Approaching Taiwan girls - Response to Winston

[Winston]

Rock,
Holy mackerel. Look at what this new forum member told me about Taiwan. It looks like he may even be doing better there than you did. lol

Hi Winston,

Are you going straight to Taiwan next week? I'll be there soon. I used to live there on and off since 1989. I speak some Mandarin (white guy from California).
What will you do there? Wink -the usual? or do you have family to visit or something?
I'd love to hang out. I know a bunch of great veg restaurants --- so easy there. And yes, I know HappyCow well. Nice seeing the banners on your site.

Let me know when you'll be there and which city you plan on hanging in. Would be great to see you in action. IMO- Taiwan girls are easy, but take a little time. I once dated 5 at the same time and they all knew about each other. Worked fine for the first few months.... sometimes had sex with 3 in one day.
Eventually they each wanted more. Two of them followed me back to California.... at different times obviously. One is still after me 7 years later and I'll likely stay with her in Taipei next week.

Well now he says that he agrees that TW is conservative and repressed, and that I am right about that, but yet he still claims that TW women are approachable. Isn't that ironic? lol

Posted a reply but looks like it was lost. Are you headed straight to taiwan? Would be cool to meet you there and watch you in action. I feel Taiwanese women are very approachable, but pretty conservative and require a while to open up.
I lived there on and off 1989-2005. I'll be there soon. When will you be there? And where do you stay? With you're family? I'll stay with an ex gf 1st nite in Taipei.
Love the veg food options there but I agree with your article on it being a conservative place which adds a weight on my shoulders... So repressed.
Btw, Very surreal seeing the happy cow ads on ur site. I use the site a lot. Smile
Happier abroad is such a different focus, cool that you're bringing veg into it.

[dragonboy]

Hi everyone,

Great topic, thanks... I skimmed a lot of it so sorry if I post something covered already.

So I'm that new guy which Winston mentioned.

I lived on & off in Taiwan since 1989. Back in the days it was different,... locals had very little contact with foreigners and there was a lot of novelty (especially in Tainan- my first city). I'm not convinced that it's changed, though I'm pretty out of the loop since for the past 7 years since I've been married (to a Taiwanese American). In my days there totaling 3+years, I've dated 50+ women and had amazing experiences. There have also been some dry spells when I felt it impossible to connect with anyone.
I have a psychology background and reflected a lot on this... How can Taiwanese gals be conservative and repressed, yet at the same time it seems like a free for all, pick of the litter situation?

Some days I'd leave the comforts of my apartment and immediately be greeted by smiles and people wanting to say hello / chit chat, while other days I'd walk outside and feel completely invisible, isolated, and find it impossible to get eye contact with anyone, much less a smile. So what gives?

Meditating on this, I felt convinced it had to do with me, not the day or some astrological events.

Getting my Taiwan Groove On:

I soon found that the lighter I could keep my heart, and be grounded, with "happy energy", the more open to approach women were.

Then, I noticed it's necessary in the beginning of contact to keep in tune with innocence. Most of the girls I met there had little or no dating experience. Taiwanese guys are usually very shy and find it hard to approach women. This makes it easier for a guy if you can get over fear of rejection or concern about looking stupid and just come across as sweet and innocent. I've noticed that some guys using a more aloof approach (being funny like a clown) also works well. But there needs to be an innocence, so for at least the first couple dates you need to put all those dirty thoughts someplace deep and out of sight.

The next layer requires there to be trust. If you're meeting someone on the street, start especially slow. Ask for help on something you genuinely need, like finding a location. (note: I speak some Mandarin and that likely helps). Start with eye contact if possible and shine that happy, innocence her way.

Lose the agenda. At least keep it hidden. Make her feel that you're just excited to make a new friend and keep it short (unless she suggests something else). Get her number/ email and wait a day before contacting her. In other words it often takes time (usually).

Most of my gfs were found in social situations with friends. I also taught English to wannabe flight attendants no less, which made for some easy situations.
Some of the most beautiful women I dated I met while walking in Taipei and Tamshui, or on the MRT. Once while walking along the Tamshui river boardwalk mid-day, I locked eyes with one of the most gorgeous gals I'd ever seen. We both stopped in our tracks and within a few minutes were kissing (in public), really unheard of I imagine. We dated for a while, I was her first man, she was 22, I 35. Her mother convinced her she couldn't date a foreigner and it was over in a few weeks. Can't forget her though.

