Why PUA doesn't work but Global Dating does!

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skeptic
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Post by skeptic »

Winston wrote:It promises a formula of techniques that will "create" attraction. Yet in reality attraction doesn't work that way. Being cocky and funny (David DeAngelo's approach), for example, may get some airhead girls to laugh at you, but it's not going to create attraction from a girl who isn't attracted to you. Get real.
You've just mentioned a major keyword: "attraction". Yes, so-called PUA might not be able to change that factor. If a woman is not attracted to you, then that's what it is - she's not attracted. And if she is attracted, then things would have probably been that way even without PUA. But how does that help in global dating? If you're attractive enough to get someone abroad, I'm sure you would be able to get someone at home. And, if a foreign woman is not attracted to you, she would not feel the other way even if she was American. Perhaps PUA doesn't make your more attractive. But does globad dating do so?
Winston wrote:Best of all, it allows you to get what YOU want while being yourself at the same time!
Really? What if I want a woman who lives where I live, thus granting myself a way to develop a relationship in a natural way, that is, without time constraints or excessive expenses (and without having to wait for the INS to approve your partner's entry to the U.S.) Unfortunately, global dating does not cater for this desire.
It's not a technique, but a matter of geography, a global path of going where you are wanted and where you will get the women you want.
Again, what if an Amerircan guy wants a woman who speaks his language fluently, with no accent? What if he wants someone without cultural barrier? You say he "lives in a box"? I say he wants what he naturally deserves, that is, to be as emotionally intimate with his partner as humanly possible. And global dating seems to be a total anti-thesis for that. (While this particular problem would not apply to me in countries such as Russia or Belarus, or Russian-speaking community in Israel, the geographical and financial issues associated with global dating would still fully apply).

I have no point to argue with you about the mentality of American vs foreign women. But do you really believe their hormones work differently? If a particular guy is unattractive for American girls, what basis do you have to believe he'll be attractive for foreign ones?
You can run away from America, but you CAN'T run away from yourself.
Linc4Love
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Post by Linc4Love »

skeptic wrote:Again, what if an Amerircan guy wants a woman who speaks his language fluently, with no accent? What if he wants someone without cultural barrier? You say he "lives in a box"? I say he wants what he naturally deserves, that is, to be as emotionally intimate with his partner as humanly possible. And global dating seems to be a total anti-thesis for that. (While this particular problem would not apply to me in countries such as Russia or Belarus, or Russian-speaking community in Israel, the geographical and financial issues associated with global dating would still fully apply).

Yeah we don't want that, we'd much prefer to travel 10,000 miles and spend thousands of dollars on a foreign bride who speaks not a word of English and take the chance that she has less than benevolent reasons for wanting to hook up with an American, despite the ample and abundant opportunities to date a sweet wubsie woo here in America. That's just how we roll.
I have no point to argue with you about the mentality of American vs foreign women. But do you really believe their hormones work differently? If a particular guy is unattractive for American girls, what basis do you have to believe he'll be attractive for foreign ones?
Are you sure you don't have a vagina?

It's not that many of us are unattractive to American women, it's that THEY are unattractive to us. The traits that we are looking for in a woman is virtually nonexistent here compared to overseas. Why don't you try actually spend some time dating a few girls here and then decide who is right before spouting your mouth off and looking like an idiot to the rest of us.
skeptic
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Post by skeptic »

Linc4Love wrote:It's not that many of us are unattractive to American women, it's that THEY are unattractive to us. The traits that we are looking for in a woman is virtually nonexistent here compared to overseas. Why don't you try actually spend some time dating a few girls here and then decide who is right before spouting your mouth off and looking like an idiot to the rest of us.
Apparently, your distorted view is a cover to your own insecurities. I see normal men together with beautiful women walking down the streets. If you live in a world of your own fantasy in response to some American women dumping you, it's your problem, not theirs and not their boyfriends'. Apparently their boyfriends have a vagina - after all they found them attractive. Go ahead, spends tens of thousands of bucks for pursing a foreign dream - only to discover that losership knows no national borders.
Last edited by skeptic on August 1st, 2010, 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
You can run away from America, but you CAN'T run away from yourself.
Free
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Post by Free »

