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Are some men running from being responsible?

Discuss and talk about any general topic.

Moderators: jamesbond, fschmidt

Postby S_Parc » Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:11 pm

Woman'sview wrote:S_Parc, if 5% of American women are good, then that is where you have to go.


Sorry, 5% is too low. For all practical purposes, it's a waste of time and energy.

Look at supply/demand curves on this one ... American women, on the whole, have priced themselves out of the market. Remember when Tulips in Holland costed $50K+ per bulb or Pets.com, hundreds of millions on the Nasdaq? In the end, neither investments paid off.

Woman'sview wrote: You could go overseas as some here are doing. But it is good to know where the good women are in America.


Remember, I've already been there. It's been ten years since I started traveling internationally.

The only reason why I'm on this board is that I'm moved by Winston's candor and wanted to help out some others, like he did.
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Postby Woman'sview » Thu Feb 03, 2011 5:40 am

What was your experience overseas, S_Parc? Maybe, you could share some of it here.
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Postby The_Hero_of_Men » Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:28 pm

Woman'sview wrote:
S_Parc wrote:
Woman'sview wrote:Yea, S_Parc, it is hard to find a marriage partner these days, if you have little in common. Attraction alone is not enough. Sharing the same faith is a great benefit if you practice it and the religion itself, nurtures a reverence for marriage. Then the community polices itself, and help protect the marriages, and the genders meet together in segregated groups to reinforce the belief system. There is still stigma and shame applied to individuals who fall from "grace" in this setting, so the marriage is sustained through thick and thin.

The woman sees the larger picture, and submissiveness is consider a virtue. The man submits to his religion, so he dares not cross a certain line either, so the marriage tend to last.

Religion can give you some protection in marriage, but it has to be a conservative religion, and you would have to both be serious adherents.


So far, everything you've stated is arguing about the boundary conditions. Yes, ~5% of American ex-pats are like the UK soccer hooligans, ~5% of anti-govt types burn American flags, and ~5% of "non-insular" American women are marriage material. That would be like me, advocating futures' trading, knowing perfectly well that 90-95% of newcomers lose their shirts after a year. But yes... 5% of that high honor society earns from $200K to $1 billion per year at it. Great, so let's all become daytraders, may the best ones live in the Hamptons!


S_Parc, if 5% of American women are good, then that is where you have to go. You could go overseas as some here are doing. But it is good to know where the good women are in America.



Guess what? Out of those 5%, half of those are Taken, and the other half would just not be interested. Why are you so intent on keeping this gentleman here where he is nothing more than surplus merchandise?
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Postby S_Parc » Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:14 pm

Woman'sview wrote:What was your experience overseas, S_Parc? Maybe, you could share some of it here.



Without getting into an essay on all the specifics, what I noticed, which was the primary difference between let's say being abroad vs being in Boston (or NYC or Philly), was the sense of integration between the genders in many aspects of life.

For example, around here, if I were to simply chat with a female co-worker about let's say the constellations in the southern sky, if she wasn't a former Astronomy major (or presently taking the course), it would look like I was feeding her a pick up line. Abroad, it simple isn't the case; it's two persons having a conversation. And in many cases, we both learn something of common interest. Also, in the US, a lot of people disguise the proto-dates by always having other people accompany them around. This is highly immature and is almost like being chaperoned in an open secret.

Abroad, one can go out on dates or one can simply hang out with a female and be friends. In the US, most outings involve guy friends and their girlfriends or co-ed cliques made of ex-co-workers, phony spiritual organizations, etc. How men and women in the northeast interact is very stultified and phony across the board. I've never experienced these types of association patterns abroad. I'd actually gone on hiking, shopping, boating, you-name-it ventures with women and it didn't feel like we were going out on a proto-date. But then, when I do go out on a date ... it was actually a date with hand holding, hugs, kisses, presents, etc. The primary difference is clarity and openness in these regards. And when groups of women meet up, it isn't the "Ally McBeal"/"Sex In The City" types of gatherings where they bicker that all men are dogs/pigs/sharks/etc and then prevent one of the ladies from dating a man in the nearby vicinity.
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Postby S_Parc » Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:19 pm

the_hero_of_time wrote:Guess what? Out of those 5%, half of those are Taken, and the other half would just not be interested. Why are you so intent on keeping this gentleman here where he is nothing more than surplus merchandise?


That's basically her M.O. and then watch ... she'll backtrack it in another post.

I think she's bouncing around between various emotional states and not able to keep a clear head or position on anything besides propping up herself or her gender and finding flaws in things that guys say around here.

BTW, I've actually had some success in daytrading but you know what, I'll never encourage it to the masses because I know that at least 80%+ will lose out. If she were me, she'd be telling everyone to put $25K to $100K into a brokerage/futures accounts and "GO FOR IT"!
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Postby S_Parc » Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:27 pm

S_Parc wrote: But then, when I do go out on a date ... it was actually a date with hand holding, hugs, kisses, presents, etc.


