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Last edited by Winston on July 26th, 2012, 5:30 am, edited 2 times in total.
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"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World
Well. Few things.
I went to a "very" prestigious Public Ivy Big Ten school, thank Heavens, I had in state tuition of about $7 000 per year. I spent about 1,5 years looking for a job and I found decent job now only due to my extra certifications in IT field. Otherwise, my Bachelors degree is a complete useless crap, like toilet paper. Everyone told I should go for Masters program, but those are not in high demand either. Everyone wants experience.
I would say the real benefit is "connections" or how Americans say "Networking". If your daddy is a lawyer or works in a large firm, chances are he knows that Mr. Wilson from a company next door that need an IT Consultant etc. You need connections to find a job. Otherwise your resume gets junked with thousands of other resumes in the mailbox.
One BIG BIG thing! Education should be cheap or FREE! Those of you that want to get good education for cheap or free check out German exchange website - it offers German University education in English language FREE or cheap EVEN to foreign students!!! How is that American Universities? Go f&ck yourself now!
wow you always put meaningful stuff on here winston can't wait to meet you. like does attract like after all. Anyways, the school system just plain sucks balls big time. ALOT OF college grads are going into the military here in the USA. why ? because they can't find jobs.
that is why it is wise to invest in a business such as online. or do freelance. It is very risky to invest sooo much time and money into college. the paper is not worth any thing when the person does get out of college.
College for most people is a complete waste of time! Most college graduates get their degrees in the "liberal arts" field and those degress are worthless! I have a degree in psychology and it is not worth the paper it is printed on! I honestly thought when I graduated years ago that I would get a job in the psychology field (that is what I was told by my academic advisor). No such luck!
My roommate from college had a degree in human resource management and he graduated on the honor roll and sent out hundreds of resume and wound up working at a warehouse doing manual labor! Then he went on to get his MBA in business management and again graduated on the honor roll and this time he sent out 400 resumes (this was back in 1994) and only got a job through an employment agency doing customer service for an insurance company for $ 12.00 an hour! WTF?
Now the economy is even worse than it was back then! I feel sorry for all these college graduates who have student loans and can't find a decent job to save their life! Welcome to the United f***ed Up States of America!
Just getting a job in of itself can require a large amount of insider knowledge and networking strategies which they don't normally teach you at college.
Getting a good ESL job does often require a BA however. My degree will be in Technical Communication/English. Thank god I also plan to get ESL certification, even if I did land a Tech Comm job here in America after graduation it tends to be incredibly boring, stressful work.
The problem is college education is so academic and not at all related to job skills. Many degrees require calculus for instance which is unlikely to be used by many jobs. Hell, most professors can't even explain how you'd use it in the real world except in the vaguest of terms. This applies to almost all subjects, not just calculus. College is a business. Most professors teach one subject and just a few or one class. After taking a class the students themselves (assuming they got As or Bs) are probably smart enough to teach the class to someone else, especially if it was their full time job. Many teacher assistants teach classes without even having taken it themselves or understanding the material. This is even most likely to happen at big name schools where the famous professors focus on writing and research not teaching. It really is a bunch of bullshit.
That all said you pretty much do need a degree now unless you have special connections or are tough and smart enough to start your own business. Certain colleges also really do help with jobs. Names are probably more important than what you learn once you get a degree. Graduating from Duke will have lot of pull even if people from Boise State got a better education (probably not true but just a random example). Most resumes aren't even considered unless they meet certain requirements such as a Bachelor's Degree. Anyone who is in HR can tell you just how many damn resumes any open job today receives due to the internet. They might get 1500 and select only 5 to interview.
In my view college should either be free or you don't pay for it until you land a job and can afford to pay them back. The worst schools are the private for profit schools they shouldn't even exist. College in America is pretty f***ed up.
In most cases, it's a scam. Some degrees are actually worth money though. And some jobs require some degrees as a qualification.
I regret ever going to college. I regret being back in school for my masters degree at this present time...to the tune of $40k in debt. I have no confidence that it'll actually pan out....although by the time i graduate, it MIGHT actually be worth something depending on the economy and job market.
Fact is though, work experience in some fields are worth more than the degree. Having connections is more important than a degree by far. Nepotism beats them all Look at China. Look at Trump and his daughter.
My best friend and I who persistently pushed through college and finished after 6yrs are a little dissapointed in seeing h.s. friends making +70k at one of our local 3 refineries because they knew someone.
Having a degree will get you the interview..or as its called have a "hunting license" for the job hunt....but passing the interview is all based on experience...etc. I also believe its a educational measurment in the worlds eyes that you have completed and obtained a formal education.
The basic value of a college degree, like many other things in life, is dependent on supply and demand.
Back when it was difficult to pass the national college entrance exam, getting a college education was a big deal in East Asian countries. If you graduated from a national college, it means good job, good career, and good marriage prospects.
Moving forward to the 1990s, in Taiwan the government de-regulated the college system, and many trade schools converted to 4-year colleges. Suddenly there was an over-supply of college-educated workforce. So now you have to go abroad and get a master's degree to be ahead of others. Having a 4-year college degree is now a basic requirement for many jobs, just like the US.
China is about 20 years behind TW, back in 1989 only 2% of HS students went to college, which made the Tienanmen Square protest a far bigger impact on China's leadership and society than western countries, where college education was more prevalent. But today in China there's a large surplus of college educated workforce, so college education no longer guaranteed a good life.