This brings me to the one thing which I believe can really change your luck with Taiwanese women, an understanding of their brainwashing. While the girls there want to be independent and free, they are bound by intense cultural stigma and conditioning. Unless they've totally broken ties with their family (rare, but sometimes the case- btw- these often are the gals who are really crazy), they carry the weight of thinking they need to save themselves for 'the one' and as they are all so shy, for many this never happens. So they've lived their lives waiting for this romantic fairy-tale man to come and find them... if you can tune into that everything is possible.

Years of repressed sexual expression make for amazing opportunities for endless sex explorations.
Once they fall for you, it's possible to change this life long hypnosis into whatever you want. Start quick though, otherwise you'll be a heart breaker and wind up in a messy situation. I often used a line like this at that time, "I think you're wonderful, but you need to understand, I'm not interested in a committed relationship now and I want to keep my options open."...the disclaimer

-esacha

[Rock]

Hi everyone,

Great topic, thanks... I skimmed a lot of it so sorry if I post something covered already.

So I'm that new guy which Winston mentioned.

I lived on & off in Taiwan since 1989. Back in the days it was different,... locals had very little contact with foreigners and there was a lot of novelty (especially in Tainan- my first city). I'm not convinced that it's changed, though I'm pretty out of the loop since for the past 7 years since I've been married (to a Taiwanese American). In my days there totaling 3+years, I've dated 50+ women and had amazing experiences. There have also been some dry spells when I felt it impossible to connect with anyone.
I have a psychology background and reflected a lot on this... How can Taiwanese gals be conservative and repressed, yet at the same time it seems like a free for all, pick of the litter situation?

Some days I'd leave the comforts of my apartment and immediately be greeted by smiles and people wanting to say hello / chit chat, while other days I'd walk outside and feel completely invisible, isolated, and find it impossible to get eye contact with anyone, much less a smile. So what gives?

Meditating on this, I felt convinced it had to do with me, not the day or some astrological events.

Getting my Taiwan Groove On:

I soon found that the lighter I could keep my heart, and be grounded, with "happy energy", the more open to approach women were.

Then, I noticed it's necessary in the beginning of contact to keep in tune with innocence. Most of the girls I met there had little or no dating experience. Taiwanese guys are usually very shy and find it hard to approach women. This makes it easier for a guy if you can get over fear of rejection or concern about looking stupid and just come across as sweet and innocent. I've noticed that some guys using a more aloof approach (being funny like a clown) also works well. But there needs to be an innocence, so for at least the first couple dates you need to put all those dirty thoughts someplace deep and out of sight.

The next layer requires there to be trust. If you're meeting someone on the street, start especially slow. Ask for help on something you genuinely need, like finding a location. (note: I speak some Mandarin and that likely helps). Start with eye contact if possible and shine that happy, innocence her way.

Lose the agenda. At least keep it hidden. Make her feel that you're just excited to make a new friend and keep it short (unless she suggests something else). Get her number/ email and wait a day before contacting her. In other words it often takes time (usually).

Most of my gfs were found in social situations with friends. I also taught English to wannabe flight attendants no less, which made for some easy situations.
Some of the most beautiful women I dated I met while walking in Taipei and Tamshui, or on the MRT. Once while walking along the Tamshui river boardwalk mid-day, I locked eyes with one of the most gorgeous gals I'd ever seen. We both stopped in our tracks and within a few minutes were kissing (in public), really unheard of I imagine. We dated for a while, I was her first man, she was 22, I 35. Her mother convinced her she couldn't date a foreigner and it was over in a few weeks. Can't forget her though.

This brings me to the one thing which I believe can really change your luck with Taiwanese women, an understanding of their brainwashing. While the girls there want to be independent and free, they are bound by intense cultural stigma and conditioning. Unless they've totally broken ties with their family (rare, but sometimes the case- btw- these often are the gals who are really crazy), they carry the weight of thinking they need to save themselves for 'the one' and as they are all so shy, for many this never happens. So they've lived their lives waiting for this romantic fairy-tale man to come and find them... if you can tune into that everything is possible.

