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Approaching Taiwan girls - Response to Winston

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Approaching Taiwan girls - Response to Winston

Postby Rock » Mon May 17, 2010 10:09 am

Hey Winston. You posted in another thread about the barriers to approaching girls in Taiwan. Since it was embedded in another topic, I decided to separate it out and create this new thread. Here is your post followed by my responses in CAPs.

Perhaps, but despite all the factors and strategies, the bottom line is that it simply does NOT FEEL comfortable approaching women in Taiwan. In fact it feels very INAPPROPRIATE and I know it is not my imagination.

PERHAPS LOCAL GIRLS GIVE FOREIGNERS MORE LEEWAY ON THIS AND ASSUME WE ARE NATURALLY MORE AGGRESSIVE SOCIALLY. BUT ANYWAY, RESULTS HERE (NUMBERS, DATES, AND EVENTUAL INTIMACY WITH LOCAL GIRLS YOU ARE ATTRACTED TO) OFTEN REQUIRE YOU TO EXIT YOUR COMFORT ZONE. APPROACH AS MANY GIRLS AS YOU LIKE IN AN APPROPRIATE, POLITE, AND SINCERE WAY. AS LONG AS YOU DON'T BLOCK THEIR PATH OR TOUCH THEM, THE WORST THING THAT USUALLY HAPPENS IS A POLITE REFUSAL.

Yes Taipei has more opportunities to meet people. But it has the same vibe in terms of closed exteriors, lack of eye contact, smiles, etc. People tend to be in a rush to get somewhere like in a Western big city, and girls do not smile or make eye contact.

THERE ARE AT LEAST A COUPLE OF WAYS TO DEAL WITH THE BUSY URBAN VIBE. ONE IS THE SHOTGUN APPROACH USED BY THE AFRICAN / JAPANESE PICK-UP TEAM IN JAPAN WE SAW FROM THE RECENT VIDEO. THIS METHOD YIELDS A LOT OF APPROACHES IN A SHORT TIME BUT THE REJECTION RATE IS VERY HIGH TOO. THE OTHER WAY IS TO TARGET GIRLS BASED ON THEIR BODY LANGUAGE AND ACTIVITY. FOR EXAMPLE GO TO VENUES WERE PEOPLE ARE IN LESS OF A HURRY (BOOKSTORES, ENTERTAINMENT AREAS) AND LOOK FOR SINGLE GIRLS WHO WALK SLOWLY IN A RELAXED WAY OR CASUALLY WINDOW SHOP. IF YOU ARE SMOOTH ENOUGH AND CHOOSE YOUR TARGETS WELL, REJECTION RATE FOR THIS METHOD GOES DOWN CONSIDERABLY. USUALLY, YOU JUST WANT TO BUILD A BIT OF RAPPORT, GAUGE HER INTEREST, EXCHANGE DIGITS AND EMAIL, AND END WITH A VAGUE COMMENT ABOUT GETTING IN TOUCH ANOTHER DAY. THE FOLLOW-UP IS A NEW GAME.

Yeah I can stop girls occasionally to ask directions and try to work up a conversation, it's possible, but it still feels like it's AGAINST the flow and not a normal thing.

SO WHAT. DOES THAT REALLY BOTHER YOU SO MUCH? IS IT SO IMPORTANT TO GO WITH THE FLOW AND BE NORMAL? SOMETIMES BY STANDING OUT, YOU MAKE A STRONG IMPRESSION, OFTEN BAD BUT SOMETIMES VERY GOOD TOO. THE ALTERNATIVE IS TO ALWAYS BE INVISIBLE OR EASILY FORGOTTEN. BEING DIFFERENT CAN MAKE YOU SPECIAL. I THOUGHT YOU PRIDED YOURSELF FOR BEING SO DIFFERENT, SO NON-CONFORMIST.

It's all about the feel. If you don't have the feel of the wave, you're not going to do that well. It's true in sports too. If you don't have a good feel of the ball in the game, you can't play well.

YES, THAT'S WHY PRACTICE IS SO IMPORTANT. YOU CAN DEVELOP A GOOD FEEL THROUGH TRIAL AND ERROR AND EVENTUALLY REACH YOUR FULL POTENTIAL HERE WHATEVER IT IS. MAYBE YOU WILL FIND OUT YOU ARE NOT SO GOOD AT THIS PARTICULAR SPORT. BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU NEVER GAVE IT A FULL SHOT. HOW MANY GIRLS HAVE YOU APPROACHED IN TAIPEI AS AN ADULT? HAVE YOU EVER WINGED WITH AN AGGRESSIVE OR SUCCESSFUL FRIEND HERE? YOU CAN LEARN A LOT AND LET GO OF INHIBITIONS JUST BY WATCHING OTHER GUYS WHO HAVE BALLS OPERATE.

And that's the deeper problem.

THE COMFORT ZONE IS EASY. THE LEARNING CURVE IS PAINFUL. BUT TAIWAN IS NOT THE USA SO THERE IS A PAYOFF TOO. YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE A BAD ASS, RICH AND FAMOUS, OR VERY HANDSOME TO ACHIEVE REASONABLE SUCCESS WITH ATTRACTIVE GIRLS HERE.

One thing is for sure. You certainly can't approach girls in Taiwan like in Russia. That I'd bet a million dollars on.

