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The Insecurity of the Western Male and the Patriarchy

Discuss and talk about any general topic.

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Postby Winston » Sun Jan 02, 2011 10:58 am

The Arab,
I think you'll like this essay of mine if you haven't seen it yet.

Interconnectedness vs. Separateness: Why Americans overinflate themselves and try to "fit in"
http://www.happierabroad.com/ebook/Page15.htm

Bella makes some great points. Feminism could not have been started by feminine women. If you Google "Nick Rockefeller" you will find a lot of articles where someone leaked out that he admitted that American feminism was started by the Rockefellers and the CIA, which has been confirmed by paper trails.

And yes, women are far less violent. They may slap you when mad, but they do not mug people or start wars. And very few are natural born leaders. We can't deny that evil men are responsible for a lot of bad things throughout history. Evil men exist, but that doesn't mean that masculinity is bad.
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Postby BellaRuth » Sun Jan 02, 2011 1:35 pm

Northamericanguy wrote:I'm not so sure about that. I use to think along the lines of what you just said until I started to study the female bosses in the illegal drug trade. The women were absolutely ruthless, (more so then men) and would kill a man/woman just because he/she looked at her the wrong way.

This woman Griselda Blanco put Eablo Escobar on the map, as well as many other men who claimed fame from the drug trade. She was a cold blooded killer and was known for killing men at the drop of a hat.

In other words, you have a shot at appealing to a mans logic and reasoning, but with women you can't really do that.


Yes, there are female murderers, psychopaths, drug barons and criminals. We are more than capable of violence. But I still think it isn't an inherent attraction to us, unless there are other factors going on- necessity, poverty, psychological issues. 'Killing men at the drop of a hat' suggests the latter to me, whether male or female, because you certainly can appeal to a woman's logic and reasoning!

My boyfriend is Colombian and I've heard quite a few stories of women involved in the drug trade, killing etc. The vast majority involved seem to be men, but when women are involved it seems to be out of fear and the need for protection (if they are not with the guerilla in some areas, they won't last long, and once they get involved they can't get out unless they put their loved ones in danger, despite FARC's fluffy liberal image in Europe). There might be a few women who do it for pure violence (who knows?) but I really doubt that's the main pull.
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Postby ijohn » Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:04 am

This is an interesting dicussion.

We do have to be careful when glamorizing the old style patriarchy. On the North American Continent hundreds if not thousands of native tribes were wiped out. This is also the patriarchy - all those patriarchs and the women who supported them and egged them on. It took the extraordinary effort of some very brave people - including women - to recognize that this was not something glorious but a sordid chapter in history, to rewrite the history books to include the history of the native tribes and to at least try to mitigate some of the cultural tendencies that led to it.

The Arab world has had its share of violent, genocidal conquests and the slave trade too. For example arabs were slave traders in Africa - the island of the Zanzibar was an arab slave trading post. You can travel all the Arab world and you will not find a single book that documents this let alone bemoans it. This is also the old style patriarchy. What we did was right, the other was wrong and there is nothing more to think about.

These things get complicated. Often underneath the patriarchy lies a strong matriarchy. If you go to the Phillipines you feel that warm welcome, what is that? That is the feminine energy of giving love and relating. It is the women with their feminine energy who are potent in these cultures.

You can still find Matriarchal tribes in remote regions of India and other parts of Asia. They do tend to be more peacefull generally, the women are in charge, older women marry younger men, they are generally poor as the emphasis is on feeling and relating over efficiency and gain.

Male, female and masculine/feminine are certainly associated but may not be identical.

When we think of masculine what words can we come up with
doing, creating, destroying, thinking, discriminating, gaining, conquering
When we think of feminine what words can we come up with
being, relating, giving love, sharing, lecturing, smothering, suffocating.

The problem in the west is not that the masculine has been crushed, it is the opposite. For one, the negative sides of the masculine and feminine dominate. And also, the good side of the feminine has been completely crushed. Everyone, men and women included, are on the masculine growth path of acquisition and conquest. When there is no relating, giving love and sharing where is the home and community going to come from that we all so sorely need to feel whole and complete?

But this is only true for the more 'mainstream' waspy-type culture. You will find sub cultures and groups in the west that have not gone down this road. The future belongs to those who are there to see it; since these sub cultures and groups are the ones who typically have children, their culture and values will be the ones that remain.
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Postby Guts » Tue Jan 04, 2011 6:30 am

Winston wrote:And yes, women are far less violent. They may slap you when mad, but they do not mug people or start wars. And very few are natural born leaders. We can't deny that evil men are responsible for a lot of bad things throughout history. Evil men exist, but that doesn't mean that masculinity is bad.