Years of repressed sexual expression make for amazing opportunities for endless sex explorations.
Once they fall for you, it's possible to change this life long hypnosis into whatever you want. Start quick though, otherwise you'll be a heart breaker and wind up in a messy situation. I often used a line like this at that time, "I think you're wonderful, but you need to understand, I'm not interested in a committed relationship now and I want to keep my options open."...the disclaimer

-esacha

esacha, you sound like someone who has gone below the surface to see Taiwan for what it really is. My experiences are quite similar to your in many respects. However, many of the girls I ended up dating were met via cold approaches out in public places, often during the day. Also, I've tended to have good luck with their families in cases where I've met the parents.

You are absolutely right that it often helps a lot to appear very pure and innocent when approaching most of the regular girls on the street. You need a bit of time (via phone convo or dates) to build-up trust and a connection. Once they feel that though, they often open up quite quickly. This is the flip side to being repressed.

Like you, I've had some spontaneous encounters whereby I would get intimate with a girl on the spot (rarely) or on the first date (quite often). There is a subset of girls who will just like you on first sight and will make it quite clear in their body language. There are others who will be more reserved but will warm-up to you over time as they get to know you. And of course there are many who will never give you a chance for various reasons - not attracted/interested, have bf, lesbian (Taipei has a lot of lesbian or bisexual women), etc.

I understand why PI is popular with a lot of guys. Clearly, there are lots of dating opportunities there for western men. But in general, Taiwanese girls are so much more attractive, sexy, and feminine on average IMO. And if you win them over, they tend to make great companions and wonderful long term gfs.

[Winston]

Hi dragonboy,

I'm in Taiwan now. Boy it feels like a different world. I can see how if you don't like to speak Mandarin, it will alienate/segregate you from society here. lol. I sure wouldn't like to be a foreigner in TW who doesn't speak Chinese. That sure would suck and feel very alienating.

I tried making eye contact with TW girls at the airport, but they would not look at me. But I've also noticed something I didn't before.

Like you said, they act super innocent. It's part of their communication style, esp in groups. But what I've noticed is that it's very fake. In groups they talk to each other like they are all super innocent. But no one can be that innocent. This fake innocence is in their mannerisms, voice, expression, word content, personality, etc.

Have you noticed this too?

The problem is, it's hard for me to vibe with it or go with the flow of it. I don't act super innocent and child like. To act that way is very immature and it's super cheesy too. You know what I mean? Any suggestions?

Also, their communication style is very indirect and slippery. It's like they are on a different wavelength. This means I can't talk to them in an open direct manner like I can with women in other countries. Thus that makes it hard to even start a conversation with them. I mean, what can I say? If I just say "Hi how are you?" it will be ignored and look creepy too. I can't figure out a way to start a conversation with a TW girl that fits within the "flow of things". You know what I mean?

The trick is to get them talking too. But how do you do that with TW people? They are so different in every way. Esp girls. Girls are not direct with strangers. They have a subtle indirectness that makes opening up a conversation difficult. Do you know what I mean? It's like a sort of "slippery-ness" that I can't put a figure on.

How do you deal with that?

Plus, nearly 100 percent of them ignore me anyway. They do not stop if I say hi or excuse me. So what can I do? What question can I ask them that will open up a conversation? Surely not "What time is it?"

The other night though, when my parents were walking on the lake nearby at night, I saw these two young TW girls sitting nearby and talking a lot. They were shouting random things at the cars passing by, so I thought they were probably a bit floosy, so I might have a chance at getting them to talk to me? lol

One of them had really sexy legs too. She saw me gazing at her as I passed by. Then, when I winked at her, she looked at her friend and laughed. After that, she didn't make eye contact with me again. For some reason, TW girls make me feel shy, like a school boy. I don't know why. Other FW don't do that to me.

