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The Myth of Confidence

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Postby globetrotter » Wed Nov 24, 2010 3:32 pm

Winston wrote:You're not making any valid points here. You are just arguing for the sake of arguing. If you had a real point or case, you'd make it. Thus your lack of a valid point speaks for itself.


As I have posted repeatedly what I am writing has nothing to do with debate, logic, reason, making a point, being intelligent, being smart, making a case.

You lack the wisdom and spiritual growth to grasp, 'Grok', 'Get', understand what I am stating.

Do you even understand what we are arguing here? I said that confidence is not some magic thing that makes or breaks anything. It does not determine whether a girl likes you or not. It is a factor, yes, but overhyped. Do you disagree with that? If so, why?


You are thinking in the low terms of debate.

I am speaking in terms of spirituality and 'Do or Do Not, There is no Try..."

There is nothing to agree with or disagree with, Winston.

It either is, or it is not.

You either have confidence or you don't.

You guys are young and obsessed with getting p***y. You thus think of it as something, a tool, to get a girl to like you or not.

I am talking about something else entiirely larger than that, and you and the others do not 'get it'.

This is not about intellectual understanding.

It is about knowing something.

- If you fought Mike Tyson in the ring, would you feel confident about your chances? If so, based on what reason?


My chances to do what? Live? Yep. Take more than one punch? With 3 months hard training, yes.

You don't 'get it'. You continue to bring up what someone thinks of their level of MASTERY, ABILITY or COMPETENCE.

What you think of your abilities is not CONFIDENCE.

You gotta have a reason to be confident.


No, Winston. YOU THINK that 'you gotta have a reason to be confident.;'.
Because YOU THINK THIS, you are not confident.

You don't get it. Confidence is not something that can be debated about to convince yourself of how to be, or not be, confident.

Being confident for no reason doesn't get results.


My life disproves your thesis.

It wasn't based on nothing. But if you tried to swim across the English channel at your age, would you feel confident? No, and you shouldn't, cause that's not a realistic goal that you can achieve, and it would be dangerous to attempt too.


Your thinking limits you, Winston. You don't get it.

If I trained for one year, I could swim the English Channel. The oldest person to do so was 70:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/engl ... 610018.stm

I have been to 11,500 feet on many mountains. The first time I did so I had no reason to think I could other than I kept putting one foot in front of the other. This was AFTER 2 heart attacks, by the way.

As I have posted, you don't, you cannot get it.

This isn't about an argument.

You believe that you must have a reason to be confident, and your belief defines whether you are confident or not.
I know that I do NOT have to have a reason, and thus I am confident with no reason when I try something new

Should I use the Yoda analogy and say "Do or do not. There is no try." in regards to you swimming across the English channel?


Of course. Your mocking tone indicates you lack the wisdom to comprehend. That is not Yoda, that is 3,000 year old wisdom that you don't recognize.

Either swim the channel or don't. There is no third option of 'try'. If I try to do something I am thinking that I will fail, before I have begun.

Confidence helps and gives you an edge. Yes. But it has its limitations. We all know that. Life is about multiple factors, not just one factor. We all know that. So what are you arguing about?

Do you contest any of this? If so, why? Explain yourself and give your reasons. No bullshit denial this time.


You are looking for a logical debate, a reason, when there is none. I am not debating you. You are seeking a debate. I am pointing to a Truth and saying:

'Look - there it is...'

and you are too immature to see it for what it is.

That's because you don't have the wisdom, experience and spiritual growth to 'get' what I am writing.

You are not ready.

Join a Monastery. Really. The time will do you good. You very much need it.

I am done with this thread.

Wasting time on those who are unenlightened and very very smart gets you no closer.[/quote]
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Postby Winston » Wed Nov 24, 2010 3:55 pm

Question for Globetrotter and Repatriate:

If a beta male acts with the same confidence as an alpha male, will be be treated like an alpha male by women?

NO!

He will be seen as a delusional beta male trying to compensate. We've all seen those short 5ft 3 guys try to act tough and egotistical to overcompensate for their height. An alpha male with height, looks and status, and acts confident will be seen as having REAL confidence cause what he has JUSTIFIES his confidence, as the OP explained.

So how can everything be "all about confidence" like the American pop psychology BS says? And WHY are you guys defending it?
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Postby Winston » Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:01 pm

Globetrotter, I am not looking for a debate, just answers. I just asked you some simple questions and made a few points. I asked you to either agree or disagree with them. That's all. They were simple questions. Why were they so hard for you?

How do I know that you are not delusional?

What you are talking about is inner self-esteem. I have that too.

But that doesn't mean that there are no limits.

When you say "Do or do not. There is no try." are you claiming that EVERYTHING you attempt will succeed if you believe that? LOL

Are you claiming that you will succeed at everything if you believe that? lol

Are you saying that everything is under your control? lol

If you jump out a window and try to fly, would you feel confident that it would work? lol

This is about the truth, not about some secret that you know and I don't.
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Postby BellaRuth » Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:07 pm

I'm going to be the annoying one that joins in late and ignores all the previous posts.

