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The American divide

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The American divide

Postby Cyrus » Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:42 am

The American male master-race

Square-jawed, athletic, succesful, large (6'0+), cut-hair, hot girlfriend, future business owner. We'll call them jocks, but that's not an accurate term. It's genetic favoritism, these are the guys who are AMERICA. Just look at the movies, after all.

Other kinds of men: Weirdos, losers, freaks, nerds, fags.

But some people are cursed to think for themselves, dress differently, be creative or artistic, have individuality, etc. In America, there's so much worship of the square-jawed American male that things like being smart, imaginative, artistic, conversational, etc. are actually looked down (unlike the UK, where being smart is GOOD and girls enjoy conversation).

This divide between the successful male archetype of excess testosterone, and normal men, is really hurtful. But, it's created entirely in people's minds.

Women do like masculine men, but shallow American women believe that masculinity involves being loud, obnoxious, arrogant, and trying so very hard to be alpha-male.

I've found women in other countries have different views on masculinity, and see American pseudo-masculinity as being completely hollow.

Women in America are culturally conditioned to go toward the "jock" archetype through societal pressure and misguided belief systems. They think they're: the "real men", the protectors, providers, etc. It's no surprise so many American marriages are doomed to fail. As the jock-archetypes huddle together in college, joining frats etc, they rarely spend time for self-development, spiritual enlightenment, etc. They don't know how to love, so they become abusive to their spouses. What's left are wrecked marriages, and disturbed kids. The cycle continues.

I think this divide only exists in America. Elsewhere, there are beefy men who are also normal, intelligent, not self-destructive. And, there are guys who are not "jocks" but are perfectly normal, secure with themselves, and masculine, and nobody questions this, and there is no dating prejudice.
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Postby jamesbond » Tue Apr 14, 2009 6:30 am

Amen! I could not of said it better myself! American women are delusional in what they look for in a man. He has to be an alpha male, tall, good looking (who cares about his character as long as he is popular). This explain why so many marriages in America fail. America has one of the highest divorce rates in the world! There is an old saying in the US, "nice guys finish last." How true that is in America!
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Postby Winston » Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:20 am

I agree. I too have noticed that women in the UK can hold more intelligent deep conversations. But then again, most of the UK women I've met are travelers and very open.
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Postby jamesbond » Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:54 am

American women LOVE the bad boy because they think he is the "alpha male." Women in the US go crazy over macho men (or who they perceive to be macho). I think this comes from what they see on tv and in the movies. The "bad boy" is seen as popular and cool, exactly the type of guy most women in America are looking for. This trend starts in either junior high or high school and continues throughout adulthood. I heard a dating expert say, that in order to sleep with lot's of women, you need to become an "alpha male" and change your image that you project to women. Welcome to the dating scene in modern day America! :D

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Postby gmm567 » Thu Apr 23, 2009 4:31 pm

"Most Filipinas don't like those types and prefer me over them. That's what they like about me. I'm not just some "tough man" but a natural friend they vibe with and are comfortable with."


That's the main reason that I've decided against germany. Even though germany is better than here;from what winston has said the philipines are even better.
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Postby Winston » Fri Apr 24, 2009 12:33 pm

gmm567 wrote:"Most Filipinas don't like those types and prefer me over them. That's what they like about me. I'm not just some "tough man" but a natural friend they vibe with and are comfortable with."


That's the main reason that I've decided against germany. Even though germany is better than here;from what winston has said the philipines are even better.


W: Well the Philippines are better for dating and getting laid easily. But Germany is far better for clean streets, efficient law and order, tall girls, educated women, and rich culture, European architecture, museums, etc. It depends on what you want, and how you fit in.

Some report they had a blast dating German women and got laid a lot. Others don't.
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Postby Enishi » Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:21 pm

Unless they take more active control over their minds, I think most women are very susceptible to the expectations of the herd in terms of what's "attractive".
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Postby Shokkers » Fri May 01, 2009 9:07 pm

There are a couple of fallacies in this proposal about fallacies.