I'm going to pretend to be Woman'sView answering my own question: "But no, no, no, there are plenty of women in America with whom you can hold her hand, you just haven't found 'em yet"

S_parc: "Why should I waste my time with the ~5% rule and the HS chaperoning and Ally McBeal games"

Woman'sView: "Well, you just need to find the right town"

S_parc:: "I've been in eastern MA, central MA, western MA, southern NH, RI (& half a dozen states) ... can you provide a specific town or municipality or organization I should join?"

Woman'sView: "Well, you can't just expect someone to fall into your lap"

S_prac: "Strange, but I don't recall these types of conversations abroad, where in fact, people were falling into my lap as a course of day-to-day interactions a.k.a. the Walk of Life, not going out on a limb"

Then, Woman's View hits the repeat button on the dialogue. This is a complete, 'Waiting For Godot', waste of time absurdity play dialogue. She should just quit and find another forum to hang out in.
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Postby well-informed » Thu Feb 03, 2011 4:17 pm

If 5 % of american women were really good women they would be probably be engaged or married by now, since a man understands the value of a good wife.

So i guess the rest of men just have to keep looking for gold when it isn't there. right Woman's view, because it always is the man's fault.
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Postby S_Parc » Thu Feb 03, 2011 4:34 pm

well-informed wrote:If 5 % of american women were really good women they would be probably be engaged or married by now, since a man understands the value of a good wife.

So i guess the rest of men just have to keep looking for gold when it isn't there. right Woman's view, because it always is the man's fault.


Yes, I know a handful of these women and only one latest till the age of 25. Others were married by then and of course, they're not divorced today.

But don't engage Woman'sView anymore, she'll retrace another circular dialogue which eventually implies that men aren't doing enough. As far as I'm concerned, this absurdity play is over.
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Postby Woman'sview » Fri Feb 04, 2011 4:07 am

the_hero_of_time wrote:
Woman'sview wrote:
S_Parc wrote:
Woman'sview wrote:Yea, S_Parc, it is hard to find a marriage partner these days, if you have little in common. Attraction alone is not enough. Sharing the same faith is a great benefit if you practice it and the religion itself, nurtures a reverence for marriage. Then the community polices itself, and help protect the marriages, and the genders meet together in segregated groups to reinforce the belief system. There is still stigma and shame applied to individuals who fall from "grace" in this setting, so the marriage is sustained through thick and thin.

The woman sees the larger picture, and submissiveness is consider a virtue. The man submits to his religion, so he dares not cross a certain line either, so the marriage tend to last.

Religion can give you some protection in marriage, but it has to be a conservative religion, and you would have to both be serious adherents.


So far, everything you've stated is arguing about the boundary conditions. Yes, ~5% of American ex-pats are like the UK soccer hooligans, ~5% of anti-govt types burn American flags, and ~5% of "non-insular" American women are marriage material. That would be like me, advocating futures' trading, knowing perfectly well that 90-95% of newcomers lose their shirts after a year. But yes... 5% of that high honor society earns from $200K to $1 billion per year at it. Great, so let's all become daytraders, may the best ones live in the Hamptons!


S_Parc, if 5% of American women are good, then that is where you have to go. You could go overseas as some here are doing. But it is good to know where the good women are in America.



Guess what? Out of those 5%, half of those are Taken, and the other half would just not be interested. Why are you so intent on keeping this gentleman here where he is nothing more than surplus merchandise?


the_hero_of_time, I am not keeping anybody here. I am for going overseas for anyone. I am not stopping you. Best wishes.
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Postby Woman'sview » Fri Feb 04, 2011 4:15 am

S_Parc wrote:
Woman'sview wrote:What was your experience overseas, S_Parc? Maybe, you could share some of it here.



Without getting into an essay on all the specifics, what I noticed, which was the primary difference between let's say being abroad vs being in Boston (or NYC or Philly), was the sense of integration between the genders in many aspects of life.

For example, around here, if I were to simply chat with a female co-worker about let's say the constellations in the southern sky, if she wasn't a former Astronomy major (or presently taking the course), it would look like I was feeding her a pick up line. Abroad, it simple isn't the case; it's two persons having a conversation. And in many cases, we both learn something of common interest. Also, in the US, a lot of people disguise the proto-dates by always having other people accompany them around. This is highly immature and is almost like being chaperoned in an open secret.

Abroad, one can go out on dates or one can simply hang out with a female and be friends. In the US, most outings involve guy friends and their girlfriends or co-ed cliques made of ex-co-workers, phony spiritual organizations, etc. How men and women in the northeast interact is very stultified and phony across the board. I've never experienced these types of association patterns abroad. I'd actually gone on hiking, shopping, boating, you-name-it ventures with women and it didn't feel like we were going out on a proto-date. But then, when I do go out on a date ... it was actually a date with hand holding, hugs, kisses, presents, etc. The primary difference is clarity and openness in these regards. And when groups of women meet up, it isn't the "Ally McBeal"/"Sex In The City" types of gatherings where they bicker that all men are dogs/pigs/sharks/etc and then prevent one of the ladies from dating a man in the nearby vicinity.


I am glad that you have a positive experience overseas. Maybe that is your niche.