But I think confidence comes from knowing and accepting yourself more. In this busy modern world many people ignore themselves, like two neighbours sharing the third floor who glance at one another occasionally inbetween work and food shopping. If you are not comfortable with yourself, you aren't sure quite what you can and can't do, and where to place your own trust. The foundations are weak.

For me it comes from knowing who you are and accepting who that is. There will always be strengths and weaknesses, but if you have confidence in your strengths, you won't feel ashamed at your weaknesses.
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Postby YoucancallmeAl » Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:34 pm

globetrotter wrote:
YoucancallmeAl wrote:Whether it is 3000 years old or not doesn't make any difference. It's still fantasy. And it's still nonsense. You're assuming that ancient = wise.

But the "ancients" believed the Earth was flat and the sun was a God. Not exactly wise there, were they?
The idea that there "is no try" is just laughable on it's face. Sure, it sounds all poetic and wisdom-y, but it's
just pseudo-wisdom psychobabble gibberish that ultimately means nothing and offers no useful or helpful insight.
Of course there is "try". People try all the time. Sometimes they try and succeed. Sometimes they try and fail.
And those who try and succeed will have more confidence than those who try and fail.


As I posted, both you and Winston are not yet ready to understand.

The phrase 'Do or do not...' is not wise because it is old, it is wise because it is wise.

"but it's just pseudo-wisdom psychobabble gibberish that ultimately means nothing and offers no useful or helpful insight."

No it offers no insight TO YOU, because you are self-blinded.

Your intelligence is not helping you here, but you are self-blinded to this, too.

Stop thinking.

Just be.


What we have here is the same kind of circular logic used by Christian apologists: "I'm all wise and enlightened and you're not, therefore you'll never get it."
What a convenient cop-out.
btw, Your smug superiority is very alienating and does not help to make your case.

The fundamental flaw in your reasoning is in assuming that just because you and other successful people had success when they had confidence and "just did" that everyone could have the same success if they only adopted the same "wise" attitude. What you fail miserably to recognize is that most people don't have the genetic gifts necessary to excel at most things, no matter how much confidence or perseverance they have. For every one success story there's a hundred failure stories you just never hear about it.
Edison didn't change the world because he had confidence and perseverance. He changed the world because he was born with a unique talent and genius that the vast majority of us lack. Did the confidence and perseverance help? Sure they did, but they would have been useless if Edison were not the genius he was.
It's easy for people who have had success in achieving their goals to make the false assumption that anyone could be in their shoes if they just "believed in themselves." Because all they know is their own experiences, they lack the perspective to realize that most people don't have the same genetic gifts that they do.

Your viewpoint is not wisdom, Globetrotter. It is in fact the very lack thereof. It is short-sighted, counter-productive, and in some cases, even dangerous.
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Postby YoucancallmeAl » Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:50 pm

BellaRuth wrote:I'm going to be the annoying one that joins in late and ignores all the previous posts.

But I think confidence comes from knowing and accepting yourself more. In this busy modern world many people ignore themselves, like two neighbours sharing the third floor who glance at one another occasionally inbetween work and food shopping. If you are not comfortable with yourself, you aren't sure quite what you can and can't do, and where to place your own trust. The foundations are weak.

For me it comes from knowing who you are and accepting who that is. There will always be strengths and weaknesses, but if you have confidence in your strengths, you won't feel ashamed at your weaknesses.


That's all fine and good, but my point is about Social Confidence.
You can't have social confidence unless you've had social success first.
We all start out awkward and timid because we have no gauge yet of what is socially accepted and liked/ admired. Our social confidence or lack thereof then results from the experiences and reactions we get from others when we engage with them socially.
Men who are tall, attractive, and wealthy will always have an advantage in this regard because before they've even opened their mouth to talk, others are already attracted to them and want to give them the benefit of the doubt. This has an immediate positive effect on their confidence.
Then, after the fact, people mistakenly assume that their confidence was a factor in their social success. And from there they reach the ridiculous conclusion that short, ugly, poor men could have the same social success if they would only "be more confident".
It is completely irrational and it's a recipe for disaster.
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Postby momopi » Wed Nov 24, 2010 10:14 pm

Ability (and confidence) is nothing without opportunity.
-- Napoleon Bonaparte
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Postby BellaRuth » Wed Nov 24, 2010 10:41 pm

YoucancallmeAl wrote:
That's all fine and good, but my point is about Social Confidence.
You can't have social confidence unless you've had social success first.
We all start out awkward and timid because we have no gauge yet of what is socially accepted and liked/ admired. Our social confidence or lack thereof then results from the experiences and reactions we get from others when we engage with them socially.


I have the most social confidence when I a) act as though I like the other people b) don't care too much, or take it personally, if they aren't great back.

I can get almost anyone to warm to me with these two rules and make it an aim quite a lot of the time to get the grumpiest, rudest person to smile/laugh. We are all social animals and we all want to be liked deep down.