First of all, nobody needs to be a 'jock', but almost anyone can BECOME a jock. Not in the sense of some mega-muscled human battleship, but simply someone obviously healthy, fit and strong. Anthony Robbins and Bill Phillips could be considered 'jocks', but they're also smart, charismatic and altruistic. Any number of actors HAD to become jocks in order to qualify for certain roles...(Hugh Jackman, Bruce Campbell, etc. Christian Bale is the only guy I can think of that went from being a jock to a human skeleton, and back again.)

As I wrote in Rock Her World: Muscularity is a form of power almost anyone can achieve. Muscularity aids in lovemaking, can prevent other guys from hitting on your girls, and can get your girl out of a burning car faster than a lack of muscularity will.

Secondly, women do not 'automatically' gravitate to the 'Alpha Male'. I'm not Alpha, couldn't care less about being one, and I'm already on girlfriend #205. If you think Jocks get all the women, look at Tommy Lee. First he was a scarecrow, THEN he added tattoos and piercings. Neil Strauss and Ross Jefferies are two of the top pick-up artists in history...yet Neil is bald, 5'6" and weighs 126 pounds. Ross resembles Boris Karloff with worse hair.

Women DO tend to gravitate to POWER in a man (just as we gravitate to Beauty in women)--it's a biological signal that a man can protect and/or provide for them and their offspring--but POWER is not the exclusive domain of the 'Alpha Male'. Intelligence is power; wealth is power; talent (when demonstrated) is power, as well as skill; charisma is power; humor is power; kindness is power. And virtually no one is born with these; they must be acquired. (And at no time, before, during or after acquiring them do you have to become loud, obnoxious, arrogant, abusive, etc.)

Strauss and Jeffries realized they'd HAVE to acquire some traits or they'd never get anywhere with women. So they applied themselves and learned. Now, if you were female, you'd probably never look twice at these guys. However, if either of them started talking to you, you'd be dropping your panties in short order.
(Just as an observation, most 'pick-up artists' are louder than they have to be, and come across as cocky or arrogant only as a strategy. In 'real life' (or, when there are no hot chicks around), they're pretty much ordinary schmoes.

Finally, being shy, quiet, reserved, etc, does not qualify anyone as 'nice'. (Ed Gein & Jeffrey Dahmer were both 'shy and quiet'.) It means they're shy, quiet and reserved. There is a difference between being a "nice guy" and a "good man". A nice guy will hold the door open for a woman; a good man will hold it open for anyone. A "nice guy" will go out of his way to be subservient to women, which is the last thing they want. A good man is able to say 'no' to a woman, while most nice guys can't. In fact, most 'nice guys' are only 'nice' when they want to get something from someone. If you are in fact actually nice, you can still die lonely if you wait for women to approach you. You can be nice and still have confidence and charisma.

There's an excellent book out called NO MORE MISTER NICE GUY that enables anyone to escape the trap of being a 'nice guy'...look it up on Amazon, or Google it.

Best, K.K.
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Postby momopi » Sat May 02, 2009 3:16 am

A successful American male

Back when girls wouldn't give him time of the day:
Image

Most women couldn't even dream of being with him today:
Image


Success is the best revenge. You don't have to be Bill Gates -- there are many other ways to be successful.
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Postby jamesbond » Sat May 02, 2009 6:17 pm

Howard Stern said on his radio show a few years ago that when he was in high school and college, girls would just ignore him. He said he couldn't get a date to save his life! Now, he says women stop him on the street all the time and want to date him. He said the only reason women are interested in him now, is because he is rich and famous. Back in high school and college when he was a nobody, girls didn't even acknowledge his existence! This further proves the point that women are mainly interested in rich and famous guys. I guess women are biologically wired to go after the "alpha male" and just ignore all the other guys!
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Postby Cyrus » Sun May 03, 2009 10:08 am

My frustration stems partially from college.