A lot of what you say above is true about American women.
I don't k now what you mean by the chaperoning though. If you are going on a date with an American woman, it's almost always exclusive from my viewpoint.
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Postby Grunt » Fri Feb 11, 2011 4:05 am

You are way to idiotic to be anything other than a cliche spewing hoax. Please go away.
How to deal with newbies that talk much but do little.

Pics or it didn't happen.

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Problem solved.
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Re: Are some men running from being responsible?

Postby Jackal » Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:25 pm

Woman'sview wrote:Some men will try to immigrate so they don't have to grow up,

Moving abroad and avoiding responsibility aren't always causally related. Men can choose to be responsible or irresponsible in their home countries just as easily as when they are abroad. For example, a lot of men stay in the US and live off videogames and never grow up. On the other hand, men will face new challenges when they go overseas and might just end up being MORE responsible and mature if they go overseas.

However, many of us DO want to be free of the expectations of the culture we grew up in, and this isn't irresponsibility; this is simply showing honesty and seeking freedom. It's not responsible for a man to stay in a culture he hates and to have a family there which deep down he doesn't even want.

Woman'sview wrote: and never look deeply within to see what part of their unhappiness is caused by themselves.

Sure, self-reflection and self-analysis can often be helpful; however, I don't think most of the men here lack any amount of self-reflection. On the contrary, I think most have probably over-scrutinized themselves over and over again in search of the reason why they don't get along with women in their home country.

Everybody can improve, but many men find it easier to improve themselves overseas where they aren't continually fighting against the flow of such a man-hating, negative culture.
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Re: Are some men running from being responsible?

Postby Woman'sview » Tue Feb 22, 2011 3:53 am

Jackal wrote:
Woman'sview wrote:Some men will try to immigrate so they don't have to grow up,

Moving abroad and avoiding responsibility aren't always causally related. Men can choose to be responsible or irresponsible in their home countries just as easily as when they are abroad. For example, a lot of men stay in the US and live off videogames and never grow up. On the other hand, men will face new challenges when they go overseas and might just end up being MORE responsible and mature if they go overseas.

However, many of us DO want to be free of the expectations of the culture we grew up in, and this isn't irresponsibility; this is simply showing honesty and seeking freedom. It's not responsible for a man to stay in a culture he hates and to have a family there which deep down he doesn't even want.

Woman'sview wrote: and never look deeply within to see what part of their unhappiness is caused by themselves.

Sure, self-reflection and self-analysis can often be helpful; however, I don't think most of the men here lack any amount of self-reflection. On the contrary, I think most have probably over-scrutinized themselves over and over again in search of the reason why they don't get along with women in their home country.

Everybody can improve, but many men find it easier to improve themselves overseas where they aren't continually fighting against the flow of such a man-hating, negative culture.


Jackal, this post is not addressed to the sincere, responsible guys going overseas to find true love. For these I really wish them success in their endeavor. It is addressed to guys who are going overseas for the wrong reasons, to enjoy multiple women at the same time with no intention of settling down with just one, or just going to play the field. Some men are going only for pleasure. While some have tried every opportunity to date women here without success, some men may be going to show how "superior" they are to women, and to find ones to cater to them. But the guys here who are respectful and sincere and go with the intention of genuine romance with the aim of marriage, I did not write this for them.
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What are the qualities of a responsible man?

Postby Woman'sview » Tue Feb 22, 2011 4:31 am

I am going to write here what I think is the qualities of a responsible man:

1. He has worthy goals that will make his family proud, and not ashamed.

2. He strives to improve himself, and do not get stuck in vices.

3. He respects women and do not take advantage of her vulnerabilities.

4. He strives to support his wife and children to the best of his abilities.

5. He is fair and just.

6. He admits error.

7. He makes his country proud.

8. He realizes he can learn a lot from the natives in a new country he immigrates to.

9. He doesn't sexually abuse women, especially vulnerable ones.

10. He is strong, but kind and humble.

11. He tries to differentiate when he is the problem and when the society that he is
born in is the problem.

12. He doesn't blame all women for his problems, or put blame on all members of a
certain group. He is willing to know that many or most women may be a certain way in America, but not all are that way.

13. He remembers to be kind to the opposite sex, because his mother is a woman and he may have daughters, and wants men to treat them with respect and kindness.

14. He does his best with what he was given, and tries not to envy another man's happiness.
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Re: What are the qualities of a responsible man?

Postby Jackal » Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:41 pm

Woman'sview wrote:I am going to write here what I think is the qualities of a responsible man:

7. He makes his country proud.

Hmm...which country do you mean? His home country, which he left? Or the foreign country he's living in?

If you mean the country he came from, in most of our cases here, America, then I have to disagree.

An American can be very responsible without making America proud. Most Americans dislike or at least distrust foreign countries and don't like the idea of any American voluntarily leaving the US unless he does so to kill the enemies of the US.

If an American man is happy dating a foreign woman and also makes her happy, I think that that's enough to be proud of right there, no matter what the American government or his other fellow Americans think about it.

If you meant that the man should make the country he immigrated to proud, then I agree that that would be nice, but I don't think that that's a prerequisite for being responsible. I'm sure there are many responsible men living in countries where the government isn't at all aware of them.
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