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Why PUA doesn't work but Global Dating does!

Discuss and talk about any general topic.

Moderators: jamesbond, fschmidt

Postby skeptic » Sun Aug 01, 2010 2:00 pm

Winston wrote:It promises a formula of techniques that will "create" attraction. Yet in reality attraction doesn't work that way. Being cocky and funny (David DeAngelo's approach), for example, may get some airhead girls to laugh at you, but it's not going to create attraction from a girl who isn't attracted to you. Get real.


You've just mentioned a major keyword: "attraction". Yes, so-called PUA might not be able to change that factor. If a woman is not attracted to you, then that's what it is - she's not attracted. And if she is attracted, then things would have probably been that way even without PUA. But how does that help in global dating? If you're attractive enough to get someone abroad, I'm sure you would be able to get someone at home. And, if a foreign woman is not attracted to you, she would not feel the other way even if she was American. Perhaps PUA doesn't make your more attractive. But does globad dating do so?

Winston wrote:Best of all, it allows you to get what YOU want while being yourself at the same time!


Really? What if I want a woman who lives where I live, thus granting myself a way to develop a relationship in a natural way, that is, without time constraints or excessive expenses (and without having to wait for the INS to approve your partner's entry to the U.S.) Unfortunately, global dating does not cater for this desire.

It's not a technique, but a matter of geography, a global path of going where you are wanted and where you will get the women you want.


Again, what if an Amerircan guy wants a woman who speaks his language fluently, with no accent? What if he wants someone without cultural barrier? You say he "lives in a box"? I say he wants what he naturally deserves, that is, to be as emotionally intimate with his partner as humanly possible. And global dating seems to be a total anti-thesis for that. (While this particular problem would not apply to me in countries such as Russia or Belarus, or Russian-speaking community in Israel, the geographical and financial issues associated with global dating would still fully apply).

I have no point to argue with you about the mentality of American vs foreign women. But do you really believe their hormones work differently? If a particular guy is unattractive for American girls, what basis do you have to believe he'll be attractive for foreign ones?
You can run away from America, but you CAN'T run away from yourself.
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Postby Linc4Love » Sun Aug 01, 2010 6:54 pm

skeptic wrote:Again, what if an Amerircan guy wants a woman who speaks his language fluently, with no accent? What if he wants someone without cultural barrier? You say he "lives in a box"? I say he wants what he naturally deserves, that is, to be as emotionally intimate with his partner as humanly possible. And global dating seems to be a total anti-thesis for that. (While this particular problem would not apply to me in countries such as Russia or Belarus, or Russian-speaking community in Israel, the geographical and financial issues associated with global dating would still fully apply).



Yeah we don't want that, we'd much prefer to travel 10,000 miles and spend thousands of dollars on a foreign bride who speaks not a word of English and take the chance that she has less than benevolent reasons for wanting to hook up with an American, despite the ample and abundant opportunities to date a sweet wubsie woo here in America. That's just how we roll.

I have no point to argue with you about the mentality of American vs foreign women. But do you really believe their hormones work differently? If a particular guy is unattractive for American girls, what basis do you have to believe he'll be attractive for foreign ones?


Are you sure you don't have a vagina?

It's not that many of us are unattractive to American women, it's that THEY are unattractive to us. The traits that we are looking for in a woman is virtually nonexistent here compared to overseas. Why don't you try actually spend some time dating a few girls here and then decide who is right before spouting your mouth off and looking like an idiot to the rest of us.
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Postby skeptic » Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:25 pm

Linc4Love wrote:It's not that many of us are unattractive to American women, it's that THEY are unattractive to us. The traits that we are looking for in a woman is virtually nonexistent here compared to overseas. Why don't you try actually spend some time dating a few girls here and then decide who is right before spouting your mouth off and looking like an idiot to the rest of us.