It's hard when girls don't look twice at you because they've already judged you before they even talk to you. Even if I see a girl who's not physically attractive, I'll at least talk to her and see what else is going on, so there's not even a double standard.

But a lot of girls in college have no intention of talking because they base relationships on physical appearance alone (so do the guys). It's why I see women walking around with horrifying fake tans and guys with shirts 4 sizes too small and walking around like they have a stick shoved up their ass for posture.

When I'm around foreign students, or more mature women at slightly older nightclubs everything changes and I can connect with many women on a cerebral level and turn it into attraction.

You can't exactly do any Neil Strauss style pickup moves on girls in college when trying to talk to them immediately creates a :"OMG who are you, scrawny short guy don't f***ing talk to me" reactions.

I was chatting about this with a female French foreign exchange student tonight. She was discussing how she finds American behavior absolutely bizarre because of how surface-level everything is.

It's not until I meet foreigners that I am reminded how normal people interract.
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Postby jamesbond » Sun May 03, 2009 12:43 pm

"It's not until I meet foreigners that I am reminded how normal people interract."

I love that line Cyrus! When I was in college I met a girl who was from an exchange student from Germany. What struck me first about her was she was HOT and FRIENDLY! What a nice combination to have! How many hot looking women in America are nice and friendly? Probably 5% is my guess. She actually talked about things that were not related to mtv, celebrities, movie stars or alcohol. What a nice change of pace from most college students conversations! :roll: There does seem to be this phoney surface that some people in America put out to others as they are trying to behave in a "cool way." I guess people are trying to be accepted by the majority of others. "Fitting in" is something that seems to be difficult to do in the US, even though most people won't admit it.
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Postby gmm567 » Sun May 03, 2009 2:42 pm

" finds American behavior absolutely bizarre because of how surface-level everything is. "


That's precisely how I find the whole game to be. It is bizarre, and peculiar . It's wonderful to hear someone else validating my thinking.
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Postby Winston » Sun May 03, 2009 3:10 pm

gmm567 wrote:" finds American behavior absolutely bizarre because of how surface-level everything is. "


That's precisely how I find the whole game to be. It is bizarre, and peculiar . It's wonderful to hear someone else validating my thinking.


W: Me too. Here's an interesting direct example of this.

Compare the self description below from an American girl on MySpace vs two from Russia and Europe.

First, the typical American girl. Notice how uneducated and unaware she is about the rest of the world, and how absorbed she is in her highly consumerist world of image and airhead partying. (Ironically, she mentions that she doesn’t like fake people but doesn’t realize her own fakeness) She even misspells a lot of words.

“I love snowboarding and football they are probably my two favorite things. My favorite day is sunday because i get to lay in bed all day and watch football all day. I love to snowboard every waking moment that i can and i love to always explore new trails. My snowboarding crew is also one of my loves: Dave, Katrina, and Jay we always have fun together and i love ya!! I also love partying!! Jack Daniels always accompanies me everywhere i go. Ocean Beach is my main place to go party up in White Rock.. i love going there! Besdies partying and snowboarding i love hanging out with my friends just doing lowkey things around b-town. I love my friends to death and they mean the world to me! I miss my girls from high school like crazy and wish they were all back home!! But the friends i have here i love ya to death! I would die without a starbucks everyday... i am addcited and i will admit it. Along with starbucks my other weakness is purses i love Coach purses more than anything and own probably one from every season... yes i have a big weakness. I also have a huge weakness for shoes. I will buy any kind of shoe that i think is aborable but i mainly stick to heels that are strappy or pointy toed. ..Shopping is one of my favorite things too and i probably go a little too often. My favorite place to shop at is Bellvue because they have all of the good stores. I love SUV's and trucks. I dont think i will ever be able to drive a car again... i drive a cadillac SRX but might be trading it in for a new Denali. Guys in suv's like 4runners or pathfinders are a huge turn on. My favorite color is pink and i own tons of pink clothes. I absolutley hate people that are two faced. I also hate people that are fake.. people that are fake in everyway bug me.. be real. I hate asparagus and beans. I love thai food and fruit more than anything in the world to eat. I also love meeting new people and can get along with almost anyone. I am always up for something new. I am very outgoing and personable... i love to joke around and be sarcastic so dont always take what i am saying literally. I love dogs and one of the loves of my life is Blake my dog. I love hubby Abraham and i know that he is always there for me! Getting massages and pedicures are amazing and i try to get them as much as possible. I love jeans and own them in every styler and color. My favorite brands are Antik and True Religion. I love to watch MTV and VH1 shows and can lsiten to almost any type of music. I am just up for a good time!! All i am about is having fun. I try to make fun where ever i go and it usually happens!! I just want fun, cuz GIRLS JUST WANNA HAVE FUN!!â€￾

