Approaching Taiwan girls - Response to Winston

[Rock]

Hi all,
I met a really cute Taiwanese girl from DateInAsia yesterday. She brought her friend of course. (Rock says it's called "bringing a teddy bear" in Taiwan, when a girl brings along a friend to meet a guy for the first time)

We had a good time and vibed well. She has a fun playful outgoing personality and spoke really good English, since she has a lot of foreign friends for practice. Her body language toward me was pretty positive too.

When we were at the night market, I was amazed at the way her and her friend kept acting shameful every time I paid for their snacks. In the Philippines that would NEVER EVER EVER happen! It was very refreshing and felt very validating to see so much consideration from girls like that. And it made me want to be even more generous. I even carried the backpack of one of them. They said "Wow you are so thoughtful and considerate" and I said "Nah, it's just basic manners. That's all."

When we were on the bus, we met another nice Taiwanese woman, and I got her number.

I guess when you are around the right people, things flow much more smoothly in Taiwan!

Wow, glad to read that you're finally getting out and about in Chiayi. BTW, the "teddy bear" expression has nothing to do with Taiwan. I believe it was first coined by the infamous Don Steele, of steelballs.com, the guy who shows old geezers how to date young women. In Taiwan, they call that 老牛吃嫩草 (old bull eats fresh grass).

[Winston]

Repatriate, here is a typical average looking Taiwanese guy with a hot Taiwanese girl that I found on Facebook. As you can see, you don't have to be a hot guy to get hot girls in Taiwan. This is an example that disproves that. So it is not all about looks like you said. It's about vibes and connection, or "guanxi" (shared connection) as Momopi calls it. It's also possible that this guy was some long term friend of hers who turned into her boyfriend.



See, he looks like a typical dweeb. Nothing special. How is he better than me?

On the other hand, look how hot that girl is.





Thus you don't have to be hot to get hot girls in Taiwan.

[Repatriate]

Repatriate, here is a typical average looking Taiwanese guy with a hot Taiwanese girl that I found on Facebook. As you can see, you don't have to be a hot guy to get hot girls in Taiwan. This is an example that disproves that. So it is not all about looks like you said. It's about vibes and connection, or "guanxi" (shared connection) as Momopi calls it

I wouldn't say she's hot at all. He looks like a nerd but he could have any number of other things going for him such as a stable career or old family relationship with hers. You're leaving out an awful lot of unknown factors in this relationship.

This is how young professionals tend to meet each other in Taiwan...social networking. The ones that go to night clubs and the like to meet people are actually in the minority.

[Repatriate]

See, he looks like a typical dweeb. Nothing special. How is he better than me?

Like I said he could have a stable professional career, be a legitimately smart charming guy, and/or managed to work his way into her comfort zone over years of knowing her.

I have known guys who are exactly like this and they usually have this sweet heart they've been working on for years wearing her down over time. Rock even mentioned this before..some Taiwanese men will pester the same girl for years and be her "friend" until she finally gives in and marries him.

[Winston]

See, he looks like a typical dweeb. Nothing special. How is he better than me?

Like I said he could have a stable professional career, be a legitimately smart charming guy, and/or managed to work his way into her comfort zone over years of knowing her.

I have known guys who are exactly like this and they usually have this sweet heart they've been working on for years wearing her down over time. Rock even mentioned this before..some Taiwanese men will pester the same girl for years and be her "friend" until she finally gives in and marries him.

Exactly. That was my point. So you don't have to be a hot guy to get a hot girl in Taiwan. Therefore, your claim that girls aren't open to me in Taiwan cause of my looks isn't necessarily true. Right? Or did I misunderstand you? You said it was all about my looks before. But it isn't. So aren't you admitting that you were wrong?

If I got involved in social networks, I could easily have a pool of girls that I talked to. Some will flake. But others may not. The girl I met on dateinasia likes me and has been calling me a lot. So it's all possible, and my looks aren't as bad as you made them out to be. Thank God.

[Repatriate]

See, he looks like a typical dweeb. Nothing special. How is he better than me?

Like I said he could have a stable professional career, be a legitimately smart charming guy, and/or managed to work his way into her comfort zone over years of knowing her.

I have known guys who are exactly like this and they usually have this sweet heart they've been working on for years wearing her down over time. Rock even mentioned this before..some Taiwanese men will pester the same girl for years and be her "friend" until she finally gives in and marries him.

Exactly. That was my point. So you don't have to be a hot guy to get a hot girl in Taiwan. Therefore, your claim that girls aren't open to me in Taiwan cause of my looks isn't necessarily true. Right? Or did I misunderstand you? You said it was all about my looks before. But it isn't. So aren't you admitting that you were wrong?