WHAT EXACTLY DO YOU MEAN - THAT YOU CAN'T GO UP TO ANY GIRL ON THE STREET OR THAT THEY WILL RESPOND DIFFERENTLY? I AGREE THAT THE GENERAL RANGE OF RESPONSES WILL BE DIFFERENT. BUT AS I SAID, YOU CAN APPROACH MOST SINGLE GIRLS OR EVEN GIRLS IN GROUPS AS LONG AS YOU ARE POLITE AND RESPECTFUL. IF ANYONE ASKS WHAT YOU ARE DOING, JUST BE DIRECT. SAY THAT SHE LOOKS LIKE A VERY INTERESTING PERSON AND YOU WOULD LIKE A CHANCE TO KNOW HER A BIT BETTER. IF SHE SAYS NO, THEN MOVE ON. IF JIMMY (A BOYFRIEND) SUDDENLY APPEARS, JUST APOLOGIZE BRIEFLY, TELL THE GUY HES LUCK, AND MAKE A QUIET EXIT. THIS AIN'T SAUDI ARABIA. ATTRACTIVE GIRLS AND NOT SO ATTRACTIVE GIRLS DO GET HIT ON HERE. THEY CALL IT 'DA SAN' AND MANY TAKE IT AS A COMPLIMENT EVEN IF THEY PRETEND NOT TO. NOW HAVING SAID ALL THAT, YOU NEED TO GAUGE YOURSELF RELATIVE TO THE GIRL. IF YOU APPROACH A SMOKING HOT 18 YEAR OLD MODEL TYPE WHO IS DRESSED FASHIONABLY AND YOU ARE NOT OF VERY DECENT CALIBER YOURSELF OR MUCH OLDER, SHE MAY STILL BE POLITE. BUT SHE WON'T REALLY TAKE YOU SERIOUSLY. AT BEST, YOU MIGHT GET A NEW FRIEND UNLESS YOU HAVE 'LOTTERY WINNING' LUCK.


I have Taiwanese relatives in Taipei and they do not say that Taipei girls are more open and approachable. They all say that to meet girls you have to be introduced by mutual friends, or join an organization, class, or activity. (which there aren't that many of anyway since everyone is so busy working). Only foreigners and some abc's claim that Taiwanese girls are approachable and easy to chat up. Local Taiwanese guys do not usually say that at all.

MANY OF MY TAIWANESE CLASSMATES AT UNIVERSITY IN THE STATES TOLD ME A SIMILAR THING. THEY SAID I WOULD HAVE A LOT MORE LUCK MEETING TAIWANESE WHO STUDY AT MY SCHOOL IN THE US BECAUSE THE ONES IN TAIWAN ARE NOT ACCUSTOMED TO FOREIGNERS AND ARE MORE CONSERVATIVE. BOY WERE THEY WRONG. THAT'S JUST THE WAY THE TRADITIONAL SET ROLLS, VERY TYPICAL OF GRADUATE LEVEL TAIWANESE STUDENT THINKING IN THE USA. TAIPEI, ON THE OTHER HAND, HAS MANY ALTERNATIVE, OPEN, AND MODERN TYPES TOO. THERE IS A THRIVING LOCAL GAY COMMUNITY HERE AND SOME STRAIGHT FOREIGNERS BECOME PLATONIC FRIENDS WITH THESE GUYS AND AS A BENEFIT GET ACCESS TO THEIR OFTEN HOT FEMALE FRIENDS. AND AS FOR THE MORE CONSERVATIVE TYPES OF GIRLS, THEY CAN SURPRISE YOU SOMETIMES. I REMEMBER APPROACHING ONE OF THESE TYPES WHO TOLD ME THAT PEOPLE IN TAIWAN DON'T MAKE FRIENDS WITH STRANGERS. BUT SHE TOOK MY TELEPHONE NUMBER ANYWAY AND A FEW DAYS LATER STARTED TEXTING ME. THAT IN TURN DEVELOPED INTO SOMETHING.

Yeah the girls in Taipei may be more knowledgeable about pop culture. But that doesn't make them more open in terms of an exterior of openness, smiling, making eye contact, etc. No way. Even user name gits on this forum made a video of Taipei and in his video, you can see that no one is making eye contact with anyone. It's not normal to do so. Gits admits this too, yet he claims he can approach girls in Taiwan the same way I do in Russia. Go figure.

EYE CONTACT AND SMILING ARE NOT THE END ALL BE ALL. IF I WANT SMILES, I CAN GO TO THAILAND. IF I WANT LOTS OF COFFEE DATES AND INNOCENT FLIRTING, MAYBE I CAN GET THAT IN RUSSIA. BUT HOW MANY OF THESE GIRLS WILL REALLY GIVE IN RETURN - INTIMACY OR AT LEAST SINCERE NO STRINGS ATTACHED LONG TERM FRIENDSHIP WITH NO MONETARY EXPECTATIONS FROM THEM, THEIR FAMILY OR THEIR FRIENDS? SOMETIMES SHY AND RESERVED PEOPLE CAN ALSO BE THE MOST SINCERE AND GIVING IN THE LONGER RUN. IT DEPENDS ON WHAT YOU ARE SEEKING. FROM WHAT I'VE READ ON YOUR SITE, IT SOUNDS LIKE MOST OF THOSE OPEN AND EXPRESSIVE RUSSIAN HOTTIES YOU APPROACHED ENDED UP PLAYING AND DITCHING YOU.

Bottom line is that Taiwan does not have the kind of social energy that exists in Europe that makes you feel like meeting girls is part of the flow. Definitely not. That kind of social energy isn't there. Not even in Taipei.

