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How come guys don't discuss the difficult US dating scene?

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How come guys don't discuss the difficult US dating scene?

Postby jamesbond » Sat Jul 18, 2009 3:22 pm

It seems like this is the only discussion forum that talks about the difficult dating scene for men in America. I wonder why there aren't more discussion boards or websites that deal with that issue. The only guys in America who talk about their social lives are the ones who already have one! LOL :D The guys who are having a hard time meeting women or making friends never discuss it with anyone, I guess they think they will look like losers if they do. It's funny, in America your are not supposed to talk about how difficult a time your having meeting people or making friends. It's a taboo subject for some reason.

Now, on the other hand, I hear guys all the time bragging about how much they are getting laid or how many women they are dating, etc. I think a lot of them are lying or exaggerating. When I am at the gym working out, sometimes I hear guys saying, "oh yeah, this weekend I got 10 phone numbers from girls" or "I slept with 30 girls last year" or "I usually date 40 girls a year." All are highly suspect in my opinion. Come on, it's hard to get even ONE womans phone number let alone 10 in one weekend! And how the hell can you date 40 different girls in one year living in the US? Give me a break! :roll: Also, how in gods name can you sleep with 30 girls in one year in America? (unless all the girls were fat or ugly, LOL :D ) Now I know for a fact that guys are lying when they say they are able to meet women in bookstores and grocery stores and on buses and trains in the US. That is a big fat LIE, no way in hell can you get lot's of womens phone numbers just being out in public places in the US, as women in public places in the US are not approachable at all!

Now one thing that amazes me about American women is how they sometimes dress so sexy in the warm weather months, yet get upset if guys look at them or start conversationns with them. I have seen women in public wearing very short shorts, tank tops and no bra and tight tee shirts with no bra! :shock: Yet, if you look at them they get an angry look on their face and seemed annoyed. God forbid you should strike up a conversation with them, or look at them, it's like your not supposed to have desires around women in the US! If they don't want male attention, they why are they dressed with their best ASSests showing? LOL :lol: I am glad this discussion forum exists because the real dating scene in America is discussed here!
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Postby EvilBaga » Sat Jul 18, 2009 5:47 pm

Now one thing that amazes me about American women is how they sometimes dress so sexy in the warm weather months, yet get upset if guys look at them or start conversationns with them.


That is easy enough to explain. Women are hypergamous. They are dressing sexy to attract an alpha male. By definition a male who is in the top, say, 20%.
The others can drop dead.

Google and read "Sexual Utopia in Power" By F Roger Devlin to read a great (and long) article about this.
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Re: How come guys don't discuss the difficult US dating scen

Postby Hero » Sat Jul 18, 2009 9:47 pm

jamesbond wrote: The guys who are having a hard time meeting women or making friends never discuss it with anyone, I guess they think they will look like losers if they do.

Now one thing that amazes me about American women is how they sometimes dress so sexy in the warm weather months, yet get upset if guys look at them or start conversations with them.


Exactly. An American guy who has trouble making friends is the subject of ridicule and contempt, not sympathy. Everyone just assumes he must be a horrible person.

Your second observation is spot-on too.
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Postby Winston » Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:35 pm

I too often wonder why other forums don't talk about this, even though it's an obvious problem in America. Even other expat sites don't talk about America being lonely or the dating scene sucking for men there. The only forums I know of that do are the PUA forums, like sosuave.com. But they are all about developing "game" to score with American girls. lol

In other countries, people say they don't need "game". That's all a bunch of pseudo shit. It's not even proven that "game" exists. Sounds like a bunch of nonsense or a pseudo label.

Most single guys will admit that the dating scene in America for men is difficult if confronted about it. But they will only casually admit it, that's all. They do not see it as a big thing and won't obsess over it, but try to focus on other things. Also, I think most guys who are dateless assume that the problem must be them, and not with society, so they do not wish to draw attention to their "faults".

Most of the "friends" that guys have tend to be hang out friends only. They are not friends that they can talk about their problems with, who really care about them and are with them through thick and thin.