No Winston I didn't say attraction was based solely on looks. I said it helps when you have nothing else going for you and being well dressed/groomed according to the social scene you're in is part of the total package. I'm afraid it all comes back to the fact that you are not someone who has any of the other qualities such as a stable professional career and extremely well calibrated social skills geared for Taiwan which explains part of your lack of success with women. In several posts you've shown a certain amount of condescension towards "fitting in" as you call it even when it's to your own detriment.

If I got involved in social networks, I could easily have a pool of girls that I talked to. Some will flake. But others may not. The girl I met on dateinasia likes me and has been calling me a lot. So it's all possible, and my looks aren't as bad as you made them out to be. Thank God.

No one here said you couldn't find a niche. A lot of people suggested different looks for you etc.. which you treated with contempt. Hey, i'm glad you found a little bit of success. I hope you do better in the future and let us know how it works out.

[Fenix]

Winston, you definitely need new wardrobe. You dress horribly. Tucking in your shirts? That has to stop. Other things you need to do to change your style in clothes. That's one of the main things.

The Taiwanese guy is not ugly and he is also well dressed. He doesn't look like a geek to me. You do look a little old for your age. What are you...36 or somewhere around there? You don't look youthful, vibrant. It's all about presentation. Looks are only a minor part of getting women. You have to have substance too. Looks and money can only get you so far.

[Rock]

Repatriate, here is a typical average looking Taiwanese guy with a hot Taiwanese girl that I found on Facebook. As you can see, you don't have to be a hot guy to get hot girls in Taiwan. This is an example that disproves that. So it is not all about looks like you said. It's about vibes and connection, or "guanxi" (shared connection) as Momopi calls it. It's also possible that this guy was some long term friend of hers who turned into her boyfriend.

See, he looks like a typical dweeb. Nothing special. How is he better than me?

On the other hand, look how hot that girl is.


Thus you don't have to be hot to get hot girls in Taiwan.

IMO, those 2 look equally matched - same aged and similar type, regular looking with skinny bodies, very run of the mill garden variety. Perhaps guy is a bit too scrawny but the girl is not hot or sexy either and too skinny. I don't see how this is an example of a physically mismatched couple. They look like they could be a happy long term pairing to me.

[Winston]

I have a question. One of the girls that I met with Rock in Taichung, whom I've kept in touch with over the phone, is quite a character. She is very flirty and likes to tease guys. She tells you what you want to hear, and then acts like it's a joke or game. I can never tell when she's serious. It's like she enjoys dangling a carrot in front of you and then she suddenly has to go, as if she's always on the run but enjoys getting you excited.

She is nice and all, but it's like everything is a game to her. Why is that? What is her objective? Have any of you ever met girls like that?

She has a beautiful voice though that is pleasant just to hear. It's so soft, crisp and feminine. Some Asian girls have that. It's the kind of voice that puts you in a trance. Maybe she knows that and gets a power trip from it?

Rock, what vibes and impressions of her personality did you get when we were with her? Is she not a genuine person, or semi, or just wacky or what?

[Winston]

Winston, you definitely need new wardrobe. You dress horribly. Tucking in your shirts? That has to stop. Other things you need to do to change your style in clothes. That's one of the main things.

The Taiwanese guy is not ugly and he is also well dressed. He doesn't look like a geek to me. You do look a little old for your age. What are you...36 or somewhere around there? You don't look youthful, vibrant. It's all about presentation. Looks are only a minor part of getting women. You have to have substance too. Looks and money can only get you so far.

F you Pacsun. And why did you change your screen name? You are the only fricking person that thinks that about me. At least I don't look like a convict and felon from the Hood like you do in your photos. Sheesh.

Here I am with girls saying sweet things about me and liking me for me, and then you come and say all that bullshit?

I do not usually tuck in my shirts. Most of my photos here show that. I dress fine. The TW guy is nothing special. I have such shirts as he is wearing too. So what? What is your f***ing problem?

I do have substance. I act cute, look cute, and have good social skills, intelligence, conversation skills, and am polished. You can even ask Rock. I hold my own just fine, and some girls find it cute.

Girls also say I look younger than my age and guess me at younger than I am too. At least I don't look like a criminal like you. I mean look at you:

http://www.myspace.com/phoenixsosa
http://www.facebook.com/phoenixsosa

Yuck!

Stop spreading lies. Get the f**k off this forum you gangster looking convict!

[Rock]

See, he looks like a typical dweeb. Nothing special. How is he better than me?