Apparently, your distorted view is a cover to your own insecurities. I see normal men together with beautiful women walking down the streets. If you live in a world of your own fantasy in response to some American women dumping you, it's your problem, not theirs and not their boyfriends'. Apparently their boyfriends have a vagina - after all they found them attractive. Go ahead, spends tens of thousands of bucks for pursing a foreign dream - only to discover that losership knows no national borders.
Last edited by skeptic on Mon Aug 02, 2010 3:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Free » Sun Aug 01, 2010 9:44 pm

Interesting. These few of the bunch mentioned below happen to share a commonality in their double-helix. Coincidence?
Like the coincidences of the same common denominators of folks disproportionately in the media, government, banking, med/psych (as well as the barbaric snipping massively pushed which does in fact disrupt the natural flow of things leaving many of both partners not fully fulfilled, and proven NOT to help in safety), schooling, and a few other key fields. It can be clear how conspiracy theories can actually tend to be conspiracy facts. Forget the distractions of general concepts of Illum, BB, Roth., etc. They're too general, too vague and thus difficult to handle. Instead, begin the long list of specific individuals. The names. Look at the damage at the scenes and the evidence left behind. Also look at who is benefiting in things.

In regards to this specific thread:

Gloria Steinem (one of the head leaders of that awful, destructive to the fabric of society starting at the familial level, feminism, therefore part of the reason men seem to need some special tactics as pushed in the PUA industry).

Ross Jeffries
David De Angelo (real name Eben Pagan)
Neil Strauss

etc....

Dig deeper, these individuals and others in other fields, where we're seeing so much damage, do in fact share a common denominator. No they don't all get together in some secret room, but indirectly they're on the same team. Certainly too, people of all sorts can be to blame, but the trails left behind by much of the destruction happen to be disproportionately by certain ones.

There are other forums for these issues.

I'm here at this forum specifically in regards to the female / relationship issues and how life in areas abroad differ, or sadly are the same in ways.

These issues are VERY important. Couples make a family, families make a community/town, towns makes regions, regions make countries.
Start with a broken couple due to unbalanced feminist issues for example, problems due to finances (see banking, theft, excess taxes), thus problematic children/families, problem of broken communities, broken regions, and no wonder countries are falling apart.

Women may think they are free, but overall, they will not benefit. It would be much easier for them to stick to roles and traditions.

.02
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Postby Linc4Love » Mon Aug 02, 2010 5:40 pm

skeptic wrote:
Linc4Love wrote:It's not that many of us are unattractive to American women, it's that THEY are unattractive to us. The traits that we are looking for in a woman is virtually nonexistent here compared to overseas. Why don't you try actually spend some time dating a few girls here and then decide who is right before spouting your mouth off and looking like an idiot to the rest of us.


Apparently, your distorted view is a cover to your own insecurities. I see normal men together with beautiful women walking down the streets. If you live in a world of your own fantasy in response to some American women dumping you, it's your problem, not theirs and not their boyfriends'. Apparently their boyfriends have a vagina - after all they found them attractive. Go ahead, spends tens of thousands of bucks for pursing a foreign dream - only to discover that losership knows no national borders.


Again, until you've actually dated a few American women you have nothing to say. Please tell me you are not basing your assertions on a few walks in Central Park, because that's f***ing retarded. How about actually asking all these normal looking dudes about the gorgeous women they're with and getting the REAL story? I would bet A) they're related and not dating, B) The guy is rich and she's a gold digger (which is usually the case in NYC), C) The guy is gay and they're buddies, D) she's a paid prostitute/escort, and so on.

Again, try actually DATING a few of these American women and THEN get back to us. If you STILL feel the same way after having a few dates under your belt I'll take you more seriously.
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hmmm

Postby have2fly » Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:32 pm

Guys, don't mind Skeptic. I know him from another board and he is a middle age Jewish guy (seems to be late 30's) who is religious and trying to find a loved one, but with no luck. While his friends did find "good wives" in his opinion, so he is bashing himself and he is completely sure that so many people around him are happy because he sees them on the street :) He is very naive and just cannot take the idea of society in the USA being retarded socially and emotionally. I think one reason behind it is because he grew up in Russian-speaking NYC and is considering his life to be religiously free and his butt to be safe. However, he never lived in "real America" where immigrants are very few in number and almost no russian speakers. I lived in the Midwest, I know EXACTLY what this web site and guys are talking about. But some people just will not think outside of the box and blindly follow what U.S. media tells them - "if you don't get laid - blame yourself".