I LIVED IN WESTERN EUROPE FOR 2.5 YEARS AS A YOUNG MAN. ADMITTEDLY, I WAS SHY AND HAD NO GAME. BUT ZERO DATES IS A PRETTY PATHETIC SHOWING. I CERTAINLY DIDN'T FIND ANYTHING MAGICAL THERE. IT WAS MORE LIKE 'USA-PART 2'

Someday I will upload my videos of Krakow Poland and you will see what I mean. There was definitely a social energy there where chatting up a girl was like riding WITH the waves, not against it.

OK, I'VE NEVER BEEN TO EASTERN EUROPE. I'M SURE I WOULD FIND MANY OF THE GIRLS THERE ATTRACTIVE. I NEED TO RESEARCH THAT AREA MORE AND PERHAPS GET MY ASS OVER THERE.

That kind of energy is simply absent in Taiwan or Japan, regardless of what anyone claims. And that's why in a lot of ways Taiwan feels like the US, with a similar "mind your own business, keep to yourself" vibe.

IF I JUST EVALUATE END RESULTS, THE US AND TAIWAN COULD NOT BE MORE DIFFERENT FOR ME. I GOT MORE FEMALE ATTENTION AND ACTION FROM 1-2 MONTHS IN TAIWAN THAN DURING MY ENTIRE 8 YEARS OF HIGH SCHOOL AND COLLEGE IN THE US.

As for me, my style is that I have to connect people on their exterior before I can connect with them on their interior. With the cold strict Taiwanese exterior, my exterior cannot connect since I need a warm exterior from them before connecting with the interior. It's hard to explain in words what I mean. Basically, even if a girl has a warm interior, it's hard to even talk to her if she has a cold exterior. It's very weird.

YES, CLICKING AND CONNECTING DEPEND A LOT ON BOTH PARTIES. A TOPIC I SOMETIMES ENGAGE GIRLS HERE ABOUT WHEN I FIRST MEET THEM IS THEIR ASTROLOGY SIGN. FROM EXPERIENCE, I'VE FOUND MYSELF TO BE MORE COMPATIBLE WITH SOME SIGNS THAN OTHERS. FOR EXAMPLE, I'VE HAD A LOT OF DISAPPOINTMENTS WITH AQUARIUS GIRLS, CONNECT VERY QUICKLY AND WELL WITH VIRGOS, AND HAVE FOUND CANCER AND TAURUS GIRLS TO BE VERY SINCERE WITH ME. SCORPIO IS GOOD TOO AS LONG AS YOU ARE SERIOUS BUT IF YOU HURT THEM, THEY CAN HURT YOU BACK.

It's very frustrating though being in a country where it feels strongly illegal and inappropriate to approach a girl you like. It's also infuriating and a huge let down. There are many hot girls in Taiwan with smooth delicate skin and feminine bodies and voices, that's for sure. That's what makes it worse.

I KNOW, YOU JUST NEED TO THICKEN YOUR SKIN AND ACCEPT REJECTION AS PART OF THE PROCESS. PERHAPS YOU WILL HAVE TO APPROACH A LARGE NUMBER BEFORE YOU GET ANY RESULTS.

I know one white guy who has lived here for ten years and speaks good Chinese. He lives in Taipei like you Rock, and works for a law firm. He even came to Angeles City for a while to start a bubble tea business, but his Filipina girlfriend and her family took advantage of him and forced him to quit his business and lose his investment. Anyway, he even admits to me that Taiwanese girls in Taipei do not like talking to strangers and that you have to join a group event or activity to meet them usually.

This guy works in a law firm too, and it decent looking. But he is a serious type and does not seem to be a PUA guy or cold approacher type at all. Very few western guys have the guts to cold approach a woman usually, even in Taiwan. But the thing is, he is white and he does not claim that Taiwanese girls are easy to meet by cold approaches. So not all white guys make this claim. Only some do.

I REALIZE THAT BOTH OF US ARE PERHAPS ON THE OLD SIDE FOR TAIWAN GAME. BUT NEVER MIND THAT. IF YOU LIKE, WE CAN MEET SOMETIME, PERHAPS IN TAICHUNG, TO DO APPROACHES AND MAKE SOME NEW FRIENDS. WHEN I APPROACH GIRLS, I DO FEEL NERVOUS. BUT THAT USUALLY DOESN'T STOP ME.

SOME WESTERN GUYS COLD APPROACH HERE, OTHERS DON'T: DIFFERENT GUYS + DIFFERENT MOTIVATIONS + DIFFERENT ACTIONS = DIFFERENT RESULTS. I'VE KNOW A FAIR NUMBER OF WHITE GUYS HERE, CO-WORKERS, FLAT MATES, FRIENDS, FRIENDS OF FRIENDS, ETC. HERE'S A BASIC PROFILE OF A FEW THAT COME TO MIND:

A: SHORT BUT GOOD LOOKING MID 30S STUDENT OF CHINESE. STAYED FOR A YEAR AND DATED OVER 15 LOCAL GIRLS AND A COUPLE OF ABCS. MANY WERE VERY ATTRACTIVE TO HOT BY MOST PEOPLE'S STANDARDS.

B: BALDING LATE 20S AVERAGE HEIGHT AVERAGE LOOKING FINANCE PROFESSIONAL: STAYED FOR 3 YEARS. DID NOT APPROACH OR DATE GIRLS HERE IN SPITE OF GOOD CHINESE. EVENTUALLY MET A LOCAL 36 YEAR OLD WEALTHY CAREER WOMAN AND DATED HER SERIOUSLY FOR OVER A YEAR.