Even the guys who have girlfriends and wives do not always keep them for long though. The divorce rate is over half now.

Plus, most guys in America are workaholics and focus on that too much to obsess over dating anyways. They are told that if they work hard and become successful, that the right person for them will come along eventually.

Furthermore, most people live in fear. Remember our mainstream media conditions us to live in fear and dumbs us down too. And people who live in fear are not very outspoken, they keep their issues to themselves. Remember the saying "Most men lead lives of quiet desperation".

There are guys who are happy and content in the US though, or at least they say they are. But these tend to be very different from us. They have lower standards and expectations. As long as they have their coffee every morning, their job, and their guy friends to hang out with after work, they are content. They don't "need" hot chicks to be happy. In their minds, if it happens, it happens, if it doesn't, then it doesn't, and they let it go at that.

You know those types too right?
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Postby SNS » Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:39 pm

EvilBaga wrote:
Now one thing that amazes me about American women is how they sometimes dress so sexy in the warm weather months, yet get upset if guys look at them or start conversationns with them.


That is easy enough to explain. Women are hypergamous. They are dressing sexy to attract an alpha male. By definition a male who is in the top, say, 20%.
The others can drop dead.

Google and read "Sexual Utopia in Power" By F Roger Devlin to read a great (and long) article about this.

If i may ask, the top 20% of what? by income? by height? what do you mean by top 20%? What defines "alpha" male?

Thing is, there is a little book called "The Book Of Bonecracker" which is a guy that accurately describes the typical American female today. He stated that Americanized women are sick and that they will latch on to a rich guy for his $$$, but they are really attracted to the Thug who abuses them physically and morally, typically these guys are drug addicts and or dealers. I am very inclined to agree with bonecracker.
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Postby Winston » Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:50 pm

I think the top 20 percent means the top level of "desirability". All the main factors matter, status, image, looks, wealth, personality, etc. so it's probably a combination of them.
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Postby momopi » Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:04 pm

Most guys don't complain because they got marreid with kids.

Looking at US Census data from 2008, only 23.2% of American men by age 35 category & 19.7% of men by age 40 category has never been married. For Asian American males, the figures are 27.8% (age 35 group) and 13.2% (age 40 group). I'm 38, so for my group, only 3 out of 10 are single and never married.

Plus, of those who are single and never married, some are cohabiting with a GF, and a smaller % are gay. So it'd be silly to think that most men can't get dates. Even if the guy got divorced, he had to be sucessful in dating and courting to get married in the first place.

Source: http://www.census.gov/population/www/so ... s2008.html
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Postby SNS » Wed Jul 22, 2009 6:35 pm

momopi wrote:Most guys don't complain because they got marreid with kids.

Looking at US Census data from 2008, only 23.2% of American men by age 35 category & 19.7% of men by age 40 category has never been married. For Asian American males, the figures are 27.8% (age 35 group) and 13.2% (age 40 group). I'm 38, so for my group, only 3 out of 10 are single and never married.

Plus, of those who are single and never married, some are cohabiting with a GF, and a smaller % are gay. So it'd be silly to think that most men can't get dates. Even if the guy got divorced, he had to be sucessful in dating and courting to get married in the first place.

Source: http://www.census.gov/population/www/so ... s2008.html

Then what in your opinion would be the criteria to rate someone as the top 20% alpha male?
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Postby Winston » Wed Jul 22, 2009 6:54 pm

momopi wrote:Most guys don't complain because they got marreid with kids.

Looking at US Census data from 2008, only 23.2% of American men by age 35 category & 19.7% of men by age 40 category has never been married. For Asian American males, the figures are 27.8% (age 35 group) and 13.2% (age 40 group). I'm 38, so for my group, only 3 out of 10 are single and never married.

Plus, of those who are single and never married, some are cohabiting with a GF, and a smaller % are gay. So it'd be silly to think that most men can't get dates. Even if the guy got divorced, he had to be sucessful in dating and courting to get married in the first place.

