Discuss and talk about any general topic.
I'm trying to figure out what country to move to and I have decided to do this as scientifically as possible. I realize that there are certain intangible factors that play a role in ones success overseas. However, I think that ones success can be fairily well predicted by ones dating market value. I think the advantage of moving overseas is that when you move to another country your market value changes. For this reason, I am trying to create a list of all the factors that affect how ones market value changes when they move overseas. If you can think of any factors that I have left out, please add to the list.
1. The Average Height of the Men in the Country
It is a well established fact that women perfer men who are tall. Dating statistics reveal that tall men are MUCH more successful than short men. From statistics I've seen, men who are 3 inches shorter than the average height in a given country (that would be 5 ft 7 in in the US) have a really difficult time with dating. It seems as if that is the cutoff point. If you are 3 inches shorter than average, that is when things get really difficult. Men who are most successful are those who are about 6 inches taller than the average height in a given country have the largest advantage. More than 6 inches taller and you start to appear freakish. 6 ft 4 in seems to be ideal in the US.
Now there are some countries where the average height is higher than it is in the US. For example, I have read that men in their twenties in the Netherlands and Scandinavia (Denmark, Norway, Sweden) have an average height of over 6 feet! This means that even if you are 5 ft 9 in, you would be too short to be considered dating material in these countries. However, in a country such as the Phillipines, where the average height of adult men is 5 ft 4.5 in, that same 5 ft 9 in guy, who would be considered undateable in Scandinavia, would be close to the ideal height and would have a major height ADVANTAGE. So for most guys, the shorter the average height in a country, the larger the dating advantage. However, if one is already freakishly tall, say a guy who is 7 ft tall, would do better in Scandinavia or the Netherlands as he wouldn't look as freakish.
In summary, you want to be in a country where you are as close to 6 inches above the average height as possible and if at all possible you MUST AVOID any country where you are 3 or more inches shorter than the average height.
2. The Average Income of the Men in the Country
It is also a well established fact that women perfer rich men and don't like poor men. Height and Income are probably the two biggest factors women consider and I would guess that these two factors are so ingrained in the female mind that they overwhelm all the other factors combined. A short poor guy probably couldn't get a woman no matter what, and a tall rich guy could have all sorts of problems and could still pull some women. If you move to a very poor country and have some way of earning an income in a rich country by providing a good or service to citizens in that rich country, then you could potentially be much richer than the local men. For example, lets say you decide to become a freelance writer. You earn a low but adequate income of $25,000 per year from writing. Since you can publish what you write from anywhere in the world using the internet, you can live anywhere that has internet access. $25,000 per year is a low income in the US. But in some very poor countries it is a high income. So if you move to a very poor country you might appear to be a very rich man to the local women. The higher the percentile of your income (that is the percentage of men with lower incomes in that country), the easier it will be to get women.
In summary, you want to be in a country that MAXIMIZES the PERCENTILE of your income in that country.
3. The Percentage of Women who are Single Mothers
Obviously, most of us don't want to date, or worse marry, single mothers. Therefore, the higher the percentage of single mothers, the worse the country is. If half the single women in a given country are single mothers it is much more difficult to get an acceptable woman who doesn't want you to raise her little brats.
In summary, AVOID countries with high illegitmacy rates.
4. The Percentage of Women who are FAT
Obviously, the more fat women there are the harder it is to get one of the acceptable normal weight ones.
5. The ratio of Males / Females
The lower the male female ratio, the better. Countries like Armenia have only 88 men per 100 women in adulthood.
See this list from Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... _sex_ratio
What I'm thinking of doing, is putting together a table that lists all of the countries by these 5 statistics. I think it would be a useful reference for people who are planning to move overseas.
Can anyone think of other useful statistics that I should include in this table?
Last edited by i_want_a_hot_white_chick on Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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I applaud your effort and will give this some thought. But I think there are also qualitative factors which are hard to quantify.
As for height, it is important, not to be too short. But in the US, I think 6'1" to 6'3" is ideal. Almost all women in America will be happy with a man of that stature. If you are 6'4 or 6'5", your gonna appear huge to shorter women. Remember, the States also has a lot of Mexicans and other Latinos who tend to be shorter (both men and women). And white women just 1SD below the mean are already down to 5'3" to 5'4". And from the perspective of the guy, he might not be attracted to women who are too much shorter than himself (say more than 6 inches). I know I fall into that camp. At 5'7", a guy would be a decent height in some SE Asian countries and quite acceptable in much of Latin America.