When I waited by our car for my folks to return, she and her friend continued to chatter on the table. After 10 min or so, the one with sexy legs that I liked told her friend in Chinese, "I'm going to have a chat/conversation". I thought she was gonna talk on her cell phone, but instead she walked my way, approaching the rear side of our car, in very slow steps, which was unusual since young people tend to walk fast, not slow. But she was walking very slowly. I don't know why. Was she looking for someone she knew around the parking lot, that was there earlier? Or was she coming my way, hoping that I'd talk to her?

Either way, she wasn't making eye contact with me, so I assumed she wasn't trying to talk to me. But since TW girls are different than other girls I know, I can't say for sure what she was doing. But it didn't make sense. Usually though, if a girl wants to talk to you, she will at least LOOK AT you. What do you think she was doing?

I was about to say hi to her, but just as she walked behind my car, my parents suddenly came back from their walk!

f**k! GOD DAMN IT! MURPHY'S LAW STRIKES AGAIN!

I don't feel comfortable trying to talk to a TW girl with my parents around. It's very awkward. So I was frozen, even though deep down I badly wanted to at least say hi to her.

Why does Murphy's Law control everything? Sheesh! It's like the universe wants to play a practical joke on me.

I do not believe in coincidence. Get this. When I'm out with Dianne, I see a hot Filipina that I want to meet EVERY FIVE MINUTES! But when I'm alone, I hardly see any! This has happened 20 or 30 times in a row!!!!!!!! That's not a coincidence. Murphy's Law definitely rules here. No one can explain why. But it does. I have tons of examples like that.

Here I look for a chance to meet a sexy TW girl for 20 min, and when she finally comes my way, my parents come back at the exact same time! f**k! Why does that always happen? Now I'll never know what would have happened if I had said hi. She was floosy, so there was probably a chance of her talking to a stranger.

But the way she was walking toward the parking lot slowly and aimlessly was odd. What do you think she was doing?

Here is another example of Murphy's Law that's related. When Rock came to visit me in Chiayi last time, all the girls around the area were gone. Not only that, but the traffic in Chiayi suddenly disappeared too! It was weird. Usually the traffic is busy in Chiayi. But then Rock comes and suddenly the traffic is the lightest I've ever seen! There's no one to talk to but old people around! But when Rock is not here, there are many young girls hanging out that are unapproachable to me when I'm by myself. See what I mean? If I can't approach them, then all the girls come out to torture me! But when Rock comes (and he is good at getting TW girls to open up and talk to him) they all disappear! WTF?

This is just one of thousands of consistent examples of Murphy's Law. f**k. Why does Murphy's Law always rule? I hate it!

[Rock]

Winston

What I don't get is why are you shy to talk to girls in front of your parents but have no qualms about sharing the details of your sex life (including being with Angeles City bargirls) or showing them your website. I remember you dad even browses it on his own sometimes. Since they are in the loop on your private life anyway, why not act as if they are just your friends hanging out with you and have some fun. You could even get your dad to critique your performance or use him as a prop ("I usually don't introduce my parents to girls until I know them better but I gotta good feeling about you. What's your name? OK, Tammy, I'm Winston, this is my dad and this is my mom. Mom and dad, this is Tammy, the cutest girl in Chiayi. So Tammy, where are your parents now? Why don't you invite them over so we can all make friends?" - all said in a casual and joking type of tone. Play it from there depending on how she responds). Your parents are retired and have a lot of idle time on their hands. They might enjoy some entertainment. Give it a try sometime.

[Winston]

Because if they saw me approaching a girl, they would get critical and interrupt my conversation with her. That would rile me up since TW girls make me tense cause they are so alien and totally different from all the other foreign women I'm used to. I don't even know what to say to open up a conversation with them. Saying hi or how are you or asking the time isn't usually going to get them talking.

If you had been there, it would have been much easier. But then again, Murphy's Law says that if you had been there, those girls probably wouldn't have been there.

Would you approach girls in front of your parents?

[momopi]

I just flew back from Taiwan. Was there for few days to attend a funeral. Got some nice vegetarian restaurant pics!