Source: http://www.census.gov/population/www/so ... s2008.html


Well maybe most men CAN get a girlfriend or wife either once or a few times in his/her lifetime. But I would not say that most guys in America can get a girlfriend ANYTIME they wanted, like me and my expat friends can in the Philippines, for example. No way jose. Every guy I know here, including younger ones who look fit, say that they would never go back to American women again.

The OP was talking about single guys, not married ones. I do not think that most single guys in America are happy with the dating scene and truly believe that they can get dates any time they want. They may say that, but in reality it doesn't tend to be true.

Getting married once or getting a girlfriend once is not what we consider "successful". My cousin Dennis just got married to a beautiful girl, for example, but he was single and a virgin for probably over 30 years. Does that make him "successful"? Maybe to you, but not to me. For most of his life, he could not get any dates or any sex, period, and there was nothing he could do about it. Yeah he's married now, so he got what he wanted, but we are talking about a fun, easy, active dating life here that "flows".

Even I have had girlfriends in the US. But the bottom line is that I have to wait YEARS for the next chance to get a girlfriend or date or sex again. And that's EXCRUCIATING to me and others of my kind. I didn't want to put up with it again, and so I looked for an extreme out, ABROAD.

To me and most of the guys here, if a guy has to wait years to get a girlfriend or get laid, the dating scene sucks. It seems though that you are saying that if a guy scores one time in 10,000, that he is successful. Is that right? If so, I don't agree with that. Being forced to endure years of datelessness and sexlessness like I was in the US is horrible. And walking around for hours trying to meet girls and getting nowhere and ending up with heat exhaustion, hunger, and thirst, as well as frustration, is excruciating, yet that's what I experienced in California in the late 1990's.

It's all about CHOICES. Nothing compares to the feeling that you know you can get almost any girl you want. Nothing compares to it.

What I'm talking about is described here, which you are quoted in:

http://www.happierabroad.com/alternative.php
Check out the latest posts in our blog The Happier Abroaders.

Don't forget my HA Grand Ebook and Dating Sites!

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Postby SNS » Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:52 pm

Vinstonas wrote:Getting married once or getting a girlfriend once is not what we consider "successful". My cousin Dennis just got married to a beautiful girl, for example, but he was single and a virgin for probably over 30 years. Does that make him "successful"? Maybe to you, but not to me. For most of his life, he could not get any dates or any sex, period, and there was nothing he could do about it. Yeah he's married now, so he got what he wanted, but we are talking about a fun, easy, active dating life here that "flows".

Plus your cousin made a major sacrifice to get what he wanted. He turned himself essentially into a manservant. In the United States marriage is for idiots, pure and simple. Wait until your cousin's wife reads some dumb article from a femmie mag-rag, or she's some shit-for-brains woman's talk show on television and she decides she wants to be a lesbian and divorce your cousin, fleece him in court, and eat p***y on his dime.

I do not mean to sound harsh here, but its insanity to be married.

I suspect he did what a lot of desperate guys do, they offer marriage thinking that it will be easy from that point on. It will not. Sex does not get any better with marriage, it gets worse. Luckily i never stepped on that land mine, but i have so many other friends who have and the stories are horrifying. Especially now that the family courts are 1000% are on her side.

So i have to agree with you Vinstonas that your cousin's situation is really not what we are meaning. I agree that romance has to be something that happens more, as you say, fluently and easier. Waiting 30 years and having to sacrifice yourself at the alter is not 'flowing"
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Postby Shokkers » Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:58 pm

I wouldn't say 'guys don't discuss the difficult US dating scene'. You guys are discussing it, and guys also discuss it at work & elsewhere, not necessarily just on the net.

I would venture that actually complaining about the dating scene in the US might be valid but it's pretty much a waste of time. It's not like all the girls in the country are going to read the posts and say "Hmmm, they're right, we ought to start making the first moves."

And, to be fair, the dating scene isn't difficult for everyone.
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Postby jamesbond » Wed Jul 22, 2009 10:00 pm

Vinstonas wrote:
momopi wrote:Most guys don't complain because they got marreid with kids.