One more thing about height. If you are in the freakish range (esp. at the short end), it turns into a significant impediment. If you are close to average, you have a slight disadvantage over someone who is 2-4 inches above it. But being built well and having a handsome face is much more important at this level. Thus, a guy who is 5'10", in good shape, and built well or has an attractive face will definitely be more interesting to most girls than a 6'1" guy who has a very skinny or fat build, slouches, and/or has just an average face. I would go even further. I bet a 5'10" guy with a hot face and decent build is going to get more positive female attention than the 6'2" guy with a similar build but just average face.
One more factor which may cloud the issue. Taller guys do significantly better in work and business. Every extra inch of height up to 6'4" or so is worth, on average, several hundred to thousands of dollars in annual income. Taller guys are just easier for people to accept as leaders given the strength their image projects. Since you mentioned relative income as a factor, this might play into the equation too. Perhaps the taller guy would be perceived as being richer and/or more successful in his career by random women? Just a thought.
Thanks for your reply. I agree that qualitative factors are important. However, you can't really put them in as numbers on a chart. Those are things a person just has to make their own personal guesses about. As for 6'1" to 6'3" being ideal, my reason for thinking it is a little higher is because of statistical evidence I found on this site:
http://tierneylab.blogs.nytimes.com/200 ... love-thee/
On that site, it says "if [a] 6-foot-0 man wanted to do as well as a 6-foot-4 man, heâ€™d need to make $43,000 more."
So you see, even when you do a statistical analysis where you hold a man's income constant, each additional inch increases desirability until that guy reaches 6 ft 4 in. That appears to be where desirability peaks, holding all other factors constant. That is 6 in above the US average. So lacking evidence to the contrary I just assumed that 6 in above the average would probably be ideal in other countries as well.
Hmm, skimmed the article and I'm not so sure I buy the conclusions of this study. For example:
For women in the online study, shorter is better. A 5-foot-6 women would need to make $59,000 more than a 5-foot-0 or 5-foot-2 woman to do as well. Sheâ€™d need to make $50,000 more than a 5-foot-4 woman.
Personally, I would much prefer the 5' 6" woman to the 5' 4" woman and I wouldn't even consider the 5' 2" woman. A 5' 0" woman seems freakish to me. And I'm just regular height. Do you really think 6' 4" guys (the most desirable ones according to this study) would prefer a 5' 0" over a 5' 6" girl? A lot of guys are into model types and these tend to be 5' 7" or more. Many of my friends like taller girls too. I just don't think the 5' 2" girl has a higher sexual market value than a 5' 6" girl, all else equal, in the States. I would expect it to be the other way around. Even here in Asia whee the averages are shorter, taller women (160-165 cm or above) are generally much more desirable. Many jobs where physical attractiveness is important in countries like China will have minimum height requirements for women (usually 160-165 cm, sometimes even 170 cm).
So if they are so wrong with the women, I wouldn't be surprised if they were wrong with the guys too. Really, 6'1" or 6'2" is gonna be great with most women in the States. The only places where it might be considered too short would be Holland or the Dinaric Alps (sp) area.
BTW, I saw another US study, from a few years ago which queried a large group of women about what height ranges they would consider for a mate. Now this was different from most desirable. It was an exercise in what each woman's cutt-off points were. Turns out that the male height which was acceptable to the highest percentage of the women (about 98%) was 6'1". Taller guys were ruled out by some of the shorter women. Even guys just 6" were acceptable to about 95-96% of the women.