Obviously, a girl like that is very picky and shallow, and going to judge a guy solely on looks and image. What chance in hell do I have with someone like that? None. What could I offer her shallow world?! Even if I shared all her interests above, I STILL wouldn’t be her type, and that means she would be totally non-inclusive toward me, not bothering to hold any conversation with me or make any time for me. It’s a dead wall situation.

Now contrast that with this letter below that I received from a young girl from Russia. Notice how aware of and in tune with herself she is, how cultured and intelligent she seems, and how she is able to describe and express herself and her varied interests in English even though it's her second language. Such is not rare, but typical of European/Russian youngsters, believe it or not. Like I said, rarities in the US are common abroad.

"Hi Winston,

I am sorry, that has not answered you at once. Some last days there was not connections with a server. Besides, unfortunately writing does not concern to number of my talents, I have more likely technical thinking, than humanitarian , and in your letter I have found many ideas which I share and I wanted to consider better the reply to you as such frank letter deserves the worthy answer.

I want to note, that leaving the ad on Au Pair, I had no at all intentions to find something the greater, rather than simply friendly correspondence with the purpose of improvement of my English language. Anyway, I am sure, that from our conversation I will get a lot of new and interesting things and ideas as you seem very clever, educated and versatile person.

Now a little about me.

I am 23 years old. I live in city of Novosibirsk, so-called "capital" of Siberia both the third on size and a population city of Russia. It not my native city. I was born in city of Surgut (it is Siberia too, but more to the north), I have grown there and graduated from school. In Novosibirsk I study on the third rate of faculty of Information Computing Technologies, the future speciality - programming. I like to study and I think that was not mistaken in a choice of a direction, computers and Internet - one of my basic interests.

Further more, about interests. Besides computers I m interested in a great number of the diversified things, it is a pity only, that It is only 24 hours in day, instead of 48, for example, and i have not time for all of it :))).

I adore reading, most of all I love historical novels, the classical literature (especially French) and Fantasy. I do not like much love novels and detectives, I do not know why by myself :)). I adore movie and cinemas, I miss novelties very seldom, I collect an own collection of films. I adore good music. I do not like pop, turnips, hip-hop, a trance and techno - did i call it correct? I love a rock music. But actually, if to be truely honest, I don t have much

time for my numerous interests, so Mainly i read books in The underground, watching movies while having my dinner and 1 or 2 times in month go to some theatre:), almost All the time is spent for study.

I am a kind of vegetarian :))) I do not eat meat at all, but sometimes I eat a fish. I love animals and wildlife Very much, supporter Green Peace though I do not attend their meetings and demonstrations, I just try to act according to my belief. I do not much like to be engaged in housekeeping, however I am able to prepare for tasty pancakes, you might be tasted some when you were in Russia, and I adore romantic suppers with candlelightes.

Besides I very active person. I adore sports, tourism, travel. I like to open the new places, new people and new interests. Meanwhile I was only in three countries, not considering the countries of the CIS - in Sweden, England and Turkey, my financial opportunities are limited, but i m sure, that in the future this list will be filled up. I adore tourism, almost all last summer has spend in mountains - necessarily I shall send you some photos. Sometimes I like to take a walk on city just thinking and dreaming.