Looking at US Census data from 2008, only 23.2% of American men by age 35 category & 19.7% of men by age 40 category has never been married. For Asian American males, the figures are 27.8% (age 35 group) and 13.2% (age 40 group). I'm 38, so for my group, only 3 out of 10 are single and never married.

Plus, of those who are single and never married, some are cohabiting with a GF, and a smaller % are gay. So it'd be silly to think that most men can't get dates. Even if the guy got divorced, he had to be sucessful in dating and courting to get married in the first place.

Source: http://www.census.gov/population/www/so ... s2008.html


Well maybe most men CAN get a girlfriend or wife either once or a few times in his/her lifetime. But I would not say that most guys in America can get a girlfriend ANYTIME they wanted, like me and my expat friends can in the Philippines, for example. No way jose. Every guy I know here, including younger ones who look fit, say that they would never go back to American women again.

The OP was talking about single guys, not married ones. I do not think that most single guys in America are happy with the dating scene and truly believe that they can get dates any time they want. They may say that, but in reality it doesn't tend to be true.

Getting married once or getting a girlfriend once is not what we consider "successful". My cousin Dennis just got married to a beautiful girl, for example, but he was single and a virgin for probably over 30 years. Does that make him "successful"? Maybe to you, but not to me. For most of his life, he could not get any dates or any sex, period, and there was nothing he could do about it. Yeah he's married now, so he got what he wanted, but we are talking about a fun, easy, active dating life here that "flows".

Even I have had girlfriends in the US. But the bottom line is that I have to wait YEARS for the next chance to get a girlfriend or date or sex again. And that's EXCRUCIATING to me and others of my kind. I didn't want to put up with it again, and so I looked for an extreme out, ABROAD.

To me and most of the guys here, if a guy has to wait years to get a girlfriend or get laid, the dating scene sucks. It seems though that you are saying that if a guy scores one time in 10,000, that he is successful. Is that right? If so, I don't agree with that. Being forced to endure years of datelessness and sexlessness like I was in the US is horrible. And walking around for hours trying to meet girls and getting nowhere and ending up with heat exhaustion, hunger, and thirst, as well as frustration, is excruciating, yet that's what I experienced in California in the late 1990's.

It's all about CHOICES. Nothing compares to the feeling that you know you can get almost any girl you want. Nothing compares to it.

What I'm talking about is described here, which you are quoted in:

http://www.happierabroad.com/alternative.php


Your right Winston! Having to wait years in between girlfriends is ridiculous! Or having to wait years to get laid is absurd! How many women in the US do you think have to wait years in between boyfriends or in between getting laid? Not many I think even have to go more than a few months before they meet a guy and start dating. Heck, even fat chicks and ugly chicks will get a boyfriend sooner than a good looking, physically fit guy will get a girlfriend! I read a statistic that said only 5% of the men in America are dating with and sleeping with lot's of women! The other 95% are lucky if they can date a few times a year!

Most guys in the US lower their standards and start dating undesireable women (single mothers, fat chicks and ugly chicks). In the US single men out number single women in every city in the US from the 20-34 age group! Check out this map that shows the single men and single women ratio for cities across the US. On the upper right side is a age slide rule that you can slide to the left and right to change the age range you are interested in.


http://www.xoxosoma.com/singles/
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Postby MatureDJ » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:11 am

I live in one of the red dots, but I have a hunch that most of the red dots are due to black women whose brothers (no pun intended) are living at the penetentiary, and therefore not counted in the statistics. The blue dots are probably due to illegal aliens who are working at those locations while their women are back in the old country.

As for this whole discussion, even at Sosuave, there are discussions about how bad the American dating situation is. But the difference is that men there are still competing in the American dating market, and thus there is only that market, and no comparison can be made to other markets. Of course, there are quite a few men at Sosuave who sing the praises of the foreign dating market, and speak of an ongoing or future interest in going foreign.

It is only going to be sites, such as this, that are about dating foreign women that are going to talk about the bad American dating situation. Of course, by the time a man has made the transition to the foreign market, he is in little mood to dip back into the American market.