Since I only spend about 2-4 weeks a year in Taiwan, my options are more limited than those who reside there full time. When I was actively dating girls in Taiwan, I'd meet girls mainly through social connections, then chat them up over IM or Skype for few months before going back to date them. Sometimes to girl would come to the US to visit instead. Taiwanese girls don't like to waste time, so if they have no interest in you, they wouldn't be chatting with you daily online, or say things like your meeting with her has yuanfen (predestined). From 2006-2008, I was involved with several relationships in Taipei and Taichung. Sometimes the girl would be dating someone else but didn't bother to tell you (or made you the backup), and when you visit they make themselves scarce with some excuse like "my relative is in the hospital". You just have to shrug it off and go down the list in your phone directory.

Due to social expectations, many of the girls would at least put up a front of being a good girl. After you date them a few times and the panties tend to drop. I've dated conservative Catholic Vietnamese girls who told me they'd remain a virgin until marriage in week 1, and by month's end their panties dropped anyway. Only a small % of the girls are true to their vow of virginity until marriage. On that note, I don't recommend taking a girl's virginity unless if you're in it for the long term. It can get pretty messy when you want to bail. The conservative Catholic Vietnamese girl mentioned above resulted in an on and off 6 year mess that was as sticky as cutting a lotus root. If I could turn back the clock, I think I'd have taught her to use her tongue well instead of breaking and entering.

Taiwanese girls are often less conservative than some might think. What they tell you is what they want you to know, and they think what you don't know won't kill you. Some start experimenting with relationships from Jr. High and their parents never find out about it. If you walk by a high school when students arrive or depart, it's fairly common to see boyfriends dropping off or picking up their GF on a scooter. When it's your turn to date the girl, she might say that you're her first real BF, or she only had 1 BF previously. I recall one girl who told me that she only went out to dinner with guys a few times previously and that I was her first real BF. Later I found out that she had 2 boyfriends before me (gee um... that's a nice dried rose bouquet you have hanging in your room). But let's be fair, Taiwanese men are famous for bao-er-nai in Shanghai.

Because Taiwan is a smaller place, college students often live at home instead of moving out. And even after college many kids still live at home. Like the US, there are guys who mature faster and end up dating more girls, and then there's the late bloomers and home boys (宅男) who are like otakus & stay home to play video games instead of going out. Here's an otaku bedroom:



A friend of mine who graduated from UCLA moved back to TW to help out with her parent's business, and was introduced to a local guy by family friends. She told him up front that when she was in the US, she had a long-term BF and had lived with him for 2 years (read: not a virgin). After dating with him for few weeks she indicated that if he'd like her to spend the night, she'd be OK with it. She told that everything went well ("nerds are more horny") until the morning, she was laying in his arms, when he suddenly said "don't worry, I'll be responsible / take responsibility". She said she almost fainted at his level of "宅"-ness. He proposed marriage shortly after and insisted that she'd move in to his family residence and live with the mother in law after marriage. Needless to say she bailed and is now getting her MBA in Beijing.

So you see Winston, people who lived in the US and moved back to TW will find cultural conflicts and issues. As a Taiwanese, if you want to succeed in TW, you'd need to learn Chinese and local customs and methods of communication. A foreigner (read; white) can be excused based on his skin color and given different expectations, but not you. So stop playing chess and start playing go. If you can't do that, then consider visiting China and see if the environment fits you better. Mainland Chinese are more direct to the point, and because China is bigger, when college students go to school, they often move across vast distances, and when BF/GF hook up in college they tend to move in together (this is far less common in TW).

[momopi]

Anyways, here's the photos from the upscale vegetarian joint in Taipei:

This is the bowl that you wash your fingers in:






Vegetarian sushi (tasted like salmon sashimi too, wonder what they used for the flavoring):


Imitation meat pork ribs












This imitation fatty pork is made with winter melon

[Winston]

Momopi,
I agree with your assessment of TW female psychology. In TW, you have to be properly introduced for girls to be friendly to you. When I was properly introduced by a college teacher to a class of girls at Dam Sui University in 1990-1, all the girls were laughing and giggling at everything I said. Two of them called me the next day after the teacher wrote down my phone number on the chalk board.

The problem is that people like Rock, who is very intelligent and sincere, strongly insists that TW girls are very open and direct with strangers, like Russian girls are, and he stands by it 100 percent. That's a mystery I can't figure out. It'd be like your friend you knew, who was intelligent and sincere, constantly telling you that the sky was red, not blue, and saying that he stands by it 100 percent. It's total bizarro world. You would swear that he is wrong based on your experience. But on the other hand, you know that he is credible and not lying. Thus it's a huge contradiction that makes no sense.

