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Why does America have the highest prison population?

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Winston
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Why does America have the highest prison population?

Post by Winston » April 24th, 2010, 8:44 am

If the US is the richest and freest country in the world, then why does it have the biggest prison population?

Shouldn't a rich country be able to provide opportunity for all?
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globetrotter
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Re: Why does the US have the biggest prison population?

Post by globetrotter » April 24th, 2010, 8:54 am

Winston wrote:If the US is the richest and freest country in the world, then why does it have the biggest prison population?

Shouldn't a rich country be able to provide opportunity for all?


Opportunity is not results. If someone is dumb enough to sell crack in public holding a gun that is illegal, they are selecting themselves out of the population.

The USA still has a small remnant of the attitude of "We let you f**k up and ruin your life if you want to." It has not stepped into full Nanny State yet, although Obama is working on it fulltime. So if someone f***s up, they go to jail. This may change soon. The USA may become a Socialist Country very soon.

Also there is this latent holdover of Puritanism. No one is a Puritan anymore, even the people whose ancestors came here in 1630 (that's me). But it still exists. Like an old habit. The attitude of strict punishment is still there so if you f**k up and get caught you go to jail.

If you are rich and a banker, different story.

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Post by MrPeabody » April 24th, 2010, 5:32 pm

Americans have a mean-spirited cultural attitude that throwing people in prison solves problems and they throw people in jail for things that are not even crimes in other countries. The politicians pass irrational three strike laws to get elected. In the Netherlands, prison is considered very costly and only used as a last resort. Violent crime is very rare in the Netherlands, although theft is common because of the druggies. When I first moved to the Netherlands, my bike was stolen and I learned that you need to always lock up your bike even if you are only going to the store for a few minutes. Nevertheless, there is a noticeable antipathy to violence that you notice living there and young and old are on the streets all times of the day and night. Also, having a society without poverty is the most effective way to reduce crime. When I was in the Netherlands, it was in the news that they were actually closing down a few prisons for lack of inmates.

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Post by Adama » April 25th, 2010, 12:32 am

The same reason everything else in the USA is broken. This is the same reason for the family courts, men vilified in the media, mother custody only, child support, alimony for equals, equal opportunity employment preferences, acceptance of false rape accusations as proof enough to ruin men's lives, the welfare system etc.

The more men in prison, the easier it is for the state to control them afterwards. Also the threat of prison keeps many men in line. It instills fear of the state. Dont even think about defying the law.

The USA is a feminist shithole that wants to imprison every single man it can. That's all there is to it. Half the men will work for police depts and prisons. The other half will be in prisons.

Take notice that they make the laws so many and so complex in order to catch as many as possible. Silly things are illegal that you wouldnt imagine, and carry long sentences and heavy penalties.

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Post by gmm567 » April 25th, 2010, 12:48 am

we have more in prison casue we have more criminal type people

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Post by Think Different » April 25th, 2010, 3:41 am

I think it's a mix of reasons:

1. Men are pushed to the bottom or the social order, essentially emasculating them, and putting bitchy women on top, socially
2. The laws are ridiculously tough and frequently biased against men, often presuming men are guilty, before a trial
3. The prisons are full of "criminals" for very minor offenses, which would never call for prison time in other countries
4. Once in prison, even light offenders find themselves in a downward spiral: often they also have monetary fines to pay off in addition to the time behind bars, in order to be released, but not earning any money, they can't pay the fine off; also prisons are so overcrowded and violent that generally mild people eventually turn into animals in order to survive, thereby sealing their own fate as "hardened criminals".
5. Once out of prison, men can't find decent jobs, since they're "damaged goods" and no one will hire them.
6. In order to feed themselves and their families, these men often turn back to crime, since they can't work, and being in prison has taught them how to fight the system, and get around the law.

Basically, once you're in a US prison, for whatever the offense may be, you're royally screwed for life. One of my greatest fears after returning to the US (FROM RUSSIA OF ALL PLACES!!), was that I would commit some minor offense and either get sued by some idiot or end up locked in some shithole prison.

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Post by momopi » April 25th, 2010, 4:58 pm

*cough* the prison population stats only show the people who are actually locked up behind bars. Few mention that 3.x% of US population are on probation/parole.

Compared to Singapore and Malaysia, our law and punishment are rather tame. Over there, instead of lengthy sentence for certain crimes, they just strap the convict to a rack and spank him with a stick (caning). Anyone remember Michael Fay?