I stongly disagree with this statement. Women are every bit as violent as men; it is just taboo to talk about women in anything but the most favorable terms in the shitty USA. The media certainly isn't goin to shed light on female violence and the legal system treats women with kid gloves. Additionlly, violent tendencies in women often manifests itself in manipulating men to carry out their wrath on their intended victim for them without actually taking any direct action themselves. In summation, women *appear* soft, kind and moral but in reality they are cold, calculating, narcissistic, and outright vicious when they feel it's in their interests to do so.
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Postby Mr S » Tue Jan 04, 2011 6:41 am

A prime example of why the Western male is dying...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp ... 3#40887103
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." Marcus Aurelius, Roman Emperor and stoic philosopher, 121-180 A.D.
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Postby Jackal » Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:20 pm

onezero4u wrote:nice observations. makes me wonder why were at war with 3 muslim countries and chomping at the bit for iran now too.

The US goes to war with Muslim countries because we want their oil and because it's good for American companies who build weapons.

"What is most crucial about Nitzan and Bichler's analysis is that one of the most important ways that the arms and oil industries were able to earn a disproportionate (as they describe it, "differential") level of profits was through the regular eruption of Middle Eastern energy conflicts, which ensured both relative high oil prices and arms purchases."

"New York Times columnist Thomas Friedman puts it more colourfully: "The hidden hand of the market will never work without the hidden fist. McDonald's cannot flourish without McDonnell Douglas - and the hidden fist that keeps the world safe for Silicon Valley's technologies to flourish is called the US Army, Air Force, Navy, and Marine Corps." "

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/op ... 33801.html
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Postby MrPeabody » Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:10 pm

These wars don't help the American people, they help the international banksters and corporations that are looting the country and the world. The key to stopping the decline of America is to stop free trade. The book "Free Trade Doesn't Work" by Ian Fletcher demolishes every possible argument for free trade, and shows how its going to bankrupt the country. Americans do no benefit an iota from these imperialistic wars.
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Postby Mr S » Wed Jan 05, 2011 6:51 am

MrPeabody wrote:These wars don't help the American people, they help the international banksters and corporations that are looting the country and the world. The key to stopping the decline of America is to stop free trade. The book "Free Trade Doesn't Work" by Ian Fletcher demolishes every possible argument for free trade, and shows how its going to bankrupt the country. Americans do no benefit an iota from these imperialistic wars.


I just added that book to my 'Wish' list on Amazon. I totally agree that the free market is a fraud and only lowering our living standards so the globalists can more easily control out future generations. It's going to take a major revolution to change anything though, not sure if that's gonna happen in my life time...
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." Marcus Aurelius, Roman Emperor and stoic philosopher, 121-180 A.D.
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Postby Winston » Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:32 pm

http://www.city-data.com/forum/world/11 ... macho.html

Do American Men Have More Macho Insecurity Complexes Than European Men?

Many American men have macho insecurity complexes. Buzz cuts, shaved heads, t-shirts with sleeves ripped off, struts, postures, afraid to express themselves in ways that may not be considered macho. Then there are the accessories such as horsepower cars, motorcycles, boots, leather, moustaches, head scarves, etc.
I lived in Germany for 18 years and traveled within Europe. Although some German men seem to have macho insecurities I saw much less of the macho types as in America. The European men are more confident and natural, they let their hair grow longer, don't strut when walking, and dress casually.
American men try so hard to be machos that they represent bizarre caricatures of themselves.

Read more: http://www.city-data.com/forum/world/11 ... z1ASicna1t
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Postby mattyman » Sat Jan 08, 2011 6:59 pm

What a great post. It's great to see the opinion of western society from an arab's point of view. I think a lot of very valid points are made. I certainly agree with the point that men are enablers, long term thinkers and rational by nature and women are more emotional; by that I mean they are, in the tradtional way better suited to being i.e. warm, loving, tender, sweet, caring. It's not surprising in the least that societies that are somewhat patriarchal have more feminine women on average. I heard from my Italian friend (who's travelled a lot) that a lot of women in non-feminized societies are in fact quite happy in traditional female roles. How come then, if these women are 'liberated' that they are such bloody miserable, anti-social, spoilt little brats? However, I do not believe that women should be subserviant to men as that would be too far.

It's no wonder that so many modern guys are so insecure and feel that they have to prove something.
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Postby mattyman » Sat Jan 08, 2011 7:32 pm

Sorry about that, accidently hit the submit button! A lot of guys feel that they have to prove something precisely because they are being made to doubt their own masculinity. I believe that this is one of the reasons leading to overcompensating behaviours. One thing that I've noticed myself is that a lot of guys are becoming increasingly obsessed with beauty, almost to the extent that women do. I believe that this is partially about trying to prove something and partially from being so insecure in oneself that they feel they have to be a certain way.

Can I also add that, even in France, I noticed fewer guys with gelled hair, tattoes and protein-shake-enhanced muscles. There was generally far less of that macho shit. Among foreign guys that I have met, as with foreign women; guys from outside the english-speaking world do seem noticeably more relaxed and cool, as opposed to cocky and macho.
What's perverse though, is that there is so much advice geared towards guys telling them to be cocky, macho and all the rest of it. Some shallow dick that I went to college even said that I had to be like that to be attractive. The nicest girls that I have met however really don't find that behaviour very attractive or masculine at all.