I don't think it's all about looks. Many TW guys who don't look attractive, or are less attractive than me, have hot skinny girlfriends, I've seen.

But you have to have connections to meet girls, or connecting activities. They don't make eye contact with you in public and then come over and chat with you (unless you are a white or black guy).

But even if you do meet them, they are very picky and have high standards, so it would be hard to take it beyond a platonic level, unless she was average looking.

One thing is for sure though. TW girls are NOT like other foreign women at all. I mean foreign women outside the NE Asian sphere. They are like a different breed or species.

It's just very hard to break the ice with them without connections. Like you said before Momopi, saying "Ni hau" to them would be creepy. So if you can't even say hi to them, it makes it unnatural to try to break the ice. I've seen Rock break the ice with them though. He is good at it. But like you said, they give him leeway cause he's white, and they find it fascinating that a white guy can speak Chinese so well, kind of like how Russian girls find it interesting that I can speak to them in Russian, and give me some leeway for it.

If you put Rock's brain and soul into my body, he would be shocked and horrified at how TW girls react to him and how it is 10000000000000000000 percent different than what he is used to. lol

But even Rock told me that one reason why he thinks Angeles City is fun, is because there, picking up girls is like "point and click" - like pointing to an icon on your desktop and clicking on it. It's that easy. lol Obviously, when something is easy, it becomes very tempting. lol

Btw, to be honest Momopi, your vegetarian food pics don't look that appetizing. The food looks bland and mediocre. I've had much better. And in fact, the table and restaurant decor around the food looks far nicer than the food itself. lol

The vegetarian food I posted from Palawan looks much better. Have you seen it? It's in the thread I posted about it here:
viewtopic.php?t=11324

[momopi]

Well, some guys have game and others don't. It's not something that can be taught. You either have it or you don't. Also, game is not universally applicable.

I have 3 Taiwanese friends here in Irvine who are good at chatting up girls. The first is the father of my god-daughter. Back in early 2000's we'd hit the night markets in TW and he'd just walk up and chat up the girls. We'd end up taking a couple girls and a male relative escort to the shrimp fishing ponds, and by night's end we'd exchange yahoo IM ID / email /phone #'s with the girls. But, if you put him in a restaurant in the US, he couldn't chat up a waitress to save his life.

The second Taiwanese friend is very good at chatting up waitresses and cafe girls. He's actually married to a former waitress at a Japanese restaurant. He just went in and hit on the best looking Japanese girl working there, and she dumped her fiance and moved in with him. When we visit local Vietnamese bikini coffee bars, unless if I knew the girl well (as a regular or as friend) they usually won't exchange more than a few words with me. But when he's there, as soon as he starts talking, the girls would stop and sit down with us.

The first 2 friends I mentioned are of average height and appearance. But they have charisma in specific situations with specific target groups. When they want girls, they still have to work it. My 3rd Taiwanese friend is a tall handsome Taiwanese doctor who's good at flirting and remain innocent looking at the same time. When we visit Taiwanese pubs with friends, I've seen girls from the group throwing themselves at him and Taiwanese waitresses try to flirt with him (he actually took one home). But if you take this guy to a Vietnamese bikini coffee bar, he'd sit there like deer trapped in headlights.




All 3 of the friends mentioned above are better at their specific game than me. I'm not them and I don't play as well as them in their game, so I find my way through building rings of extended social circles. I did have a few successes with cold approaches in Taiwan and on planes (with flight attendants), but those are exceptions and not the rule for me. IMO Asian guys start off with better access to Asian girls from immediate social circles, but many are late bloomers or don't appreciate what's been given or put in front of them. TW is not a "click and date" place, but for those who want it easy, they can simply import a bride. If TW was a super easy place to get hitched, Taiwanese men wouldn't have bothered to import 400,000-450,000 foreign brides.

