believe is right.

And of course, I try to be fair too.

What is wrong with that?

When I was in Poland, a train conductor tried to scam me, thinking that I was a passive Asian tourist who obeyed any authority. But I protested and stood up to him. Eventually, I took out a pen and pad and started writing down his badge number. At that point, he ran away. You see, I have dealt with scum like that in Russia so I knew what to do.

When I tell my Asian friends about this, they admire my bravery and courage. I stood up for what was right against someone in a position of authority. Is that something a wuss does?

Nevertheless, Dianne's family is not cunning or calculating. They are kind people, but are needy people as well. They expect those with money to be generous givers. And that's fine. But you have to draw a line. I'm not rich and I'm not in the PI to give out free money like a Santa Claus. I can't afford to, but even if I could, why would I? Not even rich Filipinos give out free money nor do they give cash assistance to their relatives. Members of the upper Filipino classes explained this to me. There is a reason they don't. Can you figure out what it is swincor?

So far I have seen no proof of your observation skills, depth or insight. Here is your chance to impress us.

In short, you are not realistic or reasonable and you have not shown any major flaws in what I do nor proven that I could have done something else with a better result. You're all about narrow minded conjecture and blame and inaccuracies.
Check out the latest posts in our blog The Happier Abroaders.

Don't forget my HA Grand Ebook and Dating Sites!

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World
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Re: You guys are the ones who don't see the big picture

Postby icarus » Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:40 pm

WWu777 wrote:W: Well you again fail to see the big picture. When I'm in the Philippines, I do NOT have a "needy behavior" because I have so many girls and sex partners that I no longer act "needy". Acting needy is often brought about by the conditions of the dating field. It is not a conscious choice for no reason.

Besides, if you understood women and psychology, you would know that women usually use the "he's too needy and needs to grow up" on guys they aren't attracted to as an excuse to turn him down. If a guy they loved were needy toward them, they would say "Awww how cute! I love when my man is needy. It shows that he really loves me!"

Sure there are nuggets of truth in everything. And a self fulfilling prophecy exists. No one is claiming it doesn't. But some people use it as an excuse or lazy copout to discredit anyone who complains, no matter how legit their complaint is. It certainly doesn't explain my situation. It's too simplistic, is what I'm saying.
.

Yeah- and some people use the cop-out the "oh, she's only saying I'm needy because she's not interested" and never attempt to change any of their unattractive behavior. It cuts both ways pal! And as far as your claim that women usually use the needy reason as an excuse to reject a man- if you're going to claim it then you need to back it up and tell me what qualifies you to make such a pronouncement-- and FYI- NO, your own personal experiences and other anecdotes from random guys is not sufficient proof. Even though a man may be in a better market for finding women, it is still possible for him to get a case of the infamous one-itus and settle on a girl too early and short change himself. Thus, changing his mindset before going abroad can still be a fruitful thing, despite your simplistic protestations that all he needs is a geographic change. I'm simply saying:

1) Go abroad by all means if you can- therefore getting a geographic adjustment
2) Don't pay for the PUA's products, but absorb to their overall message and get a mental adjustment- learning how present yourself as a more fun-loving, easy going and interesting person would pay dividends in any country.

In sum, if you want the greatest success, then try to improve both your internal and external factors!!! Not too hard to understand.
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Postby Winston » Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:36 am

Swincor,
You are not reading what I said and are parroting the same things again.

I have not given Dianne's family thousands of dollars, just a few hundred dollars over a long period of time.

They are needy people, but not the type to ask or beg or try to pressure others. They are reserved and not like that. I do NOT get requests for money from them.

I think you misunderstood things or took them out of context.

Of course I have my ground rules. Everyone does. There are disputes over little things. But in the end, my place is mine and my things are mine. And no one forces me to pay for things I don't owe.

I pay rent every month, baby supplies, immigration fees every two months, and food and entertainment when I go out with Dianne. I also buy Dianne some clothes and shoes at the mall sometimes. And I buy drinks in bars occasionally too.

But that's it. Those are NORMAL expenses. I do not support any other people or give them cash assistance. Those are the facts.

So what is your problem?

In fact, the locals in Angeles know me and know that I am not rich, do not give out free cash, and am quite frugal about things. They accept and respect that and leave me alone.

If you come here, I can show you all this.

BTW, I did not have better choices than Dianne. She is the highest quality and most faithful and loyal girl I've dated so far.
Check out the latest posts in our blog The Happier Abroaders.

Don't forget my HA Grand Ebook and Dating Sites!

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World
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