C: SHORT, BELOW AVERAGE LOOKING, MID 30S EDITOR AT LOCAL COMPANY: CAME FROM ENGLAND TO LIVE WITH VERY ATTRACTIVE, SEXY AND TALL 22 YEAR OLD LOCAL GIRL HE MET ONLINE. ENGAGED TO HER AFTER 18 MONTHS AND...HOPEFULLY LIVED HAPPILY EVER AFTER.

D. SHORT AVERAGE TO BELOW AVERAGE LOOKING MID 30S BROKERAGE ASSISTANT: STAYED FOR 6 YEARS. LEARNED GREAT CHINESE. BECAME A VERY AGGRESSIVE AT APPROACHING WOMEN HERE ON THE INTERNET, MRT, CLUBS, ON THE STREET, ETC. HE GOT A TON OF REJECTION BUT ALSO ACCUMULATED WELL OVER 200 ACTIVE NUMBERS AND USUALLY HAD 1-3 DATES PER WEEK, MANY OF THEM PHYSICAL. THE LOOKS OF HIS GALS RANGED FROM FAIRLY UGLY TO MODEL HOT. THERE WERE LOTS OF 5-7S AND MOST WERE BETWEEN AGED BETWEEN 20-27.

E. AVERAGE HEIGHT AND LOOKS, WELL BUILT, EARLY 40S TEACHER: STAYED FOR SEVERAL YEARS BUT SPEAKS NO CHINESE. FEELS TOO OLD TO APPROACH THE LOCALS. ONLY DATES DOMESTIC HELPERS FROM THE PHILIPPINES IN THEIR 30S.

F. AVERAGE HEIGHT, SLIM BUILD AND OK LOOKS, MID 20S, EXCHANGE STUDENT FROM FRANCE: HERE FOR JUST 3 MONTHS SO FAR, NO CHINESE, FREQUENTLY PICKS-UP GALS FROM THE LOCAL CLUBS AND HIS UNIVERSITY, AT LEAST 12 TAKE HOMES SO FAR. IT SEEMS LIKE A PIECE OF CAKE FOR HIM.

BOTTOM LINE. TAIWAN HAS THE POTENTIAL TO TURN A DUD INTO A STUD, PROVIDE A LONELY GUY WITH A QUALITY PARTNER, OR JUST CREATE MORE SEXUAL FRUSTRATION AND LONELINESS. IT JUST DEPENDS ON YOUR LUCK, HOW PROACTIVE YOU ARE, AND HOW WELL YOU GENERALLY CLICK WITH THIS PLACE.

I BET THE SAME CAN BE SAID FOR MANY OTHER LOW PROFILE COUNTRIES AS WELL, MOST OF WHICH ARE PROBABLY NOT ON THE MAIN DATING/MARRIAGE OR PROSTITUTION CIRCUIT.
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Why few marriage / dating sites for Taiwan

Postby Rock » Mon May 17, 2010 11:15 am

Hey Winston. Further to my last post, you emailed me a couple of questions about Taiwan. I am responding publicly.

YOU WROTE:

But logic says that if TW was such a great spot for meeting girls, then why don't more international dating sites mention that? Why isn't it popular for foreign men seeking brides or for sex tourists?

Why aren't there sites hooking up TW girls with foreigners like there are for other nationalities?

I RESPONDED:

Here are my thoughts:

Taiwan is a relatively rich country with very few poor people and a culture of financial self reliance. The girls here don't need to set their sights abroad. Ditto for Korea and Japan. China on the other hand, still has a huge number of poor people who are very motivated to achieve a better material life, even if it requires hooking up with outsiders.

The countries popular with bride seekers and sex tourists are well know because they put themselves out there and make themselves well known. In this case, supply creates demand. If French girls all of sudden became keen to date, marry or shag older or less attractive foreign guys, guess what? France would start showing-up on the marriage or pay-for-play circuit, the agencies and websites would pick-up on it, and France would become a new hot-spot. But guess what. That never seems to happen. Once a country has been rich, it doesn't easily go that route, even if the economy collapses ala Argentina. I suppose the people, after having been rich, are just too proud for that.

It all boils down to an exchange - the poorer country provides young willing girls in exchange for material resources of the richer country's men. Can you think of any exceptions to this general rule?
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Postby Winston » Mon May 17, 2010 12:16 pm

Btw Rock,
I don't see what being in Chiayi has to do with anything. In most countries, the capital city is less warm and friendly than the smaller cities and the girls are less approachable too.

For example, in Warsaw, Poland, the vibe was more snobby, standoffish and people were more reserved. I could meet a few girls there, but most of them blew me off. The "social energy vibe" just wasn't there. Some do much better there of course, if they are white and have the look that Polish girls like.

But when I went to Krakow, Poland, there was a social vibe and it was much easier to meet girls. It felt more in the flow.

Saying the capital city is where the approachable friendly girls are, would be like saying that Moscow is where the friendly girls are, while the smaller cities outside are not. And that wouldn't be true. Girls in Moscow AND the small cities are pretty approachable and it does not feel inappropriate to try meeting them.

Saying that you can meet girls if you have the right look, game, clothes, etc. can be said anywhere. You can say the same in Los Angeles and New York too. But that doesn't make it easy or even probable or even a good experience.

Words are just words. If the vibe isn't there, then it isn't there.

Anyhow, like I told you before, for someone to tell me that girls in Taiwan are approachable and easy to meet and chat up and that they've dated hundreds of girls there, would be the equivalent for me of someone telling me that they can go to the forest and find Bigfoot anytime they want and even take me to see Bigfoot too.

In other words, it's a fantastic claim, and even if it comes from a credible source, it's still too improbable to fathom.

Anyway, it'd be interesting to meet you someday and have you show me how approachable girls in Taipei are.

