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This is a rather serious question and I would appreciate thoughtful input. Are friendships with Americans real and long-lasting, or simply short and superficial?
bitchy women might be all over the anglosphere, but the topic which you brought up is where america more or less stands alone
i think in other parts of the world friendship really means something, especially among men. it's like a brother.
there are exceptions but generally friends aren't worth crap here. well actually some are lucky loyal friends, but because of the cultural, homophobia and all that, it seems very simplistic. say if a guy started crying, in a sane place the friend would be empathetic. but here they'd just get uncomfortable and pretend it never happened.
you know all these questions on this forum really made me realize how f***ed up america is. from A to Z it's a total disaster, and the values are spreading out like a virus.
all of this is why most of the friends i've had have been immigrants. asians, latinos, even african students. i didn't plan it like that. for whatever reason very few have been americans. although that is also partically because i've lived in areas with heavy immigrant base. if i lived in oregon i'd have no choice but to be friends with some simpletons.
You can keep your friendships with Americans as long as you remain convenient to their ambitions and don't shed any kind of unflattering light on them through your actions or general persona. Many topics of conversation, of course, will remain taboo, starting with any kind of honest assessment of American culture. And you must keep in mind that American friendships are fundamentally limited by the fact that, in the deepest reaches of their hearts, Americans see themselves as in competition with everyone else.
There's something to be remembered here, in a group setting, everything's Honky Dory, even though peoples' families are ill, nearing bankruptcy, or whatever.
Thus, issues/problems need to be in tightly contained communication blurbs, not like the endless dialogues you see here on the forum.
Also, you must have references from popular movies, songs, ready at all times. That's a big part of the quid pro quo in Americana.
I recommend getting a psychologist or hypnotist to discuss your real problems. On the average, no one else wants to hear 'em & I'm including religious leader types who're also pushing a group control agenda.
Isn't that the truth? It's the same way here in Canada. People are very insular and closed off.
I would say that in the US, good friends are very hard to find and keep. My best friend of 10 years basically turned his back on me and betrayed me at one point, and I've never spoken to him since. To me, a friendship is a true friendship, as a promise is a promise, and a man's word is his honor. We've lost most of that in the US, and now it's dog-eat-dog and every man for himself. We've lost the tribal spirit and respect for our fellow man. I've expressed this sentiment openly, and people just laugh at me and tell me I'm "old fashioned". Sure....(I'm 41).
I think those kind of friendships are still possible in the US, but very rare, since we are so mobile and busy with our own lives and self-absorption.
If I may be so bold, the fact that many of us on here are in some senses "outsiders" and have a common framework of thinking and viewing the world, I would venture a guess that I personally could become very good friends with many people on here, based on what I read in the comments. As always, the catch is: we would need to know each other personally and spend time together. I assume others would feel the same way. Birds of a feather.....
RedDog - in no way you are old-fashioned. I know a really stupid (but model-gorgeous) blonde Russian immigrant chick, who absorbed all of these terrible "independent, bitchy, errogant, selfish, egoistic" behavior. She is completely U.S.-minded now, in some ways even much worse than many American girls. She dates a complete Russian douchebag, who does weed and drinks until puking. He literally always tells her that she is a piece of crap, retarded and dumb as f*ck. She would cry, but jump back on him again. Yeah, I know you are thinking you've seen it before, right? Yea - just like any other American girl behavior!
So that retarded blonde was telling me that I am "old-fashioned" for these exact thoughts - friendship, being responsible and my word being solid as a rock etc. (But I am not even 30 yet).
I am not seeing any "real" friendships in the U.S. and what is even more shocking - no one even knows what "real" friendship means! I had a very bad depression when I moved to the U.S. for that exact reason - people are cold and closed off. I thought it is because I am an immigrant, it took me a while to figure out that I am totally fine, it is in the society.
^ this is why it's dangerous when women attain power. women are easily manipulated, changed, and they are brutally pragmatic, meaning when it goes to shit it's the men who are given the uphill battle of pulling everyone out of the cesspool while the ungrateful egotistic fools scream bloody murder while having learned absolutely nothing on how to protect themselves from manipulation in the future.
men are stubborn, suspicious of change, and more likely to be idealistic/philosophical. this is the reason marxist techniques targeted man, but could not attack him directly. a proxy war on everything he holds dear like women and children was waged. alan watt discussed this, of course i already knew this just seeing the changes in the course of my life, and i'm only in my 20s.