Anyway, I don't think that the way things are in the west are sustainable. The only matriarchal societies are mostly small-scale tribal or village-scale ones. Throughout most of history, most major civilisations have been patriarchies. I think that, if you de-masculinise your men and get them to doubt their own masculinity, it's like throwing away the rationality, power and long-term thinking capabilities that are essential for civilisation and family units (I'm not saying there aren't women without these traits). Equally, if women are de-feminized, i.e. rendered incapable of being loving, kind and caring etc. how can stable family units be widespread within a civilisation? It's not sustainable. I hope things change.

All in all, that post was a great read, you'd never, EVER discover something like that in other forums.
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THE ARAB....POST ON AMERICAN MALE

Postby liz smith » Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:23 am

Dear Arab Man
I am anAmerican woman, living in Kuwait. I have read your 'damning' observations of American society and your views of American women and men. It made me laugh at its wild claims of the superior Arab male manner of treating women. There are those who post replies to your article who have no idea of the reality of life in the Gulf for the women, the slaves employed here and the infantile atittudes of the 'male patriarchy' society in Kuwait.
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Arab male view of American society.

Postby bronsonlake » Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:49 am

The Arabs may have their women under control but they have nothing else to teach us. All American and western society need to do is go back to the way we were 70 years ago and our society would be healthy again. The confidence that the Arab says his men have is more like the strutting around American Blacks do, which has more to do with insecurity and acting up. The Arabs have cruelty to animals honed down to a fine art. The concept of protecting animals from cruelty is as foreign to them as the man on the moon. Their respect for women is nonexistent and they think nothing of going with a prostitute. This is clearly evident when you hear of the constant stories of men from Saudi Arabia abusing the prostitutes in London and other cities of Europe. Double standards seem to be the norm throughout their culture. At least we try to expose the double standards in our society. I could go on about the shortcomings of Arab society but will not belabor the point. I will just finish with this statement. We in the west have only to return to our recent past to restore our society, the Arabs are still in the remote past and that is all he has.
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Re: Arab male view of American society.

Postby globetrotter » Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:45 am

bronsonlake wrote:The Arabs may have their women under control but they have nothing else to teach us. All American and western society need to do is go back to the way we were 70 years ago and our society would be healthy again. The confidence that the Arab says his men have is more like the strutting around American Blacks do, which has more to do with insecurity and acting up. The Arabs have cruelty to animals honed down to a fine art. The concept of protecting animals from cruelty is as foreign to them as the man on the moon. Their respect for women is nonexistent and they think nothing of going with a prostitute. This is clearly evident when you hear of the constant stories of men from Saudi Arabia abusing the prostitutes in London and other cities of Europe. Double standards seem to be the norm throughout their culture. At least we try to expose the double standards in our society. I could go on about the shortcomings of Arab society but will not belabor the point. I will just finish with this statement. We in the west have only to return to our recent past to restore our society, the Arabs are still in the remote past and that is all he has.


What is with the bullshit single-poster trolls who have appeared here in the past week?

You guys want to contradict the editorial slant of this forum, start your own...
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The Arab's Excellent Observation

Postby Tom_Bombadil » Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:13 pm

The Arab has made an excellent observation. Fortunately, men in the US and throughout Western Civilization are beginning to wake up. One only need to look at the conversations taking place on sites like:
http://www.henrymakow.com (where I was made aware of this board and this particular thread)
http://avoiceformen.com
http://angryharry.com
http://shrink4men.com
http://falserapesociety.blogspot.com
http://counterfem.blogspot.com/
http://fightingfeminism.blogspot.com/
http://fredoneverything.net/
http://www.singularity2050.com/2010/01/the-misandry-bubble.html
http://www.the-spearhead.com/
http://malestudies.org

and dozens of other sites that link to these above to understand that not only are The Arab's observations accurate, but also that more and more Western men are becoming aware of the cultural trance under which they have lived for most of their lives. Whether our emasculation by Gender Feminists has occurred by our lack of will and foresight, or whether it has been intentionally fostered by the powerful few, is irrelevant. Changes in the global economy combined with the humiliation of boys and men in western society through unfair and unjust legislation, media bias and propaganda, and social conditioning will likely result in radical reforms here in the US and throughout the Anglosphere in near future. It is already well underway in Britain with the acceptance of Sharia Law/Court Systems http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=sharia+law+in+britain. The more that men in Western societies are marginalized, the more likely such humiliation will lead to their embracing cultural change that resembles the systems found in the Middle East. We have a "clash of civilizations" precisely because at many levels our individual cultures possess materials, qualities, and attributes that the other needs. Hopefully, we can achieve some sort of social balance and social justice without the radical elements destroying both of our cultures. Thanks, Arab, for your insight.
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