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The USA is an Empire in Decline...

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Re: The USA is an Empire in Decline...

Postby globetrotter » Tue Jan 04, 2011 12:02 am

Rock wrote:But English teacher wages will not rise commensurately (may even stay flat) if past experience in Japan and Taiwan is any indication. I wouldn't be surprised if local perception of laowai English teachers goes from being high earning figures of respect to poor no future white trash nobodys within a few years. Enjoy your fleeting prestige while it lasts.


I already see these guys. Poor social skills, hygiene and no sartorial sense at all.

I am not in that group as I am older, have suits, don't drink, and I am very clear that I am here to teach long term, settle down; I see China as The Future.

I agree that eventually laowai weijo will be considered as the same as in Japan or Taiwan or Thailand, but there are always exceptions to the rule.

The Chinese are also, naturally, patient.

They know that in 5 years or so that they will be a developed country and that there will be many well-off men out there to date and marry and such. So they can wait.

Even with incomes of 1/4th mine - using my current local salary - and 1/20th of USA salary, they still aren't falling over themselves to f**k you.

Also, I am 50, I look it, and I am not in BSG. Life is different in the Big City if one is young.

Was watching CCTV last night and they had images of folks signing work contracts at job fairs.

1,200 CNY per month. Doesn't include gaunxi connection bonuses, etc. Double that for the 'extras'.
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Postby Repatriate » Tue Jan 04, 2011 12:13 am

There is a trend of ethnic Chinese professionals from western countries making a sojourn back to China as well. I actually see there being _less_ white faces in MNC's in countries like China and probably India in the future. It's similar to how there was an immediate reversal in western expat hiring after the early 90's or so in Hong Kong. I recall reading an article about Brits going to China to find employment and thinking about how preposterous it was.
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Postby The_Adventurer » Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:01 pm

Kunold wrote:
globetrotter wrote:In China in small cities, the women are NOT falling over themselves to marry a foreigner and move out, even though you may earn 20X what they earn. The Chinese know that if they wait 5 to 10 years, that they will be a developed country. They don't need to marry a laowai - there will be plenty of well-off men in China in a few years.



NOOOOOOOOOO! :cry:


This does not by any means imply you can't find love and romance in China. You will note he said they aren't interested to "...marry a foreigner and move out..." Every girl I talk to seems interested to know that I love China and want to stay in China. You have no idea how many times I heard "I hope you stay China forever!"

If you are serious and want to build a life and future here, you will find someone who will be happy to build it with you. I, like Globetrotter, see China as the future, as does my Chinese partner who I work with here. There is so much happening and so much opportunity it is insane.
“b***y is so strong that there are dudes willing to blow themselves up for the highly unlikely possibility of b***y in another dimension." -- Joe Rogan
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Postby Rock » Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:48 pm

Terrence wrote:
Kunold wrote:
globetrotter wrote:In China in small cities, the women are NOT falling over themselves to marry a foreigner and move out, even though you may earn 20X what they earn. The Chinese know that if they wait 5 to 10 years, that they will be a developed country. They don't need to marry a laowai - there will be plenty of well-off men in China in a few years.



NOOOOOOOOOO! :cry:


This does not by any means imply you can't find love and romance in China. You will note he said they aren't interested to "...marry a foreigner and move out..." Every girl I talk to seems interested to know that I love China and want to stay in China. You have no idea how many times I heard "I hope you stay China forever!"

If you are serious and want to build a life and future here, you will find someone who will be happy to build it with you. I, like Globetrotter, see China as the future, as does my Chinese partner who I work with here. There is so much happening and so much opportunity it is insane.


Its been awhile since I tested the waters. But the sense I got before was that as time passed and China developed, it got easier for foreigners to find romance and LT relationships w/girls in/from China. Moreover, success rates for LT relationships between foreigners and Chinese also seems to have improved. These are only my gut feeling from observations and experiences in China over time, not based on any hard data. Now if this trend does exist, has it or will it at some stage reverse? Hard to say for certain.

I believe in Taiwan, its become totally acceptable to date foreigners and the majority of young people are open to it if conditions are right. Many may have cultural and communication concerns but those can be easily overcome by the foreigner who adapts to local customs. That really isn't too difficult these days, at least when dealing with typical urban adults.