Another thing I suspect - he is a virgin, as he stated on the other board that "losing virginity does not mean much, getting married means everything" :)

As counter argument about his statement that "loser will be a loser everywhere" - I dated, f***ed, kissed and flirted with all kinds of immigrant women, not just Russian-speaking. I had great luck with Chinese, Russian, Ukrainian, Moldovan, Brazilian, Kazakh, Uzbek, Polish, Romanian girls and some American chicks I picked up at frat parties were good too. But in general, I had no connection, no luck with American chicks, not because I am a "loser", but because I am mentally emotional, open, friendly, funny in a smart way that American chicks just do not understand.
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Postby Winston » Mon Dec 27, 2010 7:05 am

Check this out. Steve showed me this blog about the PUA scam. It's very informative.

http://lifestylejourney.blogspot.com/20 ... -scam.html

This part makes a lot of sense:

"What's missing in virtually all the PUA methods is proof that they work on a consistent and reproducible basis. So you see, it's not a skill, like welding or gymnastics, because these skills are consistent and reproducible. A trained welder, or gymnast can reproduce their skills perfectly (or almost perfectly) every time. But for PUA methods, you must repeat your efforts over and over to be successful (even the veterans). For example, let's say a guy goes out and does tons of approaches after reading about some PUA's method. Result: He eventually gets laid. He then lauds the method as the greatest thing since sliced bread. But really, the reason he got laid was BECAUSE he did tons of approaches. Pretty much anything will work if you do it enough. It's called statistics. It is for this reason that PUA methods are not a skill like any other, but rather the law of averages masquerading as a skill.

A common way the PUA industry deflects criticism is by saying you didn't approach enough. But it's like someone selling you the winning lottery numbers, and then telling you that you have to play them many, many times to be guaranteed success.

You are not really doing anything powerful by practicing PUA methods, other than just building up a pain-tolerance for doing lots of approaches; with perhaps some skew towards certain types of women which are most compatible with your style and personality."
Last edited by Winston on Mon Dec 27, 2010 7:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Fenix » Mon Dec 27, 2010 7:20 am

PUA is a short-term solution for a long-term problem. PUA is one of the greatest scams ever created. The so-called gurus never teach men how to get women for long-term relationships. They only tell you or try to tell you how to get laid. I wish the PUA movement would die a miserable death.
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Postby globetrotter » Mon Dec 27, 2010 7:33 am

I know him from another board and he is a middle age Jewish guy (seems to be late 30's)


This reveals you to be in your mid 20's, for someone in his late 30's is not middle aged.

That's 45 to 60.

60 is old.

Anyone under 40 is young and can keep up with most 18 year olds if in shape. At 55 not so likely. Think of the age range of pro athletes. That's who is 'young'.
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Postby Grunt » Sat Jan 01, 2011 9:20 pm

The whole PUA topic reeks of inverted-feminism. Or, whatever sex can act more phony and bizarre than the other is the "winner". For f***s sake be yourself. If she isnt into you, no amount of gymnastics is going to change that. Added to it, if she aint into you, you just dodged a bullet! Count your blessings and move on. And dont gauge much on what happens in America, because 99.99% of all American females are batshit insane.
How to deal with newbies that talk much but do little.

Pics or it didn't happen.

YES/NO

Cool story, bro.

Problem solved.
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Postby Winston » Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:35 pm

http://www.puahate.com/archive/index.php/t-3558.html

25+ Gold Articles Against The Seduction Community

A Long List Of Ways The Seduction Community Can Make You Weird.
feel free to add your own. just follw the format

1.Knowing The Seduction Community Is Flawed Is Pointless If You Don't Act On It
http://www.datinggroundwork.com/awareofweirdness

2.You Don't Have To Buy Any Advice To Get Better With Women
http://www.datinggroundwork.com/nopurchases

3.Common Magic Bullets That Guys Hope Will Cure Their Fear Of Women
http://www.datinggroundwork.com/magicbullet

4.The New Viewpoint
http://postmodernvanguard.com/thenewpic ... wviewpoint

5.The Assumptions of the Seduction Community
http://www.feministcritics.org/blog/abo ... p-artists/

6.Myths of the Seduction Community
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/archive/in ... 67186.html

7."Game" seemed like the Ultimate a\Answer to a Poor social Life and Lack of w\Women in my life
http://www.happierabroad.com/phpBB2/vie ... php?t=6989