If you want to improve the value of a college degree, you make it harder to obtain and reduce the number of college-educated workforce. If you disagree with the current college education subjects and think the solution is to simply change it, that will not alter the fundamental supply and demand valuation. Lowering the barriers to higher education produces a benefit, but that benefit is not without cost. Like they say freedom is not free and there is no free lunch. If you're not paying upfront, you'd pay for it later.
Speaking as a former 5th grade teacher, I think the US education system is too easy. Parents use schools as a babysitting service, dumping >30 kids per teacher and hope for the best. Duh? IMO secondary schools should teach more practical skills like how to drive a truck, fix a computer, balance your checkbook, negotiate contracts, home-making, cooking, and so on. We also need better apprenticeship program for professional trade and craftsman. In France and Japan, becoming a chef is a lengthy process from school to apprenticeship. In the US we pump out sushi chefs after 6 months from California Sushi Academy. If you ever wonder why the local sushi place prefer to sell maki, it's because the guy lacks the skill to make good nigiri.
Itamae-san (master chef) training for sushi chefs
Traditional sushi-chef training takes about 10 years of instruction under a master. In old days the apprentice enters at high school age, and if proven to have talent, becomes a chef by mid 20â€™s. These days the apprentice usually start after high school (unless family restaurant) and the length of apprenticeship may be shorter, but it still take years to become a good chef.
An apprentice (minarai) starts by doing basic kitchen chores and learn by observation for few years. After a while he is taught how to gut fish and cook sushi rice properly. If he doesnâ€™t exhibit any decent skills, this is where heâ€™d stay, with pay below or equal to the serving staff. This is also where youâ€™d find the restaurant ownerâ€™s friendâ€™s kid and the daughterâ€™s boyfriend/husband with no job skills, washing rice in the back and kept out of the customerâ€™s view.
If the apprentice shows skill, he is allowed to work in the front as shimoita (â€�below the boardâ€�), an assistant to the sushi chef. This stage typically take 3 years, where heâ€™d learn how to use various Sashimi hōchō & other knives properly. Knife skill is very important as it impacts the quality and texture of the nigiri. At this stage the apprentice is not allowed to make sushi for the customer without supervision, though he could make other stuff that require less skill, such as cut rolls and hand rolls. At this stage he is paid at or above the serverâ€™s wages.
If the student chef is good enough, heâ€™s promoted to nakaita (â€�middle boardâ€�) where he is allowed to make sushi for the customers without supervision. At this stage he is paid about twice the serverâ€™s wages or better. The skill level of chefs at this stage can vary widely, from barely acceptable to very good. Foreign sushi chefs who didnâ€™t receive â€œproper trainingâ€� but learned through years of experience may be evaluated at nakaita level by their Japanese peers.
A properly trained nakaita, after years of experiences, may attain the status of Itamae-San. A popular master chef can make 6 figures from salary and tips, and get a cut from the sushi barâ€™s daily bill. At this stage he may also open his own sushi bar and train apprentice.
The thing is that only 30% of the U.S. population even has a 4-year degree. I think the problem is more in the shift of the workforce. We went from relatively high paying industrial/factory jobs where a man could earn a blue-collar living to a high tech/value added skilled job market. Now we're in another transition period where a lot of those jobs have been outsourced and the bulk of what's left are service orientated jobs. The skilled positions are there but they are all highly competitive due to the implosion of the job market. America is not what it used to be.
College degrees from the US is a highly sought after commodity in many non Western countries. A US degree in China, Pakistan, India, Syria, Thailand and even Japan is a guarantee of a good future. Look at how many foreign students study in the US!
It is also a great tool to find high paying ESL jobs overseas. They will not give well paying jobs in Middle Eastern universities to people without a degree like this. So, for me, it has worked.
The best way to see if a degree like this will help you is to look at job markets or any other money making markets and see what the demands is and where the highest pay is. Then you draw your own conclusions whether a degree is worth it for you.
Since this boards is about global living, I think the question should be- is this US degree worth getting if one wants to expatriate? For ESL jobs it affords much better opportunities and higher salaries.
A brain is a terrible thing to wash!
Yes, exactly. Getting my BA in America and later my TEFL certificate there was my ticket out. Without both of those, I would not have been able to get a job teaching in English in Eastern Europe.
I am thankful everyday for the personal and intellectual freedom I have here. Leaving America has been a huge blessing for me and has allowed me to do things which I would have never otherwise been able to do (for example, I just did a bus tour of Transylvania which only cost me the equivalent of 75 USD!!).
I'm still struggling to pay off my college loans, but that was a necessary sacrifice, unfortunately. In any case, I should have my loans paid off within 10 years, and hopefully I'll get EU citizenship by that time as well. I'll never go back to the US.
Exactly! If you want to study plumbing,mechanics and electricity and make big bucks in the US and later go abroad, then more power to you.
You will usually not be able to work as a plumber or electrician in foreign countries because of labor laws there unless you marry or otherwise get some visa to live there and these are available either through marriage or through lengthy immigration procedures. An ESL job is a quick way into most countries outside of the Anglosphere.
Student loans can be quickly paid off by a stint in Saudi/Kuwait or Iraq.
In the US and later Japan/Thailand they dragged out for 15 years, then I went to Saudi and poof, they were gone in 18 months.
A brain is a terrible thing to wash!
I think that depends on which blue collar job. Steel mills? Probably not. But natural resource extraction industry pays very well today. Also, bed bug services is red hot right now!
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