But Taiwan case is in many ways very different than China's

Taiwan is very small with questionable status, China is a super power => Taiwanese have weaker national identity, Chinese have a very strong one

Taiwan grew-up in close cooperation with US, China took a radically separate path to prosperity => Taiwanese have a strong understanding, awareness, and even appreciation of the US and the west, China has a historical based resentment of foreign powers and believes itself to superior

Taiwan has a relatively even distribution of wealth and education, in China there is still a large underclass

Taiwan is a small but developed, mature, and generally prosperous economy, China is a rapidly growing emerging market and largest country on the planet

China's HOT, Taiwan's NOT
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Re: The USA is an Empire in Decline...

Postby ladislav » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:23 pm

But English teacher wages will not rise commensurately (may even stay flat) if past experience in Japan and Taiwan is any indication. I wouldn't be surprised if local perception of laowai English teachers goes from being high earning figures of respect to poor no future white trash nobodys within a few years. Enjoy your fleeting prestige while it lasts

This is what happened in Thailand. Except that there you have a sex tourist/ perv label attached to you in addition to that and you get about as much respect as a Mexican cleaner in Montgomery AL. If not less. The image of a a rich foreigner drifted into the distant past as the country got richer and richer.
Choose your lands wisely.
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Re: The USA is an Empire in Decline...

Postby Repatriate » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:45 pm

ladislav wrote:
But English teacher wages will not rise commensurately (may even stay flat) if past experience in Japan and Taiwan is any indication. I wouldn't be surprised if local perception of laowai English teachers goes from being high earning figures of respect to poor no future white trash nobodys within a few years. Enjoy your fleeting prestige while it lasts

This is what happened in Thailand. Except that there you have a sex tourist/ perv label attached to you in addition to that and you get about as much respect as a Mexican cleaner in Montgomery AL. If not less. The image of a a rich foreigner drifted into the distant past as the country got richer and richer.
Choose your lands wisely.


It's not quite that bad. I have a few friends here that teach english and they are treated well enough or at least i've never heard them complain about it. Thai wages are still very low for most Thais so there aren't that many looking down their nose at farang ajarns. Your average Thai college grad who works in a large corporate office job only makes anywhere from 9,000-15,000 baht ($300-500 U.S. a month) starting salary. Anything above that comes from glacially slow promotions up the chain while you have to kiss a lot of Thai boss ass. Some skilled middle managers (who have degrees in engineering) here barely crack 40,000b a month which is fairly pathetic considering they could be getting about 4 times that overseas with a slightly higher living cost to Bangkok. The middle class is still being weighed down here by the economic realities.

The rich are mostly land owner types, royalty, or industrialists. Money has been in their family for generations..and they have definitely gotten richer but that's mostly through corruption and nepotism.
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Postby Repatriate » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:52 pm

Rock wrote:
Taiwan is a small but developed, mature, and generally prosperous economy, China is a rapidly growing emerging market and largest country on the planet

China's HOT, Taiwan's NOT

In many ways Taiwan is comparable to Singapore. They are both small nations with watered down ethnic/national identities but a Chinese majority population. I would consider both countries as defacto cultural colonies of the U.S. Of course they have both benefited greatly from this relationship economically, militarily, and politically. So calling them a "colony" is a big of a misnomer since there's not really any exploitation going on. However culturally they are definitely far more westernized and you are right on the money about the weak national identity in Taiwan. Matter of fact if you read about Taiwan's "lost generation" in the 1960's you'd see that this cultural angst about where they fit in the world has been going on for quite some time.
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Postby globetrotter » Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:55 am

Terrence wrote:If you are serious and want to build a life and future here, you will find someone who will be happy to build it with you. I, like Globetrotter, see China as the future, as does my Chinese partner who I work with here. There is so much happening and so much opportunity it is insane.


As do I.

It's nearly inconceivable - when was the last time that you saw within 9 months the number of vehicles in your town double? Saw traffic go from light to traffic jams?

IN 9 MONTHS?

Now they are paving roads, not with concrete, but with asphalt. Modern, quiet, rubberized asphalt.

But English teacher wages will not rise commensurately (may even stay flat) if past experience in Japan and Taiwan is any indication.


If you say are you are serious, expect your salary to double due to perqs, bonuses, quanxi, connections and off the book red envelopes.

If you only look at the money then you will only get the money. The rest of the work relationship will be denied you.

Chinese make some solid stuff - it is just that Americans hammer on price, so they give you cheap crap because that is what you want and what you buy.
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