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For me personally, I can count on both hands the times women have initiated a conversation with me, or tried to pick me up. It has been extremely rare over the years. I have done more approaches in one night than the number of times I've been approached in my whole life (I'm in my 30s). Women here almost always take zero initiative. That alone should tell you that something is very wrong.
The question one might ask is: Am I approachable?
I think I am. I'll usually smile a bit and make a serious effort to put out a good vibe. But no matter how good a bait I set I almost never get any bites.
The funny thing is that I've had a few instances at the club where women will walk up to me and tell me to smile more. This happens if I'm not enjoying the place and it shows in my expression; and almost always a girl will tell me at some point in the night to smile more (guys have never told me that). I don't count that as an approach, since it can't go anywhere. However, when I do smile and give out a positive vibe no woman approaches. Again, this tells me that something is very wrong. Apparently it's easier to approach someone to address one of their flaws than it is to approach someone because you want to get to know them.
Good looks don't help much either. Some people automatically assume that with my looks I can easily get girls, and they tell me that. But they couldn't be more wrong. In this dysfunctional dating culture good looks can work against you. You are assumed to be a "player" who can get all the girls and likely to be a user, therefore you must be avoided. It's basically sexual politics like I talked about in my other post.
The most I will usually get is smiles from girls at clubs (on occasion) and sometimes I will follow up on those smiles -- I will approach them -- but I usually run into that familiar wall. Although these women are attracted and attraction is not a choice (they can't help but give me signals), when it comes time to move it forward and take it to the next level, their social programming kicks in and they put the brakes on (or their friends do). It's a rare woman that will say to hell with that and let herself go with you. They do exist, but they are few and far between.
The fact is that men in this society are much less likely to be approached than women. Aside from my own personal experience, I have almost never seen women approach men anywhere, unless they already know him. It's so rare that you can say it doesn't exist, and so common that people think that's the way it should be.
If you want to see some tangible proof of this, go to Google Keywords search, and type in keywords like "approaching men", "approaching women", "how to pick up men", "how to pick up women", "how to approach men", "how to approach women", etc. Set the match type to 'Exact', and observe the difference. You will notice that there is around 50-100 times more searches on how to approach/pick-up women than how to approach/pick-up men. Furthermore, there is a good chance that a good number of the searches on how to approach/pick-up men is performed by gay men, and not women. Try it out. It speaks volumes and numbers don't lie. I figure most of these searches are from the US and other western countries. I wish there was a breakdown for that, but there isn't.
But really, how hard should it be? Dating and meeting people is a form of partnership-seeking. It's not that different from making a business partner. Could you imagine a potential business partner giving you the cold shoulder and being aloof. You would refuse to do business with them and kick them to the curb. And yet, in the dating sphere it is assumed that your potential "business partner" - the women, are supposed to make things difficult for you - the men. The concept of working together is totally alien in North American dating life, but in business and the workplace it's understood and encouraged that you have to work together. Why demonize one and not the other? This is just one more piece of evidence that this culture is centered around business, work, and making money, but is toxic for interpersonal relations, especially male-female ones.
I personally find the "business partner" analogy extremely useful when figuring out how much effort I should be putting into meeting women. I ask myself, if this girl were a potential business partner how much effort should I put into the interaction, and what should I expect from her? If she is to be a viable prospect, it certainly should not be like pulling teeth. It should be painless give-and-take.
So in fact, guys are wasting their time approaching women if the women are not putting the effort into approaching men (or at the very least giving strong signals that they want to be approached). If this isn't happening then you need to go elsewhere.
This concept applies to any venue, such as a club/bar, house party, etc. If the fish aren't biting they don't want to be caught, period, and there's no sense trying to move the bait even closer. You can even think of it like this: If no woman approaches you or gives you strong signals of interest, that tells you the women in that particular place are closed off to being approached themselves, for if they wanted to be approached there would at least be instances, on occasion, where they would refuse to wait around and "take matters into their own hands" (or at the very least make it very easy for men to talk to them). But if this doesn't happen then it is safe to assume that it's a waste of time to approach the women in that particular place. So choose your hunting grounds wisely. The only good places for meeting women are those places where the women put some effort into meeting men.
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This is very interesting. Once in a blue moon a woman will strike up a conversation with me but again, it's only once in a blue moon. I read somewhere that most women in North America don't know how to flirt with men. I agree with that! Aren't women supposed to be equal with men? Well, how come men are the ones who do all the pursuing? Now if you are a celebrity, the women will flirt with you and pursue you but they only like you because you are rich and famous.
I have heard dating experts say, only approach women who give you buying signals (women who flirt with you). But, if no women flirt with you, you then have to make the first move. Here is a guy who goes into detail on body language (and who wrote the book, "How to date young women for men over 35").