Like I said he could have a stable professional career, be a legitimately smart charming guy, and/or managed to work his way into her comfort zone over years of knowing her.

I have known guys who are exactly like this and they usually have this sweet heart they've been working on for years wearing her down over time. Rock even mentioned this before..some Taiwanese men will pester the same girl for years and be her "friend" until she finally gives in and marries him.

Exactly. That was my point. So you don't have to be a hot guy to get a hot girl in Taiwan. Therefore, your claim that girls aren't open to me in Taiwan cause of my looks isn't necessarily true. Right? Or did I misunderstand you? You said it was all about my looks before. But it isn't. So aren't you admitting that you were wrong?

If I got involved in social networks, I could easily have a pool of girls that I talked to. Some will flake. But others may not. The girl I met on dateinasia likes me and has been calling me a lot. So it's all possible, and my looks aren't as bad as you made them out to be. Thank God.

A lot of girls will forgive a guy for not being good looking or even ugly. Some hot and not so hot Taiwan girls even try to avoid handsome guys as long term boyfriends cus they don't feel safe with them. For me this thinking seems flawed and I will point it out to them. The most important issue is not how good or bad the guy looks but rather his inner drive - does he naturally tend towards monogamy or is he wanna be player. The good looking monogamous guy is a much better bet than the ugly guy with a wandering eye for the girl who does not want to worry about being cheated on.

Anyway, let me get back to the point - looks. In Taiwan, I believe comfort is the most important first element to building a connection with local girls who you first approach. Its OK to be average looking or even below average as long as your not off the charts. It will just take a bit more time, effort, and luck if you fall at the unfortunate end.

A much bigger hindrance is looking too old. If you appear significantly older than your target, she may unconsciously write you off her potential dating radar from the start. Acceptable age gaps vary a lot depending on the girl. A girl who likes 'older men' could probably dig someone who appeared 6 - 12 years older. Otherwise, its best to appear within 5 years of her age and for the very young (18-20) within 3 years is better. I think the main exceptions are those girls with daddy complexes or the ones looking for rich guys.

Given my view on age vs. looks in Taiwan, I figure a below average looking shortish 25 year old guy with a scrawny build has a better chance at winning over a hot 20 something Taiwanese girl than a guy who looked as good but also as old as George Clooney or Brad Pitt.

I'd be interested in reading opinions from others on this issue - looks vs. age in attracting women - both in Taiwan and elsewhere.

[Winston]

See, he looks like a typical dweeb. Nothing special. How is he better than me?

Like I said he could have a stable professional career, be a legitimately smart charming guy, and/or managed to work his way into her comfort zone over years of knowing her.

I have known guys who are exactly like this and they usually have this sweet heart they've been working on for years wearing her down over time. Rock even mentioned this before..some Taiwanese men will pester the same girl for years and be her "friend" until she finally gives in and marries him.

Exactly. That was my point. So you don't have to be a hot guy to get a hot girl in Taiwan. Therefore, your claim that girls aren't open to me in Taiwan cause of my looks isn't necessarily true. Right? Or did I misunderstand you? You said it was all about my looks before. But it isn't. So aren't you admitting that you were wrong?

No Winston I didn't say attraction was based solely on looks. I said it helps when you have nothing else going for you and being well dressed/groomed according to the social scene you're in is part of the total package. I'm afraid it all comes back to the fact that you are not someone who has any of the other qualities such as a stable professional career and extremely well calibrated social skills geared for Taiwan which explains part of your lack of success with women. In several posts you've shown a certain amount of condescension towards "fitting in" as you call it even when it's to your own detriment.

If I got involved in social networks, I could easily have a pool of girls that I talked to. Some will flake. But others may not. The girl I met on dateinasia likes me and has been calling me a lot. So it's all possible, and my looks aren't as bad as you made them out to be. Thank God.

No one here said you couldn't find a niche. A lot of people suggested different looks for you etc.. which you treated with contempt. Hey, i'm glad you found a little bit of success. I hope you do better in the future and let us know how it works out.

But you forgot something.

It's not like I'm going out on dates with the girls and then getting rejected cause I have nothing to offer, as you say.

I happen to be a likable guy who is cute to a lot of girls, and sweet/charming too. Is that too hard for you to believe? It's not an extraordinary claim. Why don't you grow up and accept that your opinions do not reflect those of the whole world.

The problem is lack of connections. I don't have a network in Taiwan, I don't work in a company or go to school here. If I did, and girls were rejecting me, that'd be one thing. But usually when I do have a network, many of them do like hanging out with me. I am LIKABLE, whether you believe it or not. If I was worthless shit, like you claim, do you think Rock and Momopi, whom are my friends in person, would bother hanging out with me? Those two guys are people with high standards, and if I was worthless like you insinuate, then they would not bother hanging out with me when we are in the same area.