As for the vegetarian restaurant in TPE, it's like mostly fake/imitation meats. You'd think that as a vegetarian place, they'd be good at cooking veggies instead. ;p

[dragonboy]

Hi Winston,

I'm thinking that your shyness/lack-of-confidence with TW is because it's close to home and brings back your conditioning. Let go of caring what these girls think, or whether they like you or not. Just approach them from a place of confidence, maybe by imaging you are in another country and just a visitor there. Loose the mental "self-consciousness" and stop being concerned with how you look. Get in rapport by finding a playful/innocent side to yourself. Later on you can show your true colors.

[Winston]

Hi Rock,
I'm in Taichung now staying with a friend from couchsurfing. Last night, I told my friend about you and how girls here respond to you completely different than they do to me, and how white people experience a different Taiwan than Asians do. She told me that she gets attention everywhere she goes, in Taiwan and in other countries, so she can't really relate to any of it.

But she introduced me to a Taiwanese guy renting a room in her house. He was an engineer, tall and skinny too. We went out for a beer, and she told me to ask him if he agreed with my assertions about how TW girls don't talk to Asian guys without a proper introduction through a mutual friend. He confirmed that what I said was CORRECT, that if you are an Asian guy, girls here do not like to talk to you without an introduction through a mutual friend. It was true. I was right. The conformist drone girls here follow that rule. He also said that he noticed that TW girls get less defensive when approached by a foreign white guy, for some reason. My friend was surprised and said that she never knew that.

I told her a lot about you and made her curious to meet you. She says she wants to see you approach TW girls, cause I told her how you are so good at it compared to me. But in the US, you would be clueless as to how to approach American girls. lol (probably even worse at it than me?) She wants to meet you when you return to TW.

I've noticed something very apparent here. The way people communicate is totally different than in other countries. There is no "relaxed directness" at all. It's hard to explain what I mean. It's hard to put into words. Do you understand what I mean? I'm not talking about language. This is more about communication STYLE.

Here's an example of what I mean. If I'm sitting next to a Westerner stranger, and the room is very hot, I can turn to him/her and say, "Man it sure is hot in here isn't it?" and he/she will usually say, "Oh yeah. I know! I wish they had the decency to put an aircon here or at least a fan." That is a typical way that strangers can start up a natural conversation. But it doesn't work that way in Taiwan. I don't know why. There is a strange inherent "indirectness" (especially with girls and young women) that would make such a conversation out of the blue totally unnatural and out of the flow. Do you get what I mean?

Momopi, Dragonboy, do you get what I mean?

When communication is not direct and to the point, like I'm used to, it's hard to describe it in words. It's like TW people are on such a different wavelength (one that I can't connect to) that I cannot even communicate with them in a basic natural conversation. It just doesn't flow. This has NOTHING to do with language, by the way. It's something else, something I can't really put a finger on. Do you have any idea what I mean?

[leavingusa]

Making a comment that the room is hot would actually be indirect. Saying "hey I saw you from over there and I had to meet you, what's your name?" - that's direct.

Personally I'm unnerved when people talk about the weather with me, I don't know what they want. Perhaps you could try a bit more direct approach or would they scatter like birds?

[Rock]

Momopi,


The problem is that people like Rock, who is very intelligent and sincere, strongly insists that TW girls are very open and direct with strangers, like Russian girls are, and he stands by it 100 percent. That's a mystery I can't figure out. It'd be like your friend you knew, who was intelligent and sincere, constantly telling you that the sky was red, not blue, and saying that he stands by it 100 percent. It's total bizarro world. You would swear that he is wrong based on your experience. But on the other hand, you know that he is credible and not lying. Thus it's a huge contradiction that makes no sense.

Winston, I really gotta remind you, I haven't been claiming that Taiwan girls are open and direct with strangers. I've just said that there are ways to crack many of them, for some guys at least. I don't even think it requires a great gaming skills for westerners. Just the balls to approach.

If you are a tame and innocent looking 20s western guy, perhaps even the kind who gets picked on and called 'faggot' in the States, many of the girls in Taiwan may find you very cute and safe looking. Some will approach you and come-up with excuses to make friends, hang-out with you, etc. Also, you can get local friends to introduce you around, sell you to the locals (he wants to make Taiwan friends and learn more about Chinese culture), and even set you up with potential girlfriends. Many Taiwanese are very proud about their culture and love to share it with foreigners. Clubbing will be a blast and you can pick-up as much as you like if that's your thing. If you want more innocent types, hit the bookstores and college campuses, MRT, buses, etc. during the day and evening.