PS - Here is something ironic. On the busy forum at WorldSexGuide.com, the Philippines board is very active and there are many posts everyday. Yet the Taiwan board there hasn't been posted to in two years, except by me. Yet whenever I do post there and ask why Taiwanese girls are so unapproachable, a small group of guys argue with me and claim that the girls are very friendly there and that the problem must be me. Yet if that's so, then how come no one has posted on the Taiwan board there for two years except me, along with those responding to me? (this is a high traffic forum too) If Taiwan has such a great dating scene and pickup scene, you'd think that the Taiwan board there would not be vacant for two years, wouldn't you? The last few posts two years ago were from guys saying that the sex scene is dead in Taiwan. That's an odd case of actions contradicting words. lol
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Postby Winston » Mon May 17, 2010 12:27 pm

Rock,
It sounds like you are advocating PUA strategies and techniques. Is that true?

As for me and most guys here, we would rather things happen naturally, rather than learn some fake technique. If it ain't natural, it ain't worth it. We all do our best when the wind is behind our backs and we are in the flow and doing what comes naturally to us, right?

Why learn some odd techniques in an uncomfortable environment?

What you say about Taiwan could be true for Los Angeles an New York too. Anyone can say that anything is possible anywhere.

Either way, whatever the case, I think your success in TW is an anomaly. It's not something mainstream. If you go around and ask mainstream TW local guys if the girls there were approachable, most would tell you no way, I'm sure. The girls on the other hand, are more politically correct and do not like to say anything negative about the females of their country, so they would be more reluctant to admit it. But if you pressure them for an honest answer, they will admit that TW girls do not like talking to strangers.

And that's the point, if they DON'T LIKE it, it makes it uncomfortable.

Approaching girls in TW is not without risk. I get a creepy vibe that they are thinking of calling the police if I approach them. And that is NOT comfortable at all. HELL NO!

In my experience, TW girls prefer guys who are more shy, humble, innocent, and not too deep or intellectual. If you are too smart or knowledgeable they feel intimidated and do not bond with you. I have the same experience with TW that Ladislav had with mainstream people in Thailand, where his outward personality was seen as a negative thing that did not flow with the vibe there.

Again, even if you're right, the bottom line that we all agree on is that the EXTERIOR of TW women is definitely closed, very closed, strict, tight, and not open at all. And that makes is very uncomfortable to even say hi to them.

PS - One more thing. Yeah you are right, most Russian girls I met were just playing me and weren't serious. But approaching them, flirting with them, and hitting on them was a FUN AND ENJOYABLE experience. VERY FUN AND ENJOYABLE. It was not uncomfortable, creepy or socially illegal like in Taiwan, and I did not feel like a criminal like I do in Taiwan for wanting to do that.
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Postby Rock » Mon May 17, 2010 4:05 pm

Winston wrote:Btw Rock,
I don't see what being in Chiayi has to do with anything. In most countries, the capital city is less warm and friendly than the smaller cities and the girls are less approachable too.

For example, in Warsaw, Poland, the vibe was more snobby, standoffish and people were more reserved. I could meet a few girls there, but most of them blew me off. The "social energy vibe" just wasn't there. Some do much better there of course, if they are white and have the look that Polish girls like.

But when I went to Krakow, Poland, there was a social vibe and it was much easier to meet girls. It felt more in the flow.

Saying the capital city is where the approachable friendly girls are, would be like saying that Moscow is where the friendly girls are, while the smaller cities outside are not. And that wouldn't be true. Girls in Moscow AND the small cities are pretty approachable and it does not feel inappropriate to try meeting them.

Saying that you can meet girls if you have the right look, game, clothes, etc. can be said anywhere. You can say the same in Los Angeles and New York too. But that doesn't make it easy or even probable or even a good experience.

Words are just words. If the vibe isn't there, then it isn't there.

Anyhow, like I told you before, for someone to tell me that girls in Taiwan are approachable and easy to meet and chat up and that they've dated hundreds of girls there, would be the equivalent for me of someone telling me that they can go to the forest and find Bigfoot anytime they want and even take me to see Bigfoot too.

In other words, it's a fantastic claim, and even if it comes from a credible source, it's still too improbable to fathom.

Anyway, it'd be interesting to meet you someday and have you show me how approachable girls in Taipei are.

PS - Here is something ironic. On the busy forum at WorldSexGuide.com, the Philippines board is very active and there are many posts everyday. Yet the Taiwan board there hasn't been posted to in two years, except by me. Yet whenever I do post there and ask why Taiwanese girls are so unapproachable, a small group of guys argue with me and claim that the girls are very friendly there and that the problem must be me. Yet if that's so, then how come no one has posted on the Taiwan board there for two years except me, along with those responding to me? (this is a high traffic forum too) If Taiwan has such a great dating scene and pickup scene, you'd think that the Taiwan board there would not be vacant for two years, wouldn't you? The last few posts two years ago were from guys saying that the sex scene is dead in Taiwan. That's an odd case of actions contradicting words. lol


[quote="Winston"]

1. I've been to Chiayi a few times but I never stayed very long. I believe its harder to find the modern open types there and if you hang anywhere very long, you will be quickly noticed by the locals and talked about. Its harder to be anonymous. Also, Taipei as the capital and most international city attracts a lot of the best looking and best educated girls from all over the island. People in the smaller cities can be very hospitable. But they are also more closed to new things like a new person trying to pop into their life. I can't comment on Warsaw because I've never been there. What principle may apply to Poland or Russia does not necessarily extend to every other country.