Interesting. These few of the bunch mentioned below happen to share a commonality in their double-helix. Coincidence?
Like the coincidences of the same common denominators of folks disproportionately in the media, government, banking, med/psych (as well as the barbaric snipping massively pushed which does in fact disrupt the natural flow of things leaving many of both partners not fully fulfilled, and proven NOT to help in safety), schooling, and a few other key fields. It can be clear how conspiracy theories can actually tend to be conspiracy facts. Forget the distractions of general concepts of Illum, BB, Roth., etc. They're too general, too vague and thus difficult to handle. Instead, begin the long list of specific individuals. The names. Look at the damage at the scenes and the evidence left behind. Also look at who is benefiting in things.

In regards to this specific thread:

Gloria Steinem (one of the head leaders of that awful, destructive to the fabric of society starting at the familial level, feminism, therefore part of the reason men seem to need some special tactics as pushed in the PUA industry).

Ross Jeffries
David De Angelo (real name Eben Pagan)
Neil Strauss

etc....

Dig deeper, these individuals and others in other fields, where we're seeing so much damage, do in fact share a common denominator. No they don't all get together in some secret room, but indirectly they're on the same team. Certainly too, people of all sorts can be to blame, but the trails left behind by much of the destruction happen to be disproportionately by certain ones.

There are other forums for these issues.

I'm here at this forum specifically in regards to the female / relationship issues and how life in areas abroad differ, or sadly are the same in ways.

These issues are VERY important. Couples make a family, families make a community/town, towns makes regions, regions make countries.
Start with a broken couple due to unbalanced feminist issues for example, problems due to finances (see banking, theft, excess taxes), thus problematic children/families, problem of broken communities, broken regions, and no wonder countries are falling apart.

Women may think they are free, but overall, they will not benefit. It would be much easier for them to stick to roles and traditions.

.02
"Give me liberty or give me death" - Patrick Henry
Linc4Love
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Post by Linc4Love »

skeptic wrote:
Linc4Love wrote:It's not that many of us are unattractive to American women, it's that THEY are unattractive to us. The traits that we are looking for in a woman is virtually nonexistent here compared to overseas. Why don't you try actually spend some time dating a few girls here and then decide who is right before spouting your mouth off and looking like an idiot to the rest of us.
Apparently, your distorted view is a cover to your own insecurities. I see normal men together with beautiful women walking down the streets. If you live in a world of your own fantasy in response to some American women dumping you, it's your problem, not theirs and not their boyfriends'. Apparently their boyfriends have a vagina - after all they found them attractive. Go ahead, spends tens of thousands of bucks for pursing a foreign dream - only to discover that losership knows no national borders.
Again, until you've actually dated a few American women you have nothing to say. Please tell me you are not basing your assertions on a few walks in Central Park, because that's f***ing retarded. How about actually asking all these normal looking dudes about the gorgeous women they're with and getting the REAL story? I would bet A) they're related and not dating, B) The guy is rich and she's a gold digger (which is usually the case in NYC), C) The guy is gay and they're buddies, D) she's a paid prostitute/escort, and so on.

Again, try actually DATING a few of these American women and THEN get back to us. If you STILL feel the same way after having a few dates under your belt I'll take you more seriously.
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have2fly
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hmmm

Post by have2fly »

Guys, don't mind Skeptic. I know him from another board and he is a middle age Jewish guy (seems to be late 30's) who is religious and trying to find a loved one, but with no luck. While his friends did find "good wives" in his opinion, so he is bashing himself and he is completely sure that so many people around him are happy because he sees them on the street :) He is very naive and just cannot take the idea of society in the USA being retarded socially and emotionally. I think one reason behind it is because he grew up in Russian-speaking NYC and is considering his life to be religiously free and his butt to be safe. However, he never lived in "real America" where immigrants are very few in number and almost no russian speakers. I lived in the Midwest, I know EXACTLY what this web site and guys are talking about. But some people just will not think outside of the box and blindly follow what U.S. media tells them - "if you don't get laid - blame yourself".