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Post by Enishi » April 25th, 2010, 5:03 pm

I suppose it would depend on whether it results in permanent physical disfigurement, but I'd rather get canned then be thrown in prison for decades and possibly gang raped...

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Post by globetrotter » April 25th, 2010, 5:30 pm

momopi wrote:*cough* the prison population stats only show the people who are actually locked up behind bars. Few mention that 3.x% of US population are on probation/parole.

Compared to Singapore and Malaysia, our law and punishment are rather tame. Over there, instead of lengthy sentence for certain crimes, they just strap the convict to a rack and spank him with a stick (caning). Anyone remember Michael Fay?


The correct figures is 3.2% of the adult population of 225 million, or 7.2 million people, are incarcerated, on probation or on parole.

7.2 / 335 = 2.15% of the entire US Population.

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Post by momopi » April 25th, 2010, 5:37 pm

Enishi wrote:I suppose it would depend on whether it results in permanent physical disfigurement, but I'd rather get canned then be thrown in prison for decades and possibly gang raped...


From what I've read, this depends on the number of strokes. By law the maximum number is 24 strokes, which is considered severe. If you got hit that many times, it will leave long-term scars on the butt. But for people like Michael Fay that only got a few strokes, it's a non-issue.

You can also be caned in SG for illegal entry/stay:

========================

Unlawful entry or presence in Singapore
15. —(1) A person shall not remain in Singapore after the cancellation of any permit or certificate, or after the making of a declaration under section 14 (4) or after the expiration or notification to him, in such manner as may be prescribed, of the cancellation of any pass relating to or issued to him unless he is otherwise entitled or authorised to remain in Singapore under the provisions of this Act or the regulations.

(2) A person shall not remain in Singapore in contravention of section 62.
[12/70]

(3) Any person who contravenes, without reasonable cause, this section shall be guilty of an offence and —

(a) in the case where he remains unlawfully for a period not exceeding 90 days, shall be liable on conviction to a fine not exceeding $4,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or to both;

(b) in the case where he remains unlawfully for a period exceeding 90 days, shall on conviction be punished with imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months and shall also, subject to section 231 of the Criminal Procedure Code (Cap. 68), be punished with caning with not less than 3 strokes, or where by virtue of that section he is not punishable with caning, he shall, in lieu of caning, be punished with a fine not exceeding $6,000.

====================================

Now imagine if we started caning illegal immigrants in the US. ;p

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Post by Winston » April 25th, 2010, 7:08 pm

momopi wrote:*cough* the prison population stats only show the people who are actually locked up behind bars. Few mention that 3.x% of US population are on probation/parole.

Compared to Singapore and Malaysia, our law and punishment are rather tame. Over there, instead of lengthy sentence for certain crimes, they just strap the convict to a rack and spank him with a stick (caning). Anyone remember Michael Fay?


Yeah he was the youngster who was caned in Singapore for spray painting some wall right?

Damn.

They should do that in the US to save money on funding prisons. That would make sense and might be more effective.

So can you be caned for soliciting those hot Chinese prostitutes standing in Geyland?
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Post by momopi » April 25th, 2010, 7:13 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Singapore

Geylang is a legal red light district in SG. The cops are fairly tolerant there.

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Post by The_Adventurer » April 26th, 2010, 1:19 pm

If you go by GDP per capita as it should be, I think Qatar is the richest country, and we know why they don't have a huge prison population there.
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Post by globetrotter » April 26th, 2010, 3:47 pm

Rank Country Intl. $ Year
1 Liechtenstein 122,100 2007 est.
2 Qatar 121,400 2009 est.
3 Luxembourg 77,600 2009 est.
— Bermuda 69,900 2004 est.
— Macau 59,451 2009 est.
4 Norway 59,300 2009 est.
— Jersey 57,000 2005 est.
5 Kuwait 55,800 2009 est.
6 Singapore 50,300 2009 est.
7 Brunei 50,100 2009 est.
8 United States 46,400 2009 est.
— Guernsey 44,600 2005 est.
— Cayman Islands 43,800 2004 est.
— Hong Kong 42,700 2009 est.
9 Andorra 42,500 2007 est.
10 Ireland 42,200 2009 est.

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Post by momopi » April 27th, 2010, 6:16 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28PPP%29_per_capita

Qater has population of ~900,000, but only 350,000 of that are citizens. The rest are all ex-pat workers. I'm not sure if the GDP figure for Qater only include the citizens or everyone, including all the low-paid South Asian laborers?

I think Ladislav is currently working in the region? Perhaps he can shed some light on this topic.

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