8.The Truth of “Community PUAs (PDF)
http://www.toosmarttofail.com/puatruths.pdf

9.The Games We Play with PUAs
http://www.leftos.com/forum/view/356

10.My Time in the Seduction Community
http://www.xamuel.com/seduction-community/

11.The Seduction Community: A Confusing Mess
http://www.kissntale.com/2007/03/17/the ... sing-mess/

12.Progress never Seduction Community [/U
http://communitymblog.co.cc/seduction-c ... tine-game/

13.[U] Elana Clift, “Picking Up and Acting Out: Politics of Masculinity in the Seduction Community. -PDF
https://webspace.utexas.edu/ejc329/Elan ... iq=-wk7fye

14.The Sad Face of the Seduction Community
http://www.thedicknotist.net/

15.The Disenchanted World: The Seduction community
http://thedisenchantedworld.blogspot.co ... rcade.html

16.Understanding The Seduction Community
http://lifestylejourney.blogspot.com/20 ... unity.html

17.Do guys who study seduction have an unfair advatage over women?
http://www.mindcontrolresources.com/iss ... owomen.pdf

19.Cameron Teone: Pros & Cons of The Seduction Community Part II, “The Dark Side!â€￾
http://www.datingsecretsformen.com/2009 ... dark-side/

20.Cognitive dissonance in the Seduction Community
http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/07/30/co ... community/

21.Is the seduction community a scam?
http://hubpages.com/hub/Is-the-seductio ... ity-a-scam

22."The Game" "Pickup Artists" and "The Seduction Community"
http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?12,74041,page=1

23.Exposed: Disgusting Marketing Scams And Con Games OThe Seduction/Pick-up Gurus, Exposed
http://www.seduction.com/blog/exposed-d ... s-exposed/

24.Pickup Artist Scam?
http://pickupartistsassociation.org/370 ... ists-scam/

25.Why Pick-Up Game Hurts Everyone Except the Guy Shilling Books
http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blog ... ing-books/

26.Why Aren't There More Female Pickup Artists?
http://jezebel.com/5484896/why-arent-th ... up-artists
Check out the latest posts in our blog The Happier Abroaders.

Don't forget my HA Grand Ebook and Dating Sites!

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Postby lovesong » Tue Apr 19, 2011 7:45 am

Winston, while you bring up some good points and I thank you for starting this wonderful and informative website, I have to respectfully disagree with you on other points. I'd also say it's a little hypocritical considering you are actually featured on one pua website:

http://www.asianpua.com

You're in that list but perhaps somebody just put your profile up there without your permission.

Now in regards to the points that I agree/disagree with you:

Yes, a big part of PUA is marketing/money making/short term solution but one has to be specific when referring to PUA and which methods/gurus you're referring to. For example if you mean Mystery/Game ala Style, yes they promote superficial, lame techniques for starting conversations, peacocking, etc. But, instead of feeling negative about it, why not try to understand the core of what those specific methods hope to accomplish and why they're effective. For example, wearing a boa feather hat might not be your style and by pushing yourself to wear one that is not truly your style renders you fake. But, if you look at the core of why it is effective, it's because it shows style. For you, it might be an Armani suit, for another it might be ripped jeans and a rock band shirt. Point is to have style that represents your true best self. In fact, in Mystery's book, he even emphasizes many of these core points but many choose to focus on the superficial techniques.

As for David DeAngelo, he was the first person in my whole life to suggest that one should consider moving to a metropolitan city to meet women if their current location doesn't have a lot of women. Sounds similar to someone else. You and this website. While his cocky funny thing might not be your schtick, he actually gave the same advice you gave regarding logistics (PUA term)

As for Ross Jeffries, he promotes hypnosis by using sexually charged words. But at the root of it, it's all about talking of positive things that put a girl in a happy mood. So say you meet a girl for the first time, do you think she'll enjoy your company if you talk about the cold war or the Subprime liquidity crisis of 2007 and it's effects on the global economy or if you talk about her favorite food or hobby? Women are moody so if you talk about happy stuff, it'll only help you. This is what I learned from Ross Jeffries.

To me, PUA is marketing but I think in the context of dating, we're all marketing ourselves and PUA is only meant to help us market ourselves in the best light. Here's where I agree with you. If you're being dishonest and lying, then it's a waste of time.
If you are marketing yourself, your true self in the best light, there's nothing wrong with it.

Okay, all for now.
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