In your 30s, you can become a career man with a cool namecard and money to spend OR if you look young for your age, you can continue to dress and act like a 20 something and pull-off the lifestyle as an English teacher for some years. Either way, you should still do quite well and have plenty of prospects, dates, fun going out, etc.

But let me repeat again, I DON'T CLAIM THAT TAIWAN GIRLS ARE OPEN AND DIRECT. If they were, perhaps Taiwan would not be so good for younger western guys. There are some codes and styles of communication which can be frustrating and require some patience. And of course, rejection is always part of the process. Unless you are very young and cute or just plain handsome, you will have to put in some work and take the rejections in stride. But, its nothing like PU in the States where you approach hundreds of girls and get virtually nothing. In 10 approaches, you might very well score 1, 2, maybe 3 times in Taiwan if you are the type of guy who fits in there. And by score, I mean achieve what you are aiming for (eventual gf, casual sex, an activity partner, good friend, even fiance).

BTW Winston, if I wa in your skin, the first thing I would do is make some local young female friends (and I know you already have some) and get them to help me make myself over. Discuss a strategy with them to become as attractive as possible to local girls. It might include some weight loss (which will also be good for your heart and probably make you feel better and more energetic), working out and changing diet, help with clothes and accessory shopping, etc. Your friends can even help you approach girls (I've had girls do that for me before). And I would execute the plan with 100% effort. Some western guys can look like unkempt loser English teachers and still manage to do OK with local women. But for ABC dudes, I think you are expected to be more on the ball or they just think you are some kind of sleazy uncle type. Talk to the girls you trust and experiment a bit.

[Winston]

But Rock, you said once that TW girls are just as approachable as Russian girls, remember? When I showed you an approachable RW face, you said that TW girls are that approachable too. Remember?

Anyhow, that's all good. But the problem is, right now it's summer weather here, and everywhere in TW there are tons of hot girls with skinny sexy smooth white legs. It's torture to be able to only look but not touch.

What can you do about it? Here in Taichung, everyday such girls walk by me. They make ZERO eye contact, and when I say "Hi what's up" or "Excuse me miss" or "Wow you look so hot" they walk on by as if they do not see me. What can you do about that? Can you tell me specifically?

Rock, question for you. If you see hot TW girls in public walking by and you say "excuse me" or "hi" do they usually stop for you? If so, what percentage of the time? Have you ever tried to greet one and she just walks on like you're not there? If so, how does that make you feel? You must know what that's like right?

Did you read my last post? That TW engineer guy said that I was right, that TW girls do not like cold approaches from Asian guys, but they are less defensive with white guys. Cold approaches are very abnormal here. Ask any TW couple and they will tell you that they met through friends, school, work, etc. I've said this many times in this thread. Do you understand that? How do you explain it?

You may be an exception, and your friends may be too, but overall in general, most people do not cold approach women, and most women do not like cold approaches. It isn't the norm.

Have you asked your honest Taiwanese guy friends about this yet? And I mean TW guys who do not BS or follow political correctness, but tell it like it is.

Women tend to be uncomfortable talking about how approachable girls are, so you will not get a clear answer from them about this issue. They can't relate and it's too politically incorrect for them to discuss it. They also dislike this kind of topic for some reason.

TW girls also act super innocent when they talk, so it makes me feel guilty for having any desires for them. lol. It's really weird. Their shyness rubs off on me too. They also make me feel vulernable. I don't know why.

Why did you say that if TW girls were open and direct, that it would make TW not as good for foreign white guys?

Some TW people have introduced me to their friends, but they are never the type that have long white sexy legs, like you see everywhere. I told you, my life is governed by Murphy's Law. Remember? The universe likes to tease me and make what I want unreachable.

Question for Rock and Momopi:

So basically, you two are saying that I am the ONLY guy you know that has problems finding a date in Taiwan or meeting women? Everyone else you know has no problem? I find that VERY VERY hard to believe.