Did you think of that?

So why don't you conclude the logical thing, that my problem is lack of connections and opportunities? The evidence seems to suggest that. You forget that for some reason cause you have some weird attitude and bias against me.

Last year a girl I met on Couchsurfing in Taiwan liked me. She even wants me to go to Australia to be with her. Momopi has met her and he can tell you that she is sincere.

Not everyone thinks I'm shit like you claim. Why don't you get over that delusion?

I may not be cool in your book, but SOME people do GENUINELY like me, including girls, and find me interesting, cute, charming, etc. I swear it.

[Winston]

Repatriate, here is a typical average looking Taiwanese guy with a hot Taiwanese girl that I found on Facebook. As you can see, you don't have to be a hot guy to get hot girls in Taiwan. This is an example that disproves that. So it is not all about looks like you said. It's about vibes and connection, or "guanxi" (shared connection) as Momopi calls it. It's also possible that this guy was some long term friend of hers who turned into her boyfriend.

See, he looks like a typical dweeb. Nothing special. How is he better than me?

On the other hand, look how hot that girl is.


Thus you don't have to be hot to get hot girls in Taiwan.

IMO, those 2 look equally matched - same aged and similar type, regular looking with skinny bodies, very run of the mill garden variety. Perhaps guy is a bit too scrawny but the girl is not hot or sexy either and too skinny. I don't see how this is an example of a physically mismatched couple. They look like they could be a happy long term pairing to me.

But that dude, if he went to America, would not be able to get any chicks. If those two were in America, they'd be mismatched. Maybe in TW they are matched. But in the US, she would be considered far hotter than him.

Tons of nerds and geeks look like him. He is too skinny too. I could whip him in arm wrestling. Guaranteed. Guys with long skinny arms have a weakness in arm wrestling that I know how to quickly exploit. My strong wrists help too.

[Winston]

A lot of girls will forgive a guy for not being good looking or even ugly. Some hot and not so hot Taiwan girls even try to avoid handsome guys as long term boyfriends cus they don't feel safe with them. For me this thinking seems flawed and I will point it out to them. The most important issue is not how good or bad the guy looks but rather his inner drive - does he naturally tend towards monogamy or is he wanna be player. The good looking monogamous guy is a much better bet than the ugly guy with a wandering eye for the girl who does not want to worry about being cheated on.

Anyway, let me get back to the point - looks. In Taiwan, I believe comfort is the most important first element to building a connection with local girls who you first approach. Its OK to be average looking or even below average as long as your not off the charts. It will just take a bit more time, effort, and luck if you fall at the unfortunate end.

A much bigger hindrance is looking too old. If you appear significantly older than your target, she may unconsciously write you off her potential dating radar from the start. Acceptable age gaps vary a lot depending on the girl. A girl who likes 'older men' could probably dig someone who appeared 6 - 12 years older. Otherwise, its best to appear within 5 years of her age and for the very young (18-20) within 3 years is better. I think the main exceptions are those girls with daddy complexes or the ones looking for rich guys.

Given my view on age vs. looks in Taiwan, I figure a below average looking shortish 25 year old guy with a scrawny build has a better chance at winning over a hot 20 something Taiwanese girl than a guy who looked as good but also as old as George Clooney or Brad Pitt.

I'd be interested in reading opinions from others on this issue - looks vs. age in attracting women - both in Taiwan and elsewhere.

I would mostly agree. But I think you also said that it depends on how old a guy acts too. I act far younger than my age for instance, so young girls sometimes treat me like someone their age. Often people will treat you by the age that you act, not the age that you were. Some older guys do act like younger guys. And that helps.

Like Momopi said, it's about comfort and guanxi or "shared connection". That is the first key. I do notice that Taiwanese girls, when you get to know them, feel like a a "close friend" or "sister" as well, not just a dating potential. I guess that's the beauty of genuine Asian women, that they can date you and give the connection of a close friend or sister at the same time. That wouldn't be the case with white girls usually.

[Winston]

Repatriate, one more thing. The girl I met from dateinasia calls me a lot and says that my voice uplifts her and puts her in a good mood each time.

So obviously, some people do appreciate me and who I am, or the essence of my personality. Thus, not everyone in the world has the jaded cynicism toward me that you do (thank goodness). Agreed?

Good then. I'm feeling a lot more optimistic already. Thank God not everyone thinks as you do or sees me as you do.