I think that I can speak for most men, that the only reason we have not moved to a foreign country (or at least are in a position of traveling very frequently for long periods) is that we are not at the point in our lives of being financially secure enough to do so. I know that once I am at that point, I plan to spend about half the year in Eastern Europe (until I would find a girlfriend or wife, at which time I would spend even more, or perhaps have her move with me to the USA.)
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hey ok...

Postby track2004_400meters1 » Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:04 am

why dont we just pour chocolate all over the floor and have chunk eat his way through?
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Postby momopi » Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:06 am

SaturdayNightSpecial wrote:Then what in your opinion would be the criteria to rate someone as the top 20% alpha male?


I'd probably rate by socio-economic status and not number of women the guy sleeps with. i.e. say if we look at a poor residental "projects" complex, where some men sell dope and have multiple GF's -- I wouldn't rate them in the top 20% of society. But this is a complicated topic and no single criteria would cover it.

Let's look at a few scenarios:

I know several Taiwanese male doctors and dentists locally. They're tall, decent looking, and single. My dry-sister (not related) and couple female freinds went after them and they brushed the girls off, because they had women hitting on them quite often and can care less. My buddy's sister chased her dentist husband for 2 years before he dated & eventually married her. So you could say that men who attained certain status are winners because they no longer need to chase women, because women chase them. These men don't brag to outsiders. They're shrewed enough to maintain apperances.

Winston mentioned that his cousin is a doctor (?) and never dated before he married. If he had wanted to get hitched earlier, I think match makers would've been knocking down his parents door with offers. But I have a feeling that his cousin is someone who prefers yuanfen. For those who don't understand the concept, it has no simple direct English translation, but you can read about it here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuanfen

Most people know that generally speaking, the better educated you are, the more $$ you make. Less well known, 8.9% of US population has post-graduate degrees, but constituted 16% of votes in elections. The better educated and better paid % of the population is also better represented by professional organizations in political lobbies. This "power" is often subtle, they don't protest publically like teacher's unions. They do things quietly and get laws, amendments, and changes enacted in their factor, such as how medicare pays for certain radiology procedures. This helps them to get inside a "winner's circle" and stay there.

In the Asian American subculture, we joke that men are rated by the "3H's" -- Height, Handsome, and High income. If you're tall and good looking, women would date but not marry you. If you're rich but short and ugly, you end up with gold diggers, or women who'd stay for economic reasons. Someone who has all 3H's is more likely to be in the "alpha' group. Just as guys want to chase the top xx% good looking women, women want to chase the top xx% eligible men too.

============

It's getting late and my brain is scrambled, so I'll cut it short. We can divvy the men into 3 generalized categories:

Alpha
Beta
Omega

Alpha -- men in the alpha group has better access to women in the middle to upper class category. They tend to be better educated and better paid. Alpha's are financially savvy, use $ to make $, and have political associations to help the maintain their status. Women dress up and chase alpha's to "marry up".

Beta -- men in the beta group pay deference to alpha's. The difference is that women chase alpha's vs. beta men has to chase women. Some beta men have the magical "game" and is succesful with women, but they still have to do the chasing and will never attain alpha's socio-economic status. Most beta men have OK dating lives, few do better and few do worse. Most get married and have families.

Omega -- omega men are considered undesirable, dysgenic, and "marrying down" by women. Men could fall in this category because of poverty, birth defects/handicaps, bad 3H's, mental issues, vibes that repulse women, etc. In some areas, omega status is the result of racial, class, or religious discrmination, such as the Buraku people in Japan.


Class mobility -- it's very possible to "move up" through education, working smart, and/or relocating to another place where the class or socio-economic structure benefits you. i.e. in America we can care less if your ancestors tanned leather hides and were from lower caste. You can work as a cook and nobody will complain that you're "ritually impure" because of your linege.

==============

OK that's it, I'm off to bed. It's almost 4am, so don't hate me if anything I wrote doesn't make sense. ;p
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