I do a sport called Tae Kwon Do - kind of Oriental combat sports, aerobics, I love ping-pong, a bicycle, rollers, riding (though i m awful rider :))) ), I dream to jump with a parachute. I adore picnics and in general I love any active leisure.

I like to go on a visit, and even more i like to receive visitors at my place and to treat them with tasty dinner. I love good interesting conversation over a bottle of wine.

I think myself the integral, purposeful, reliable and obligatory person, sympathetic, inquisitive and friendly. My friends know, that it is possible to rely on me and at any time to address for the help and support. In people I do not like meanness, egoism, callousness and most of all I appreciate frankness, fidelity and kindness.

My astrological mark Balance if u interested, as for me - i do not trust horoscopes.

Also I want to add, that the nationality has no absolutely any value for me, and I have not absolutely understood, that you meant, when spoke about Caucasian women. By the way, I m Russian :))).

Well, it seems like i have written all that has occurred to me :))). I shall wait for your reply With impatience.

P.S. My contact information. I would like contacting by e-mail, u know the address. Also u can call me if u wish, my mobile phone is <snipped>. I do not tell u my post address, because I live in a student hostel and they lose letters very often. And about photos - i will mail it to u as soon as i make some fresh ones"


Even this letter from a teenage pen pal I knew long ago from Czech Republic is far more substantive. Notice how cultured, aware of other cultures, down-to-earth and genuine she is, even though she’s just a teen!

“Hi Winston,
how´s it going?:-)
Well, both "a" in my name sound like "u" in the word "up" so it´s more like "Yunu" or "Yuna" i don´t know exactly:-)

In my town there are two parts - the old one and the new one. I live in an old one, it´s quite a nice part, there are lots of monuments, beautiful park, chateau, churches, spas (there are just 3 springs but my town was very smart so it got millions euros by EU to rebuild the old unused "spas" and it got a status of real spas) and lots of very old buildings (the house i live in was built in about 1870 and it´s far from the oldest house here:-)). The new part is full of ugly blocks of flats and there are also two districts with new houses.

It´s just about 100 km away from Prague. I love Prague I think it´s one of the most beautiful cities in the world (but maybe i´m a little nationalistic:-)). I go there for shopping, concerts, sports matches etc. there´s always something to do (in contrast to my town). I was there just a few days ago and i couldn´t believe my eyes...it´s just so lovely...when you are there you feel like it´s about 15th century. I like it much more than e.g. Paris cuz for me it´s quite boring - everything looks the same so it´s quite easy to get lost there:-) And a lot of people in france didn´t want to speak in english nor german (my friend told me to try to say some words in french and tell them i´m from CR, reputably they are more talkative if they know you´re not german or british:-), but mostly they were nice

I don´t know much of Poland, i´ve never been there, I´ve just heard Poles are more nationalistic and really proud of their country and Czechs are unfortunately not (they are proud of being czechs only if we win an ice-hockey or football (soccer) match:-) Poles are really more religious than Czechs cuz Czechs are one of the most atheistic people in the europe(maybe the whole world). I don´t think it´s bad cuz it makes czechs more tolerant about lots of things ( s etc.). It´s sad people don´t like you if you aren´t white in poland, i hope it´s better here in CR. I mean, czechs are not racist, i think they find people of another colour (black especially:-) all my friends say they love them though most of them know no one who´s black:-) ) really interesting. But very much of them has an aversion against romanies:-( I think this is similar in poland and in cr...
I don´t know if czechs are wilder than poles, everybody says something else:-) Maybe it depends on what part are you in:-)
How did you get to Poland? And why did you choose it? Where have you been? I want to go there so you could recommend me some places:-)

Well, in my trip to usa I was going to New York first, then to Chicago, "down" (to the south) along route 66 to california (LA of course:-)), and then "up" to Seattle (my dad wanted to see the music museum or something and i wanted to see where kurt cobain lived:-) and then back to cr. Maybe it looks that it´s too much for a month visit but my dad´s friend pefectly layed it out (how many km we have to travel every day and what exactly we can catch up and see (there was a little trip to Mexico too i think, but i didn´t care much of our programm:-) ))

Czechoslovakia was established in 1918 but Slovaks were always the feeling they are oppressed so we got separated in 1993. Now it´s the Czech republic and Slovakia - two small countries instead of one quite large.