Yes, I would agree that women who are somewhat taller would probably be more desirable all else equal. I think that the reason that the study came to those conclusions was because it was looking at response rate. Although guys might prefer taller women to shorter women they are more comfortable approaching shorter women. The study said the guys cast a wide net and the women got a thumbs up from half the men. I think that a very tall guy would usually be at least somewhat attracted to an otherwise attractive short woman and would therefore give her the thumbs up. However, a very short guy might not feel comfortable with a tall women. So the shorter men probably refused taller women even though they were attracted to them. I'm short (5 ft 7 in) and I do find tall women attractive. But I probably wouldn't date one because I know the relationship wouldn't work out. I'd probably only consider the women who were 5 ft 4 in or less even though my attraction to women is mostly independent of height. I love blondes chicks regardless of whether they are 5 ft tall or 6 ft tall. But I probably wouldn't date one over 5 ft 4 in because I wouldn't feel comfortable with her. So the lower response of women over 5 ft 4 in makes sense just because guys might reject women they feel certain will reject them. When you see that there is only a $9,000 differential between the 5 ft 4 and the 5 ft 2 or 5 ft 0 this further supports the conclusion. Below 5 ft 4 in, shorter doesn't help increase the response much. That is probably because all but the shortest males are ok with 5 ft 4 in.
You can find illegitmacy rates here.
Following the Old Testament, not evil modern culture
Averages do not necessarily reflect local conditions. Within a country there may be wide variations from area to area (and ethnic group to ethnic group), desirability is often measured by men to the right side of the bell curve.
1) Not the income of men only but the entire GDP needs to be considered. If it is very low, men emigrate. And women cannot make enough money. They need a guy.
2) Low levels of xenophobia, racism and nationalism and religious intolerance ( towards someone like you and a mixed couple) . The more racially mixed, the better. Do not confuse a racially mixed country with a "multicultural"- read: apartheid country like what most Anglo countries are. I found this to be the biggest obstacle for me. It may also be homogenous provided they would mingle with your kind. No use going to a country where people are prejudiced against you and do not think that by being a good guy you can overcome it. You may overcome it with people you know but not with millions of strangers around you.
Example: an Israeli should not consider going Egypt to look for a wife even though he is tall, rich and a nice guy and Egyptians are poor. The prejudice will make his life impossible.
A brain is a terrible thing to wash!
insightful as always just like a tall, rich black guy cannot go to laos or russia and expect to score anytime he wants as the society are not that open.
So far, I have compiled this list of Factors to Consider:
1. Average Height of Men
2. Per Capita GDP
3. Adjusted Per Capita GDP (adjusted for factors such as outright ownership of land)
4. Percent of single women who are mothers.
5. Percent of women who are obese
6. Male / Female Ratio
7. Do most of the women want player type men or provider type men?
-----8 and 9 are my interpretations of suggestions from Ladislav:
8. Are the women financially dependent on the Men?
9. Do the people in that country dislike your race or nationality? Like a Jew should not go to Egypt.
-----10 to 12 are my interpretations of suggestions from ExpandMindset:
10. How educated are the women?
11. What is the predominant religion?
12. Are the people very religious or is the society secular?
-----13 to 17 are my interpretations of suggestions from Phoenix Sosa:
13. Is Pro Legal?
14. Is it easy to get a visa?
15. How long does it take to get residency?
16. Percent of Population with HIV
17. Cost of Living
-----And here are a few more I came up with:
18. Average looks of men in the country. If the men are good looking, the competition is greater.
19. Average looks of women in the country.
20. If the country is multiracial, what race is in highest demand? If the women you want are scarce and in high ------demand, then the country might not be a good choice.
21. Percent White, Black, Asian, Mestizo. Obviously, you want to go to a country where the women are the type you ------like.
22. How easy is it to learn the language?
23. Is it legal to work remotely, that is for a US business while living there? What kinds of permits are needed?
24. What tax rate will you have?
25. What is the corruption level?
26. What is the crime rate?
27. What kind of civil liberties protections do you have there?
28. Percentage of Blondes
29. Process to get Business Visa
30. Life Expectancy
If anyone thinks of any other factor to consider, please let me know. Thanks!
Last edited by i_want_a_hot_white_chick on Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
As for working, if your work is still in the US but you want to spend a good deal of time abroad, it's not a bad idea to get a business visa for that country. You don't need a business visa for the usual visa-exempt countries like UK, EU, etc, however, for let's say Taiwan or Brazil, you just might.
The reason for it is that unless you're basically a rich guy (& in that case just tell 'em that you're a CEO/partner of a NYC hedge fund ), most people will want to see that you're gainfully employed so when you get stopped at passport checkpoint, you'll need to mention the stateside firm you work for and your occupation.
And then, for your reasons for being in the host country: attending meetings, going to conferences, and some vacation time. Thus, you're not seeking employment in the host country.
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