Another thing I suspect - he is a virgin, as he stated on the other board that "losing virginity does not mean much, getting married means everything" :)

As counter argument about his statement that "loser will be a loser everywhere" - I dated, f***ed, kissed and flirted with all kinds of immigrant women, not just Russian-speaking. I had great luck with Chinese, Russian, Ukrainian, Moldovan, Brazilian, Kazakh, Uzbek, Polish, Romanian girls and some American chicks I picked up at frat parties were good too. But in general, I had no connection, no luck with American chicks, not because I am a "loser", but because I am mentally emotional, open, friendly, funny in a smart way that American chicks just do not understand.
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Winston
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Post by Winston »

Check this out. Steve showed me this blog about the PUA scam. It's very informative.

http://lifestylejourney.blogspot.com/20 ... -scam.html

This part makes a lot of sense:

"What's missing in virtually all the PUA methods is proof that they work on a consistent and reproducible basis. So you see, it's not a skill, like welding or gymnastics, because these skills are consistent and reproducible. A trained welder, or gymnast can reproduce their skills perfectly (or almost perfectly) every time. But for PUA methods, you must repeat your efforts over and over to be successful (even the veterans). For example, let's say a guy goes out and does tons of approaches after reading about some PUA's method. Result: He eventually gets laid. He then lauds the method as the greatest thing since sliced bread. But really, the reason he got laid was BECAUSE he did tons of approaches. Pretty much anything will work if you do it enough. It's called statistics. It is for this reason that PUA methods are not a skill like any other, but rather the law of averages masquerading as a skill.

A common way the PUA industry deflects criticism is by saying you didn't approach enough. But it's like someone selling you the winning lottery numbers, and then telling you that you have to play them many, many times to be guaranteed success.

You are not really doing anything powerful by practicing PUA methods, other than just building up a pain-tolerance for doing lots of approaches; with perhaps some skew towards certain types of women which are most compatible with your style and personality."
Last edited by Winston on December 26th, 2010, 11:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Fenix
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Post by Fenix »

PUA is a short-term solution for a long-term problem. PUA is one of the greatest scams ever created. The so-called gurus never teach men how to get women for long-term relationships. They only tell you or try to tell you how to get laid. I wish the PUA movement would die a miserable death.
globetrotter
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Post by globetrotter »

I know him from another board and he is a middle age Jewish guy (seems to be late 30's)
This reveals you to be in your mid 20's, for someone in his late 30's is not middle aged.

That's 45 to 60.

60 is old.

Anyone under 40 is young and can keep up with most 18 year olds if in shape. At 55 not so likely. Think of the age range of pro athletes. That's who is 'young'.
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Post by Grunt »

The whole PUA topic reeks of inverted-feminism. Or, whatever sex can act more phony and bizarre than the other is the "winner". For f***s sake be yourself. If she isnt into you, no amount of gymnastics is going to change that. Added to it, if she aint into you, you just dodged a bullet! Count your blessings and move on. And dont gauge much on what happens in America, because 99.99% of all American females are batshit insane.
How to deal with newbies that talk much but do little.

Pics or it didn't happen.

YES/NO

Cool story, bro.

Problem solved.
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Winston
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Post by Winston »

http://www.puahate.com/archive/index.php/t-3558.html

25+ Gold Articles Against The Seduction Community

A Long List Of Ways The Seduction Community Can Make You Weird.
feel free to add your own. just follw the format

1.Knowing The Seduction Community Is Flawed Is Pointless If You Don't Act On It
http://www.datinggroundwork.com/awareofweirdness

2.You Don't Have To Buy Any Advice To Get Better With Women
http://www.datinggroundwork.com/nopurchases

3.Common Magic Bullets That Guys Hope Will Cure Their Fear Of Women
http://www.datinggroundwork.com/magicbullet

4.The New Viewpoint
http://postmodernvanguard.com/thenewpic ... wviewpoint

5.The Assumptions of the Seduction Community
http://www.feministcritics.org/blog/abo ... p-artists/

6.Myths of the Seduction Community
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/archive/in ... 67186.html

7."Game" seemed like the Ultimate a\Answer to a Poor social Life and Lack of w\Women in my life
http://www.happierabroad.com/phpBB2/vie ... php?t=6989