Doesn't mean I genuinely do like everyone, of course. I have pretty low tolerance secretly (can't stand rude people). But if you act as if you like someone, they will thaw out, and you'll feel more confident with each person you get to know.
Last edited by BellaRuth on Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby zzzz » Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:01 am

Is it confidence to reject? Like the the Michael Jordan one on one game, I wouldn't even bother. I am confident that it would be an utter waste of both of our time.
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Postby Winston » Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:16 am

zzzz wrote:Is it confidence to reject? Like the the Michael Jordan one on one game, I wouldn't even bother. I am confident that it would be an utter waste of both of our time.


LOL that's a good way to put it. Spot on!
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Postby globetrotter » Thu Nov 25, 2010 7:59 am

YoucancallmeAl wrote:That's all fine and good, but my point is about Social Confidence.
You can't have social confidence unless you've had social success first.


No, you and Winston have convinced yourselves that this is so.

This is that infinite loop you very intelligent guys get yourselves in, and then you complain it's impossible.

'But I cannot have social success until I have social confidence, and I cannot have social confidence unless I have social success! I am f***ed!'

It sure wasn't so for me when I walked up to the owner of the first club I would work in and told him that the current DJ was not good.

I had never been in a club DJ booth in my life at that moment.

Belief in yourself.

It's a spiritual thing and there is nothing that you can do, say, read, learn, be, do or have that will make it so.

It either is or it is not.

Do or do not. There is no try.
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Postby globetrotter » Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:02 am

Winston wrote:
zzzz wrote:Is it confidence to reject? Like the the Michael Jordan one on one game, I wouldn't even bother. I am confident that it would be an utter waste of both of our time.


LOL that's a good way to put it. Spot on!


You both have so much spiritual growth to learn, it's stunning.

I can list a BOOK of things that I could learn by spending 15 minutes of one-on-one with Kobe, Iverson or Jordan.

It would be a life highlite.

You two would only do something if guaranteed to win or guaranteed to not get an ass-whipping. That's very unwise.
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Postby ladislav » Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:34 am

YoucancallmeAl wrote:
BellaRuth wrote:I'm going to be the annoying one that joins in late and ignores all the previous posts.

But I think confidence comes from knowing and accepting yourself more. In this busy modern world many people ignore themselves, like two neighbours sharing the third floor who glance at one another occasionally inbetween work and food shopping. If you are not comfortable with yourself, you aren't sure quite what you can and can't do, and where to place your own trust. The foundations are weak.

For me it comes from knowing who you are and accepting who that is. There will always be strengths and weaknesses, but if you have confidence in your strengths, you won't feel ashamed at your weaknesses.


That's all fine and good, but my point is about Social Confidence.
You can't have social confidence unless you've had social success first.
We all start out awkward and timid because we have no gauge yet of what is socially accepted and liked/ admired. Our social confidence or lack thereof then results from the experiences and reactions we get from others when we engage with them socially.
Men who are tall, attractive, and wealthy will always have an advantage in this regard because before they've even opened their mouth to talk, others are already attracted to them and want to give them the benefit of the doubt. This has an immediate positive effect on their confidence.
Then, after the fact, people mistakenly assume that their confidence was a factor in their social success. And from there they reach the ridiculous conclusion that short, ugly, poor men could have the same social success if they would only "be more confident".
It is completely irrational and it's a recipe for disaster.


This is brilliant!
A brain is a terrible thing to wash!
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Postby ladislav » Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:24 am

globetrotter wrote:
YoucancallmeAl wrote:That's all fine and good, but my point is about Social Confidence.
You can't have social confidence unless you've had social success first.


No, you and Winston have convinced yourselves that this is so.

This is that infinite loop you very intelligent guys get yourselves in, and then you complain it's impossible.

'But I cannot have social success until I have social confidence, and I cannot have social confidence unless I have social success! I am f***ed!'

It sure wasn't so for me when I walked up to the owner of the first club I would work in and told him that the current DJ was not good.

I had never been in a club DJ booth in my life at that moment.

Belief in yourself.

It's a spiritual thing and there is nothing that you can do, say, read, learn, be, do or have that will make it so.

It either is or it is not.

Do or do not. There is no try.


OK, but you also have to be aware of the environment and your limitations. We do have them. There are market forces at work and social laws and all that. For example, if I am in Saudi Arabia and I confidently walk up to a woman and talk to her, they will arrest me, flog me and deport me. If I am a short Mexican laborer and I am confident that I will get a nice white American girl and just start going to night clubs in Mississippi speaking broken English I will encounter hell most probably. Get killed, too.
My kind of confidence is calculated confidence, based on the realities of the market and the probabilities of encountering something that I need. This is, I think is a healthy approach because the environment is ruled by certain forces and I am a variable in the equation. I go to places where what I need is in abundance with little competition and little prejudice. I try and not stick my nose where I am not particularly welcome or where I have to compete against others for some low quality commodity.
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Postby globetrotter » Thu Nov 25, 2010 3:17 pm

"My kind of confidence is calculated confidence, based on the realities of the market and the probabilities of encountering something that I need."

The inability of posters in this thread to comprehend the difference between confidence and OUTCOME, is stunning.

You all have convinced yourself that confidence is linked to the outcome of a situation.

If you think it, it is so.

Do or do not. There is not 'try'.

If you argue passionately for your limitations, then they are yours and will manifest in your life.
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