That steelballs site looks like a complex way of addressing a really simple concept in the mating dance. I have to wonder if it's anything like PUA material where you have to learn 101 jedi-level techniques (bordering on mind reading) in order to have a shot at women. Doesn't this just enforce what is going on by making the presumption that things are supposed to be difficult, otherwise why bother teaching ways to deal with it?
Recognizing that someone wants to talk to you is one of the easiest things in the world. The hovering, the eye contact, etc. And I'm not talking about eye contact from a safe distance, like she's driving by or you're driving by, or through a window. Those kind of buying signals don't count. It's like drooling over a guys picture but once you see him in person you refuse to look at him.
The women who have started a conversation with me was just for things like needed directions, needed help with getting something off a shelf, etc. It was never a woman asking me for my phone number or anything like that. I have never had a woman say, "hey we should go out sometime" or "here's my number, call me sometime." I am the one who has to do all the pursuing and the asking out. I am sure that's the case for most men in the US.
I think there are a couple of scenarios in which women will approach men:
1. She is fat, desperate and therefore must be really aggressive
2. She is looking for a support check from spawning an annuity that she will kidnap from the man
3. Very very rarely the man is in the "right place right time" when some drunk slut seated next to him strikes up a conversation.
Good points J.Adama. Women in the US are NOT friendly at all towards men! They don't even make eye contact with men, let alone start a conversation with a man. Even at bars and clubs the guy has to do all the work and of course get all the rejection as well!
It would be nice to live in a country where the women showed interest in men. It would make it a hell of lot easier for men to meet women!
Body language signals are not easy to pick up and some men need to learn to recognise them. Usually those men who are very very smart, geeks, computer guys, live in their heads alot.
About being approached:
4 times in my life. I was asked out twice to Sadie Hawkins once in HS (78) once in College (82), one girl asked me out at the club I worked (84) and one asked me once why I didn't talk to her when she had a live in bf with a temper and a gun. 1988. She was a 10 on my scale, tall with big tits and she knew how to handle a firearm.
That is it for me in my life of women approaching me.
The other 300 or so I did all the work.
There is a big difference between what happens in the USA and other places. Women do not approach men often in the USA.
I am now past 50, and for the last dozen years or so, any passes by women of any sort in the USA were greeted with total disinterest on my part.
In the Philippines I get some kind of contact that the woman initiates probably several times per week. It might be in a restaurant, mall, some store someplace, even on the street. It is quite common. Sometimes this will take place even with my GF being with me...(she is not amused ) to which she responds by getting wild as soon as we get home...
I can't say I remember more than a couple of times that girls have actually initiated a conversation with me, but what I notice, in the Philippines almost everywhere I go is that girls will go out of their way to make themselves known to you, and sometimes hound you until you initiate conversation with them. One time I had two girls literally following me around the grocery store, obviously randomly throwing stuff in their cart that they had no intention of buying, and they kept doing that until I finally turned and talked to them.
The couple of times I remember, one girl was a multi level marketer, but the other was the most gorgeous girl I had seen. Chinese descent, slightly curly hair, long eyes and a little on the thick side. By talking to her she was clearly highly educated and very smart. Unfortunately, I had just arrived in the Philippines and was still in the American Matrix mindset. So when I finished my meal I said, "Nice talking to ya" and left. If I knew then what I know now I'd probably be married to that girl!
In Korea it happens less, but I did have a couple of girls actually initiate conversation. That could be as much they just want to practice English than they are really into me though, but one did mention the clubs she hangs out at. I notice young girls, though, will giggle, smile and wave until I go over and talk to them.
In Japan I never had a girl initiate, but some would just stare at me, non stop until I talk to them. Since I speak Japanese, they are usually surprised and it is easy from there.
“b***y is so strong that there are dudes willing to blow themselves up for the highly unlikely possibility of b***y in another dimension." -- Joe Rogan
Wow you speak Japanese. I always wanted to learn. Right now I'm finishing Spanish and moving on to Polish. Maybe Japanese one day...
Twice in Japan... getting on a train, I had my cowboy hat on and one girl came right up to me and said "ARe you from USA? I like to know you!" I said "No, I'm from Canada." She replied "Too bad, I want to meet more guys from the USA!".
lol it reminded me of that scene in ghostbusters where winston says to ray: IF SOMEONE ASKS YOU IF YOU'RE A GOD, YOU SAY YES! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kTi-EMXoMA
When I was in papong in Thailand women were hounding me... except I was only 16 at the time, I had an early intro to the red light district by my caring uncle.
I'm approached at least once a night at nightclubs and asked if I sell drugs... I have no idea why, I guess people assume that breakdancers are also drug dealers.