8.The Truth of “Community PUAs (PDF)
http://www.toosmarttofail.com/puatruths.pdf

9.The Games We Play with PUAs
http://www.leftos.com/forum/view/356

10.My Time in the Seduction Community
http://www.xamuel.com/seduction-community/

11.The Seduction Community: A Confusing Mess
http://www.kissntale.com/2007/03/17/the ... sing-mess/

12.Progress never Seduction Community [/U
http://communitymblog.co.cc/seduction-c ... tine-game/

13. Elana Clift, “Picking Up and Acting Out: Politics of Masculinity in the Seduction Community. -PDF
https://webspace.utexas.edu/ejc329/Elan ... iq=-wk7fye

14.The Sad Face of the Seduction Community
http://www.thedicknotist.net/

15.The Disenchanted World: The Seduction community
http://thedisenchantedworld.blogspot.co ... rcade.html

16.Understanding The Seduction Community
http://lifestylejourney.blogspot.com/20 ... unity.html

17.Do guys who study seduction have an unfair advatage over women?
http://www.mindcontrolresources.com/iss ... owomen.pdf

19.Cameron Teone: Pros & Cons of The Seduction Community Part II, “The Dark Side!�
http://www.datingsecretsformen.com/2009 ... dark-side/

20.Cognitive dissonance in the Seduction Community
http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/07/30/co ... community/

21.Is the seduction community a scam?
http://hubpages.com/hub/Is-the-seductio ... ity-a-scam

22."The Game" "Pickup Artists" and "The Seduction Community"
http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?12,74041,page=1

23.Exposed: Disgusting Marketing Scams And Con Games OThe Seduction/Pick-up Gurus, Exposed
http://www.seduction.com/blog/exposed-d ... s-exposed/

24.Pickup Artist Scam?
http://pickupartistsassociation.org/370 ... ists-scam/

25.Why Pick-Up Game Hurts Everyone Except the Guy Shilling Books
http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blog ... ing-books/

26.Why Aren't There More Female Pickup Artists?
http://jezebel.com/5484896/why-arent-th ... up-artists
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lovesong
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Post by lovesong »

Winston, while you bring up some good points and I thank you for starting this wonderful and informative website, I have to respectfully disagree with you on other points. I'd also say it's a little hypocritical considering you are actually featured on one pua website:

http://www.asianpua.com

You're in that list but perhaps somebody just put your profile up there without your permission.

Now in regards to the points that I agree/disagree with you:

Yes, a big part of PUA is marketing/money making/short term solution but one has to be specific when referring to PUA and which methods/gurus you're referring to. For example if you mean Mystery/Game ala Style, yes they promote superficial, lame techniques for starting conversations, peacocking, etc. But, instead of feeling negative about it, why not try to understand the core of what those specific methods hope to accomplish and why they're effective. For example, wearing a boa feather hat might not be your style and by pushing yourself to wear one that is not truly your style renders you fake. But, if you look at the core of why it is effective, it's because it shows style. For you, it might be an Armani suit, for another it might be ripped jeans and a rock band shirt. Point is to have style that represents your true best self. In fact, in Mystery's book, he even emphasizes many of these core points but many choose to focus on the superficial techniques.

As for David DeAngelo, he was the first person in my whole life to suggest that one should consider moving to a metropolitan city to meet women if their current location doesn't have a lot of women. Sounds similar to someone else. You and this website. While his cocky funny thing might not be your schtick, he actually gave the same advice you gave regarding logistics (PUA term)

As for Ross Jeffries, he promotes hypnosis by using sexually charged words. But at the root of it, it's all about talking of positive things that put a girl in a happy mood. So say you meet a girl for the first time, do you think she'll enjoy your company if you talk about the cold war or the Subprime liquidity crisis of 2007 and it's effects on the global economy or if you talk about her favorite food or hobby? Women are moody so if you talk about happy stuff, it'll only help you. This is what I learned from Ross Jeffries.

To me, PUA is marketing but I think in the context of dating, we're all marketing ourselves and PUA is only meant to help us market ourselves in the best light. Here's where I agree with you. If you're being dishonest and lying, then it's a waste of time.
If you are marketing yourself, your true self in the best light, there's nothing wrong with it.