2. In NYC or LA, the types of results a young very good looking and affluent and outgoing guy can sometimes be duplicated by someone in Taiwan who is 10 years older, much less attractive (by US standards), and of modest means. It ain't Philippines or Africa. But it can give you one hell of a handicap. Its an excellent opportunity for some average guys in their 30s who get nowhere in the States. And remember, you even said that some people have difficulty scoring in the Philippines. I remember you wrote about a decent looking westerner (French?) who did much worse than you. Maybe he would have better luck here in Taiwan. Different countries work best for different people.

3. This obsession with vibes can create a limiting beliefs which inhibit action and chance unless you are really an expert at reading people and always can predict just they will react to you if you speak to them. And if you are really so sure of failure, perhaps your own vibes might create some sort of self full-filling prophecy. But if you really do read people so well, how do you explain some of the stuff that went down in Russia between you and the locals. Did you know what was going on all along and just tolerate it?

4. World Sex Guide and International Sex Guide are predominantly pay-for-play discussions. Taipei totally sucks for that. Once upon a time, there were full sex barbershops galore, Snake Alley brothels, Linsen N. Rd. whorehouses, Shuan Cheng St. talking bars, cubicle bars, and of course KTV clubs. Reasonable prices could be found and young attractive girls were readily available. Today, just a remnant remains. Prices are high and girls are older and mediocre or else outrageously expensive. This is probably one of the last places I would choose in Asia for direct pay action.

5. The samples I gave you of others I know were real cases and not exaggerated. And as you can see, not all of them did not did so well here.

6. Some figures to put things into perspective. Over a 10 year period, if you date on average 2 new girls per month, the numbers easily get you into the 100s. From what I've read on your forum, it sounds like some guys could easily date 2 or more new girls every week or in the Philippines if they wanted to. So from your perspective, 100s of girls over an extended period of time is no big deal. At a rate of 2 new girls per week, you would just exceed 100 in a year.

7. For some interesting parallels, read through Old Thai Hands 2007-2009 posts on the Thai forum of International Sex Guide. In some ways, his views on Thai girls are very non-consensus among the farang community, especially the tourists. He argues that most farang waste their time with mercenary bar girls when much better experiences are available if one makes the effort (learning the language and culture to some extent) and commitment (residing there full time).
This middle aged Canadian instructor at one of Bangkok's top universities, focuses on dating the upper crust good girl hotties and claims great success. He posted a lot of pictures too and for the most part, they looked more Chinese than stereotypical Thai. So why would young, sexy and innocent looking girls from rich families be interested in getting physical with his aging white ass? The answers he gives are complex but he's a very good writer so if you read enough of his posts, you might begin to understand. In any case, his posts offer a very detailed and alternative view of the foreign guy in Thai situation.

8. Yea, talk is talk. As you know, I"ve been out of the dating pool for awhile. Its possible that things have changed drastically for the worse here since then. But given the success of some of the guys I've observed, I doubt its gotten that bad. So if you wanna give it a shot, I'll be here until May 26 and will return to Taiwan at the end of June. Just let me know. I'm willing to do more than just talk.
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Postby Winston » Mon May 17, 2010 4:17 pm

Yeah sometimes my people reading skills failed in Russia. I already addressed that long ago. I didn't say my insights are 100 percent accurate. But they are accurate at least 90 percent of the time.

Russians are VERY good actors and more difficult to read though. An American is easy to read and doesn't lie as well as a Russian does. Remember that Russians invented the Stanislav technique of acting.

The French guy I told you about in the PH was someone that Ladislav told me about. He was handsome and well off, but his vibes simply repelled Filipinas there. Like I said, vibes are a VERY VERY big factor. Some people have a vibe or energy that attracts things, and others don't, or attract bad things. Unfortunately things like that are hard to control, but they majorly influence feelings of course.

But anyone can tell between friendly and unfriendly vibes. For instance, if someone were in a room with you and didn't want you there, you'd feel a very different vibe than from someone who does want you there. A very different one.

I doubt whether my vibes are a self fulfilling prophecy. My sense of others' vibes are a mirror. I do not project my own expectations onto them. Like I said, if someone doesn't like you and doesn't want to be approached, they carry a vibe that tells you so. And you will feel it very strongly. I am merely mirroring the vibes of others, because I am acutely sensitive, more sensitive than most.

So let me get this straight. Are you saying that 100 percent of the foreigners you know in Taiwan have no problem meeting girls here or approaching them?! Yet any Taiwanese person will admit that approaching girls you don't know is inappropriate and creepish?! Now that is plain weird. In effect, you are claiming that matter and anti-matter can coexist together. lol

If I visit you in Taipei, will your girlfriend let us go out alone and try to approach and talk to girls?
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Postby Rock » Mon May 17, 2010 5:08 pm

Winston wrote:Rock,
It sounds like you are advocating PUA strategies and techniques. Is that true?

As for me and most guys here, we would rather things happen naturally, rather than learn some fake technique. If it ain't natural, it ain't worth it. We all do our best when the wind is behind our backs and we are in the flow and doing what comes naturally to us, right?

Why learn some odd techniques in an uncomfortable environment?

What you say about Taiwan could be true for Los Angeles an New York too. Anyone can say that anything is possible anywhere.

Either way, whatever the case, I think your success in TW is an anomaly. It's not something mainstream. If you go around and ask mainstream TW local guys if the girls there were approachable, most would tell you no way, I'm sure. The girls on the other hand, are more politically correct and do not like to say anything negative about the females of their country, so they would be more reluctant to admit it. But if you pressure them for an honest answer, they will admit that TW girls do not like talking to strangers.