I love simpsons, they´re funny:-) i think my impression of a fat man eating bigmac comes from this serial:-) I guess i´m also very influenced of movies, travel documents/films, school a little (we´re supposed to learn things like industry, political system etc. but my teacher wants to share his travel experiences with me and my schoolmates:-) ) and of newspapers ( i love to read it but they care much more of europe than america)

I don´t mind you quote me in your book. What´s that about? How europeans see americans?;-) Will your book be available in europe?
I also hope your essay is easy to read, i really would like to read it. Will you write it on imdb?

That lady´s comment you sent me was really amusing:-) I speak with a local American dialect? WOW:-)
I still think americans are nationalistic cuz they flag (if i´d try to do this here with the czech flag, people´d think i´m insane:-) ) and cuz of that writings on cars and so on like "God bless America" etc. And ALL Greeks, no matter where they live, are proud of where they came from (greeks in czech r. ,though they´ve been living here for about 20 years, still prefer greek national "anything" to czech ones and Greece is "the first in their hearts" ). Btw it´s very bad if it´s true what she wrote, that in "ghettos or backwoods neighborhoods" can "extremity" in knowledge be proven, cuz it means you have to be "well-born" american to get a good teaching.

I sent you some photos of my town (i haven´t got a photo of me yet but you can send me yours:-)). In the night one you can see a very little bit of the house i live in (it´s the last one on the left, you can see about 3 cm of it :-))

Greeting, Janaâ€￾


Wow wasn't that so down to earth for a 16 year old girl? It's like sooooooooooo much easier to hold a conversation with her than the typical American girl above, isn't it?

Interestingly enough, if you look closely at the American girl's MySpace intro and compare it with Elena and Jana’s letters, you will notice that the grammar and vocabulary of the foreign girls, even though English is their second language, is more refined and organized than that of the American girl, whose native language is English!
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Re: The American divide

Postby jamesbond » Mon May 05, 2014 9:49 pm

Cyrus wrote:This divide between the successful male archetype of excess testosterone, and normal men, is really hurtful. But, it's created entirely in people's minds.

Women do like masculine men, but shallow American women believe that masculinity involves being loud, obnoxious, arrogant, and trying so very hard to be alpha-male.

I've found women in other countries have different views on masculinity, and see American pseudo-masculinity as being completely hollow.

Women in America are culturally conditioned to go toward the "jock" archetype through societal pressure and misguided belief systems. They think they're: the "real men", the protectors, providers, etc. It's no surprise so many American marriages are doomed to fail. As the jock-archetypes huddle together in college, joining frats etc, they rarely spend time for self-development, spiritual enlightenment, etc. They don't know how to love, so they become abusive to their spouses. What's left are wrecked marriages, and disturbed kids. The cycle continues.

I think this divide only exists in America. Elsewhere, there are beefy men who are also normal, intelligent, not self-destructive. And, there are guys who are not "jocks" but are perfectly normal, secure with themselves, and masculine, and nobody questions this, and there is no dating prejudice.

This is well put Cyrus, American women are 'conditioned' into believing a loud, obnoxious guy is an alpha male and a guy who is shy and quiet is a beta male and should be avoided. :roll:

Pop culture in the US is the blame for this.
"When I think about the idea of getting involved with an American woman, I don't know if I should laugh .............. or vomit!"

"Trying to meet women in America is like trying to decipher Egyptian hieroglyphics."
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