I don't really wait for girls to approach me though because it rarely happens... its sort of the guys job to do that portion anyway. I agree though, girls will make it super easy for you to do if they like you. Women here will just give you the cold freeze out.. I have no idea how the minds of Canadian women work...really I dont.
"Twice in Japan... getting on a train, I had my cowboy hat on and one girl came right up to me and said "ARe you from USA? I like to know you!" I said "No, I'm from Canada." She replied "Too bad, I want to meet more guys from the USA!"."
Just piggybacking on your comment before about telling people you're from Canada (sorry Canadians I really like you all!). Anyhow, I had to use that line in Russia a lot, especially to get drunks off you, since they would hound your for money, alcohol, metro tokens, etc. When I told them I wasn't an American (I lied) and said I was from Canada, they just kinda look stunned and go "oh", and walk away. I met Swedish chicks in Europe too who would tell me that they usually tell guys they're from Norway, just to get rid of them, since everyone knows and assumes a lot based on the old Swedish porno flicks.
There is a sickness here.... bitterness, over-focusing on problems that are largely self generated.
I have no problem pulling numbers or getting dates in the states, and women sometimes show some interest, as subtle and difficult to detect as it may be.... indeed it should be a lot better in that regard, but that is a small fraction of the issue of relationships in the states
These things are not the problem. If you have a problem being the pursuer, then get a sex change and become the pursued. Your argument simply does not make a lot of sense - men are supposed to pursue.
The problem in the states is that when you do pursue them, they often treat you like a freak for it. You are pathetic and unnecessary and an annoyance. If you do get past the first conversation and past the number close and past the first date, which I have found is rare indeed, then things like delusionally high expectations, unaccountable or non-committal tendencies, craziness, manipulation, and rejection may be very soon to follow. All of the aspects of the lack of femininity, and the general sense that women do not need or want men apply as well.
Women generally act like they do not need or want men, and treat them like they are pathetic tools, and then to my everlasting confusion, they wonder why they are so lonely or have never gotten (or stayed) married, especially as they get to be about 28-34 and many of them begin to get really frustrated about it. Others are even worse - they are in it for the f***ing, nothing more. You are there to meet their sexual needs, or their desire for companionship, and you can go f**k yourself sir if you do not fulfill them according to their expectations, your needs are secondary, f**k you very much.
There are some great relationships and small percentage of sweet hearted, feminine women in the states who love their man and care for him. I have been jealous of a couple of friends of mine who seem to have a knack for attracting them and have wondered what their secret is. However, they usually treat their women rather rudely and with disrespect, like they don't really care much about them or want to see them often or don't appreciate what they have at all... They may put drinking, dogs, or poker before their relationship, which seems to have some mysterious, strange way of attracting women. Then the guys go out and get shit faced and drive home drunk and this somehow does not result in her dumping the shit heel of a man that she is so in live with... so I am careful to not learn to much from guys like that..... I don't know if I am ready to live in that kind of hell just to attract women more easily.
I have even noted than when I act cocky and disinterested, or insult a woman, this almost inevitably results in her being interested in me.... just as I later read when I first read a "pick up guide." But once she finds out I am sincere, honest, and well intended, things come to a screeching halt. Western men.... f**k us all for being kind and respecting our health and doing useful things with our time and sincere with women. We should all be shit heel drunken ski bums and I think maybe we'd all be married now.
Having to pursue a woman? I used to whine about that nonsense also. However, I later discovered that there is a real problem w relationships in the US, and that is NOT it.
But I propose we post exclusively about how to solve it and where and how to have a productive relationship instead of ranting about the problem.
The internet: And endless process of searching online for sane people and wholesome information while weeding out the dogshit and the rantings of madmen.
I have even noted than when I act cocky and disinterested, or insult a woman, this almost inevitably results in her being interested in me.... just as I later read when I first read a "pick up guide." But once she finds out I am sincere, honest, and well intended, things come to a screeching halt. Western men
This is the essence of all PUA material and works all over the world... women are nuts in every country.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyGG-PRN ... re=related.
`I hate you, I hate you for rejecting me! I like you, I like you for rejecting me`
All women like being treated like a little sister... Think of how Bugs Bunny treats Yosemite Sam and Elmer Fudd and you have a good formula. Basically tell her to shut up nicely, push her away, tell her to stop annoying you... call her a nerd and a geek, then bring her with you once in awhile when you go out... teach her something about how to do a hobby properly, kiss her hard, tell her you like her then pull her hair and call her a nerd again. Women LOVE this... because you are subconciously telling them that you are better than they are... it works for me EVERY TIME. I dated my young mexican girl for 2.5 years and 90% of the time was spent pulling her hair, holding her down and smacking her bum or telling her she was a geek... she still wants to get back together. Try it... I think you`ll be surprised at the outcome. This may only work with younger gals... I don`t date anyone past their 20`s.