And that's the point, if they DON'T LIKE it, it makes it uncomfortable.

Approaching girls in TW is not without risk. I get a creepy vibe that they are thinking of calling the police if I approach them. And that is NOT comfortable at all. HELL NO!

In my experience, TW girls prefer guys who are more shy, humble, innocent, and not too deep or intellectual. If you are too smart or knowledgeable they feel intimidated and do not bond with you. I have the same experience with TW that Ladislav had with mainstream people in Thailand, where his outward personality was seen as a negative thing that did not flow with the vibe there.

Again, even if you're right, the bottom line that we all agree on is that the EXTERIOR of TW women is definitely closed, very closed, strict, tight, and not open at all. And that makes is very uncomfortable to even say hi to them.

PS - One more thing. Yeah you are right, most Russian girls I met were just playing me and weren't serious. But approaching them, flirting with them, and hitting on them was a FUN AND ENJOYABLE experience. VERY FUN AND ENJOYABLE. It was not uncomfortable, creepy or socially illegal like in Taiwan, and I did not feel like a criminal like I do in Taiwan for wanting to do that.



1. I believe PU strategies can help-out in any country, provided they are modified to fit the local situation. In your face cocky does not go down well here. Language dependent humor often does not translate. But amusing facial expressions and body language work if you're good at that sort of thing. Remember Mystery from "The Game" when he went to Eastern Europe? Magic skills probably help almost anywhere.

But if you want to throw all the PU stuff out, you just have to make sure you are polite, friendly, and not threatening in any way.

2. The required standards in Taipei are generally much lower than in NYC or LA to get a similar quality of result. So Taiwan may provide some with a critical handicap which has the potential to transform their dating life.

3. What comes natural to a person evolves over time and is shaped by the results of action, assuming that action takes place. Taking things as they come can yield results. Making things happen at other times can augment those results and create new opportunities. But if your goal is just to enjoy, than don't do it if its not comfortable. I have to admit to having fallen into addictive patterns at times.

4. Don't ask people anything. People here will usually answer based on what makes sense logically and to be in line with social norms. Behavior, on the other hand, is often driven emotions, some of which are very irrational. Go to a club popular with foreigners and observe the interactions for a couple of hours when things are going strong. Hang out with a ABC who scores a lot when he's out on the town. If you have any chance to work in a local company here, you will find out how what people say is often very inconsistent with what they end-up doing.

5. From the vibe you describe (girls ready to call the police), I have to wonder if you are doing something blatantly wrong and just don't realize it. No one I know of has ever had that happen. Some of stupidly aggressive ones have run into problems with local guys at pubs. But those situations were totally their own fault and avoidable.

6. Hey, you saw the Japanese pick-up videos (African + local team). Isn't Japan supposed to be super socially anal and uptight? Do your believe your results in Taipei would be any worse if you did the same thing? Although they did usually strike-out completely, nothing happened, no police came, and nobody got visibly angry. A lot of people ended up laughing and it looks like they did OK 2 or 3 times. I don't understand why they didn't at least try to exchange digits and emails with the friendlier girls. The city is big and anonymous so they don't have to worry too much about running into locals who saw their show just in case they feel embarrassed.
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Postby Rock » Mon May 17, 2010 5:39 pm

Winston wrote:
So let me get this straight. Are you saying that 100 percent of the foreigners you know in Taiwan have no problem meeting girls here or approaching them?! Yet any Taiwanese person will admit that approaching girls you don't know is inappropriate and creepish?! Now that is plain weird. In effect, you are claiming that matter and anti-matter can coexist together. lol

If I visit you in Taipei, will your girlfriend let us go out alone and try to approach and talk to girls?


Matter and anti matter can co-exist? What?

First of all, re-read cases A-F of my very first post in this thread. You will see that 3 of those 6 guys did not approach strangers in Taiwan. That makes 50%.

Secondly, and I think Ladislav made allusions to this for East Asia in one of his posts, foreigners are sometimes treated differently and held to different standards than locals. We are allowed to make some mistakes because we are not expected to know all the rules. Indeed, many don't even expect us to speak the language. We are guests. Perhaps Japan and Korea are more extreme for this mentality than Taiwan.

There is a certain percentage of girls here, and I've met quite a few of them, who are disillusioned by their own culture. Some of them worry about their future as a local daughter in law and the potential to be controlled or receive abuse from the future husband's parents. Others are a bit like you, non-conformist free thinker types who who feel suffocated and seek outside experiences. And I've heard that some classy girls want to stay with-in their own ethnicity but would be very open to ABCs or even other East Asians.

My girlfriend wouldn't be thrilled if we go out in Taipei but if I explain that its only for my friend, she might tolerate it. It might be better not to tell her or do it in Taichung. If I made any contacts, I would not pursue them as long as I am with her. She does not want me to have female friends. Am I p***y whipped or what? She is one of the most dominant Taiwan girls I've ever been with.
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Postby momopi » Mon May 17, 2010 6:00 pm

Rock, dude, take it easy with the caps. X_X


===========================================

If you can speak Chinese and looking for a wife or husband in Taiwan, go join siplove:
http://www.siplove.com.tw/act/singlepar ... hlyact.htm

If all you want to do is get laid, book a flight to Hong Kong.
Last edited by momopi on Mon May 17, 2010 6:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Winston » Mon May 17, 2010 6:08 pm

Rock,
Well maybe you can tell your gf that you are just showing me around or that I am alone and lost in Taipei? Has she seen this site? If so, she might think that this is a playboy site and might not have good feelings about you meeting me. lol

What days are you mostly free?

