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I'd like to ass something to this topic, first off it's not just your face...
there are traits like confidence, masculine vibe and other stuff that women can 'sense' before you even open your mouth.
Also even if you are not the best looking guy you can improve your grooming style and take care of your body and you will already increase your looks. Sure you might not get laid like a rock star (as pua promises) but you can still get success.
Now off to something else: the choices women have...
basically women want to go for their best option (just like men). Let's consider this for a moment-
If we lived in a place where there were 10 different women who chased us on a regular basis and we had to choose. We would probably go for the woman who is best looking, with the best personality and the one who has the most money. It's just logic really...
If we only wanted one night stands- we would go for the women who are the most attractive.
The most attractive BTW is not just looks. I see a lot of 10's who are ice cold and I would not sleep with them while a lot of 8's are much more warm and have a much better vibe- so if I had to choose a sex partner, I would often go for them than for the cold bitchy 10's.
Now here is the 'problem' for guys:
You\We are just a number in a large statistic.
think of it, in the western feminized society women are the prize, guys learn from a young age that they need to chase women and that getting sex\women is what makes you a 'Man'.
now due to the facts above, today women get hit on a lot: on the streets, in bars, in clubs, at school, in their social circles, And even if they choose to ignore all the guys who hit on them-
they just open an internet dating profile and already have another 1000 guys lined up wanting to meet them.
there is also Facebook that although not a dating website: a lot of girls get hit on on facebook especially
if they put some nice pictures.
you can be a good guy but still won't get noticed, you are just a number in a large statistic...
women usually want the guy who is the most attractive who also has status\money\fame...
Every guy can get a woman if he approached tons of women and doesn't mind getting loads of rejections and flakes- but the question is: is it really worth it?
I think not...
Since we are talking about PUA here the only one who was honest (sort of..) about his success rates was Paul Janka. He admits he only has sex with around 10% of the women he gets numbers from (his system is based on approaching loads of women and getting as many numbers as possible)
However, not every girl gives him her number so it could be that he approaches 1000 women- only gets numbers from 500 (within these 500, I bet some of the numbers are fake numbers).
then let's say he has 100 women who are willing to give him a chance- he would still have to go out for at least one date with them- most women won't just come to your house the first time.
within all those dates some will not end up in sex- so he still has to work very hard.
Paul Janka is very good looking, smart, social and confident. He is above the average looking shy guy...
so even someone like Janka who has all the traits gets very little success with PUA compared to the amount of work he as to put in. Sure he doesn't talk to women more than 2 minutes before he gets the number- but he still has to deal with flakes, get rejected and go to a lot of dates who will lead nowhere....
This whole chasing women thing (if you use PUA or not) is a losing game for most men. Even if you manage to score once in a while- is it really worth it?
I don't think so....
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I agree with everything you wrote except for the first part.
The way you are initially perceived depends almost entirely on your looks. ItÂ´s called the halo effect. If youÂ´re good looking people automatically assume that youÂ´re outgoing, fun, intelligent and confident. If youÂ´re ugly people automatically want to stay away from you because they assume youÂ´re boring, no social skills, introverted etc...
If a good looking guy acts creepy around women theyÂ´ll rationalize it by saying heÂ´s bold, confident and upfront. A badboy.
If an ugly guy acts creepy around women heÂ´s considered a tryhard, insecure loser.
Female intuition is mostly a PUA myth or you wouldÂ´ve never heard of Ted Bundy and other serial killers that seduced women and then killed them.
sorry I don't get it lol
you guys say that women love criminals?
that could be true but I don't understand this point. Why would women love criminals?
can you elaborate on this for a bit so I can better understand
IÂ´m saying that women donÂ´t have any special powers. PUAs make it sound like women are masters at figuring men out and reading bodylanguage etc... If women were good at figuring men out they wouldnÂ´t get stuck with psychopaths that kill them after the date is over.
Most women will still stick with a guy that beats her though if heÂ´s good looking.
I meant, what do the criminals have that women find attractive?
women are masochistic?
Usually criminals have lots of testosterone and thus very masculine and aggressive faces. Masculine faces appear ugly in the eyes of guys, but the neanderthal look (huge jaw, high prominent cheekbones, big chin etc...) is attractive in the eyes of women.
oh I see,
because a lot of criminals are not good looking- and they still get women.
How has PUA been working out for you?
@Fox - This is what most people don't understand: you can't win if you are not in the game and your chances of winning increases the more (approaches) you make. Game is all about increasing your odds with women it's not about getting laid like a rock star even though that is how it's promoted. Every little thing helps, better style, better confidence, better conversational skills etc. It's the same with women. In the old days women would go to what was called finishing school. Now they just to to college.
Anybody wants to meet up in South Florida send me a private msg.
yes I understand.
in regards to your question did PUA work for me?
well, I improved my confidence, social skills, style (this doesn't even require PUA - there were books and blogs about these things even before PUA was invented)
I studied some PUA material and even attended two boot camps,
but when I realized that mastering PUA takes a lot of time and work- I just dropped it.
Life is hard enough-
you need to get an education and then build yourself up as far as career and make money.
getting a good job and making money is hard enough. You also have other 'stresses' that life offers besides the business world.
So I decided that I don't want to spend my time and money on chasing women since it's not something I enjoy doing (esp. modern women who for the most part think they are queens).