Typical american-immigrant female bimbo mentality:
you: "America is f***ed up."
her: "America is the richest and therefore best nation on earth." (economy along with nationalism is a barrier the average immigrant can't overcome/figure out)
you: "There's no such thing as best. Am i having a conversation with a child?"
her: "Fine go Zimbabwe then, I saw on the news they don't have food to eat." (instead of a sensible conversation they're always making extreme comparisions)
you: "I'm not complaining about America, I'm complaining about dehumanization in society that is unnecessary and can be reverted."
her: "You think too much."
watch this. 2 faced american f***s! people call us old fashioned? which means this is progression?
This is close to my story. My best friend of 30 years basically turned his back on me and betrayed me at one point, and I've never spoken to him since. Of the 3 best American men that I knew, one went crazy, one killed himself, and one is prison. Good men don't last long in American culture. So I set up the CoAlpha Brotherhood as a place where decent men can get together. I realize that this forum serves a similar funtion. Most guys here are traveling and having fun, and that's fine. But if at some point you want to settle down, you might want to consider the CoAlpha Brotherhood.
Honestly, truly long lasting, trusting friendships are really really hard to come by.
In no way is this limited to just America. The fact is, people are people.
Physical distance can and does destroy friendships just as easily as relationships with the opposite sex. People do change when they go through the different stages of life. Priorities change.
Some of you seem to believe that being raised in another country means friendships will be more 'bondful'. That's utter BS.
I've seen enough different cultures to know that a close friend can easily stab you in the back with the right provocation or reason. There are countries where it's way worse than in America.
There are very few exceptions to this. Your best bud may be your closest confidante, etc, etc... BUT say he's a 30 year old virgin and desperate or just a horndog. Your ex-gf that you just broke up with starts coming onto him. You think he'd bang her? Possibly start going out with her? You just never F'ing know.
Now...as for my own friends, there was a time in my life i would have trusted any of a close circle of friends with my life. They would have done likewise. We were that tight. Nowadays, i know better. Why? Because we have all changed as we've aged.
Are they still very good friends? Some of them are. For others, we've drifted apart. Are they "REAL" friends. Yes they are. It is possible to make friends in the states. It really isn't as unusual as some people make it out to be. It takes alot of time to build a real friendship though. The older we get, it seems we become more "jaded". It becomes more and more difficult to trust.
My take on the friendship bit is that the older we get, the more difficult it is
to build new friendships. Every single one of my close friends go back at least 15 years. You meet new people you might call friends but 'real'
friends are harder to find as you get older. There are reasons for that but i won't get into them right now.
I agree that making "real" friends is hard in any country, but finding fun people to hang out takes 1-2 days in any large East European/Russian city. Those fun people you know could really become your friends in a matter of 2-3 weeks easily. Those people you met just once will call you like they know you for a few years. They will invite you to come somewhere with them not judging too much if you a loser or not, like Americans do. If you are decent looking, have normal sense of humor - you are in with most of the European crowds. Not so with Americans and you guys know it really well.
So yeah, very close friends are tough to find, but integration into the society and finding buddies to hang out or girlfriend (or many of them) can be accomplished within a few days, when in the U.S. it may take a few years!
I have heard other guys who have lived in eastern Europe and Russia say the same thing. They told me how making friends and being invited to parties was a normal occurence for them (in eastern European countries and Russia). Once they moved to the US, all that changed and they found out making friends in the US was difficult.
There is a cliquishness in the US that doesnt't exist in most countries (thank God). Since Americans are so "cliquish" it's hard to break into established groups of friends. In the US you really need to make your friends early in life (like in grade school, high school and college). Making friends in America is almost as hard as trying to meet women in America!
"When I think about the idea of getting involved with an American woman, I don't know if I should laugh .............. or vomit!"
"Trying to meet women in America is like trying to decipher Egyptian hieroglyphics."
I strongly disagree. It is NOT exactly the same in the US as in other countries. If it were, why would you be here? It is not utter BS that people bond easier in other countries. Who are you to judge other people's friendships or relationships? THEY are the ones in the position to judge. So if they say that they bonded better with people in other countries, then it's true for them at least (even if it's not true for you).
And many here claim just that. What country are you referring to when you say that it is worse than in America? What country is more cliquish than in America?
I am not saying that it is easy to make long lasting friends through thick and thin who will always be there for you. I'm saying that it's easier to find hang out friends and socialize with people in other countries. Whether they are your "real friends" or not, at least communicating with them is a much more natural process and feels much more down to earth and normal/natural. It's not as awkward as it is in California, that's for sure. That's what I'm talking about, and the primary demonstratable difference.
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"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World
Been friends with my boy Doug since high school (1988). We don't talk that often, but we still talk to each other. At different points in our lives. He's trying to survive the last years of a broken marriage, basically waiting for the kids to grow old enough to handle him exiting.
My boy Stacy is still my friend is flaky and that's just understood (1992).
So yes some friendships are long lasting. If your talking about women I have no idea I have cut off most women after its been established there's no potential for relationships.