How late are you allowed to stay out? Does she allow you to go to expat clubs?
Last edited by Winston on Mon May 17, 2010 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Winston » Mon May 17, 2010 6:16 pm

Btw, no I do not do anything bad to make TW girls look creeped out. I simply smile or wave or say hi, or just "Shau Jie". The reason they are creeped is not cause of my approach, it's the simple fact that they do not expect that a stranger will talk to them out of nowhere like that. It's inappropriate and unexpected and so that in itself scares them. I do not look scary or intimidating at all.

Even Momopi told me once that if you go around and say "Shau jie, Ni hau" it will come across as creepy.

How come when I am in Taipei, I do not see the foreign guys trying to meet girls? They just mind their own business and get to where they're going? I see them talking to girls in coffee shops like Starbucks, but I doubt if they randomly chatted them up. They probably knew them somewhere or from a language exchange site?

Btw, I've written TW girls before on Tealit.com and Tagged.com and very few write back, and those that do, do not usually want to meet but just chat online. Only the girls at Couchsurfing.com who are avid travelers want to meet, but only platonically.

That's obviously a bad sign if they don't even write me back online.
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Postby Winston » Mon May 17, 2010 6:18 pm

Btw Rock, have you ever had this experience before, where a TW girl gives you her number and say she wants to "make friends" with you. But then when you call her, she always says she works 6 or 7 days a week and never has any time to do anything?

WTF is up with that?

One even told me that she only has one day off the WHOLE YEAR, and that's on Chinese New Year!
Check out the latest posts in our blog The Happier Abroaders.

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Postby Rock » Mon May 17, 2010 6:33 pm

Winston wrote:Rock,
Well maybe you can tell your gf that you are just showing me around or that I am alone and lost in Taipei? Has she seen this site? If so, she might think that this is a playboy site and might not have good feelings about you meeting me. lol

What days are you mostly free?

How late are you allowed to stay out? Does she allow you to go to expat clubs?


Yea she's seen a lot of the photos on your site. She doesn't go through the written stuff though. She got a kick out of some of the vids of you smooching with the Russian girls.

My schedule is fairly flexible and weekdays are good. Perhaps I can do a trial run first solo to see if I get any positive results.

As for the playboy bias, I've tried to help her understand the natural drive of many men and over time, she has partially absorbed this. Basically I tell her to be flexible and not judge others for their lifestyle choices. We should just focus on our own behavior and not mind other people's business.
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Postby Rock » Mon May 17, 2010 7:00 pm

Winston wrote:Btw, no I do not do anything bad to make TW girls look creeped out. I simply smile or wave or say hi, or just "Shau Jie". The reason they are creeped is not cause of my approach, it's the simple fact that they do not expect that a stranger will talk to them out of nowhere like that. It's inappropriate and unexpected and so that in itself scares them. I do not look scary or intimidating at all.

Even Momopi told me once that if you go around and say "Shau jie, Ni hau" it will come across as creepy.

How come when I am in Taipei, I do not see the foreign guys trying to meet girls? They just mind their own business and get to where they're going? I see them talking to girls in coffee shops like Starbucks, but I doubt if they randomly chatted them up. They probably knew them somewhere or from a language exchange site?

Btw, I've written TW girls before on Tealit.com and Tagged.com and very few write back, and those that do, do not usually want to meet but just chat online. Only the girls at Couchsurfing.com who are avid travelers want to meet, but only platonically.

That's obviously a bad sign if they don't even write me back online.


Personally, I think saying 'xiaojie' in a certain way (extending the second syllable) sounds sleazy, reminiscent of guys calling out to a hostess at a club. I can visualize this coming out of the mouth of some dazed taxi / truck driver type addressing the beatle nut girl at her stand. But if pronounced in the neutral way, it is commonly used in public similar to the way we use miss. Something like "bu hao yise..." or "qingwen..." are polite and therefore less likely to offend right off the bat.

I'm guessing that a lot of foreigner concentrate their efforts in clubs and maybe the Internet as well as contacts through friends or school. I was lucky enough to know a couple of guys who would approach anywhere and everywhere. Sometimes, it was really interesting or funny just to watch them. Some of the people who watch your vids probably get the same sort of entertainment value as well.

I've never used Tealit except to find tenants for my spare room. One of my friends met a few girls there but just one went progressed beyond a first date. Several years ago, I met a few decent ones on Asia Friend Finder. I doubt that site is used much here anymore.
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Postby Rock » Mon May 17, 2010 7:20 pm

Winston wrote:Btw Rock, have you ever had this experience before, where a TW girl gives you her number and say she wants to "make friends" with you. But then when you call her, she always says she works 6 or 7 days a week and never has any time to do anything?

WTF is up with that?

One even told me that she only has one day off the WHOLE YEAR, and that's on Chinese New Year!


Yes, many times. And not just in Taiwan. Some girls are just really busy. Others are making excuses. And many are just flaky.

Its difficult to get anywhere with these girls and unless you really like them, usually not worth the effort. But if she's your dream girl or close to it, you can try to correspond via email or chat. If that works, and she gets some comfort with you, try to move at least some of the interactions over the phone. Phone is more personal and can ultimately open the girl up to you in some cases. If she digs your phone persona enough, she will open a small door of her life to you and you will get your chance. That's a lot of time and work though which could still lead to a dead-end. So you better really like her a lot.

BTW, I've also had girls I first met tell me they have no time. But later, they become free and available. Those are polite initial rejections followed by an eventual change of mind.
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