Better so save money for a car, a house or traveling. Things that will be far more useful...
take into account that the PUA Gurus who are teaching this stuff- they make a living out of this lifestyle
of chasing women and teaching it in boot camps.
Even Brent (who is not a PUA) is going out a lot (sometimes 7 nights a week) for years.
He loves going out to clubs and bars- well that's awesome for him. Not everyone likes to live like this.
I am not getting any cash flow if I do it - I'm only losing money (and time). So since I don't plan on a career in this PUA business - my time and money would be better spent on other things.
I also don't want to sacrifice my integrity and my self worth,
If I have to approach a f**k load, get rejected tons and deal with lots of flakes just to get an occasional lay once in a while- Well, it's just not something I'm willing to do.
p***y is not worth it.
Sex is not that important to me, but the guys who want sex really badly- I tell them:
instead of spending so much time and money going out (and usually end up with nothing)
It's better to just go to a hooker, pay money, get sex and then go back to your business.
But that's just me.
some guys enjoy all of this going out chasing women and getting an occasional lay once in a while.
for them I'd say- if you enjoy it, then go for it
Just another note:
a boot camp with RSD costs $2000
Lovesystems bootcamps are 'only': $ 2,997
charisma arts boot camps: $1,900
and of course it doesn't end there, you need money to fly, accommodation, food and drinks.
The thing is: There is no guaranteeing that after you walk out of this boot camps you will be a ladies man.
I went to two boot camps- they were cheap because they were held up by companies who were just starting out so it didn't cost as much as the above, But still... I didn't turn into a ladies man.
you still have to practice everything you learn a lot and even then:
all you get is an occasional lay.
as someone here mentioned:
the guys who get laid fast without having to work so hard are guys who are rich.
You can tell women to eat shit and all kinds of "cocky and funny" bullshit all you want- you will still get rejected a f**k load.
but if you flash cash around in bars\clubs or show up with a Ferrari- women will all of a sudden turn friendly.
oh this reminds me of something, lol
in my country (and I assume the same for America) you need to know about what's happening in those stupid reality shows, celebrity gossip and other bullshit that is not interesting to us Men.
it's hard to find a girl (even the more 'intelligent ones') that you can have interesting conversations with.
women (generally speaking) in our culture are so shallow it's not even funny anymore.
I'm not going to watch stupid reality shows or celebrity gossip just so I can have conversations with women (since these things are not interesting to me)
and when you finally find a more intelligent girl they usually want someone with money and high status, but even the more intelligent girls are shallow- just less shallow than the club girls.
I think I wrote a thread on PUA. It works to a degree. PUA is more of a numbers games but you can improve your chances by bettering yourself.
So you have to work on yourself. If your out of shape. Get in shape. If you have bad fashion sense . Hire someone to give you a make over. If you have a suck ass job. Work on improving your career or start a business. Find passion that defines you like dancing or traveling. Work on basic social skills set and improve on communication.
If you can approach people randomly and hold a conversation . Than you have OK social skill set.
But to build attraction is different matter. In PUA they believe that game is the great equalize. To some degree it's kind of true but I think most pua over market this and just want to make a buck. With pua you learn not to approach in a creepy manner or needy manner.
But it's numbers game. I'm not really advocating pua but for some guys they may not have the choice to live abroad or move abroad. So they have to work with what they have. If it means they have to approach loads of girls to get lucky..than you just have to do that.
It's not easy but life is not easy.
They are easy to talk to. They use small words. They're fun; they aren't going to launch into some complex topic the girl can't follow, or some heavy boring discussion about "family values" or "life goals", on the second date ... or probably ever.
If she has a drug or booze habit, Mr. Thug is more likely to be cool with that (and source it, too) than Mr. Straight-&-Narrow.
She also doesn't worry that she'll "be judged" by saying the wrong thing to the bad boy. The dopey guy in the club wanting to take her into the bathroom or outside to his Van-of-Shame is a just fun hook-up. No pressure. If she never sees him again, oh well...
If the guy is more serious, has signs of money (or potential) and a decent command of English, then the girl has to decide whether or not to play Miss Respectable, in order to go after a larger long-term pay-off. More pressure.
Young guys have a similar problem. You can talk to a female you have no romantic interest in, all day long, with ease. One you're attracted to? You suddenly don't know how to begin the conversation or you're second-guessing every phrase, afraid to offend her.
Yet, this issue vanishes entirely when talking to ugly girls.
I think the fact that American women (at least here in the Chicagoland area) only want to be approached in venues that revolve around alcohol dependency (bars, clubs, etc.) let's you know that approaching them is a lose-lose situation everytime. I've approached American women at places like bookstores, the mall, clothing stores, libraries, college campuses, restaurants, and everything in between, and yeah 99.99% of them respond to you as if you are out of line for being interested in women outside of a loud club. How disgusting. There was a time when I lived in a college town (away from the midwest), and I could hit on a woman anywhere and I was bound to get a date and/or a real number. That all changed. I guarantee that location plays a big part, and no matter how bad American women may be, you're still bound to get dates if you're not stuck in the Chicagoland area even if you never leave the country. If they're bad where you are, their misandric trash here in Chicago. PUA only works if she likes you, you say? Well, what about in the Chicagoland area where they don't even like men?
"Manginas grovel. Men travel." - me (04/17/2012)
"I used to be one of those men who believed that men are better than women at everything. Then I stood corrected!
Women are better than men at... getting fat." - me (02/24/2013)
Black women suck at life.