Okay, all for now.
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Winston
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Re: Why PUA doesn't work but Global Dating does!

Post by Winston »

Check out this stupid PUA video from some dumb Asian guy. He claims that girls are like cats and you have to treat them as such. Though girls do have some similar traits to cats, that info alone is useless. Then at the end he says that the key to getting girls is to not show interest in them, just like cats will like you if you don't show interest in them too. WTF? That's stupid. A girl who doesn't like you is NOT gonna suddenly become into you just because you show no interest in her. That is fake, stupid and totally fictional! It's like something out of a comedy show, not reality. If a girl already likes you or is into you, and you show disinterest, it will frustrate her and make her want you a little more, yeah, but she has to ALREADY like you beforehand. Duh!

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"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne
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Winston
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Re: Why PUA doesn't work but Global Dating does!

Post by Winston »

Brilliant summary about PUA. Very spot on.

viewtopic.php?p=216973#p216973
lasttry wrote:
February 3rd, 2015, 6:24 pm
Why didn't you say RooshV is OVER moderated instead of HEAVILY moderated? Anyone who disagrees with the party line there gets banned. It's pathetic. Worse than the worst teenage girls...

Your definition of game is not the standard one. Game comes from the "mind games" pimps play on their whores. Your value is based on what you really are: your objective looks, your objective physical fitness, your objective intelligence, your objective wealth, your objective social status, etc. I repeated the word objective over and over to emphasize that we are talking about reality, rather than perception. Obviously, for something like social status, reality depends on perception, so determining objective value is difficult.

Woman are very irrational in how they evaluate a man's value. The idea of "game" is to exploit this irrationality so as to make yourself appear to have higher value in the eyes of the woman than what you really have. The reason game is suck a crock is that the women eventually see through the deception. Game works best with stupid and inexperienced women. Women who've been around the block a few times and have some natural intelligence tend to see right through game.

If your objective value is high, then there is no need for game. There are some threads on RooshV where a guy put a handsome elite-class frat-boy photo on tinder. Lo and behold, no matter what he did, the babes responded. When your natural self is highly desireable, you don't have to pretend to be something you're not. Honesty is by far the best policy for the 1% types. It the guys whose real self is not too desirable who have to pretend to be something they are not. That's what game boils down to: making yourself appear to be better than you are.

Game, by my definition, exists and has always existed and will continue to exist as long as there are stupid women who can be easily bamboozled. However, game will never be more than marginally effective. You'll be able to get short-term relationships with women who wouldn't be attracted to you without game, but they'll eventually see through your game and that's the end of things. If you don't care about long-term relationships, fine. It's typically guys who don't know beans about sex who don't care about long-term relationships, since really good sex takes time to develop. In the long run, like all compulsive liars, men who practice game develop a truly despicable personality. Aspiring to be great at game is like aspiring to be a great con man.

The alternative to game is to: (a) improve those aspects of yourself that can be improved, so that you reach your genetic potential of desirability; (b) learn to accept those aspects of yourself that cannot be improved. (Similar to the AA serenity prayer: "change the things I can change, accept the things I cannot change".) Then be honest about who you are. This approach will tend to repel the skanks and attract the better women.
Check out my FUN video clips in Russia and SE Asia and Female Encounters of the Foreign Kind video series and Full Russia Trip Videos!

Join my Dating Site to meet thousands of legit foreign girls at low cost!

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne
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Re: Why PUA doesn't work but Global Dating does!

Post by fdiv »

LOL, PUA. There used to be stuff that worked that really just amounted to gold digger baiting. That is: rent an exotic car, wear knockoff designer clothing, tell bs about being some mover and shaker that is loaded, rent a nice place anonymously, etc. Then split when you're done. That might have worked for a time, but still put the guy at risk for some retaliation. Basically act like a f***ing rapper in a video --- rented everything, fake image, everything lies. That's about as deep as real PUA got. That was well before that "The Game" book and all these hipsters started selling their mystical voodoo chants, potions and bullshit.
options in the US: maybe have a shot at a angry bluehaired landwhale and then, prison :roll:
options abroad: limitless 8)
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